Garner Video
 

CNN ran a long video a little while ago that recorded the aftermath of
the take down of Garner and the activities of the EMT personnel and
movement of him to an ambulance.

The video showed the EMT checking him for a pulse. It's not clear what
she said but it appears she indicated he had a pulse.

As they loaded him on a gurney for transport a bystander asked one of
the cops why they didn't perform CPR. The cop answered that Garner was
breathing.

If this is all true, it sorta changes the whole story about the cop
choking him to death.

Garner Video
 

On Thu, 04 Dec 2014 13:15:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


CNN ran a long video a little while ago that recorded the aftermath of
the take down of Garner and the activities of the EMT personnel and
movement of him to an ambulance.

The video showed the EMT checking him for a pulse. It's not clear what
she said but it appears she indicated he had a pulse.

As they loaded him on a gurney for transport a bystander asked one of
the cops why they didn't perform CPR. The cop answered that Garner was
breathing.

If this is all true, it sorta changes the whole story about the cop
choking him to death.

He had to be breathing to be able to say, "I can't breathe" over and
over.
--

"The modern definition of 'racist' is someone who's winning an argument
with a liberal."

....Peter Brimelow (Author)
(Thanks, Luddite!)

Garner Video
 

On 12/4/2014 11:42 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 04 Dec 2014 13:15:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


CNN ran a long video a little while ago that recorded the aftermath of
the take down of Garner and the activities of the EMT personnel and
movement of him to an ambulance.

The video showed the EMT checking him for a pulse. It's not clear what
she said but it appears she indicated he had a pulse.

As they loaded him on a gurney for transport a bystander asked one of
the cops why they didn't perform CPR. The cop answered that Garner was
breathing.

If this is all true, it sorta changes the whole story about the cop
choking him to death.

I think there is an echo in here ;-)
The talking heads at CNN are still saying they choked this guy to
death even after their FBI guy said it was not a choke hold and they
had a reference to the ME report saying his wind pipe was not damaged.
I think it was just the stress of the struggle that locked up his
heart.. I can understand that he *might* have survived if they
immediately sat him up and removed the cuffs, maybe cuffing him in
front but that is not procedure.

I was surprised that the EMTs did not get him on an oxygen push right
away. The EMTs in this case were probably not licensed to administer
meds.
Maybe the quality of the EMTs need to be looked at too.

Judy says that oxygen bag is SOP when our EMS shows up on the golf
course. I guess they assume heart attack right away.
She also has those zapper machines and most of the people on the staff
are trained to use them, certainly all of the starters and rangers.
The rangers carry them in their carts.



Another thing nobody is talking about is these cops might have seen this
act from this guy before. Apparently some of them knew him well, he had
been arrested 31 times up until that night...

Garner Video
 

On Thu, 04 Dec 2014 23:42:04 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 04 Dec 2014 13:15:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


CNN ran a long video a little while ago that recorded the aftermath of
the take down of Garner and the activities of the EMT personnel and
movement of him to an ambulance.

The video showed the EMT checking him for a pulse. It's not clear what
she said but it appears she indicated he had a pulse.

As they loaded him on a gurney for transport a bystander asked one of
the cops why they didn't perform CPR. The cop answered that Garner was
breathing.

If this is all true, it sorta changes the whole story about the cop
choking him to death.

I think there is an echo in here ;-)
The talking heads at CNN are still saying they choked this guy to
death even after their FBI guy said it was not a choke hold and they
had a reference to the ME report saying his wind pipe was not damaged.
I think it was just the stress of the struggle that locked up his
heart.. I can understand that he *might* have survived if they
immediately sat him up and removed the cuffs, maybe cuffing him in
front but that is not procedure.

I was surprised that the EMTs did not get him on an oxygen push right
away. The EMTs in this case were probably not licensed to administer
meds.
Maybe the quality of the EMTs need to be looked at too.

Judy says that oxygen bag is SOP when our EMS shows up on the golf
course. I guess they assume heart attack right away.
She also has those zapper machines and most of the people on the staff
are trained to use them, certainly all of the starters and rangers.
The rangers carry them in their carts.

My local course also has one on a post right in the middle of the
course. Don't know if it's ever been used, but it gets checked weekly.
--

"The modern definition of 'racist' is someone who's winning an argument
with a liberal."

....Peter Brimelow (Author)
(Thanks, Luddite!)

Garner Video
 

On Fri, 5 Dec 2014 19:14:43 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

CNN ran a long video a little while ago that recorded the aftermath of
the take down of Garner and the activities of the EMT personnel and
movement of him to an ambulance.

The video showed the EMT checking him for a pulse. It's not clear what
she said but it appears she indicated he had a pulse.

As they loaded him on a gurney for transport a bystander asked one of
the cops why they didn't perform CPR. The cop answered that Garner was
breathing.

If this is all true, it sorta changes the whole story about the cop
choking him to death.

You do know that there was a black female Sargent who was supervising
the arrest of Garner. Why wasn't she subject to indictment for allowing
a death to occur during her watch?

It does seem like a whole bunch of folks just skipped over that.
--

"When your argument has backed a liberal into a corner,
expect to be called a racist."

Garner Video
 

On 12/5/2014 7:28 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 5 Dec 2014 19:14:43 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

CNN ran a long video a little while ago that recorded the aftermath of
the take down of Garner and the activities of the EMT personnel and
movement of him to an ambulance.

The video showed the EMT checking him for a pulse. It's not clear what
she said but it appears she indicated he had a pulse.

As they loaded him on a gurney for transport a bystander asked one of
the cops why they didn't perform CPR. The cop answered that Garner was
breathing.

If this is all true, it sorta changes the whole story about the cop
choking him to death.

You do know that there was a black female Sargent who was supervising
the arrest of Garner. Why wasn't she subject to indictment for allowing
a death to occur during her watch?

It does seem like a whole bunch of folks just skipped over that.



“Pantaleo is the only NYPD member facing possible indictment. Others at
the scene, including two sergeants, were offered immunity for their
testimony to the grand jury.”

....NBC news

Garner Video
 

On 12/5/2014 7:14 PM, BAR wrote:
In article ,
says...

CNN ran a long video a little while ago that recorded the aftermath of
the take down of Garner and the activities of the EMT personnel and
movement of him to an ambulance.

The video showed the EMT checking him for a pulse. It's not clear what
she said but it appears she indicated he had a pulse.

As they loaded him on a gurney for transport a bystander asked one of
the cops why they didn't perform CPR. The cop answered that Garner was
breathing.

If this is all true, it sorta changes the whole story about the cop
choking him to death.

You do know that there was a black female Sargent who was supervising
the arrest of Garner. Why wasn't she subject to indictment for allowing
a death to occur during her watch?



“Pantaleo is the only NYPD member facing possible indictment. Others at
the scene, including two sergeants, were offered immunity for their
testimony to the grand jury.”

....NBC news

Garner Video
 

"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 12/5/2014 7:14 PM, BAR wrote:
In article ,
says...

CNN ran a long video a little while ago that recorded the aftermath of
the take down of Garner and the activities of the EMT personnel and
movement of him to an ambulance.

The video showed the EMT checking him for a pulse. It's not clear what
she said but it appears she indicated he had a pulse.

As they loaded him on a gurney for transport a bystander asked one of
the cops why they didn't perform CPR. The cop answered that Garner was
breathing.

If this is all true, it sorta changes the whole story about the cop
choking him to death.

You do know that there was a black female Sargent who was supervising
the arrest of Garner. Why wasn't she subject to indictment for allowing
a death to occur during her watch?



“Pantaleo is the only NYPD member facing possible indictment. Others at
the scene, including two sergeants, were offered immunity for their
testimony to the grand jury.�

...NBC news

Seems as if they want to insure bias.

Garner Video
 

On Friday, December 5, 2014 8:42:59 PM UTC-5, Califbill wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 12/5/2014 7:14 PM, BAR wrote:
In article ,
says...

