And it is a Federal Requirement to placard the dispensing pump. It is
illegal to burn E15 in boats!

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/ethanol.shtml



Twenty years from now you will be more disppointed
by the things that you didn't do than by the ones
you did do.

So, throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor.
Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.
- Mark Twain


1987 23' Grady-White Gulfstream
2005 20' Angler CC
2004 17' G3 CC 1756

Out of Shallotte, NC

wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 20:51:17 -0500, Gene Kearns
wrote:


And it is a Federal Requirement to placard the dispensing pump. It is
illegal to burn E15 in boats!

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/ethanol.shtml



Ethanol is the biggest scam since the chlorophyll craze in the 50s.
The corn farmers want corn in everything and they figured out how to
get it in your car.

A real ecologist would point out it is worse than gasoline on several
counts, not to mention the depletion of the Ogalalla aquifer.
When that water is gone, we will forget there was ever an oil
"crisis".

If alcohol was such a good thing, we would drop tariffs on imported cane
sugar and it's products. And the poor could afford to eat corn products.
Been riots in Mexico over the cost of corn tortillas. Due to the oil
required to grow corn and refine it, there is less than a 5% energy gain.
9 times as much alcohol from equal acreage of sugar cane to corn.

On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 21:19:02 -0500, wrote:

I would agree (aside from corn farmers) there is nothing good about
ethanol. One of my biggest concerns is labeling.

In NC, the General Assembly, unable to ban labeling, defunded
enforcement. So, I wonder if consumers will actually know what they
are pouring into their tank.... unless the Feds are doing the
enforcement.



On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 20:51:17 -0500, Gene Kearns
wrote:


And it is a Federal Requirement to placard the dispensing pump. It is
illegal to burn E15 in boats!

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/ethanol.shtml



Ethanol is the biggest scam since the chlorophyll craze in the 50s.
The corn farmers want corn in everything and they figured out how to
get it in your car.

A real ecologist would point out it is worse than gasoline on several
counts, not to mention the depletion of the Ogalalla aquifer.
When that water is gone, we will forget there was ever an oil
"crisis".



Twenty years from now you will be more disppointed
by the things that you didn't do than by the ones
you did do.

So, throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor.
Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.
- Mark Twain


1987 23' Grady-White Gulfstream
2005 20' Angler CC
2004 17' G3 CC 1756

Out of Shallotte, NC

On 1/27/2015 7:52 AM, Gene Kearns wrote:

On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 21:19:02 -0500, wrote:

I would agree (aside from corn farmers) there is nothing good about
ethanol. One of my biggest concerns is labeling.

In NC, the General Assembly, unable to ban labeling, defunded
enforcement. So, I wonder if consumers will actually know what they
are pouring into their tank.... unless the Feds are doing the
enforcement.



On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 20:51:17 -0500, Gene Kearns
wrote:


And it is a Federal Requirement to placard the dispensing pump. It is
illegal to burn E15 in boats!

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/ethanol.shtml



Ethanol is the biggest scam since the chlorophyll craze in the 50s.
The corn farmers want corn in everything and they figured out how to
get it in your car.

A real ecologist would point out it is worse than gasoline on several
counts, not to mention the depletion of the Ogalalla aquifer.
When that water is gone, we will forget there was ever an oil
"crisis".



Twenty years from now you will be more disppointed
by the things that you didn't do than by the ones
you did do.

So, throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor.
Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.
- Mark Twain


1987 23' Grady-White Gulfstream
2005 20' Angler CC
2004 17' G3 CC 1756

Out of Shallotte, NC



Gene, what would replace the oxygenator in gasoline? That was the
original purpose of ethanol ... as a replacement for MBTE which was
banned.

Maybe you are of the school that engines today do not need an
oxygenator in gasoline?

On Tue, 27 Jan 2015 09:19:11 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/27/2015 7:52 AM, Gene Kearns wrote:

On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 21:19:02 -0500, wrote:

I would agree (aside from corn farmers) there is nothing good about
ethanol. One of my biggest concerns is labeling.

In NC, the General Assembly, unable to ban labeling, defunded
enforcement. So, I wonder if consumers will actually know what they
are pouring into their tank.... unless the Feds are doing the
enforcement.



