http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1094588_will-ultracapacitors-save-start-stop-systems-from-consumer-wrath

On Saturday, January 17, 2015 at 3:55:10 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1094588_will-ultracapacitors-save-start-stop-systems-from-consumer-wrath

My Audi A6 has the start-stop system on it. Fortunately, it also has a button that allows you to disable it, which I did. The article points out one reason, additional wear and tear on the battery. The second reason that they didn't point out is the wear on the starter and engine itself. With the type of driving I do the fuel savings would be insignificant anyway, and would never come close to paying for the added maintenance.

On 1/17/2015 8:04 AM, wrote:

On Saturday, January 17, 2015 at 3:55:10 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1094588_will-ultracapacitors-save-start-stop-systems-from-consumer-wrath

My Audi A6 has the start-stop system on it. Fortunately, it also has a button that allows you to disable it, which I did. The article points out one reason, additional wear and tear on the battery. The second reason that they didn't point out is the wear on the starter and engine itself. With the type of driving I do the fuel savings would be insignificant anyway, and would never come close to paying for the added maintenance.



Yup. Unfortunately the automakers are being forced to employ any and
all means to meet increasing federal fuel economy requirements.
The article points out that very soon half or more cars sold in the USA
will be equipped with start-stop systems.

It's crazy in a way. Sometimes the efforts to meet required standards
simply produce new, more serious environmental problems like the safe
disposal of dangerous chemicals and, in this case, environmentally
unfriendly batteries that wear out faster than normal.

CFL light bulbs contain mercury. How many people actually follow the
disposal instructions when they go bad? How many people follow the
environmental hazard precautions when they dispose of lithium/ion
batteries? Not many, I'll bet.

On 1/17/2015 8:04 AM, wrote:
On Saturday, January 17, 2015 at 3:55:10 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1094588_will-ultracapacitors-save-start-stop-systems-from-consumer-wrath

My Audi A6 has the start-stop system on it. Fortunately, it also has a button that allows you to disable it, which I did. The article points out one reason, additional wear and tear on the battery. The second reason that they didn't point out is the wear on the starter and engine itself. With the type of driving I do the fuel savings would be insignificant anyway, and would never come close to paying for the added maintenance.


Back in the 80's when we were discussing this we assumed by now there
would be no starters... The computer would just fire the next cylinder
in line is how we thought it would work...

On 1/17/2015 11:27 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 17 Jan 2015 10:06:02 -0500, KC wrote:

Back in the 80's when we were discussing this we assumed by now there
would be no starters... The computer would just fire the next cylinder
in line is how we thought it would work...

How would that work? To start an engine you need fuel, air, spark and
compression. If the car had sat more than a minute, there would be no
compression and most injected engines cut the fuel off before the
engine stops spinning these days to mitigate "making oil" so the "next
cylinder" would be dry.



I don't think Scott understands what "start-stop" is.

He's probably thinking of the attempts to cut fuel and ignition to 2 or
more cylinders once a car had reached cruising speed. GM had a system
that cut an 8 cylinder back to 6 or 4 in the 1980's. Didn't really
work out very well.

Some modern engines have a system whereby if the engine starts to
overheat, a couple of cylinders will shut down and just pump air, adding
additional cooling. The engine in my truck is supposed to do that but
it has never had a reason to.

On 1/17/2015 1:37 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/17/2015 11:27 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 17 Jan 2015 10:06:02 -0500, KC wrote:

Back in the 80's when we were discussing this we assumed by now there
would be no starters... The computer would just fire the next cylinder
in line is how we thought it would work...

How would that work? To start an engine you need fuel, air, spark and
compression. If the car had sat more than a minute, there would be no
compression and most injected engines cut the fuel off before the
engine stops spinning these days to mitigate "making oil" so the "next
cylinder" would be dry.



I don't think Scott understands what "start-stop" is.

Is there a particular dictionary definition, or do I have to join a
secret club to know? I think of start stop as the engine cutting at stop
signs or even down hills.. then starting back up when it's needed again.
Am I close professor?

