Don't throw snowballs at each other if...
 

On Thu, 05 Feb 2015 20:07:43 -0500, Someone Else wrote:

Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/4/15 9:55 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 04 Feb 2015 19:33:28 -0500, Someone Else
wrote:

Where do you find steel bullets?

The Russians and Chinese load "bimetal" ammo that is somewhat magnetic
but it is not really "steel". I tore down a "Brown Bear" 9mm a week or
so ago and the jacket is not really that hard. I also posted a link to
a 10,000 round test where they showed that it cuts barrel life in half
(5000 rounds vs 10,000 in the .223s they tested). When they factored
in the price of a barrel against the savings on ammo, it was a wash. I
imagine the effect is less in a slower round.

If you trade in guns as fast as Harry does, I doubt he would ever
notice.



Those who are interested in the composition of bullets might find this
interesting:

http://www.uspsa.org/front-sight-mag...BiMetal-Ammo-8


It's not just the cost of the barrel, by the way. A top quality HBAR
is at least $350 and in my case, I'd also have to buy a low-pro gas
block and probably have to have the barrel dimpled to hold the gas
block set screws, since my current gas block is more properly pinned
through the bottom wall of the barrel. That's another $50. Then there
is the cost of getting a qualified gunsmith to headspace the barrel.
That's another $50 or more. By the time you've finished, you've spent
$500 for a quality replacement barrel. The steel cased ammo is a
nickel a round less than the brass ammo. I'll pass on that "savings"
in order not to have to deal with replacing a barrel long before its
time. Oh, and I can shoot the brass ammo on any range where rifles are
welcomed.


You are confusing casings and bullets.

Yup.
--

Guns don't cause problems. The behavior
of certain gun owners causes problems.

Don't throw snowballs at each other if...
 

On Thu, 05 Feb 2015 23:50:17 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 05 Feb 2015 23:28:01 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Thu, 05 Feb 2015 13:15:28 -0500, wrote:

If you are really that interested in precision shooting you should be
shooting match grade ammo.

===

Exactly. I was talking to one of my shooting buddys yesterday who
competes with his custom 223 at 300 yards. He uses match grade ammo
of course but he's noticed that the performance changes throughout the
day as temperatures warm up. As a result he has started keeping his
unfired ammo in a styrofoam cooler with a bit of ice in it to maintain
a constant temp.

I would worry more about the barrel temperature

===

Once you fire a shot or two the barrel comes up to a fairly uniform
and constant temperature. Typically they allow some sighting shots
before the actual competition begins.

The effect he was noticing was directly related to the ammo and
depended on things like whether it was stored in the sun or in the
shade, things like that.

Anyone who ever fired a machine gun understands the barrel will
continue to warm up as you shoot unless you are shooting at a fairly
slow rate of fire.

I've never heard of machine gun competition shooting.
--

Guns don't cause problems. The behavior
of certain gun owners causes problems.

Don't throw snowballs at each other if...
 

On 2/6/15 10:22 AM, Mucho Loco wrote:
On Thu, 05 Feb 2015 20:07:43 -0500, Someone Else wrote:

Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/4/15 9:55 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 04 Feb 2015 19:33:28 -0500, Someone Else
wrote:

Where do you find steel bullets?

The Russians and Chinese load "bimetal" ammo that is somewhat magnetic
but it is not really "steel". I tore down a "Brown Bear" 9mm a week or
so ago and the jacket is not really that hard. I also posted a link to
a 10,000 round test where they showed that it cuts barrel life in half
(5000 rounds vs 10,000 in the .223s they tested). When they factored
in the price of a barrel against the savings on ammo, it was a wash. I
imagine the effect is less in a slower round.

If you trade in guns as fast as Harry does, I doubt he would ever
notice.



Those who are interested in the composition of bullets might find this
interesting:

http://www.uspsa.org/front-sight-mag...BiMetal-Ammo-8


It's not just the cost of the barrel, by the way. A top quality HBAR
is at least $350 and in my case, I'd also have to buy a low-pro gas
block and probably have to have the barrel dimpled to hold the gas
block set screws, since my current gas block is more properly pinned
through the bottom wall of the barrel. That's another $50. Then there
is the cost of getting a qualified gunsmith to headspace the barrel.
That's another $50 or more. By the time you've finished, you've spent
$500 for a quality replacement barrel. The steel cased ammo is a
nickel a round less than the brass ammo. I'll pass on that "savings"
in order not to have to deal with replacing a barrel long before its
time. Oh, and I can shoot the brass ammo on any range where rifles are
welcomed.


