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Garner Video
On 12/6/2014 1:11 PM, Let it snowe wrote:
On 12/6/2014 1:06 PM, F*O*A*D wrote: "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 12/6/2014 11:16 AM, wrote: On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 09:08:59 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: All misdemeanors. Driving without a license. Possession of a small amount of pot. A very dangerous threat to his community. The New York policy of cracking down on misdemeanors has been very effective in preventing felonies. That is easily demonstrated in the last decade's crime statistics. As for the arrest, if a cop stops you for any minor offence, say a seat belt violation and you refuse to sign the ticket, you are going off in cuffs ... or getting shot. (like the guy everyone seems to be ignoring) I am the first to say the cops can be out of line but we seem to be hung up on the wrong ones. I don't know what was more effective in New York, chasing after the little crimes (Broken Window) or the stop and frisk policy. If I had to guess I would think the latter. I wonder if the ultra violence cops commit against unarmed civilians has any impact on violence in our society generally. As in, have a disagreement? Shoot 'em. It doesn't appear that you comprehend what went down. I hear what Harry is saying. The police use the same tactics on petty criminals (like someone selling loose cigarettes on the street) as they do going after a serial killer holding a hostage. The training to apprehend and control is the same. Garner was not fighting back or shooting at anyone. His "resistance" most mostly verbal, expressing frustration because the police had obviously stopped him before. There really was no need for the situation to escalate physically as quickly as it did. A little more talking in a calm manner with some training in how to defuse a situation without having to beat the crap out of someone might be a better approach. |
Garner Video
On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 13:03:54 -0500, Let it snowe
wrote: On 12/6/2014 12:33 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 12/6/2014 9:40 AM, Wayne.B wrote: On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 09:08:59 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 12/6/2014 9:01 AM, Let it snowe wrote: On 12/6/2014 8:10 AM, KC wrote: On 12/6/2014 12:47 AM, wrote: On Fri, 05 Dec 2014 19:49:05 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 12/5/2014 7:28 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Fri, 5 Dec 2014 19:14:43 -0500, BAR wrote: In article , says... CNN ran a long video a little while ago that recorded the aftermath of the take down of Garner and the activities of the EMT personnel and movement of him to an ambulance. The video showed the EMT checking him for a pulse. It's not clear what she said but it appears she indicated he had a pulse. As they loaded him on a gurney for transport a bystander asked one of the cops why they didn't perform CPR. The cop answered that Garner was breathing. If this is all true, it sorta changes the whole story about the cop choking him to death. You do know that there was a black female Sargent who was supervising the arrest of Garner. Why wasn't she subject to indictment for allowing a death to occur during her watch? It does seem like a whole bunch of folks just skipped over that. “Pantaleo is the only NYPD member facing possible indictment. Others at the scene, including two sergeants, were offered immunity for their testimony to the grand jury.” ...NBC news CNN was reporting today that the EMTs are in trouble. I was just passing through but I think I heard them say 2 are suspended and 2 were fired. Considering the death was partially blamed on the position he was held down in and the fact that cops other than Pantaleo were sitting on him. I can see why they didn't indict. Far too much reasonable doubt about any one person causing his death. It does look like EMS could have done a lot more to keep this guy alive. They seemed to think he was not in any particular trouble or they would have AT LEAST put an oxygen mask on him and pumped some O2 into his lungs. That might have fixed him up right then. My bet is everyone was happy that this guy was docile and they didn't want to wake him up. That was the crime if there was one. At a certain point I am starting to think they did not value his life enough but that was long after the take down. Or they had seen this act before from this guy. He was well known in the area to the cops, with 31 previous arrests... Only 22 arrests were for crimes other than selling outlawed cigarettes. Do you happen to know what those crimes were? All misdemeanors. Driving without a license. Possession of a small amount of pot. A very dangerous threat to his community. === I think you'd have to admit that 22 arrests does not exactly make for a model citizen. How many crimes did he commit and did not get caught? Would you want him for a neighbor or hanging out in front of your business? People are supposed to learn from their mistakes. No argument. Just not sure the punishment he received fit the crime. He died resisting arrest. He wasn't being punished. === That's correct but it does raise the interesting question of what would be a suitable punishment for a career street criminal with 31 priors. Clearly a $50 fine and a night in the can is not going to get the job done if the goal is to get him off the street and mend his ways. |
