And it is a Federal Requirement to placard the dispensing pump. It is
illegal to burn E15 in boats!

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/ethanol.shtml



Twenty years from now you will be more disppointed
by the things that you didn't do than by the ones
you did do.

So, throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor.
Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.
- Mark Twain


1987 23' Grady-White Gulfstream
2005 20' Angler CC
2004 17' G3 CC 1756

Out of Shallotte, NC

wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 20:51:17 -0500, Gene Kearns
wrote:


And it is a Federal Requirement to placard the dispensing pump. It is
illegal to burn E15 in boats!

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/ethanol.shtml



Ethanol is the biggest scam since the chlorophyll craze in the 50s.
The corn farmers want corn in everything and they figured out how to
get it in your car.

A real ecologist would point out it is worse than gasoline on several
counts, not to mention the depletion of the Ogalalla aquifer.
When that water is gone, we will forget there was ever an oil
"crisis".

If alcohol was such a good thing, we would drop tariffs on imported cane
sugar and it's products. And the poor could afford to eat corn products.
Been riots in Mexico over the cost of corn tortillas. Due to the oil
required to grow corn and refine it, there is less than a 5% energy gain.
9 times as much alcohol from equal acreage of sugar cane to corn.

wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 21:18:26 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 20:51:17 -0500, Gene Kearns
wrote:


And it is a Federal Requirement to placard the dispensing pump. It is
illegal to burn E15 in boats!

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/ethanol.shtml



Ethanol is the biggest scam since the chlorophyll craze in the 50s.
The corn farmers want corn in everything and they figured out how to
get it in your car.

A real ecologist would point out it is worse than gasoline on several
counts, not to mention the depletion of the Ogalalla aquifer.
When that water is gone, we will forget there was ever an oil
"crisis".

If alcohol was such a good thing, we would drop tariffs on imported cane
sugar and it's products. And the poor could afford to eat corn products.
Been riots in Mexico over the cost of corn tortillas. Due to the oil
required to grow corn and refine it, there is less than a 5% energy gain.
9 times as much alcohol from equal acreage of sugar cane to corn.

The problem with that is sugar cane carries it's own ecological
damage.
You only have to look at what it is doing to the Everglades.

But a cane plantation is probably as environment rntally friendly as a corn
farm.

wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jan 2015 14:30:23 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 21:18:26 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 20:51:17 -0500, Gene Kearns
wrote:


And it is a Federal Requirement to placard the dispensing pump. It is
illegal to burn E15 in boats!

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/ethanol.shtml



Ethanol is the biggest scam since the chlorophyll craze in the 50s.
The corn farmers want corn in everything and they figured out how to
get it in your car.

A real ecologist would point out it is worse than gasoline on several
counts, not to mention the depletion of the Ogalalla aquifer.
When that water is gone, we will forget there was ever an oil
"crisis".

If alcohol was such a good thing, we would drop tariffs on imported cane
sugar and it's products. And the poor could afford to eat corn products.
Been riots in Mexico over the cost of corn tortillas. Due to the oil
required to grow corn and refine it, there is less than a 5% energy gain.
9 times as much alcohol from equal acreage of sugar cane to corn.

The problem with that is sugar cane carries it's own ecological
damage.
You only have to look at what it is doing to the Everglades.

But a cane plantation is probably as environment rntally friendly as a corn
farm.

You must not know much about sugar.

To start with they burn the field before harvest and then they flood
the field afterwards and that "runnoft" (movie reference) is what
causes a lot of that pollution. (Look at "back pumping" in Lake
Okeechobee)
They also use at least as much if not more fertilizer,
Most of these sugar plantations are on reclaimed wet lands, including
in the US.

According to the people I talked to Australia last year, who are in the
cane area. No burning. And why flood afterwards? No ash to get rid of.
Hawaii actually dug a ditch and tunnels to bring eater to the cane fields
way back when. You can now do a ditch kayak trip on the Big Island.

wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jan 2015 19:24:43 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jan 2015 14:30:23 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 21:18:26 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 20:51:17 -0500, Gene Kearns
wrote:


And it is a Federal Requirement to placard the dispensing pump. It is
illegal to burn E15 in boats!

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/ethanol.shtml



Ethanol is the biggest scam since the chlorophyll craze in the 50s.
The corn farmers want corn in everything and they figured out how to
get it in your car.

A real ecologist would point out it is worse than gasoline on several
counts, not to mention the depletion of the Ogalalla aquifer.
When that water is gone, we will forget there was ever an oil
"crisis".