You are confusing casings and bullets.

Yup.


No, I am not. I am referring to the ferrous metal in the bullets, not
the shell casing. I wouldn't use steel shell casings in a semi auto,
either but obviously they'd present no problem in a revolver.

--
Proud to be a Liberal.

Don't throw snowballs at each other if...
 

On 2/6/15 10:54 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 06 Feb 2015 10:27:04 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 2/6/15 10:22 AM, Mucho Loco wrote:
On Thu, 05 Feb 2015 20:07:43 -0500, Someone Else wrote:

Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/4/15 9:55 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 04 Feb 2015 19:33:28 -0500, Someone Else
wrote:

Where do you find steel bullets?

The Russians and Chinese load "bimetal" ammo that is somewhat magnetic
but it is not really "steel". I tore down a "Brown Bear" 9mm a week or
so ago and the jacket is not really that hard. I also posted a link to
a 10,000 round test where they showed that it cuts barrel life in half
(5000 rounds vs 10,000 in the .223s they tested). When they factored
in the price of a barrel against the savings on ammo, it was a wash. I
imagine the effect is less in a slower round.

If you trade in guns as fast as Harry does, I doubt he would ever
notice.



Those who are interested in the composition of bullets might find this
interesting:

http://www.uspsa.org/front-sight-mag...BiMetal-Ammo-8


It's not just the cost of the barrel, by the way. A top quality HBAR
is at least $350 and in my case, I'd also have to buy a low-pro gas
block and probably have to have the barrel dimpled to hold the gas
block set screws, since my current gas block is more properly pinned
through the bottom wall of the barrel. That's another $50. Then there
is the cost of getting a qualified gunsmith to headspace the barrel.
That's another $50 or more. By the time you've finished, you've spent
$500 for a quality replacement barrel. The steel cased ammo is a
nickel a round less than the brass ammo. I'll pass on that "savings"
in order not to have to deal with replacing a barrel long before its
time. Oh, and I can shoot the brass ammo on any range where rifles are
welcomed.


You are confusing casings and bullets.

Yup.


No, I am not. I am referring to the ferrous metal in the bullets, not
the shell casing. I wouldn't use steel shell casings in a semi auto,
either but obviously they'd present no problem in a revolver.

I see guys at our range shooting Russian ammo in their AKs all the
time but maybe the rifle is just made for it.



Or maybe AK barrels are cheaper or less of a pain in the ass to replace.

I was just offered a "real deal" on a new S&W 686 revolver, stainless,
4" barrel, in .357MAG/.38SPECIAL. In other words, the same caliber of
my Ruger, but with a shorter barrel.

What to do, what to do?



--
Proud to be a Liberal.

Don't throw snowballs at each other if...
 

On 2/6/2015 10:59 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/6/15 10:54 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 06 Feb 2015 10:27:04 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 2/6/15 10:22 AM, Mucho Loco wrote:
On Thu, 05 Feb 2015 20:07:43 -0500, Someone Else
wrote:

Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/4/15 9:55 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 04 Feb 2015 19:33:28 -0500, Someone Else
wrote:

Where do you find steel bullets?

The Russians and Chinese load "bimetal" ammo that is somewhat
magnetic
but it is not really "steel". I tore down a "Brown Bear" 9mm a
week or
so ago and the jacket is not really that hard. I also posted a
link to
a 10,000 round test where they showed that it cuts barrel life in
half
(5000 rounds vs 10,000 in the .223s they tested). When they factored
in the price of a barrel against the savings on ammo, it was a
wash. I
imagine the effect is less in a slower round.

If you trade in guns as fast as Harry does, I doubt he would ever
notice.