CNN ran a long video a little while ago that recorded the aftermath of
the take down of Garner and the activities of the EMT personnel and
movement of him to an ambulance.

The video showed the EMT checking him for a pulse. It's not clear what
she said but it appears she indicated he had a pulse.

As they loaded him on a gurney for transport a bystander asked one of
the cops why they didn't perform CPR. The cop answered that Garner was
breathing.

If this is all true, it sorta changes the whole story about the cop
choking him to death.

You do know that there was a black female Sargent who was supervising
the arrest of Garner. Why wasn't she subject to indictment for allowing
a death to occur during her watch?



"Pantaleo is the only NYPD member facing possible indictment. Others at
the scene, including two sergeants, were offered immunity for their
testimony to the grand jury."

...NBC news

Seems as if they want to insure bias.

You can't swing a dead cat in the last few days without running into a new news story about a white cop shooting a black perp. The media has latched onto this storyline, and they are fanning the flames. Notice that they aren't reporting about white cops shooting white perps, or black cops shooting anyone.

Garner Video
 

On 12/6/2014 12:47 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 05 Dec 2014 19:49:05 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/5/2014 7:28 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 5 Dec 2014 19:14:43 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

CNN ran a long video a little while ago that recorded the aftermath of
the take down of Garner and the activities of the EMT personnel and
movement of him to an ambulance.

The video showed the EMT checking him for a pulse. It's not clear what
she said but it appears she indicated he had a pulse.

As they loaded him on a gurney for transport a bystander asked one of
the cops why they didn't perform CPR. The cop answered that Garner was
breathing.

If this is all true, it sorta changes the whole story about the cop
choking him to death.

You do know that there was a black female Sargent who was supervising
the arrest of Garner. Why wasn't she subject to indictment for allowing
a death to occur during her watch?

It does seem like a whole bunch of folks just skipped over that.



“Pantaleo is the only NYPD member facing possible indictment. Others at
the scene, including two sergeants, were offered immunity for their
testimony to the grand jury.�

...NBC news

CNN was reporting today that the EMTs are in trouble. I was just
passing through but I think I heard them say 2 are suspended and 2
were fired.
Considering the death was partially blamed on the position he was held
down in and the fact that cops other than Pantaleo were sitting on
him. I can see why they didn't indict.
Far too much reasonable doubt about any one person causing his death.
It does look like EMS could have done a lot more to keep this guy
alive. They seemed to think he was not in any particular trouble or
they would have AT LEAST put an oxygen mask on him and pumped some O2
into his lungs. That might have fixed him up right then.
My bet is everyone was happy that this guy was docile and they didn't
want to wake him up. That was the crime if there was one.

At a certain point I am starting to think they did not value his life
enough but that was long after the take down.


Or they had seen this act before from this guy. He was well known in the
area to the cops, with 31 previous arrests...

Garner Video
 

On 12/6/14 8:10 AM, KC wrote:
On 12/6/2014 12:47 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 05 Dec 2014 19:49:05 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/5/2014 7:28 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 5 Dec 2014 19:14:43 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

CNN ran a long video a little while ago that recorded the
aftermath of
the take down of Garner and the activities of the EMT personnel and
movement of him to an ambulance.

The video showed the EMT checking him for a pulse. It's not clear
what
she said but it appears she indicated he had a pulse.

As they loaded him on a gurney for transport a bystander asked one of
the cops why they didn't perform CPR. The cop answered that
Garner was
breathing.

If this is all true, it sorta changes the whole story about the cop
choking him to death.

You do know that there was a black female Sargent who was supervising
the arrest of Garner. Why wasn't she subject to indictment for
allowing
a death to occur during her watch?

It does seem like a whole bunch of folks just skipped over that.



“Pantaleo is the only NYPD member facing possible indictment. Others at
the scene, including two sergeants, were offered immunity for their
testimony to the grand jury.�

...NBC news

CNN was reporting today that the EMTs are in trouble. I was just
passing through but I think I heard them say 2 are suspended and 2
were fired.
Considering the death was partially blamed on the position he was held
down in and the fact that cops other than Pantaleo were sitting on
him. I can see why they didn't indict.
Far too much reasonable doubt about any one person causing his death.
It does look like EMS could have done a lot more to keep this guy
alive. They seemed to think he was not in any particular trouble or
they would have AT LEAST put an oxygen mask on him and pumped some O2
into his lungs. That might have fixed him up right then.
My bet is everyone was happy that this guy was docile and they didn't
want to wake him up. That was the crime if there was one.

At a certain point I am starting to think they did not value his life
enough but that was long after the take down.


Or they had seen this act before from this guy. He was well known in the
area to the cops, with 31 previous arrests...


Sorta like you, eh?

--
I feel no need to explain my politics to stupid right-wingers.
After all, I am *not* the Jackass Whisperer.

Garner Video
 

On 12/6/2014 8:10 AM, KC wrote:
On 12/6/2014 12:47 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 05 Dec 2014 19:49:05 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/5/2014 7:28 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 5 Dec 2014 19:14:43 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

CNN ran a long video a little while ago that recorded the
aftermath of
the take down of Garner and the activities of the EMT personnel and
movement of him to an ambulance.

The video showed the EMT checking him for a pulse. It's not clear
what
she said but it appears she indicated he had a pulse.

As they loaded him on a gurney for transport a bystander asked one of
the cops why they didn't perform CPR. The cop answered that
Garner was
breathing.

If this is all true, it sorta changes the whole story about the cop
choking him to death.

You do know that there was a black female Sargent who was supervising
the arrest of Garner. Why wasn't she subject to indictment for
allowing
a death to occur during her watch?

It does seem like a whole bunch of folks just skipped over that.



“Pantaleo is the only NYPD member facing possible indictment. Others at
the scene, including two sergeants, were offered immunity for their
testimony to the grand jury.�

...NBC news

CNN was reporting today that the EMTs are in trouble. I was just
passing through but I think I heard them say 2 are suspended and 2
were fired.
Considering the death was partially blamed on the position he was held
down in and the fact that cops other than Pantaleo were sitting on
him. I can see why they didn't indict.
Far too much reasonable doubt about any one person causing his death.
It does look like EMS could have done a lot more to keep this guy
alive. They seemed to think he was not in any particular trouble or
they would have AT LEAST put an oxygen mask on him and pumped some O2
into his lungs. That might have fixed him up right then.
My bet is everyone was happy that this guy was docile and they didn't
want to wake him up. That was the crime if there was one.

At a certain point I am starting to think they did not value his life
enough but that was long after the take down.


Or they had seen this act before from this guy. He was well known in the
area to the cops, with 31 previous arrests...

Only 22 arrests were for crimes other than selling outlawed cigarettes.
Do you happen to know what those crimes were?

Garner Video
 

On 12/6/2014 8:12 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 12/6/14 8:10 AM, KC wrote:
On 12/6/2014 12:47 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 05 Dec 2014 19:49:05 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/5/2014 7:28 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 5 Dec 2014 19:14:43 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

CNN ran a long video a little while ago that recorded the
aftermath of
the take down of Garner and the activities of the EMT personnel and
movement of him to an ambulance.

The video showed the EMT checking him for a pulse. It's not clear
what
she said but it appears she indicated he had a pulse.

As they loaded him on a gurney for transport a bystander asked
one of
the cops why they didn't perform CPR. The cop answered that
Garner was
breathing.

If this is all true, it sorta changes the whole story about the cop
choking him to death.

You do know that there was a black female Sargent who was supervising
the arrest of Garner. Why wasn't she subject to indictment for
allowing
a death to occur during her watch?

It does seem like a whole bunch of folks just skipped over that.