If alcohol was such a good thing, we would drop tariffs on imported cane
sugar and it's products. And the poor could afford to eat corn products.
Been riots in Mexico over the cost of corn tortillas. Due to the oil
required to grow corn and refine it, there is less than a 5% energy gain.
9 times as much alcohol from equal acreage of sugar cane to corn.

The problem with that is sugar cane carries it's own ecological
damage.
You only have to look at what it is doing to the Everglades.

But a cane plantation is probably as environment rntally friendly as a corn
farm.

You must not know much about sugar.

To start with they burn the field before harvest and then they flood
the field afterwards and that "runnoft" (movie reference) is what
causes a lot of that pollution. (Look at "back pumping" in Lake
Okeechobee)
They also use at least as much if not more fertilizer,
Most of these sugar plantations are on reclaimed wet lands, including
in the US.

According to the people I talked to Australia last year, who are in the
cane area. No burning. And why flood afterwards? No ash to get rid of.
Hawaii actually dug a ditch and tunnels to bring eater to the cane fields
way back when. You can now do a ditch kayak trip on the Big Island.

According to the industry

The benefits of burning sugarcane a
An overall lower cost of production that benefits
farmers and consumers

Allows more efficient harvesting of sugarcane
in the field

Reduces the number of hauling units on the
highways delivering sugarcane to the factory
for processing, thus reducing wear and tear on
public roads

Decreases the volume of material to be processed
by the factories

Shortens the harvest season by as much as 10
percent

Increases the yield of sugar recovered per ton of
sugarcane by the factories and improves
overall quality of the sugar produced

Reduces wear and tear on field and factory
equipment

Reduces energy expenditures in the field and by
the factory

It is the common practice in Florida, Louisiana and Maui along with
the fields in the Caribbean and South America.

If the wind is right, we can smell them burning in Clewiston.


Those ditches are what I am talking about. They keep the field marshy
and then they back pump them or let gravity drain it if the land is
high, before they harvest

The Kohalo ditch was to deliver water from I think 20 miles away. I
remember the burning when I was stationed in Biloxi, but the Australians
said they do not burn.

On 1/28/2015 3:37 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2015 12:46:39 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

wrote:


Those ditches are what I am talking about. They keep the field marshy
and then they back pump them or let gravity drain it if the land is
high, before they harvest

The Kohalo ditch was to deliver water from I think 20 miles away. I
remember the burning when I was stationed in Biloxi, but the Australians
said they do not burn.

I really only know about how it is done in Florida. My SIL works for
water management and it is in his district.
I did see an article where the people in Maui want to stop the burning
but it hasn't happened yet. Most likely they are the movie stars who
are taking over the island and don't want to smell the smoke.



There are sugar cane fields west of Jupiter, Florida. I never knew they
were there until we took a motorcycle ride out that way. They burned
the fields to harvest and occasionally you could smell it in the air in
Jupiter. The biggest complaint I heard was the requirement to have your
roof power washed every so often due to them blackening over time.

Also were surrounded by sugar cane fields at the transmitter facility in
Ponce, Puerto Rico. When burning time came the people on the base were
told to stay indoors at home or at your work place and keep children
indoors at all times. The reason was because the burning of the fields
drove all the mongoose out and they would over run the Navy base. The
mongoose had been introduced to control the snake population but they
can be ferocious little animals when in a panic. The fields were
operated by Don Q (rum manufacturer).

On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 21:19:02 -0500, wrote:

I would agree (aside from corn farmers) there is nothing good about
ethanol. One of my biggest concerns is labeling.

In NC, the General Assembly, unable to ban labeling, defunded
enforcement. So, I wonder if consumers will actually know what they
are pouring into their tank.... unless the Feds are doing the
enforcement.



On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 20:51:17 -0500, Gene Kearns
wrote:


And it is a Federal Requirement to placard the dispensing pump. It is
illegal to burn E15 in boats!

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/ethanol.shtml



Ethanol is the biggest scam since the chlorophyll craze in the 50s.
The corn farmers want corn in everything and they figured out how to
get it in your car.

A real ecologist would point out it is worse than gasoline on several
counts, not to mention the depletion of the Ogalalla aquifer.
When that water is gone, we will forget there was ever an oil
"crisis".



Twenty years from now you will be more disppointed
by the things that you didn't do than by the ones
you did do.

So, throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor.
Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.
- Mark Twain


1987 23' Grady-White Gulfstream
2005 20' Angler CC
2004 17' G3 CC 1756

Out of Shallotte, NC

On 1/27/2015 7:52 AM, Gene Kearns wrote:

On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 21:19:02 -0500, wrote:

I would agree (aside from corn farmers) there is nothing good about
ethanol. One of my biggest concerns is labeling.