On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 20:51:17 -0500, Gene Kearns
wrote:


And it is a Federal Requirement to placard the dispensing pump. It is
illegal to burn E15 in boats!

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/ethanol.shtml



Ethanol is the biggest scam since the chlorophyll craze in the 50s.
The corn farmers want corn in everything and they figured out how to
get it in your car.

A real ecologist would point out it is worse than gasoline on several
counts, not to mention the depletion of the Ogalalla aquifer.
When that water is gone, we will forget there was ever an oil
"crisis".



Twenty years from now you will be more disppointed
by the things that you didn't do than by the ones
you did do.

So, throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor.
Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.
- Mark Twain


1987 23' Grady-White Gulfstream
2005 20' Angler CC
2004 17' G3 CC 1756

Out of Shallotte, NC



Gene, what would replace the oxygenator in gasoline? That was the
original purpose of ethanol ... as a replacement for MBTE which was
banned.

Maybe you are of the school that engines today do not need an
oxygenator in gasoline?


Aunt Clara says everyone's not as happy with E15 as you appear to be.

http://content.usatoday.com/communit...1#.VMetMCwfq70
--

Guns don't cause problems. The behavior
of certain gun owners causes problems.

On 1/27/2015 1:20 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jan 2015 09:19:11 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 1/27/2015 7:52 AM, Gene Kearns wrote:

On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 21:19:02 -0500, wrote:

I would agree (aside from corn farmers) there is nothing good about
ethanol. One of my biggest concerns is labeling.

In NC, the General Assembly, unable to ban labeling, defunded
enforcement. So, I wonder if consumers will actually know what they
are pouring into their tank.... unless the Feds are doing the
enforcement.



On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 20:51:17 -0500, Gene Kearns
wrote:


And it is a Federal Requirement to placard the dispensing pump. It is
illegal to burn E15 in boats!

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/ethanol.shtml



Ethanol is the biggest scam since the chlorophyll craze in the 50s.
The corn farmers want corn in everything and they figured out how to
get it in your car.

A real ecologist would point out it is worse than gasoline on several
counts, not to mention the depletion of the Ogalalla aquifer.
When that water is gone, we will forget there was ever an oil
"crisis".



Twenty years from now you will be more disppointed
by the things that you didn't do than by the ones
you did do.

So, throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor.
Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.
- Mark Twain


1987 23' Grady-White Gulfstream
2005 20' Angler CC
2004 17' G3 CC 1756

Out of Shallotte, NC



Gene, what would replace the oxygenator in gasoline? That was the
original purpose of ethanol ... as a replacement for MBTE which was
banned.

Maybe you are of the school that engines today do not need an
oxygenator in gasoline?



I am not sure what they use but we are seeing REC-90 (ethanol free)
pumps popping up everywhere. I don't think it is worth the extra 50
cents to a buck extra but plenty of people do.
A cruel joke would be to find out they swapped ethanol for methanol.
That would not change the phase separation problem much.



I was reading a couple of hours ago that ethanol was chosen to replace
MBTE because it was inexpensive and plentiful. Henry Ford originally
wanted to run his cars on it.

I am not a proponent of ethanol. I just don't think it's responsible
for many of the engine/fuel lines issues that you hear about, although
at one time it was. I remember Yellowfin having to recall a number of
boats with built-in fiberglass fuel tanks because the ethanol was
reacting with the resin in the fiberglass. That was many years ago
and the problem was fixed.

Products (lawnmowers, chain saws, etc.,) that have been "ethanolized"
with compatible rubber fuel lines and whatever don't seem to have any
problems with it. As for phase separation and low octane "vodka" on the
bottom of the tank, I remain skeptical. I ran the Town Car down almost
to empty with the old gas that was in it because I thought I was going
to have to drop the tank to replace the fuel sender unit. (Turns out I
didn't have to). The car ran just fine with the tank almost empty and
with 1-2 year old E-10 gas in it. Maybe it likes vodka.

"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 1/27/2015 7:52 AM, Gene Kearns wrote:

On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 21:19:02 -0500, wrote:

I would agree (aside from corn farmers) there is nothing good about
ethanol. One of my biggest concerns is labeling.