He's probably thinking of the attempts to cut fuel and ignition to 2 or
more cylinders once a car had reached cruising speed. GM had a system
that cut an 8 cylinder back to 6 or 4 in the 1980's. Didn't really
work out very well.

Some modern engines have a system whereby if the engine starts to
overheat, a couple of cylinders will shut down and just pump air, adding
additional cooling. The engine in my truck is supposed to do that but
it has never had a reason to.

On 1/17/2015 2:01 PM, KC wrote:

On 1/17/2015 1:37 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/17/2015 11:27 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 17 Jan 2015 10:06:02 -0500, KC wrote:

Back in the 80's when we were discussing this we assumed by now there
would be no starters... The computer would just fire the next cylinder
in line is how we thought it would work...

How would that work? To start an engine you need fuel, air, spark and
compression. If the car had sat more than a minute, there would be no
compression and most injected engines cut the fuel off before the
engine stops spinning these days to mitigate "making oil" so the "next
cylinder" would be dry.



I don't think Scott understands what "start-stop" is.



Is there a particular dictionary definition, or do I have to join a
secret club to know? I think of start stop as the engine cutting at stop
signs or even down hills.. then starting back up when it's needed again.
Am I close professor?


When you write ....

"Back in the 80's when we were discussing this we assumed by now there
would be no starters... The computer would just fire the next cylinder
in line is how we thought it would work... "

.... who knows what the hell you are talking about?

On 1/17/2015 11:27 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 17 Jan 2015 10:06:02 -0500, KC wrote:

Back in the 80's when we were discussing this we assumed by now there
would be no starters... The computer would just fire the next cylinder
in line is how we thought it would work...

How would that work? To start an engine you need fuel, air, spark and
compression. If the car had sat more than a minute, there would be no
compression and most injected engines cut the fuel off before the
engine stops spinning these days to mitigate "making oil" so the "next
cylinder" would be dry.


We weren't sure how it was gonna' work, that's why we are not rich I
am just telling you where the industry was back then in the beginning of
computer controlled cars...

On 1/17/2015 7:14 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 17 Jan 2015 13:42:37 -0500, KC wrote:

On 1/17/2015 11:27 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 17 Jan 2015 10:06:02 -0500, KC wrote:

Back in the 80's when we were discussing this we assumed by now there
would be no starters... The computer would just fire the next cylinder
in line is how we thought it would work...

How would that work? To start an engine you need fuel, air, spark and
compression. If the car had sat more than a minute, there would be no
compression and most injected engines cut the fuel off before the
engine stops spinning these days to mitigate "making oil" so the "next
cylinder" would be dry.


We weren't sure how it was gonna' work, that's why we are not rich I
am just telling you where the industry was back then in the beginning of
computer controlled cars..

If you could get a properly mixed and compressed charge in a cylinder
or two, it would work. Some old airplanes (maybe even newer ones) used
to use a shotgun shell like charge to kick them over..


Maybe only one cylinder is fitted with a seperate injector and when the
engine stops a small electric motor turns it to that cylinder just
slightly past TDC. Inject pressurized mix, and fire it?

I think the biggest problem though with that might be building that
pressure in the cylinder without compressing it with the cylinder itself.

Then I think of the problem of getting enough out of that one boom to
move the next cylinder compressed when you consider the opposing force
of the fly wheel, etc...

So then I think of our Suzuki 250 which has a centrifugal compression
release. There is a part in the exhaust cam that holds the exhaust port
open till the rpms come up enough to close it off. That makes it so a
105 pound girl can consistently start a 250 cc, one cylinder, 4 stroke.

Yeah, I am sure all of these have been considered but all in all,
personally I think the old starter, solenoid, alternator and battery do
a great job and are a lot simpler to work on that any of the other
setups we may be considering here....

On Saturday, January 17, 2015 at 8:04:11 AM UTC-5, wrote:

My Audi A6 has the start-stop system on it.

Someone else has developed krauses lying ability.