Garner Video
F*O*A*D wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 12/6/2014 11:16 AM, wrote: On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 09:08:59 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: All misdemeanors. Driving without a license. Possession of a small amount of pot. A very dangerous threat to his community. The New York policy of cracking down on misdemeanors has been very effective in preventing felonies. That is easily demonstrated in the last decade's crime statistics. As for the arrest, if a cop stops you for any minor offence, say a seat belt violation and you refuse to sign the ticket, you are going off in cuffs ... or getting shot. (like the guy everyone seems to be ignoring) I am the first to say the cops can be out of line but we seem to be hung up on the wrong ones. I don't know what was more effective in New York, chasing after the little crimes (Broken Window) or the stop and frisk policy. If I had to guess I would think the latter. I wonder if the ultra violence cops commit against unarmed civilians has any impact on violence in our society generally. As in, have a disagreement? Shoot 'em. I did not hear where they shot him. Is that is the GJ report? |
Garner Video
On 12/6/2014 1:43 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 13:03:54 -0500, Let it snowe wrote: On 12/6/2014 12:33 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 12/6/2014 9:40 AM, Wayne.B wrote: On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 09:08:59 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 12/6/2014 9:01 AM, Let it snowe wrote: On 12/6/2014 8:10 AM, KC wrote: On 12/6/2014 12:47 AM, wrote: On Fri, 05 Dec 2014 19:49:05 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 12/5/2014 7:28 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Fri, 5 Dec 2014 19:14:43 -0500, BAR wrote: In article , says... CNN ran a long video a little while ago that recorded the aftermath of the take down of Garner and the activities of the EMT personnel and movement of him to an ambulance. The video showed the EMT checking him for a pulse. It's not clear what she said but it appears she indicated he had a pulse. As they loaded him on a gurney for transport a bystander asked one of the cops why they didn't perform CPR. The cop answered that Garner was breathing. If this is all true, it sorta changes the whole story about the cop choking him to death. You do know that there was a black female Sargent who was supervising the arrest of Garner. Why wasn't she subject to indictment for allowing a death to occur during her watch? It does seem like a whole bunch of folks just skipped over that. “Pantaleo is the only NYPD member facing possible indictment. Others at the scene, including two sergeants, were offered immunity for their testimony to the grand jury.” ...NBC news CNN was reporting today that the EMTs are in trouble. I was just passing through but I think I heard them say 2 are suspended and 2 were fired. Considering the death was partially blamed on the position he was held down in and the fact that cops other than Pantaleo were sitting on him. I can see why they didn't indict. Far too much reasonable doubt about any one person causing his death. It does look like EMS could have done a lot more to keep this guy alive. They seemed to think he was not in any particular trouble or they would have AT LEAST put an oxygen mask on him and pumped some O2 into his lungs. That might have fixed him up right then. My bet is everyone was happy that this guy was docile and they didn't want to wake him up. That was the crime if there was one. At a certain point I am starting to think they did not value his life enough but that was long after the take down. Or they had seen this act before from this guy. He was well known in the area to the cops, with 31 previous arrests... Only 22 arrests were for crimes other than selling outlawed cigarettes. Do you happen to know what those crimes were? All misdemeanors. Driving without a license. Possession of a small amount of pot. A very dangerous threat to his community. === I think you'd have to admit that 22 arrests does not exactly make for a model citizen. How many crimes did he commit and did not get caught? Would you want him for a neighbor or hanging out in front of your business? People are supposed to learn from their mistakes. No argument. Just not sure the punishment he received fit the crime. He died resisting arrest. He wasn't being punished. === That's correct but it does raise the interesting question of what would be a suitable punishment for a career street criminal with 31 priors. Clearly a $50 fine and a night in the can is not going to get the job done if the goal is to get him off the street and mend his ways. We aren't going to get there by over-punishing the old ones. We might get there by educating the young ones. It's obvious it isn't happening at home in the inner city environments. More casual interaction with law enforcement when kids are young including programs that put kids and law enforcement together for reasons other than responding to crimes. Sports, school programs, community activities that demonstrate to the kids that the cops are not the enemy. Cops might learn something also. |