“Pantaleo is the only NYPD member facing possible indictment. Others at
the scene, including two sergeants, were offered immunity for their
testimony to the grand jury.�

...NBC news

CNN was reporting today that the EMTs are in trouble. I was just
passing through but I think I heard them say 2 are suspended and 2
were fired.
Considering the death was partially blamed on the position he was held
down in and the fact that cops other than Pantaleo were sitting on
him. I can see why they didn't indict.
Far too much reasonable doubt about any one person causing his death.
It does look like EMS could have done a lot more to keep this guy
alive. They seemed to think he was not in any particular trouble or
they would have AT LEAST put an oxygen mask on him and pumped some O2
into his lungs. That might have fixed him up right then.
My bet is everyone was happy that this guy was docile and they didn't
want to wake him up. That was the crime if there was one.

At a certain point I am starting to think they did not value his life
enough but that was long after the take down.


Or they had seen this act before from this guy. He was well known in the
area to the cops, with 31 previous arrests...


Sorta like you, eh?

Did your whining complaint to his hometown police result in an arrest?

Garner Video
 

On 12/6/2014 9:01 AM, Let it snowe wrote:
On 12/6/2014 8:10 AM, KC wrote:
On 12/6/2014 12:47 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 05 Dec 2014 19:49:05 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/5/2014 7:28 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 5 Dec 2014 19:14:43 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

CNN ran a long video a little while ago that recorded the
aftermath of
the take down of Garner and the activities of the EMT personnel and
movement of him to an ambulance.

The video showed the EMT checking him for a pulse. It's not clear
what
she said but it appears she indicated he had a pulse.

As they loaded him on a gurney for transport a bystander asked
one of
the cops why they didn't perform CPR. The cop answered that
Garner was
breathing.

If this is all true, it sorta changes the whole story about the cop
choking him to death.

You do know that there was a black female Sargent who was supervising
the arrest of Garner. Why wasn't she subject to indictment for
allowing
a death to occur during her watch?

It does seem like a whole bunch of folks just skipped over that.



“Pantaleo is the only NYPD member facing possible indictment. Others at
the scene, including two sergeants, were offered immunity for their
testimony to the grand jury.�

...NBC news

CNN was reporting today that the EMTs are in trouble. I was just
passing through but I think I heard them say 2 are suspended and 2
were fired.
Considering the death was partially blamed on the position he was held
down in and the fact that cops other than Pantaleo were sitting on
him. I can see why they didn't indict.
Far too much reasonable doubt about any one person causing his death.
It does look like EMS could have done a lot more to keep this guy
alive. They seemed to think he was not in any particular trouble or
they would have AT LEAST put an oxygen mask on him and pumped some O2
into his lungs. That might have fixed him up right then.
My bet is everyone was happy that this guy was docile and they didn't
want to wake him up. That was the crime if there was one.

At a certain point I am starting to think they did not value his life
enough but that was long after the take down.


Or they had seen this act before from this guy. He was well known in the
area to the cops, with 31 previous arrests...

Only 22 arrests were for crimes other than selling outlawed cigarettes.
Do you happen to know what those crimes were?


All misdemeanors. Driving without a license. Possession of a small
amount of pot.

A very dangerous threat to his community.

Garner Video
 

On 12/6/2014 9:08 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/6/2014 9:01 AM, Let it snowe wrote:
On 12/6/2014 8:10 AM, KC wrote:
On 12/6/2014 12:47 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 05 Dec 2014 19:49:05 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/5/2014 7:28 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 5 Dec 2014 19:14:43 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

CNN ran a long video a little while ago that recorded the
aftermath of
the take down of Garner and the activities of the EMT personnel and
movement of him to an ambulance.

The video showed the EMT checking him for a pulse. It's not clear
what
she said but it appears she indicated he had a pulse.

As they loaded him on a gurney for transport a bystander asked
one of
the cops why they didn't perform CPR. The cop answered that
Garner was
breathing.

If this is all true, it sorta changes the whole story about the cop
choking him to death.

You do know that there was a black female Sargent who was
supervising
the arrest of Garner. Why wasn't she subject to indictment for
allowing
a death to occur during her watch?

It does seem like a whole bunch of folks just skipped over that.



“Pantaleo is the only NYPD member facing possible indictment.
Others at
the scene, including two sergeants, were offered immunity for their
testimony to the grand jury.�

...NBC news

CNN was reporting today that the EMTs are in trouble. I was just
passing through but I think I heard them say 2 are suspended and 2
were fired.
Considering the death was partially blamed on the position he was held
down in and the fact that cops other than Pantaleo were sitting on
him. I can see why they didn't indict.
Far too much reasonable doubt about any one person causing his death.
It does look like EMS could have done a lot more to keep this guy
alive. They seemed to think he was not in any particular trouble or
they would have AT LEAST put an oxygen mask on him and pumped some O2
into his lungs. That might have fixed him up right then.
My bet is everyone was happy that this guy was docile and they didn't
want to wake him up. That was the crime if there was one.

At a certain point I am starting to think they did not value his life
enough but that was long after the take down.


Or they had seen this act before from this guy. He was well known in the
area to the cops, with 31 previous arrests...

Only 22 arrests were for crimes other than selling outlawed cigarettes.
Do you happen to know what those crimes were?


All misdemeanors. Driving without a license. Possession of a small
amount of pot.

A very dangerous threat to his community.

The city of New Yawk thinks thinks selling cigarettes without a city tax
stamp is a very serious crime. It also thinks diverting police resources
to go after these petty criminals is preventing said crims from moving
into larger criminal enterprises. I am torn between applauding New York
for being so progressive in their approach to crime prevention, and
condemning them for being overly nannyish.

PS: You remember when they tried to ban soda pop, don't you?

Garner Video
 

On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 09:08:59 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/6/2014 9:01 AM, Let it snowe wrote:
On 12/6/2014 8:10 AM, KC wrote:
On 12/6/2014 12:47 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 05 Dec 2014 19:49:05 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/5/2014 7:28 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 5 Dec 2014 19:14:43 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

CNN ran a long video a little while ago that recorded the
aftermath of
the take down of Garner and the activities of the EMT personnel and
movement of him to an ambulance.

The video showed the EMT checking him for a pulse. It's not clear
what
she said but it appears she indicated he had a pulse.

As they loaded him on a gurney for transport a bystander asked
one of
the cops why they didn't perform CPR. The cop answered that
Garner was
breathing.

If this is all true, it sorta changes the whole story about the cop
choking him to death.

You do know that there was a black female Sargent who was supervising
the arrest of Garner. Why wasn't she subject to indictment for
allowing
a death to occur during her watch?

It does seem like a whole bunch of folks just skipped over that.



“Pantaleo is the only NYPD member facing possible indictment. Others at
the scene, including two sergeants, were offered immunity for their
testimony to the grand jury.”

...NBC news

CNN was reporting today that the EMTs are in trouble. I was just
passing through but I think I heard them say 2 are suspended and 2
were fired.
Considering the death was partially blamed on the position he was held
down in and the fact that cops other than Pantaleo were sitting on
him. I can see why they didn't indict.
Far too much reasonable doubt about any one person causing his death.
It does look like EMS could have done a lot more to keep this guy
alive. They seemed to think he was not in any particular trouble or
they would have AT LEAST put an oxygen mask on him and pumped some O2
into his lungs. That might have fixed him up right then.
My bet is everyone was happy that this guy was docile and they didn't
want to wake him up. That was the crime if there was one.

At a certain point I am starting to think they did not value his life
enough but that was long after the take down.


Or they had seen this act before from this guy. He was well known in the
area to the cops, with 31 previous arrests...

Only 22 arrests were for crimes other than selling outlawed cigarettes.
Do you happen to know what those crimes were?


All misdemeanors. Driving without a license. Possession of a small
amount of pot.

A very dangerous threat to his community.

===

I think you'd have to admit that 22 arrests does not exactly make for
a model citizen. How many crimes did he commit and did not get
caught? Would you want him for a neighbor or hanging out in front of
your business? People are supposed to learn from their mistakes.

