Garner Video
 

On 12/6/2014 9:57 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 09:27:39 -0500, Let it snowe
wrote:

I am torn between applauding New York
for being so progressive in their approach to crime prevention, and
condemning them for being overly nannyish.

===

I share the same sentiment but the two activities are unrelated.
There's no question that NYC has made huge progress on controling
crime. I moved there in the late 60s when things were totally out of
control and there has been a huge improvement since then. Arresting a
guy for selling untaxed cigarettes may seem petty but the reality is
that he was a street hustler looking to make a buck anyway he could.


Over time they found that taking out the little crims inevitably got a
lot of big crims too. Seems a lot of big crims do little crimes in
between big jobs.... Either way, this is the kind of progress this admin
and the anarchists want to stop.. Can't "represent" the people if they
are no longer oppressed....

Garner Video
 

On 12/6/2014 10:54 AM, KC wrote:
On 12/6/2014 9:27 AM, Let it snowe wrote:
On 12/6/2014 9:08 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/6/2014 9:01 AM, Let it snowe wrote:
On 12/6/2014 8:10 AM, KC wrote:
On 12/6/2014 12:47 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 05 Dec 2014 19:49:05 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"

wrote:

On 12/5/2014 7:28 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 5 Dec 2014 19:14:43 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

CNN ran a long video a little while ago that recorded the
aftermath of
the take down of Garner and the activities of the EMT personnel
and
movement of him to an ambulance.

The video showed the EMT checking him for a pulse. It's not
clear
what
she said but it appears she indicated he had a pulse.

As they loaded him on a gurney for transport a bystander asked
one of
the cops why they didn't perform CPR. The cop answered that
Garner was
breathing.

If this is all true, it sorta changes the whole story about the
cop
choking him to death.

You do know that there was a black female Sargent who was
supervising
the arrest of Garner. Why wasn't she subject to indictment for
allowing
a death to occur during her watch?

It does seem like a whole bunch of folks just skipped over that.



“Pantaleo is the only NYPD member facing possible indictment.
Others at
the scene, including two sergeants, were offered immunity for their
testimony to the grand jury.�

...NBC news

CNN was reporting today that the EMTs are in trouble. I was just
passing through but I think I heard them say 2 are suspended and 2
were fired.
Considering the death was partially blamed on the position he was
held
down in and the fact that cops other than Pantaleo were sitting on
him. I can see why they didn't indict.
Far too much reasonable doubt about any one person causing his death.
It does look like EMS could have done a lot more to keep this guy
alive. They seemed to think he was not in any particular trouble or
they would have AT LEAST put an oxygen mask on him and pumped some O2
into his lungs. That might have fixed him up right then.
My bet is everyone was happy that this guy was docile and they didn't
want to wake him up. That was the crime if there was one.

At a certain point I am starting to think they did not value his life
enough but that was long after the take down.


Or they had seen this act before from this guy. He was well known in
the
area to the cops, with 31 previous arrests...

Only 22 arrests were for crimes other than selling outlawed cigarettes.
Do you happen to know what those crimes were?


All misdemeanors. Driving without a license. Possession of a small
amount of pot.

A very dangerous threat to his community.

The city of New Yawk thinks thinks selling cigarettes without a city tax
stamp is a very serious crime. It also thinks diverting police resources
to go after these petty criminals is preventing said crims from moving
into larger criminal enterprises. I am torn between applauding New York
for being so progressive in their approach to crime prevention, and
condemning them for being overly nannyish.

It's all part of a well proven policy of taking out the little crims,
turns out a lot of them are the ones doing big stuff too... That's what
a lot of this "protest" is about is getting rid of policies like this
and stop and frisk that saved lives and property and made Ny in
particular, a livable place, unlike Chicago or Detroit...

PS: You remember when they tried to ban soda pop, don't you?

That is like apples and oranges...


What is?

Garner Video
 

On 12/6/2014 9:40 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 09:08:59 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/6/2014 9:01 AM, Let it snowe wrote:
On 12/6/2014 8:10 AM, KC wrote:
On 12/6/2014 12:47 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 05 Dec 2014 19:49:05 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/5/2014 7:28 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 5 Dec 2014 19:14:43 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

CNN ran a long video a little while ago that recorded the
aftermath of
the take down of Garner and the activities of the EMT personnel and
movement of him to an ambulance.