Garner Video
On Sat, 6 Dec 2014 04:55:55 -0800 (PST), wrote:
On Friday, December 5, 2014 8:42:59 PM UTC-5, Califbill wrote: "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 12/5/2014 7:14 PM, BAR wrote: In article , says... CNN ran a long video a little while ago that recorded the aftermath of the take down of Garner and the activities of the EMT personnel and movement of him to an ambulance. The video showed the EMT checking him for a pulse. It's not clear what she said but it appears she indicated he had a pulse. As they loaded him on a gurney for transport a bystander asked one of the cops why they didn't perform CPR. The cop answered that Garner was breathing. If this is all true, it sorta changes the whole story about the cop choking him to death. You do know that there was a black female Sargent who was supervising the arrest of Garner. Why wasn't she subject to indictment for allowing a death to occur during her watch? "Pantaleo is the only NYPD member facing possible indictment. Others at the scene, including two sergeants, were offered immunity for their testimony to the grand jury." ...NBC news Seems as if they want to insure bias. You can't swing a dead cat in the last few days without running into a new news story about a white cop shooting a black perp. The media has latched onto this storyline, and they are fanning the flames. Notice that they aren't reporting about white cops shooting white perps, or black cops shooting anyone. The whiners here are doing the same. -- "When your argument has backed a liberal into a corner, expect to be called a racist." |
Garner Video
On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 09:08:59 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 12/6/2014 9:01 AM, Let it snowe wrote: On 12/6/2014 8:10 AM, KC wrote: On 12/6/2014 12:47 AM, wrote: On Fri, 05 Dec 2014 19:49:05 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 12/5/2014 7:28 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Fri, 5 Dec 2014 19:14:43 -0500, BAR wrote: In article , says... CNN ran a long video a little while ago that recorded the aftermath of the take down of Garner and the activities of the EMT personnel and movement of him to an ambulance. The video showed the EMT checking him for a pulse. It's not clear what she said but it appears she indicated he had a pulse. As they loaded him on a gurney for transport a bystander asked one of the cops why they didn't perform CPR. The cop answered that Garner was breathing. If this is all true, it sorta changes the whole story about the cop choking him to death. You do know that there was a black female Sargent who was supervising the arrest of Garner. Why wasn't she subject to indictment for allowing a death to occur during her watch? It does seem like a whole bunch of folks just skipped over that. “Pantaleo is the only NYPD member facing possible indictment. Others at the scene, including two sergeants, were offered immunity for their testimony to the grand jury.” ...NBC news CNN was reporting today that the EMTs are in trouble. I was just passing through but I think I heard them say 2 are suspended and 2 were fired. Considering the death was partially blamed on the position he was held down in and the fact that cops other than Pantaleo were sitting on him. I can see why they didn't indict. Far too much reasonable doubt about any one person causing his death. It does look like EMS could have done a lot more to keep this guy alive. They seemed to think he was not in any particular trouble or they would have AT LEAST put an oxygen mask on him and pumped some O2 into his lungs. That might have fixed him up right then. My bet is everyone was happy that this guy was docile and they didn't want to wake him up. That was the crime if there was one. At a certain point I am starting to think they did not value his life enough but that was long after the take down. Or they had seen this act before from this guy. He was well known in the area to the cops, with 31 previous arrests... Only 22 arrests were for crimes other than selling outlawed cigarettes. Do you happen to know what those crimes were? All misdemeanors. Driving without a license. Possession of a small amount of pot. A very dangerous threat to his community. Which is why the cops spent so much time calmly trying to get the dumb ass to cooperate. -- "When your argument has backed a liberal into a corner, expect to be called a racist." |
Garner Video
On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 09:50:37 -0500, Let it snowe