Garner Video
 

On 12/6/2014 9:40 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 09:08:59 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/6/2014 9:01 AM, Let it snowe wrote:
On 12/6/2014 8:10 AM, KC wrote:
On 12/6/2014 12:47 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 05 Dec 2014 19:49:05 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/5/2014 7:28 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 5 Dec 2014 19:14:43 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

CNN ran a long video a little while ago that recorded the
aftermath of
the take down of Garner and the activities of the EMT personnel and
movement of him to an ambulance.

The video showed the EMT checking him for a pulse. It's not clear
what
she said but it appears she indicated he had a pulse.

As they loaded him on a gurney for transport a bystander asked
one of
the cops why they didn't perform CPR. The cop answered that
Garner was
breathing.

If this is all true, it sorta changes the whole story about the cop
choking him to death.

You do know that there was a black female Sargent who was supervising
the arrest of Garner. Why wasn't she subject to indictment for
allowing
a death to occur during her watch?

It does seem like a whole bunch of folks just skipped over that.



“Pantaleo is the only NYPD member facing possible indictment. Others at
the scene, including two sergeants, were offered immunity for their
testimony to the grand jury.”

...NBC news

CNN was reporting today that the EMTs are in trouble. I was just
passing through but I think I heard them say 2 are suspended and 2
were fired.
Considering the death was partially blamed on the position he was held
down in and the fact that cops other than Pantaleo were sitting on
him. I can see why they didn't indict.
Far too much reasonable doubt about any one person causing his death.
It does look like EMS could have done a lot more to keep this guy
alive. They seemed to think he was not in any particular trouble or
they would have AT LEAST put an oxygen mask on him and pumped some O2
into his lungs. That might have fixed him up right then.
My bet is everyone was happy that this guy was docile and they didn't
want to wake him up. That was the crime if there was one.

At a certain point I am starting to think they did not value his life
enough but that was long after the take down.


Or they had seen this act before from this guy. He was well known in the
area to the cops, with 31 previous arrests...

Only 22 arrests were for crimes other than selling outlawed cigarettes.
Do you happen to know what those crimes were?


All misdemeanors. Driving without a license. Possession of a small
amount of pot.

A very dangerous threat to his community.

===

I think you'd have to admit that 22 arrests does not exactly make for
a model citizen. How many crimes did he commit and did not get
caught? Would you want him for a neighbor or hanging out in front of
your business? People are supposed to learn from their mistakes.


And 9 more arrests for selling cancer sticks. I wouldn't want him in my
neighborhood, trying to get me started on that steeenkin habit again.

Garner Video
 

On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 09:27:39 -0500, Let it snowe
wrote:

I am torn between applauding New York
for being so progressive in their approach to crime prevention, and
condemning them for being overly nannyish.

===

I share the same sentiment but the two activities are unrelated.
There's no question that NYC has made huge progress on controling
crime. I moved there in the late 60s when things were totally out of
control and there has been a huge improvement since then. Arresting a
guy for selling untaxed cigarettes may seem petty but the reality is
that he was a street hustler looking to make a buck anyway he could.

Garner Video
 

On 12/6/2014 9:01 AM, Let it snowe wrote:
On 12/6/2014 8:10 AM, KC wrote:
On 12/6/2014 12:47 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 05 Dec 2014 19:49:05 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/5/2014 7:28 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 5 Dec 2014 19:14:43 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

CNN ran a long video a little while ago that recorded the
aftermath of
the take down of Garner and the activities of the EMT personnel and
movement of him to an ambulance.

The video showed the EMT checking him for a pulse. It's not clear
what
she said but it appears she indicated he had a pulse.

As they loaded him on a gurney for transport a bystander asked
one of
the cops why they didn't perform CPR. The cop answered that
Garner was
breathing.

If this is all true, it sorta changes the whole story about the cop
choking him to death.

You do know that there was a black female Sargent who was supervising
the arrest of Garner. Why wasn't she subject to indictment for
allowing
a death to occur during her watch?

It does seem like a whole bunch of folks just skipped over that.



“Pantaleo is the only NYPD member facing possible indictment. Others at
the scene, including two sergeants, were offered immunity for their
testimony to the grand jury.�

...NBC news

CNN was reporting today that the EMTs are in trouble. I was just
passing through but I think I heard them say 2 are suspended and 2
were fired.
Considering the death was partially blamed on the position he was held
down in and the fact that cops other than Pantaleo were sitting on
him. I can see why they didn't indict.
Far too much reasonable doubt about any one person causing his death.
It does look like EMS could have done a lot more to keep this guy
alive. They seemed to think he was not in any particular trouble or
they would have AT LEAST put an oxygen mask on him and pumped some O2
into his lungs. That might have fixed him up right then.
My bet is everyone was happy that this guy was docile and they didn't
want to wake him up. That was the crime if there was one.

At a certain point I am starting to think they did not value his life
enough but that was long after the take down.


Or they had seen this act before from this guy. He was well known in the
area to the cops, with 31 previous arrests...

Only 22 arrests were for crimes other than selling outlawed cigarettes.
Do you happen to know what those crimes were?

I heard a list of them the other night, they seemed very minor but may
have included resisting arrest. Either way I am not saying I heard
anything to that, but I am asking if possibly they had seen him act like
this before. These responders get pretty used to some folks when they
deal with them on a weekly basis and the court system keeps throwing
them right back out on the street....

Garner Video
 

On 12/6/2014 9:27 AM, Let it snowe wrote:
On 12/6/2014 9:08 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/6/2014 9:01 AM, Let it snowe wrote:
On 12/6/2014 8:10 AM, KC wrote:
On 12/6/2014 12:47 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 05 Dec 2014 19:49:05 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/5/2014 7:28 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 5 Dec 2014 19:14:43 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

CNN ran a long video a little while ago that recorded the
aftermath of
the take down of Garner and the activities of the EMT personnel
and
movement of him to an ambulance.

The video showed the EMT checking him for a pulse. It's not clear
what
she said but it appears she indicated he had a pulse.

As they loaded him on a gurney for transport a bystander asked
one of
the cops why they didn't perform CPR. The cop answered that
Garner was
breathing.

If this is all true, it sorta changes the whole story about the
cop
choking him to death.

You do know that there was a black female Sargent who was
supervising
the arrest of Garner. Why wasn't she subject to indictment for
allowing
a death to occur during her watch?

It does seem like a whole bunch of folks just skipped over that.



“Pantaleo is the only NYPD member facing possible indictment.
Others at
the scene, including two sergeants, were offered immunity for their
testimony to the grand jury.�

...NBC news

CNN was reporting today that the EMTs are in trouble. I was just
passing through but I think I heard them say 2 are suspended and 2
were fired.
Considering the death was partially blamed on the position he was held
down in and the fact that cops other than Pantaleo were sitting on
him. I can see why they didn't indict.
Far too much reasonable doubt about any one person causing his death.
It does look like EMS could have done a lot more to keep this guy
alive. They seemed to think he was not in any particular trouble or
they would have AT LEAST put an oxygen mask on him and pumped some O2
into his lungs. That might have fixed him up right then.
My bet is everyone was happy that this guy was docile and they didn't
want to wake him up. That was the crime if there was one.

At a certain point I am starting to think they did not value his life
enough but that was long after the take down.


Or they had seen this act before from this guy. He was well known in
the
area to the cops, with 31 previous arrests...

Only 22 arrests were for crimes other than selling outlawed cigarettes.
Do you happen to know what those crimes were?


All misdemeanors. Driving without a license. Possession of a small
amount of pot.

A very dangerous threat to his community.

The city of New Yawk thinks thinks selling cigarettes without a city tax
stamp is a very serious crime. It also thinks diverting police resources
to go after these petty criminals is preventing said crims from moving
into larger criminal enterprises. I am torn between applauding New York
for being so progressive in their approach to crime prevention, and
condemning them for being overly nannyish.

It's all part of a well proven policy of taking out the little crims,
turns out a lot of them are the ones doing big stuff too... That's what
a lot of this "protest" is about is getting rid of policies like this
and stop and frisk that saved lives and property and made Ny in
particular, a livable place, unlike Chicago or Detroit...

PS: You remember when they tried to ban soda pop, don't you?