The video showed the EMT checking him for a pulse. It's not clear
what
she said but it appears she indicated he had a pulse.

As they loaded him on a gurney for transport a bystander asked
one of
the cops why they didn't perform CPR. The cop answered that
Garner was
breathing.

If this is all true, it sorta changes the whole story about the cop
choking him to death.

You do know that there was a black female Sargent who was supervising
the arrest of Garner. Why wasn't she subject to indictment for
allowing
a death to occur during her watch?

It does seem like a whole bunch of folks just skipped over that.



“Pantaleo is the only NYPD member facing possible indictment. Others at
the scene, including two sergeants, were offered immunity for their
testimony to the grand jury.”

...NBC news

CNN was reporting today that the EMTs are in trouble. I was just
passing through but I think I heard them say 2 are suspended and 2
were fired.
Considering the death was partially blamed on the position he was held
down in and the fact that cops other than Pantaleo were sitting on
him. I can see why they didn't indict.
Far too much reasonable doubt about any one person causing his death.
It does look like EMS could have done a lot more to keep this guy
alive. They seemed to think he was not in any particular trouble or
they would have AT LEAST put an oxygen mask on him and pumped some O2
into his lungs. That might have fixed him up right then.
My bet is everyone was happy that this guy was docile and they didn't
want to wake him up. That was the crime if there was one.

At a certain point I am starting to think they did not value his life
enough but that was long after the take down.


Or they had seen this act before from this guy. He was well known in the
area to the cops, with 31 previous arrests...

Only 22 arrests were for crimes other than selling outlawed cigarettes.
Do you happen to know what those crimes were?


All misdemeanors. Driving without a license. Possession of a small
amount of pot.

A very dangerous threat to his community.

===

I think you'd have to admit that 22 arrests does not exactly make for
a model citizen. How many crimes did he commit and did not get
caught? Would you want him for a neighbor or hanging out in front of
your business? People are supposed to learn from their mistakes.


Before we get too into the types of crimes I will remind you all that my
point is they may have seen this kind of "passive resist" from this guy
before. According to what I heard, they all knew him well in the area,
including the cops.... What if it turns out he pulls away and cries "I
can't breathe" every time they try to take him in or talk to him?

Garner Video
 

On 12/6/2014 7:55 AM, wrote:
On Friday, December 5, 2014 8:42:59 PM UTC-5, Califbill wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 12/5/2014 7:14 PM, BAR wrote:
In article ,
says...

CNN ran a long video a little while ago that recorded the aftermath of
the take down of Garner and the activities of the EMT personnel and
movement of him to an ambulance.

The video showed the EMT checking him for a pulse. It's not clear what
she said but it appears she indicated he had a pulse.

As they loaded him on a gurney for transport a bystander asked one of
the cops why they didn't perform CPR. The cop answered that Garner was
breathing.

If this is all true, it sorta changes the whole story about the cop
choking him to death.

You do know that there was a black female Sargent who was supervising
the arrest of Garner. Why wasn't she subject to indictment for allowing
a death to occur during her watch?



"Pantaleo is the only NYPD member facing possible indictment. Others at
the scene, including two sergeants, were offered immunity for their
testimony to the grand jury."

...NBC news

Seems as if they want to insure bias.

You can't swing a dead cat in the last few days without running into a new news story about a white cop shooting a black perp. The media has latched onto this storyline, and they are fanning the flames. Notice that they aren't reporting about white cops shooting white perps, or black cops shooting anyone.


Or the four black guys who kidnapped and killed a white cop last week...

Garner Video
 

On 12/6/2014 10:59 AM, Let it snowe wrote:
On 12/6/2014 10:54 AM, KC wrote:
On 12/6/2014 9:27 AM, Let it snowe wrote:
On 12/6/2014 9:08 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/6/2014 9:01 AM, Let it snowe wrote:
On 12/6/2014 8:10 AM, KC wrote:
On 12/6/2014 12:47 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 05 Dec 2014 19:49:05 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"

wrote:

On 12/5/2014 7:28 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 5 Dec 2014 19:14:43 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

CNN ran a long video a little while ago that recorded the
aftermath of
the take down of Garner and the activities of the EMT personnel
and
movement of him to an ambulance.