wrote: On 12/6/2014 9:40 AM, Wayne.B wrote: On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 09:08:59 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 12/6/2014 9:01 AM, Let it snowe wrote: On 12/6/2014 8:10 AM, KC wrote: On 12/6/2014 12:47 AM, wrote: On Fri, 05 Dec 2014 19:49:05 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 12/5/2014 7:28 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Fri, 5 Dec 2014 19:14:43 -0500, BAR wrote: In article , says... CNN ran a long video a little while ago that recorded the aftermath of the take down of Garner and the activities of the EMT personnel and movement of him to an ambulance. The video showed the EMT checking him for a pulse. It's not clear what she said but it appears she indicated he had a pulse. As they loaded him on a gurney for transport a bystander asked one of the cops why they didn't perform CPR. The cop answered that Garner was breathing. If this is all true, it sorta changes the whole story about the cop choking him to death. You do know that there was a black female Sargent who was supervising the arrest of Garner. Why wasn't she subject to indictment for allowing a death to occur during her watch? It does seem like a whole bunch of folks just skipped over that. “Pantaleo is the only NYPD member facing possible indictment. Others at the scene, including two sergeants, were offered immunity for their testimony to the grand jury.” ...NBC news CNN was reporting today that the EMTs are in trouble. I was just passing through but I think I heard them say 2 are suspended and 2 were fired. Considering the death was partially blamed on the position he was held down in and the fact that cops other than Pantaleo were sitting on him. I can see why they didn't indict. Far too much reasonable doubt about any one person causing his death. It does look like EMS could have done a lot more to keep this guy alive. They seemed to think he was not in any particular trouble or they would have AT LEAST put an oxygen mask on him and pumped some O2 into his lungs. That might have fixed him up right then. My bet is everyone was happy that this guy was docile and they didn't want to wake him up. That was the crime if there was one. At a certain point I am starting to think they did not value his life enough but that was long after the take down. Or they had seen this act before from this guy. He was well known in the area to the cops, with 31 previous arrests... Only 22 arrests were for crimes other than selling outlawed cigarettes. Do you happen to know what those crimes were? All misdemeanors. Driving without a license. Possession of a small amount of pot. A very dangerous threat to his community. === I think you'd have to admit that 22 arrests does not exactly make for a model citizen. How many crimes did he commit and did not get caught? Would you want him for a neighbor or hanging out in front of your business? People are supposed to learn from their mistakes. And 9 more arrests for selling cancer sticks. I wouldn't want him in my neighborhood, trying to get me started on that steeenkin habit again. How long have you been smokeless now? I'm going on 15 years. Sure has made a difference in health, not to mention over $40,000 saved. Damn, I may have to get me a couple more guns. -- "When your argument has backed a liberal into a corner, expect to be called a racist." |
Garner Video
On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 12:33:13 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 12/6/2014 9:40 AM, Wayne.B wrote: On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 09:08:59 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 12/6/2014 9:01 AM, Let it snowe wrote: On 12/6/2014 8:10 AM, KC wrote: On 12/6/2014 12:47 AM, wrote: On Fri, 05 Dec 2014 19:49:05 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 12/5/2014 7:28 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Fri, 5 Dec 2014 19:14:43 -0500, BAR wrote: In article , says... CNN ran a long video a little while ago that recorded the aftermath of the take down of Garner and the activities of the EMT personnel and movement of him to an ambulance. The video showed the EMT checking him for a pulse. It's not clear what she said but it appears she indicated he had a pulse. As they loaded him on a gurney for transport a bystander asked one of the cops why they didn't perform CPR. The cop answered that Garner was breathing. If this is all true, it sorta changes the whole story about the cop choking him to death. You do know that there was a black female Sargent who was supervising the arrest of Garner. Why wasn't she subject to indictment for allowing a death to occur during her watch? It does seem like a whole bunch of folks just skipped over that. “Pantaleo is the only NYPD member facing possible indictment. Others at the scene, including two sergeants, were offered immunity for their testimony to the grand jury.” ...NBC news CNN was reporting today that the EMTs are in trouble. I was just passing through but I think I heard them say 2 are suspended and 2 were fired. Considering the death was partially blamed on the position he was held down in and the fact that cops other than Pantaleo were sitting on him. I can see why they didn't indict. Far too much reasonable doubt about any one person causing his death. It does look like EMS could have done a lot more to keep this guy alive. They seemed to think he was not in any particular trouble or they would have AT LEAST put an oxygen mask on him and pumped some O2 into his lungs. That might have fixed him up right then. My bet is everyone was happy that this guy was docile and they didn't want to wake him up. That was the crime if there was one. At a certain point I am starting to think they did not value his life enough but that was long after the take down. Or they had seen this act before from this guy. He was well known in the area to the