That is like apples and oranges...

Garner Video
 

On 12/6/2014 9:57 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 09:27:39 -0500, Let it snowe
wrote:

I am torn between applauding New York
for being so progressive in their approach to crime prevention, and
condemning them for being overly nannyish.

===

I share the same sentiment but the two activities are unrelated.
There's no question that NYC has made huge progress on controling
crime. I moved there in the late 60s when things were totally out of
control and there has been a huge improvement since then. Arresting a
guy for selling untaxed cigarettes may seem petty but the reality is
that he was a street hustler looking to make a buck anyway he could.


Over time they found that taking out the little crims inevitably got a
lot of big crims too. Seems a lot of big crims do little crimes in
between big jobs.... Either way, this is the kind of progress this admin
and the anarchists want to stop.. Can't "represent" the people if they
are no longer oppressed....

Garner Video
 

On 12/6/2014 10:54 AM, KC wrote:
On 12/6/2014 9:27 AM, Let it snowe wrote:
On 12/6/2014 9:08 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/6/2014 9:01 AM, Let it snowe wrote:
On 12/6/2014 8:10 AM, KC wrote:
On 12/6/2014 12:47 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 05 Dec 2014 19:49:05 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"

wrote:

On 12/5/2014 7:28 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 5 Dec 2014 19:14:43 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

CNN ran a long video a little while ago that recorded the
aftermath of
the take down of Garner and the activities of the EMT personnel
and
movement of him to an ambulance.

The video showed the EMT checking him for a pulse. It's not
clear
what
she said but it appears she indicated he had a pulse.

As they loaded him on a gurney for transport a bystander asked
one of
the cops why they didn't perform CPR. The cop answered that
Garner was
breathing.

If this is all true, it sorta changes the whole story about the
cop
choking him to death.

You do know that there was a black female Sargent who was
supervising
the arrest of Garner. Why wasn't she subject to indictment for
allowing
a death to occur during her watch?

It does seem like a whole bunch of folks just skipped over that.



“Pantaleo is the only NYPD member facing possible indictment.
Others at
the scene, including two sergeants, were offered immunity for their
testimony to the grand jury.�

...NBC news

CNN was reporting today that the EMTs are in trouble. I was just
passing through but I think I heard them say 2 are suspended and 2
were fired.
Considering the death was partially blamed on the position he was
held
down in and the fact that cops other than Pantaleo were sitting on
him. I can see why they didn't indict.
Far too much reasonable doubt about any one person causing his death.
It does look like EMS could have done a lot more to keep this guy
alive. They seemed to think he was not in any particular trouble or
they would have AT LEAST put an oxygen mask on him and pumped some O2
into his lungs. That might have fixed him up right then.
My bet is everyone was happy that this guy was docile and they didn't
want to wake him up. That was the crime if there was one.

At a certain point I am starting to think they did not value his life
enough but that was long after the take down.


Or they had seen this act before from this guy. He was well known in
the
area to the cops, with 31 previous arrests...

Only 22 arrests were for crimes other than selling outlawed cigarettes.
Do you happen to know what those crimes were?


All misdemeanors. Driving without a license. Possession of a small
amount of pot.

A very dangerous threat to his community.

The city of New Yawk thinks thinks selling cigarettes without a city tax
stamp is a very serious crime. It also thinks diverting police resources
to go after these petty criminals is preventing said crims from moving
into larger criminal enterprises. I am torn between applauding New York
for being so progressive in their approach to crime prevention, and
condemning them for being overly nannyish.

It's all part of a well proven policy of taking out the little crims,
turns out a lot of them are the ones doing big stuff too... That's what
a lot of this "protest" is about is getting rid of policies like this
and stop and frisk that saved lives and property and made Ny in
particular, a livable place, unlike Chicago or Detroit...

PS: You remember when they tried to ban soda pop, don't you?

That is like apples and oranges...


What is?

Garner Video
 

On 12/6/2014 9:40 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 09:08:59 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/6/2014 9:01 AM, Let it snowe wrote:
On 12/6/2014 8:10 AM, KC wrote:
On 12/6/2014 12:47 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 05 Dec 2014 19:49:05 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/5/2014 7:28 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 5 Dec 2014 19:14:43 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

CNN ran a long video a little while ago that recorded the
aftermath of
the take down of Garner and the activities of the EMT personnel and
movement of him to an ambulance.

The video showed the EMT checking him for a pulse. It's not clear
what
she said but it appears she indicated he had a pulse.

As they loaded him on a gurney for transport a bystander asked
one of
the cops why they didn't perform CPR. The cop answered that
Garner was
breathing.

If this is all true, it sorta changes the whole story about the cop
choking him to death.

You do know that there was a black female Sargent who was supervising
the arrest of Garner. Why wasn't she subject to indictment for
allowing
a death to occur during her watch?

It does seem like a whole bunch of folks just skipped over that.



“Pantaleo is the only NYPD member facing possible indictment. Others at
the scene, including two sergeants, were offered immunity for their
testimony to the grand jury.”

...NBC news

CNN was reporting today that the EMTs are in trouble. I was just
passing through but I think I heard them say 2 are suspended and 2
were fired.
Considering the death was partially blamed on the position he was held
down in and the fact that cops other than Pantaleo were sitting on
him. I can see why they didn't indict.
Far too much reasonable doubt about any one person causing his death.
It does look like EMS could have done a lot more to keep this guy
alive. They seemed to think he was not in any particular trouble or
they would have AT LEAST put an oxygen mask on him and pumped some O2
into his lungs. That might have fixed him up right then.
My bet is everyone was happy that this guy was docile and they didn't
want to wake him up. That was the crime if there was one.

At a certain point I am starting to think they did not value his life
enough but that was long after the take down.


Or they had seen this act before from this guy. He was well known in the
area to the cops, with 31 previous arrests...

Only 22 arrests were for crimes other than selling outlawed cigarettes.
Do you happen to know what those crimes were?


All misdemeanors. Driving without a license. Possession of a small
amount of pot.

A very dangerous threat to his community.

===

I think you'd have to admit that 22 arrests does not exactly make for
a model citizen. How many crimes did he commit and did not get
caught? Would you want him for a neighbor or hanging out in front of
your business? People are supposed to learn from their mistakes.


Before we get too into the types of crimes I will remind you all that my
point is they may have seen this kind of "passive resist" from this guy
before. According to what I heard, they all knew him well in the area,
including the cops.... What if it turns out he pulls away and cries "I
can't breathe" every time they try to take him in or talk to him?

Garner Video
 

On 12/6/2014 7:55 AM, wrote:
On Friday, December 5, 2014 8:42:59 PM UTC-5, Califbill wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 12/5/2014 7:14 PM, BAR wrote:
In article ,
says...

CNN ran a long video a little while ago that recorded the aftermath of
the take down of Garner and the activities of the EMT personnel and
movement of him to an ambulance.

The video showed the EMT checking him for a pulse. It's not clear what
she said but it appears she indicated he had a pulse.

As they loaded him on a gurney for transport a bystander asked one of
the cops why they didn't perform CPR. The cop answered that Garner was
breathing.

If this is all true, it sorta changes the whole story about the cop
choking him to death.

You do know that there was a black female Sargent who was supervising
the arrest of Garner. Why wasn't she subject to indictment for allowing
a death to occur during her watch?



"Pantaleo is the only NYPD member facing possible indictment. Others at
the scene, including two sergeants, were offered immunity for their
testimony to the grand jury."

...NBC news

Seems as if they want to insure bias.

You can't swing a dead cat in the last few days without running into a new news story about a white cop shooting a black perp. The media has latched onto this storyline, and they are fanning the flames. Notice that they aren't reporting about white cops shooting white perps, or black cops shooting anyone.


Or the four black guys who kidnapped and killed a white cop last week...