The video showed the EMT checking him for a pulse. It's not
clear
what
she said but it appears she indicated he had a pulse.

As they loaded him on a gurney for transport a bystander asked
one of
the cops why they didn't perform CPR. The cop answered that
Garner was
breathing.

If this is all true, it sorta changes the whole story about the
cop
choking him to death.

You do know that there was a black female Sargent who was
supervising
the arrest of Garner. Why wasn't she subject to indictment for
allowing
a death to occur during her watch?

It does seem like a whole bunch of folks just skipped over that.



“Pantaleo is the only NYPD member facing possible indictment.
Others at
the scene, including two sergeants, were offered immunity for their
testimony to the grand jury.�

...NBC news

CNN was reporting today that the EMTs are in trouble. I was just
passing through but I think I heard them say 2 are suspended and 2
were fired.
Considering the death was partially blamed on the position he was
held
down in and the fact that cops other than Pantaleo were sitting on
him. I can see why they didn't indict.
Far too much reasonable doubt about any one person causing his
death.
It does look like EMS could have done a lot more to keep this guy
alive. They seemed to think he was not in any particular trouble or
they would have AT LEAST put an oxygen mask on him and pumped
some O2
into his lungs. That might have fixed him up right then.
My bet is everyone was happy that this guy was docile and they
didn't
want to wake him up. That was the crime if there was one.

At a certain point I am starting to think they did not value his
life
enough but that was long after the take down.


Or they had seen this act before from this guy. He was well known in
the
area to the cops, with 31 previous arrests...

Only 22 arrests were for crimes other than selling outlawed
cigarettes.
Do you happen to know what those crimes were?


All misdemeanors. Driving without a license. Possession of a small
amount of pot.

A very dangerous threat to his community.

The city of New Yawk thinks thinks selling cigarettes without a city tax
stamp is a very serious crime. It also thinks diverting police resources
to go after these petty criminals is preventing said crims from moving
into larger criminal enterprises. I am torn between applauding New York
for being so progressive in their approach to crime prevention, and
condemning them for being overly nannyish.

It's all part of a well proven policy of taking out the little crims,
turns out a lot of them are the ones doing big stuff too... That's what
a lot of this "protest" is about is getting rid of policies like this
and stop and frisk that saved lives and property and made Ny in
particular, a livable place, unlike Chicago or Detroit...

PS: You remember when they tried to ban soda pop, don't you?

That is like apples and oranges...


What is?

Banning soda, and the loose cig thing.

Garner Video
 

On 12/6/2014 11:08 AM, KC wrote:
On 12/6/2014 10:59 AM, Let it snowe wrote:
On 12/6/2014 10:54 AM, KC wrote:
On 12/6/2014 9:27 AM, Let it snowe wrote:
On 12/6/2014 9:08 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/6/2014 9:01 AM, Let it snowe wrote:
On 12/6/2014 8:10 AM, KC wrote:
On 12/6/2014 12:47 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 05 Dec 2014 19:49:05 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"

wrote:

On 12/5/2014 7:28 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 5 Dec 2014 19:14:43 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

CNN ran a long video a little while ago that recorded the
aftermath of
the take down of Garner and the activities of the EMT personnel
and
movement of him to an ambulance.

The video showed the EMT checking him for a pulse. It's not
clear
what
she said but it appears she indicated he had a pulse.

As they loaded him on a gurney for transport a bystander asked
one of
the cops why they didn't perform CPR. The cop answered that
Garner was
breathing.

If this is all true, it sorta changes the whole story about the
cop
choking him to death.

You do know that there was a black female Sargent who was
supervising
the arrest of Garner. Why wasn't she subject to indictment for
allowing
a death to occur during her watch?

It does seem like a whole bunch of folks just skipped over that.