In NC, the General Assembly, unable to ban labeling, defunded
enforcement. So, I wonder if consumers will actually know what they
are pouring into their tank.... unless the Feds are doing the
enforcement.



On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 20:51:17 -0500, Gene Kearns
wrote:


And it is a Federal Requirement to placard the dispensing pump. It is
illegal to burn E15 in boats!

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/ethanol.shtml



Ethanol is the biggest scam since the chlorophyll craze in the 50s.
The corn farmers want corn in everything and they figured out how to
get it in your car.

A real ecologist would point out it is worse than gasoline on several
counts, not to mention the depletion of the Ogalalla aquifer.
When that water is gone, we will forget there was ever an oil
"crisis".



Twenty years from now you will be more disppointed
by the things that you didn't do than by the ones
you did do.

So, throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor.
Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.
- Mark Twain


1987 23' Grady-White Gulfstream
2005 20' Angler CC
2004 17' G3 CC 1756

Out of Shallotte, NC



Gene, what would replace the oxygenator in gasoline? That was the
original purpose of ethanol ... as a replacement for MBTE which was
banned.

Maybe you are of the school that engines today do not need an
oxygenator in gasoline?

On Tue, 27 Jan 2015 09:19:11 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/27/2015 7:52 AM, Gene Kearns wrote:

On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 21:19:02 -0500, wrote:

I would agree (aside from corn farmers) there is nothing good about
ethanol. One of my biggest concerns is labeling.

In NC, the General Assembly, unable to ban labeling, defunded
enforcement. So, I wonder if consumers will actually know what they
are pouring into their tank.... unless the Feds are doing the
enforcement.



On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 20:51:17 -0500, Gene Kearns
wrote:


And it is a Federal Requirement to placard the dispensing pump. It is
illegal to burn E15 in boats!

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/ethanol.shtml



Ethanol is the biggest scam since the chlorophyll craze in the 50s.
The corn farmers want corn in everything and they figured out how to
get it in your car.

A real ecologist would point out it is worse than gasoline on several
counts, not to mention the depletion of the Ogalalla aquifer.
When that water is gone, we will forget there was ever an oil
"crisis".



Twenty years from now you will be more disppointed
by the things that you didn't do than by the ones
you did do.

So, throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor.
Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.
- Mark Twain


1987 23' Grady-White Gulfstream
2005 20' Angler CC
2004 17' G3 CC 1756

Out of Shallotte, NC



Gene, what would replace the oxygenator in gasoline? That was the
original purpose of ethanol ... as a replacement for MBTE which was
banned.

Maybe you are of the school that engines today do not need an
oxygenator in gasoline?


Aunt Clara says everyone's not as happy with E15 as you appear to be.

http://content.usatoday.com/communit...1#.VMetMCwfq70
--

Guns don't cause problems. The behavior
of certain gun owners causes problems.

"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 1/27/2015 7:52 AM, Gene Kearns wrote:

On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 21:19:02 -0500, wrote:

I would agree (aside from corn farmers) there is nothing good about
ethanol. One of my biggest concerns is labeling.

In NC, the General Assembly, unable to ban labeling, defunded
enforcement. So, I wonder if consumers will actually know what they
are pouring into their tank.... unless the Feds are doing the
enforcement.



On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 20:51:17 -0500, Gene Kearns
wrote:


And it is a Federal Requirement to placard the dispensing pump. It is
illegal to burn E15 in boats!

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/ethanol.shtml



Ethanol is the biggest scam since the chlorophyll craze in the 50s.
The corn farmers want corn in everything and they figured out how to
get it in your car.

A real ecologist would point out it is worse than gasoline on several
counts, not to mention the depletion of the Ogalalla aquifer.
When that water is gone, we will forget there was ever an oil
"crisis".



Twenty years from now you will be more disppointed
by the things that you didn't do than by the ones
you did do.

So, throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor.
Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.
- Mark Twain


1987 23' Grady-White Gulfstream
2005 20' Angler CC
2004 17' G3 CC 1756

Out of Shallotte, NC



Gene, what would replace the oxygenator in gasoline? That was the
original purpose of ethanol ... as a replacement for MBTE which was
banned.

Maybe you are of the school that engines today do not need an
oxygenator in gasoline?

Other than ARCO who was a producer of MTBE the refineries said they could
meet requirements via refining. That is the stated reason for adding
alcohol. Really it is a payoff to ADM.