Garner Video
 

On 12/6/2014 10:59 AM, Let it snowe wrote:
On 12/6/2014 10:54 AM, KC wrote:
On 12/6/2014 9:27 AM, Let it snowe wrote:
On 12/6/2014 9:08 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/6/2014 9:01 AM, Let it snowe wrote:
On 12/6/2014 8:10 AM, KC wrote:
On 12/6/2014 12:47 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 05 Dec 2014 19:49:05 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"

wrote:

On 12/5/2014 7:28 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 5 Dec 2014 19:14:43 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

CNN ran a long video a little while ago that recorded the
aftermath of
the take down of Garner and the activities of the EMT personnel
and
movement of him to an ambulance.

The video showed the EMT checking him for a pulse. It's not
clear
what
she said but it appears she indicated he had a pulse.

As they loaded him on a gurney for transport a bystander asked
one of
the cops why they didn't perform CPR. The cop answered that
Garner was
breathing.

If this is all true, it sorta changes the whole story about the
cop
choking him to death.

You do know that there was a black female Sargent who was
supervising
the arrest of Garner. Why wasn't she subject to indictment for
allowing
a death to occur during her watch?

It does seem like a whole bunch of folks just skipped over that.



“Pantaleo is the only NYPD member facing possible indictment.
Others at
the scene, including two sergeants, were offered immunity for their
testimony to the grand jury.�

...NBC news

CNN was reporting today that the EMTs are in trouble. I was just
passing through but I think I heard them say 2 are suspended and 2
were fired.
Considering the death was partially blamed on the position he was
held
down in and the fact that cops other than Pantaleo were sitting on
him. I can see why they didn't indict.
Far too much reasonable doubt about any one person causing his
death.
It does look like EMS could have done a lot more to keep this guy
alive. They seemed to think he was not in any particular trouble or
they would have AT LEAST put an oxygen mask on him and pumped
some O2
into his lungs. That might have fixed him up right then.
My bet is everyone was happy that this guy was docile and they
didn't
want to wake him up. That was the crime if there was one.

At a certain point I am starting to think they did not value his
life
enough but that was long after the take down.


Or they had seen this act before from this guy. He was well known in
the
area to the cops, with 31 previous arrests...

Only 22 arrests were for crimes other than selling outlawed
cigarettes.
Do you happen to know what those crimes were?


All misdemeanors. Driving without a license. Possession of a small
amount of pot.

A very dangerous threat to his community.

The city of New Yawk thinks thinks selling cigarettes without a city tax
stamp is a very serious crime. It also thinks diverting police resources
to go after these petty criminals is preventing said crims from moving
into larger criminal enterprises. I am torn between applauding New York
for being so progressive in their approach to crime prevention, and
condemning them for being overly nannyish.

It's all part of a well proven policy of taking out the little crims,
turns out a lot of them are the ones doing big stuff too... That's what
a lot of this "protest" is about is getting rid of policies like this
and stop and frisk that saved lives and property and made Ny in
particular, a livable place, unlike Chicago or Detroit...

PS: You remember when they tried to ban soda pop, don't you?

That is like apples and oranges...


What is?

Banning soda, and the loose cig thing.

Garner Video
 

On 12/6/2014 11:08 AM, KC wrote:
On 12/6/2014 10:59 AM, Let it snowe wrote:
On 12/6/2014 10:54 AM, KC wrote:
On 12/6/2014 9:27 AM, Let it snowe wrote:
On 12/6/2014 9:08 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/6/2014 9:01 AM, Let it snowe wrote:
On 12/6/2014 8:10 AM, KC wrote:
On 12/6/2014 12:47 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 05 Dec 2014 19:49:05 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"

wrote:

On 12/5/2014 7:28 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 5 Dec 2014 19:14:43 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

CNN ran a long video a little while ago that recorded the
aftermath of
the take down of Garner and the activities of the EMT personnel
and
movement of him to an ambulance.

The video showed the EMT checking him for a pulse. It's not
clear
what
she said but it appears she indicated he had a pulse.

As they loaded him on a gurney for transport a bystander asked
one of
the cops why they didn't perform CPR. The cop answered that
Garner was
breathing.

If this is all true, it sorta changes the whole story about the
cop
choking him to death.

You do know that there was a black female Sargent who was
supervising
the arrest of Garner. Why wasn't she subject to indictment for
allowing
a death to occur during her watch?

It does seem like a whole bunch of folks just skipped over that.



“Pantaleo is the only NYPD member facing possible indictment.
Others at
the scene, including two sergeants, were offered immunity for
their
testimony to the grand jury.�

...NBC news

CNN was reporting today that the EMTs are in trouble. I was just
passing through but I think I heard them say 2 are suspended and 2
were fired.
Considering the death was partially blamed on the position he was
held
down in and the fact that cops other than Pantaleo were sitting on
him. I can see why they didn't indict.
Far too much reasonable doubt about any one person causing his
death.
It does look like EMS could have done a lot more to keep this guy
alive. They seemed to think he was not in any particular trouble or
they would have AT LEAST put an oxygen mask on him and pumped
some O2
into his lungs. That might have fixed him up right then.
My bet is everyone was happy that this guy was docile and they
didn't
want to wake him up. That was the crime if there was one.

At a certain point I am starting to think they did not value his
life
enough but that was long after the take down.


Or they had seen this act before from this guy. He was well known in
the
area to the cops, with 31 previous arrests...

Only 22 arrests were for crimes other than selling outlawed
cigarettes.
Do you happen to know what those crimes were?


All misdemeanors. Driving without a license. Possession of a small
amount of pot.

A very dangerous threat to his community.

The city of New Yawk thinks thinks selling cigarettes without a city
tax
stamp is a very serious crime. It also thinks diverting police
resources
to go after these petty criminals is preventing said crims from moving
into larger criminal enterprises. I am torn between applauding New York
for being so progressive in their approach to crime prevention, and
condemning them for being overly nannyish.

It's all part of a well proven policy of taking out the little crims,
turns out a lot of them are the ones doing big stuff too... That's what
a lot of this "protest" is about is getting rid of policies like this
and stop and frisk that saved lives and property and made Ny in
particular, a livable place, unlike Chicago or Detroit...

PS: You remember when they tried to ban soda pop, don't you?

That is like apples and oranges...


What is?

Banning soda, and the loose cig thing.

You imply that I was trying to draw a comparison.

Garner Video
 

On 12/6/2014 9:40 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 09:08:59 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/6/2014 9:01 AM, Let it snowe wrote:
On 12/6/2014 8:10 AM, KC wrote:
On 12/6/2014 12:47 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 05 Dec 2014 19:49:05 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/5/2014 7:28 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 5 Dec 2014 19:14:43 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

CNN ran a long video a little while ago that recorded the
aftermath of
the take down of Garner and the activities of the EMT personnel and
movement of him to an ambulance.

The video showed the EMT checking him for a pulse. It's not clear
what
she said but it appears she indicated he had a pulse.

As they loaded him on a gurney for transport a bystander asked
one of
the cops why they didn't perform CPR. The cop answered that
Garner was
breathing.

If this is all true, it sorta changes the whole story about the cop
choking him to death.

You do know that there was a black female Sargent who was supervising
the arrest of Garner. Why wasn't she subject to indictment for
allowing
a death to occur during her watch?

It does seem like a whole bunch of folks just skipped over that.



“Pantaleo is the only NYPD member facing possible indictment. Others at
the scene, including two sergeants, were offered immunity for their
testimony to the grand jury.”

...NBC news

CNN was reporting today that the EMTs are in trouble. I was just
passing through but I think I heard them say 2 are suspended and 2
were fired.
Considering the death was partially blamed on the position he was held
down in and the fact that cops other than Pantaleo were sitting on
him. I can see why they didn't indict.
Far too much reasonable doubt about any one person causing his death.
It does look like EMS could have done a lot more to keep this guy
alive. They seemed to think he was not in any particular trouble or
they would have AT LEAST put an oxygen mask on him and pumped some O2
into his lungs. That might have fixed him up right then.
My bet is everyone was happy that this guy was docile and they didn't
want to wake him up. That was the crime if there was one.