In NC, the General Assembly, unable to ban labeling, defunded
enforcement. So, I wonder if consumers will actually know what they
are pouring into their tank.... unless the Feds are doing the
enforcement.



On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 20:51:17 -0500, Gene Kearns
wrote:


And it is a Federal Requirement to placard the dispensing pump. It is
illegal to burn E15 in boats!

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/ethanol.shtml



Ethanol is the biggest scam since the chlorophyll craze in the 50s.
The corn farmers want corn in everything and they figured out how to
get it in your car.

A real ecologist would point out it is worse than gasoline on several
counts, not to mention the depletion of the Ogalalla aquifer.
When that water is gone, we will forget there was ever an oil
"crisis".



Twenty years from now you will be more disppointed
by the things that you didn't do than by the ones
you did do.

So, throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor.
Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.
- Mark Twain


1987 23' Grady-White Gulfstream
2005 20' Angler CC
2004 17' G3 CC 1756

Out of Shallotte, NC



Gene, what would replace the oxygenator in gasoline? That was the
original purpose of ethanol ... as a replacement for MBTE which was
banned.

Maybe you are of the school that engines today do not need an
oxygenator in gasoline?

Other than ARCO who was a producer of MTBE the refineries said they could
meet requirements via refining. That is the stated reason for adding
alcohol. Really it is a payoff to ADM.

wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 21:18:26 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 20:51:17 -0500, Gene Kearns
wrote:


And it is a Federal Requirement to placard the dispensing pump. It is
illegal to burn E15 in boats!

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/ethanol.shtml



Ethanol is the biggest scam since the chlorophyll craze in the 50s.
The corn farmers want corn in everything and they figured out how to
get it in your car.

A real ecologist would point out it is worse than gasoline on several
counts, not to mention the depletion of the Ogalalla aquifer.
When that water is gone, we will forget there was ever an oil
"crisis".

If alcohol was such a good thing, we would drop tariffs on imported cane
sugar and it's products. And the poor could afford to eat corn products.
Been riots in Mexico over the cost of corn tortillas. Due to the oil
required to grow corn and refine it, there is less than a 5% energy gain.
9 times as much alcohol from equal acreage of sugar cane to corn.

The problem with that is sugar cane carries it's own ecological
damage.
You only have to look at what it is doing to the Everglades.

But a cane plantation is probably as environment rntally friendly as a corn
farm.

On Tue, 27 Jan 2015 09:19:11 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

“With all due deference for the dream chemists, armchair farmers and
platform orators who have touted alcohol-gasoline as the greatest of
all fuels, oil industry technologists know and automotive engineers
know that it is not as satisfactory a fuel as straight gasoline of
normal quality.”

Conger Reynolds (1939)

Obviously, this is not a new issue. gasohol sucks as fuel for 2-cycle
engines and any of the other millions of engines out there not
specifically made to burn E15 or greater. It is hard to brag about any
fuel that immediately voids the manufacturer's warranty.

If you look at the history of gasoline, alcohol was abandoned in favor
of tetraethyl lead, then abandoned in favor of MTBE..... and finally
forced on the American engine owner by Federal Mandate (to appease the
American corn farmer). Alcohol sucked at the turn of the century and
it still does.

Not related to this discussion, but additionally, it should be noted
that alcohol is, from an environmental standpoint, a nightmare.

On 1/27/2015 7:52 AM, Gene Kearns wrote:

On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 21:19:02 -0500, wrote:

I would agree (aside from corn farmers) there is nothing good about
ethanol. One of my biggest concerns is labeling.

In NC, the General Assembly, unable to ban labeling, defunded
enforcement. So, I wonder if consumers will actually know what they
are pouring into their tank.... unless the Feds are doing the
enforcement.



On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 20:51:17 -0500, Gene Kearns
wrote:


And it is a Federal Requirement to placard the dispensing pump. It is
illegal to burn E15 in boats!

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/ethanol.shtml



Ethanol is the biggest scam since the chlorophyll craze in the 50s.
The corn farmers want corn in everything and they figured out how to
get it in your car.

A real ecologist would point out it is worse than gasoline on several
counts, not to mention the depletion of the Ogalalla aquifer.
When that water is gone, we will forget there was ever an oil
"crisis".



Twenty years from now you will be more disppointed
by the things that you didn't do than by the ones
you did do.

So, throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor.
Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.
- Mark Twain


1987 23' Grady-White Gulfstream
2005 20' Angler CC
2004 17' G3 CC 1756

Out of Shallotte, NC



Gene, what would replace the oxygenator in gasoline? That was the
original purpose of ethanol ... as a replacement for MBTE which was
banned.

Maybe you are of the school that engines today do not need an
oxygenator in gasoline?





Twenty years from now you will be more disppointed
by the things that you didn't do than by the ones
you did do.

So, throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor.
Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.
- Mark Twain


1987 23' Grady-White Gulfstream
2005 20' Angler CC
2004 17' G3 CC 1756

Out of Shallotte, NC

On 1/27/2015 3:35 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jan 2015 14:55:14 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 1/27/2015 1:20 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jan 2015 09:19:11 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 1/27/2015 7:52 AM, Gene Kearns wrote:

On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 21:19:02 -0500, wrote:

I would agree (aside from corn farmers) there is nothing good about
ethanol. One of my biggest concerns is labeling.

In NC, the General Assembly, unable to ban labeling, defunded
enforcement. So, I wonder if consumers will actually know what they
are pouring into their tank.... unless the Feds are doing the
enforcement.



On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 20:51:17 -0500, Gene Kearns
wrote:


And it is a Federal Requirement to placard the dispensing pump. It is
illegal to burn E15 in boats!

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/ethanol.shtml



Ethanol is the biggest scam since the chlorophyll craze in the 50s.
The corn farmers want corn in everything and they figured out how to
get it in your car.

A real ecologist would point out it is worse than gasoline on several
counts, not to mention the depletion of the Ogalalla aquifer.
When that water is gone, we will forget there was ever an oil
"crisis".



Twenty years from now you will be more disppointed
by the things that you didn't do than by the ones
you did do.

So, throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor.
Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.
- Mark Twain


1987 23' Grady-White Gulfstream
2005 20' Angler CC
2004 17' G3 CC 1756

Out of Shallotte, NC



Gene, what would replace the oxygenator in gasoline? That was the
original purpose of ethanol ... as a replacement for MBTE which was
banned.

Maybe you are of the school that engines today do not need an
oxygenator in gasoline?



I am not sure what they use but we are seeing REC-90 (ethanol free)
pumps popping up everywhere. I don't think it is worth the extra 50
cents to a buck extra but plenty of people do.
A cruel joke would be to find out they swapped ethanol for methanol.
That would not change the phase separation problem much.



I was reading a couple of hours ago that ethanol was chosen to replace
MBTE because it was inexpensive and plentiful. Henry Ford originally
wanted to run his cars on it.

I am not a proponent of ethanol. I just don't think it's responsible
for many of the engine/fuel lines issues that you hear about, although
at one time it was. I remember Yellowfin having to recall a number of
boats with built-in fiberglass fuel tanks because the ethanol was
reacting with the resin in the fiberglass. That was many years ago
and the problem was fixed.

Products (lawnmowers, chain saws, etc.,) that have been "ethanolized"
with compatible rubber fuel lines and whatever don't seem to have any
problems with it. As for phase separation and low octane "vodka" on the
bottom of the tank, I remain skeptical. I ran the Town Car down almost
to empty with the old gas that was in it because I thought I was going
to have to drop the tank to replace the fuel sender unit. (Turns out I
didn't have to). The car ran just fine with the tank almost empty and
with 1-2 year old E-10 gas in it. Maybe it likes vodka.


There is plenty of information about it on the web. They will tell you
the Lincoln survived because new gas tanks are pretty much sealed.
There is very little exchange of air with the atmosphere so you do not
get the moisture in the gas.
Honestly, I am not that afraid of it either but I don't store gas. It
has a pretty short shelf life here and I am storing full cans.
I try not to keep the mixed gas for my 2 stroke stuff very long. I mix
it in small batches and dump the rest in my truck when I think I am
done.



You just made me realize something about the Honda generator. It's tank
is also sealed similar to the old outboard motor gas tanks.
There's a vent on the gas cap that you have to open otherwise it
will run for a while and then die due to lack of gas. Maybe that
contributes to why it could sit with old gas for so long and still
start and run fine.