“Pantaleo is the only NYPD member facing possible indictment.
Others at
the scene, including two sergeants, were offered immunity for
their
testimony to the grand jury.�

...NBC news

CNN was reporting today that the EMTs are in trouble. I was just
passing through but I think I heard them say 2 are suspended and 2
were fired.
Considering the death was partially blamed on the position he was
held
down in and the fact that cops other than Pantaleo were sitting on
him. I can see why they didn't indict.
Far too much reasonable doubt about any one person causing his
death.
It does look like EMS could have done a lot more to keep this guy
alive. They seemed to think he was not in any particular trouble or
they would have AT LEAST put an oxygen mask on him and pumped
some O2
into his lungs. That might have fixed him up right then.
My bet is everyone was happy that this guy was docile and they
didn't
want to wake him up. That was the crime if there was one.

At a certain point I am starting to think they did not value his
life
enough but that was long after the take down.


Or they had seen this act before from this guy. He was well known in
the
area to the cops, with 31 previous arrests...

Only 22 arrests were for crimes other than selling outlawed
cigarettes.
Do you happen to know what those crimes were?


All misdemeanors. Driving without a license. Possession of a small
amount of pot.

A very dangerous threat to his community.

The city of New Yawk thinks thinks selling cigarettes without a city
tax
stamp is a very serious crime. It also thinks diverting police
resources
to go after these petty criminals is preventing said crims from moving
into larger criminal enterprises. I am torn between applauding New York
for being so progressive in their approach to crime prevention, and
condemning them for being overly nannyish.

It's all part of a well proven policy of taking out the little crims,
turns out a lot of them are the ones doing big stuff too... That's what
a lot of this "protest" is about is getting rid of policies like this
and stop and frisk that saved lives and property and made Ny in
particular, a livable place, unlike Chicago or Detroit...

PS: You remember when they tried to ban soda pop, don't you?

That is like apples and oranges...


What is?

Banning soda, and the loose cig thing.

You imply that I was trying to draw a comparison.

Garner Video
 

On 12/6/2014 9:40 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 09:08:59 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/6/2014 9:01 AM, Let it snowe wrote:
On 12/6/2014 8:10 AM, KC wrote:
On 12/6/2014 12:47 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 05 Dec 2014 19:49:05 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/5/2014 7:28 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 5 Dec 2014 19:14:43 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

CNN ran a long video a little while ago that recorded the
aftermath of
the take down of Garner and the activities of the EMT personnel and
movement of him to an ambulance.

The video showed the EMT checking him for a pulse. It's not clear
what
she said but it appears she indicated he had a pulse.

As they loaded him on a gurney for transport a bystander asked
one of
the cops why they didn't perform CPR. The cop answered that
Garner was
breathing.

If this is all true, it sorta changes the whole story about the cop
choking him to death.

You do know that there was a black female Sargent who was supervising
the arrest of Garner. Why wasn't she subject to indictment for
allowing
a death to occur during her watch?

It does seem like a whole bunch of folks just skipped over that.



“Pantaleo is the only NYPD member facing possible indictment. Others at
the scene, including two sergeants, were offered immunity for their
testimony to the grand jury.”

...NBC news

CNN was reporting today that the EMTs are in trouble. I was just
passing through but I think I heard them say 2 are suspended and 2
were fired.
Considering the death was partially blamed on the position he was held
down in and the fact that cops other than Pantaleo were sitting on
him. I can see why they didn't indict.
Far too much reasonable doubt about any one person causing his death.
It does look like EMS could have done a lot more to keep this guy
alive. They seemed to think he was not in any particular trouble or
they would have AT LEAST put an oxygen mask on him and pumped some O2
into his lungs. That might have fixed him up right then.
My bet is everyone was happy that this guy was docile and they didn't
want to wake him up. That was the crime if there was one.

At a certain point I am starting to think they did not value his life
enough but that was long after the take down.


Or they had seen this act before from this guy. He was well known in the
area to the cops, with 31 previous arrests...

Only 22 arrests were for crimes other than selling outlawed cigarettes.
Do you happen to know what those crimes were?


All misdemeanors. Driving without a license. Possession of a small
amount of pot.

A very dangerous threat to his community.

===

I think you'd have to admit that 22 arrests does not exactly make for
a model citizen. How many crimes did he commit and did not get
caught? Would you want him for a neighbor or hanging out in front of
your business? People are supposed to learn from their mistakes.



No argument. Just not sure the punishment he received fit the crime.