At a certain point I am starting to think they did not value his life
enough but that was long after the take down.


Or they had seen this act before from this guy. He was well known in the
area to the cops, with 31 previous arrests...

Only 22 arrests were for crimes other than selling outlawed cigarettes.
Do you happen to know what those crimes were?


All misdemeanors. Driving without a license. Possession of a small
amount of pot.

A very dangerous threat to his community.

===

I think you'd have to admit that 22 arrests does not exactly make for
a model citizen. How many crimes did he commit and did not get
caught? Would you want him for a neighbor or hanging out in front of
your business? People are supposed to learn from their mistakes.



No argument. Just not sure the punishment he received fit the crime.

Garner Video
 

On 12/6/2014 11:16 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 09:08:59 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:



All misdemeanors. Driving without a license. Possession of a small
amount of pot.

A very dangerous threat to his community.

The New York policy of cracking down on misdemeanors has been very
effective in preventing felonies. That is easily demonstrated in the
last decade's crime statistics.

As for the arrest, if a cop stops you for any minor offence, say a
seat belt violation and you refuse to sign the ticket, you are going
off in cuffs ... or getting shot. (like the guy everyone seems to be
ignoring)

I am the first to say the cops can be out of line but we seem to be
hung up on the wrong ones.



I don't know what was more effective in New York, chasing after the
little crimes (Broken Window) or the stop and frisk policy. If I had to
guess I would think the latter.

Garner Video
 

On 12/6/2014 12:33 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/6/2014 9:40 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 09:08:59 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/6/2014 9:01 AM, Let it snowe wrote:
On 12/6/2014 8:10 AM, KC wrote:
On 12/6/2014 12:47 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 05 Dec 2014 19:49:05 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"

wrote:

On 12/5/2014 7:28 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 5 Dec 2014 19:14:43 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

CNN ran a long video a little while ago that recorded the
aftermath of
the take down of Garner and the activities of the EMT
personnel and
movement of him to an ambulance.

The video showed the EMT checking him for a pulse. It's not
clear
what
she said but it appears she indicated he had a pulse.

As they loaded him on a gurney for transport a bystander asked
one of
the cops why they didn't perform CPR. The cop answered that
Garner was
breathing.

If this is all true, it sorta changes the whole story about
the cop
choking him to death.

You do know that there was a black female Sargent who was
supervising
the arrest of Garner. Why wasn't she subject to indictment for
allowing
a death to occur during her watch?

It does seem like a whole bunch of folks just skipped over that.



“Pantaleo is the only NYPD member facing possible indictment.
Others at
the scene, including two sergeants, were offered immunity for their
testimony to the grand jury.”

...NBC news

CNN was reporting today that the EMTs are in trouble. I was just
passing through but I think I heard them say 2 are suspended and 2
were fired.
Considering the death was partially blamed on the position he was
held
down in and the fact that cops other than Pantaleo were sitting on
him. I can see why they didn't indict.
Far too much reasonable doubt about any one person causing his death.
It does look like EMS could have done a lot more to keep this guy
alive. They seemed to think he was not in any particular trouble or
they would have AT LEAST put an oxygen mask on him and pumped some O2
into his lungs. That might have fixed him up right then.
My bet is everyone was happy that this guy was docile and they didn't
want to wake him up. That was the crime if there was one.

At a certain point I am starting to think they did not value his life
enough but that was long after the take down.


Or they had seen this act before from this guy. He was well known
in the
area to the cops, with 31 previous arrests...

Only 22 arrests were for crimes other than selling outlawed cigarettes.
Do you happen to know what those crimes were?


All misdemeanors. Driving without a license. Possession of a small
amount of pot.

A very dangerous threat to his community.

===

I think you'd have to admit that 22 arrests does not exactly make for
a model citizen. How many crimes did he commit and did not get
caught? Would you want him for a neighbor or hanging out in front of
your business? People are supposed to learn from their mistakes.



No argument. Just not sure the punishment he received fit the crime.



He died resisting arrest. He wasn't being punished.

Garner Video
 

"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 12/6/2014 11:16 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 09:08:59 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:



All misdemeanors. Driving without a license. Possession of a small
amount of pot.

A very dangerous threat to his community.

The New York policy of cracking down on misdemeanors has been very
effective in preventing felonies. That is easily demonstrated in the
last decade's crime statistics.

As for the arrest, if a cop stops you for any minor offence, say a
seat belt violation and you refuse to sign the ticket, you are going
off in cuffs ... or getting shot. (like the guy everyone seems to be
ignoring)

I am the first to say the cops can be out of line but we seem to be
hung up on the wrong ones.



I don't know what was more effective in New York, chasing after the
little crimes (Broken Window) or the stop and frisk policy. If I had to
guess I would think the latter.

I wonder if the ultra violence cops commit against unarmed civilians has
any impact on violence in our society generally. As in, have a
disagreement? Shoot 'em.
--
Sent from my iPhone 6+

Garner Video
 

On 12/6/2014 1:06 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 12/6/2014 11:16 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 09:08:59 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:



All misdemeanors. Driving without a license. Possession of a small
amount of pot.

A very dangerous threat to his community.

The New York policy of cracking down on misdemeanors has been very
effective in preventing felonies. That is easily demonstrated in the
last decade's crime statistics.

As for the arrest, if a cop stops you for any minor offence, say a
seat belt violation and you refuse to sign the ticket, you are going
off in cuffs ... or getting shot. (like the guy everyone seems to be
ignoring)

I am the first to say the cops can be out of line but we seem to be
hung up on the wrong ones.



I don't know what was more effective in New York, chasing after the
little crimes (Broken Window) or the stop and frisk policy. If I had to
guess I would think the latter.

I wonder if the ultra violence cops commit against unarmed civilians has
any impact on violence in our society generally. As in, have a
disagreement? Shoot 'em.

It doesn't appear that you comprehend what went down.

Garner Video
 

On 12/6/2014 1:11 PM, Let it snowe wrote:
On 12/6/2014 1:06 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 12/6/2014 11:16 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 09:08:59 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:



All misdemeanors. Driving without a license. Possession of a small
amount of pot.

A very dangerous threat to his community.

The New York policy of cracking down on misdemeanors has been very
effective in preventing felonies. That is easily demonstrated in the
last decade's crime statistics.

As for the arrest, if a cop stops you for any minor offence, say a
seat belt violation and you refuse to sign the ticket, you are going
off in cuffs ... or getting shot. (like the guy everyone seems to be
ignoring)

I am the first to say the cops can be out of line but we seem to be
hung up on the wrong ones.



I don't know what was more effective in New York, chasing after the
little crimes (Broken Window) or the stop and frisk policy. If I had to
guess I would think the latter.

I wonder if the ultra violence cops commit against unarmed civilians has
any impact on violence in our society generally. As in, have a
disagreement? Shoot 'em.

It doesn't appear that you comprehend what went down.


I hear what Harry is saying. The police use the same tactics on petty
criminals (like someone selling loose cigarettes on the street) as they
do going after a serial killer holding a hostage. The training to
apprehend and control is the same.

Garner was not fighting back or shooting at anyone. His "resistance"
most mostly verbal, expressing frustration because the police had
obviously stopped him before. There really was no need for the
situation to escalate physically as quickly as it did. A little more
talking in a calm manner with some training in how to defuse a situation
without having to beat the crap out of someone might be a better approach.

Garner Video
 

On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 13:03:54 -0500, Let it snowe
wrote:

On 12/6/2014 12:33 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/6/2014 9:40 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 09:08:59 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/6/2014 9:01 AM, Let it snowe wrote:
On 12/6/2014 8:10 AM, KC wrote:
On 12/6/2014 12:47 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 05 Dec 2014 19:49:05 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"

wrote:

On 12/5/2014 7:28 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 5 Dec 2014 19:14:43 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

CNN ran a long video a little while ago that recorded the
aftermath of
the take down of Garner and the activities of the EMT
personnel and
movement of him to an ambulance.