Those who are interested in the composition of bullets might find
this
interesting:

http://www.uspsa.org/front-sight-mag...BiMetal-Ammo-8



It's not just the cost of the barrel, by the way. A top quality HBAR
is at least $350 and in my case, I'd also have to buy a low-pro gas
block and probably have to have the barrel dimpled to hold the gas
block set screws, since my current gas block is more properly pinned
through the bottom wall of the barrel. That's another $50. Then there
is the cost of getting a qualified gunsmith to headspace the barrel.
That's another $50 or more. By the time you've finished, you've spent
$500 for a quality replacement barrel. The steel cased ammo is a
nickel a round less than the brass ammo. I'll pass on that "savings"
in order not to have to deal with replacing a barrel long before its
time. Oh, and I can shoot the brass ammo on any range where rifles
are
welcomed.


You are confusing casings and bullets.

Yup.


No, I am not. I am referring to the ferrous metal in the bullets, not
the shell casing. I wouldn't use steel shell casings in a semi auto,
either but obviously they'd present no problem in a revolver.

I see guys at our range shooting Russian ammo in their AKs all the
time but maybe the rifle is just made for it.



Or maybe AK barrels are cheaper or less of a pain in the ass to replace.

I was just offered a "real deal" on a new S&W 686 revolver, stainless,
4" barrel, in .357MAG/.38SPECIAL. In other words, the same caliber of
my Ruger, but with a shorter barrel.

What to do, what to do?


I had a S&W 627 Performance Center revolver for a while. 8 round
cylinder and 5" barrel. Loved it but rarely used it. Ended up
selling it to a guy at the gun club who "had" to have it. I've posted
a video before of me shooting it at the range with alternating 357
magnum and .38 special rounds. Here's the link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF00rLj8AEY

Don't throw snowballs at each other if...
 

On Fri, 06 Feb 2015 10:27:04 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 2/6/15 10:22 AM, Mucho Loco wrote:
On Thu, 05 Feb 2015 20:07:43 -0500, Someone Else wrote:

Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/4/15 9:55 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 04 Feb 2015 19:33:28 -0500, Someone Else
wrote:

Where do you find steel bullets?

The Russians and Chinese load "bimetal" ammo that is somewhat magnetic
but it is not really "steel". I tore down a "Brown Bear" 9mm a week or
so ago and the jacket is not really that hard. I also posted a link to
a 10,000 round test where they showed that it cuts barrel life in half
(5000 rounds vs 10,000 in the .223s they tested). When they factored
in the price of a barrel against the savings on ammo, it was a wash. I
imagine the effect is less in a slower round.

If you trade in guns as fast as Harry does, I doubt he would ever
notice.



Those who are interested in the composition of bullets might find this
interesting:

http://www.uspsa.org/front-sight-mag...BiMetal-Ammo-8


It's not just the cost of the barrel, by the way. A top quality HBAR
is at least $350 and in my case, I'd also have to buy a low-pro gas
block and probably have to have the barrel dimpled to hold the gas
block set screws, since my current gas block is more properly pinned
through the bottom wall of the barrel. That's another $50. Then there
is the cost of getting a qualified gunsmith to headspace the barrel.
That's another $50 or more. By the time you've finished, you've spent
$500 for a quality replacement barrel. The steel cased ammo is a
nickel a round less than the brass ammo. I'll pass on that "savings"
in order not to have to deal with replacing a barrel long before its
time. Oh, and I can shoot the brass ammo on any range where rifles are
welcomed.


You are confusing casings and bullets.

Yup.


No, I am not. I am referring to the ferrous metal in the bullets, not
the shell casing. I wouldn't use steel shell casings in a semi auto,
either but obviously they'd present no problem in a revolver.

When you say, "The steel cased ammo is a nickel a round less than the brass ammo,"
one would think you're talking about the casing, not the bullet.

I'm finding the steel bullet ammo to cost from about 1/2 to 1/3 the cost of the
non-steel bullets.
--

Guns don't cause problems. The behavior
of certain gun owners causes problems.

Don't throw snowballs at each other if...
 

On 2/6/15 11:10 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/6/2015 10:59 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/6/15 10:54 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 06 Feb 2015 10:27:04 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 2/6/15 10:22 AM, Mucho Loco wrote:
On Thu, 05 Feb 2015 20:07:43 -0500, Someone Else
wrote:

Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/4/15 9:55 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 04 Feb 2015 19:33:28 -0500, Someone Else
wrote:

Where do you find steel bullets?