Garner Video
 

On 12/6/2014 11:16 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 09:08:59 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:



All misdemeanors. Driving without a license. Possession of a small
amount of pot.

A very dangerous threat to his community.

The New York policy of cracking down on misdemeanors has been very
effective in preventing felonies. That is easily demonstrated in the
last decade's crime statistics.

As for the arrest, if a cop stops you for any minor offence, say a
seat belt violation and you refuse to sign the ticket, you are going
off in cuffs ... or getting shot. (like the guy everyone seems to be
ignoring)

I am the first to say the cops can be out of line but we seem to be
hung up on the wrong ones.



I don't know what was more effective in New York, chasing after the
little crimes (Broken Window) or the stop and frisk policy. If I had to
guess I would think the latter.

Garner Video
 

On 12/6/2014 12:33 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/6/2014 9:40 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 09:08:59 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/6/2014 9:01 AM, Let it snowe wrote:
On 12/6/2014 8:10 AM, KC wrote:
On 12/6/2014 12:47 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 05 Dec 2014 19:49:05 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"

wrote:

On 12/5/2014 7:28 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 5 Dec 2014 19:14:43 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

CNN ran a long video a little while ago that recorded the
aftermath of
the take down of Garner and the activities of the EMT
personnel and
movement of him to an ambulance.

The video showed the EMT checking him for a pulse. It's not
clear
what
she said but it appears she indicated he had a pulse.

As they loaded him on a gurney for transport a bystander asked
one of
the cops why they didn't perform CPR. The cop answered that
Garner was
breathing.

If this is all true, it sorta changes the whole story about
the cop
choking him to death.

You do know that there was a black female Sargent who was
supervising
the arrest of Garner. Why wasn't she subject to indictment for
allowing
a death to occur during her watch?

It does seem like a whole bunch of folks just skipped over that.



“Pantaleo is the only NYPD member facing possible indictment.
Others at
the scene, including two sergeants, were offered immunity for their
testimony to the grand jury.”

...NBC news

CNN was reporting today that the EMTs are in trouble. I was just
passing through but I think I heard them say 2 are suspended and 2
were fired.
Considering the death was partially blamed on the position he was
held
down in and the fact that cops other than Pantaleo were sitting on
him. I can see why they didn't indict.
Far too much reasonable doubt about any one person causing his death.
It does look like EMS could have done a lot more to keep this guy
alive. They seemed to think he was not in any particular trouble or
they would have AT LEAST put an oxygen mask on him and pumped some O2
into his lungs. That might have fixed him up right then.
My bet is everyone was happy that this guy was docile and they didn't
want to wake him up. That was the crime if there was one.

At a certain point I am starting to think they did not value his life
enough but that was long after the take down.


Or they had seen this act before from this guy. He was well known
in the
area to the cops, with 31 previous arrests...

Only 22 arrests were for crimes other than selling outlawed cigarettes.
Do you happen to know what those crimes were?


All misdemeanors. Driving without a license. Possession of a small
amount of pot.

A very dangerous threat to his community.

===

I think you'd have to admit that 22 arrests does not exactly make for
a model citizen. How many crimes did he commit and did not get
caught? Would you want him for a neighbor or hanging out in front of
your business? People are supposed to learn from their mistakes.



No argument. Just not sure the punishment he received fit the crime.



He died resisting arrest. He wasn't being punished.

Garner Video
 

"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 12/6/2014 11:16 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 09:08:59 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:



All misdemeanors. Driving without a license. Possession of a small
amount of pot.

A very dangerous threat to his community.

The New York policy of cracking down on misdemeanors has been very
effective in preventing felonies. That is easily demonstrated in the
last decade's crime statistics.

As for the arrest, if a cop stops you for any minor offence, say a
seat belt violation and you refuse to sign the ticket, you are going
off in cuffs ... or getting shot. (like the guy everyone seems to be
ignoring)

I am the first to say the cops can be out of line but we seem to be
hung up on the wrong ones.



I don't know what was more effective in New York, chasing after the
little crimes (Broken Window) or the stop and frisk policy. If I had to
guess I would think the latter.

I wonder if the ultra violence cops commit against unarmed civilians has
any impact on violence in our society generally. As in, have a
disagreement? Shoot 'em.
--
Sent from my iPhone 6+