cops, with 31 previous arrests... Only 22 arrests were for crimes other than selling outlawed cigarettes. Do you happen to know what those crimes were? All misdemeanors. Driving without a license. Possession of a small amount of pot. A very dangerous threat to his community. === I think you'd have to admit that 22 arrests does not exactly make for a model citizen. How many crimes did he commit and did not get caught? Would you want him for a neighbor or hanging out in front of your business? People are supposed to learn from their mistakes. No argument. Just not sure the punishment he received fit the crime. He was taken down - without any unnecessary roughness. His death occurred well after the 'choke hold' was released. He punished himself. -- "When your argument has backed a liberal into a corner, expect to be called a racist." |
Garner Video
On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 13:59:07 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 12/6/2014 1:43 PM, Wayne.B wrote: On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 13:03:54 -0500, Let it snowe wrote: On 12/6/2014 12:33 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 12/6/2014 9:40 AM, Wayne.B wrote: On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 09:08:59 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 12/6/2014 9:01 AM, Let it snowe wrote: On 12/6/2014 8:10 AM, KC wrote: On 12/6/2014 12:47 AM, wrote: On Fri, 05 Dec 2014 19:49:05 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 12/5/2014 7:28 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Fri, 5 Dec 2014 19:14:43 -0500, BAR wrote: In article , says... CNN ran a long video a little while ago that recorded the aftermath of the take down of Garner and the activities of the EMT personnel and movement of him to an ambulance. The video showed the EMT checking him for a pulse. It's not clear what she said but it appears she indicated he had a pulse. As they loaded him on a gurney for transport a bystander asked one of the cops why they didn't perform CPR. The cop answered that Garner was breathing. If this is all true, it sorta changes the whole story about the cop choking him to death. You do know that there was a black female Sargent who was supervising the arrest of Garner. Why wasn't she subject to indictment for allowing a death to occur during her watch? It does seem like a whole bunch of folks just skipped over that. “Pantaleo is the only NYPD member facing possible indictment. Others at the scene, including two sergeants, were offered immunity for their testimony to the grand jury.” ...NBC news CNN was reporting today that the EMTs are in trouble. I was just passing through but I think I heard them say 2 are suspended and 2 were fired. Considering the death was partially blamed on the position he was held down in and the fact that cops other than Pantaleo were sitting on him. I can see why they didn't indict. Far too much reasonable doubt about any one person causing his death. It does look like EMS could have done a lot more to keep this guy alive. They seemed to think he was not in any particular trouble or they would have AT LEAST put an oxygen mask on him and pumped some O2 into his lungs. That might have fixed him up right then. My bet is everyone was happy that this guy was docile and they didn't want to wake him up. That was the crime if there was one. At a certain point I am starting to think they did not value his life enough but that was long after the take down. Or they had seen this act before from this guy. He was well known in the area to the cops, with 31 previous arrests... Only 22 arrests were for crimes other than selling outlawed cigarettes. Do you happen to know what those crimes were? All misdemeanors. Driving without a license. Possession of a small amount of pot. A very dangerous threat to his community. === I think you'd have to admit that 22 arrests does not exactly make for a model citizen. How many crimes did he commit and did not get caught? Would you want him for a neighbor or hanging out in front of your business? People are supposed to learn from their mistakes. No argument. Just not sure the punishment he received fit the crime. He died resisting arrest. He wasn't being punished. === That's correct but it does raise the interesting question of what would be a suitable punishment for a career street criminal with 31 priors. Clearly a $50 fine and a night in the can is not going to get the job done if the goal is to get him off the street and mend his ways. We aren't going to get there by over-punishing the old ones. We might get there by educating the young ones. Yippee! Education! Well said, Luddite. Another 'liberal' has seen the light. First they need to be convinced that the status quo is no way to go. It's obvious it isn't happening at home in the inner city environments. More casual interaction with law enforcement when kids are young including programs that put kids and law enforcement together for reasons other than responding to crimes. Sports, school programs, community activities that demonstrate to the kids that the cops are not the enemy. Cops might learn something also. -- "When your argument has backed a liberal into a corner, expect to be called a racist." |
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