The Russians and Chinese load "bimetal" ammo that is somewhat
magnetic
but it is not really "steel". I tore down a "Brown Bear" 9mm a
week or
so ago and the jacket is not really that hard. I also posted a
link to
a 10,000 round test where they showed that it cuts barrel life in
half
(5000 rounds vs 10,000 in the .223s they tested). When they
factored
in the price of a barrel against the savings on ammo, it was a
wash. I
imagine the effect is less in a slower round.

If you trade in guns as fast as Harry does, I doubt he would ever
notice.



Those who are interested in the composition of bullets might find
this
interesting:

http://www.uspsa.org/front-sight-mag...BiMetal-Ammo-8




It's not just the cost of the barrel, by the way. A top quality HBAR
is at least $350 and in my case, I'd also have to buy a low-pro gas
block and probably have to have the barrel dimpled to hold the gas
block set screws, since my current gas block is more properly pinned
through the bottom wall of the barrel. That's another $50. Then
there
is the cost of getting a qualified gunsmith to headspace the barrel.
That's another $50 or more. By the time you've finished, you've
spent
$500 for a quality replacement barrel. The steel cased ammo is a
nickel a round less than the brass ammo. I'll pass on that
"savings"
in order not to have to deal with replacing a barrel long before its
time. Oh, and I can shoot the brass ammo on any range where rifles
are
welcomed.


You are confusing casings and bullets.

Yup.


No, I am not. I am referring to the ferrous metal in the bullets, not
the shell casing. I wouldn't use steel shell casings in a semi auto,
either but obviously they'd present no problem in a revolver.

I see guys at our range shooting Russian ammo in their AKs all the
time but maybe the rifle is just made for it.



Or maybe AK barrels are cheaper or less of a pain in the ass to replace.

I was just offered a "real deal" on a new S&W 686 revolver, stainless,
4" barrel, in .357MAG/.38SPECIAL. In other words, the same caliber of
my Ruger, but with a shorter barrel.

What to do, what to do?


I had a S&W 627 Performance Center revolver for a while. 8 round
cylinder and 5" barrel. Loved it but rarely used it. Ended up
selling it to a guy at the gun club who "had" to have it. I've posted
a video before of me shooting it at the range with alternating 357
magnum and .38 special rounds. Here's the link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF00rLj8AEY




Cool vid.

I really don't know what to do. I don't want or need two .357 MAG
revolvers... I guess I could buy the S&W and sell the Ruger or sell the
S&W...

The Ruger is one hell of a shooter.

--
Proud to be a Liberal.

Don't throw snowballs at each other if...
 

On 2/6/15 11:24 AM, Mucho Loco wrote:
On Fri, 06 Feb 2015 10:27:04 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 2/6/15 10:22 AM, Mucho Loco wrote:
On Thu, 05 Feb 2015 20:07:43 -0500, Someone Else wrote:

Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/4/15 9:55 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 04 Feb 2015 19:33:28 -0500, Someone Else
wrote:

Where do you find steel bullets?

The Russians and Chinese load "bimetal" ammo that is somewhat magnetic
but it is not really "steel". I tore down a "Brown Bear" 9mm a week or
so ago and the jacket is not really that hard. I also posted a link to
a 10,000 round test where they showed that it cuts barrel life in half
(5000 rounds vs 10,000 in the .223s they tested). When they factored
in the price of a barrel against the savings on ammo, it was a wash. I
imagine the effect is less in a slower round.

If you trade in guns as fast as Harry does, I doubt he would ever
notice.



Those who are interested in the composition of bullets might find this
interesting:

http://www.uspsa.org/front-sight-mag...BiMetal-Ammo-8


It's not just the cost of the barrel, by the way. A top quality HBAR
is at least $350 and in my case, I'd also have to buy a low-pro gas
block and probably have to have the barrel dimpled to hold the gas
block set screws, since my current gas block is more properly pinned
through the bottom wall of the barrel. That's another $50. Then there
is the cost of getting a qualified gunsmith to headspace the barrel.
That's another $50 or more. By the time you've finished, you've spent
$500 for a quality replacement barrel. The steel cased ammo is a
nickel a round less than the brass ammo. I'll pass on that "savings"
in order not to have to deal with replacing a barrel long before its
time. Oh, and I can shoot the brass ammo on any range where rifles are
welcomed.


You are confusing casings and bullets.

Yup.


No, I am not. I am referring to the ferrous metal in the bullets, not
the shell casing. I wouldn't use steel shell casings in a semi auto,
either but obviously they'd present no problem in a revolver.

When you say, "The steel cased ammo is a nickel a round less than the brass ammo,"
one would think you're talking about the casing, not the bullet.

I'm finding the steel bullet ammo to cost from about 1/2 to 1/3 the cost of the
non-steel bullets.



In .223 mail order, the brass bullet and shell casing ammo runs .27
cents to .31 for "ordinary" stuff, 55 grain bullets. The steel cased,
bimetal bullet stuff is .22 a round.

I don't have any info on the stuff you shoot out of that shapely Mosin.


--
Proud to be a Liberal.

Don't throw snowballs at each other if...
 

On Fri, 06 Feb 2015 10:54:19 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 06 Feb 2015 10:27:04 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 2/6/15 10:22 AM, Mucho Loco wrote:
On Thu, 05 Feb 2015 20:07:43 -0500, Someone Else wrote:

Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/4/15 9:55 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 04 Feb 2015 19:33:28 -0500, Someone Else
wrote:

Where do you find steel bullets?

The Russians and Chinese load "bimetal" ammo that is somewhat magnetic
but it is not really "steel". I tore down a "Brown Bear" 9mm a week or
so ago and the jacket is not really that hard. I also posted a link to
a 10,000 round test where they showed that it cuts barrel life in half
(5000 rounds vs 10,000 in the .223s they tested). When they factored
in the price of a barrel against the savings on ammo, it was a wash. I
imagine the effect is less in a slower round.

If you trade in guns as fast as Harry does, I doubt he would ever
notice.



Those who are interested in the composition of bullets might find this
interesting:

http://www.uspsa.org/front-sight-mag...BiMetal-Ammo-8


It's not just the cost of the barrel, by the way. A top quality HBAR
is at least $350 and in my case, I'd also have to buy a low-pro gas
block and probably have to have the barrel dimpled to hold the gas
block set screws, since my current gas block is more properly pinned
through the bottom wall of the barrel. That's another $50. Then there
is the cost of getting a qualified gunsmith to headspace the barrel.
That's another $50 or more. By the time you've finished, you've spent
$500 for a quality replacement barrel. The steel cased ammo is a
nickel a round less than the brass ammo. I'll pass on that "savings"
in order not to have to deal with replacing a barrel long before its
time. Oh, and I can shoot the brass ammo on any range where rifles are
welcomed.


You are confusing casings and bullets.

Yup.


No, I am not. I am referring to the ferrous metal in the bullets, not
the shell casing. I wouldn't use steel shell casings in a semi auto,
either but obviously they'd present no problem in a revolver.

I see guys at our range shooting Russian ammo in their AKs all the
time but maybe the rifle is just made for it.

Outdoor? I'd expect they just clean their bores very well after they shoot. The cheap
stuff is corrosive, and the ads say so right up front.

"Copper washed steel case, Berdan-primed, non-reloadable, ***corrosive***, 147 Grain,
Russian 1977 production. 188 headstamp, steel core full metal jacket bullet. - See
more at:
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/produ....1oDkgTRa.dpuf

[My asterisks added.]
--

Guns don't cause problems. The behavior
of certain gun owners causes problems.

Don't throw snowballs at each other if...
 

On 2/6/15 11:33 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 06 Feb 2015 10:59:29 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:



I was just offered a "real deal" on a new S&W 686 revolver, stainless,
4" barrel, in .357MAG/.38SPECIAL. In other words, the same caliber of
my Ruger, but with a shorter barrel.

What to do, what to do?

If it is a great deal, buy it. You have no problem selling it later
and you might even make a buck.


Probably, but I really don't want two .357 revolvers. You should buy my
Ruger and have yourself a "manly" modern old tech firearm. Hell, I'll
even toss in some ammo, shipped separately. :)



--
Proud to be a Liberal.