The video showed the EMT checking him for a pulse. It's not
clear
what
she said but it appears she indicated he had a pulse.

As they loaded him on a gurney for transport a bystander asked
one of
the cops why they didn't perform CPR. The cop answered that
Garner was
breathing.

If this is all true, it sorta changes the whole story about
the cop
choking him to death.

You do know that there was a black female Sargent who was
supervising
the arrest of Garner. Why wasn't she subject to indictment for
allowing
a death to occur during her watch?

It does seem like a whole bunch of folks just skipped over that.



“Pantaleo is the only NYPD member facing possible indictment.
Others at
the scene, including two sergeants, were offered immunity for their
testimony to the grand jury.”

...NBC news

CNN was reporting today that the EMTs are in trouble. I was just
passing through but I think I heard them say 2 are suspended and 2
were fired.
Considering the death was partially blamed on the position he was
held
down in and the fact that cops other than Pantaleo were sitting on
him. I can see why they didn't indict.
Far too much reasonable doubt about any one person causing his death.
It does look like EMS could have done a lot more to keep this guy
alive. They seemed to think he was not in any particular trouble or
they would have AT LEAST put an oxygen mask on him and pumped some O2
into his lungs. That might have fixed him up right then.
My bet is everyone was happy that this guy was docile and they didn't
want to wake him up. That was the crime if there was one.

At a certain point I am starting to think they did not value his life
enough but that was long after the take down.


Or they had seen this act before from this guy. He was well known
in the
area to the cops, with 31 previous arrests...

Only 22 arrests were for crimes other than selling outlawed cigarettes.
Do you happen to know what those crimes were?


All misdemeanors. Driving without a license. Possession of a small
amount of pot.

A very dangerous threat to his community.

===

I think you'd have to admit that 22 arrests does not exactly make for
a model citizen. How many crimes did he commit and did not get
caught? Would you want him for a neighbor or hanging out in front of
your business? People are supposed to learn from their mistakes.



No argument. Just not sure the punishment he received fit the crime.



He died resisting arrest. He wasn't being punished.

===

That's correct but it does raise the interesting question of what
would be a suitable punishment for a career street criminal with 31
priors. Clearly a $50 fine and a night in the can is not going to get
the job done if the goal is to get him off the street and mend his
ways.

Garner Video
 

F*O*A*D wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 12/6/2014 11:16 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 09:08:59 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:



All misdemeanors. Driving without a license. Possession of a small
amount of pot.

A very dangerous threat to his community.

The New York policy of cracking down on misdemeanors has been very
effective in preventing felonies. That is easily demonstrated in the
last decade's crime statistics.

As for the arrest, if a cop stops you for any minor offence, say a
seat belt violation and you refuse to sign the ticket, you are going
off in cuffs ... or getting shot. (like the guy everyone seems to be
ignoring)

I am the first to say the cops can be out of line but we seem to be
hung up on the wrong ones.



I don't know what was more effective in New York, chasing after the
little crimes (Broken Window) or the stop and frisk policy. If I had to
guess I would think the latter.

I wonder if the ultra violence cops commit against unarmed civilians has
any impact on violence in our society generally. As in, have a
disagreement? Shoot 'em.

I did not hear where they shot him. Is that is the GJ report?

Garner Video
 

On 12/6/2014 1:43 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 13:03:54 -0500, Let it snowe
wrote:

On 12/6/2014 12:33 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/6/2014 9:40 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 09:08:59 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/6/2014 9:01 AM, Let it snowe wrote:
On 12/6/2014 8:10 AM, KC wrote:
On 12/6/2014 12:47 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 05 Dec 2014 19:49:05 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"

wrote:

On 12/5/2014 7:28 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 5 Dec 2014 19:14:43 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

CNN ran a long video a little while ago that recorded the
aftermath of
the take down of Garner and the activities of the EMT
personnel and
movement of him to an ambulance.

The video showed the EMT checking him for a pulse. It's not
clear
what
she said but it appears she indicated he had a pulse.

As they loaded him on a gurney for transport a bystander asked
one of
the cops why they didn't perform CPR. The cop answered that
Garner was
breathing.

If this is all true, it sorta changes the whole story about
the cop
choking him to death.

You do know that there was a black female Sargent who was
supervising
the arrest of Garner. Why wasn't she subject to indictment for
allowing
a death to occur during her watch?

It does seem like a whole bunch of folks just skipped over that.



“Pantaleo is the only NYPD member facing possible indictment.
Others at
the scene, including two sergeants, were offered immunity for their
testimony to the grand jury.”

...NBC news

CNN was reporting today that the EMTs are in trouble. I was just
passing through but I think I heard them say 2 are suspended and 2
were fired.
Considering the death was partially blamed on the position he was
held
down in and the fact that cops other than Pantaleo were sitting on
him. I can see why they didn't indict.
Far too much reasonable doubt about any one person causing his death.
It does look like EMS could have done a lot more to keep this guy
alive. They seemed to think he was not in any particular trouble or
they would have AT LEAST put an oxygen mask on him and pumped some O2
into his lungs. That might have fixed him up right then.
My bet is everyone was happy that this guy was docile and they didn't
want to wake him up. That was the crime if there was one.

At a certain point I am starting to think they did not value his life
enough but that was long after the take down.


Or they had seen this act before from this guy. He was well known
in the
area to the cops, with 31 previous arrests...

Only 22 arrests were for crimes other than selling outlawed cigarettes.
Do you happen to know what those crimes were?


All misdemeanors. Driving without a license. Possession of a small
amount of pot.

A very dangerous threat to his community.

===

I think you'd have to admit that 22 arrests does not exactly make for
a model citizen. How many crimes did he commit and did not get
caught? Would you want him for a neighbor or hanging out in front of
your business? People are supposed to learn from their mistakes.



No argument. Just not sure the punishment he received fit the crime.



He died resisting arrest. He wasn't being punished.

===

That's correct but it does raise the interesting question of what
would be a suitable punishment for a career street criminal with 31
priors. Clearly a $50 fine and a night in the can is not going to get
the job done if the goal is to get him off the street and mend his
ways.



We aren't going to get there by over-punishing the old ones. We might
get there by educating the young ones.

It's obvious it isn't happening at home in the inner city environments.
More casual interaction with law enforcement when kids are young
including programs that put kids and law enforcement together for
reasons other than responding to crimes. Sports, school programs,
community activities that demonstrate to the kids that the cops are not
the enemy. Cops might learn something also.

Garner Video
 

On Sat, 6 Dec 2014 04:55:55 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Friday, December 5, 2014 8:42:59 PM UTC-5, Califbill wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 12/5/2014 7:14 PM, BAR wrote:
In article ,
says...

CNN ran a long video a little while ago that recorded the aftermath of
the take down of Garner and the activities of the EMT personnel and
movement of him to an ambulance.

The video showed the EMT checking him for a pulse. It's not clear what
she said but it appears she indicated he had a pulse.

As they loaded him on a gurney for transport a bystander asked one of
the cops why they didn't perform CPR. The cop answered that Garner was
breathing.

If this is all true, it sorta changes the whole story about the cop
choking him to death.

You do know that there was a black female Sargent who was supervising
the arrest of Garner. Why wasn't she subject to indictment for allowing
a death to occur during her watch?



"Pantaleo is the only NYPD member facing possible indictment. Others at
the scene, including two sergeants, were offered immunity for their
testimony to the grand jury."

...NBC news

Seems as if they want to insure bias.

You can't swing a dead cat in the last few days without running into a new news story about a white cop shooting a black perp. The media has latched onto this storyline, and they are fanning the flames. Notice that they aren't reporting about white cops shooting white perps, or black cops shooting anyone.

The whiners here are doing the same.
--

"When your argument has backed a liberal into a corner,
expect to be called a racist."

Garner Video
 

On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 09:08:59 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/6/2014 9:01 AM, Let it snowe wrote:
On 12/6/2014 8:10 AM, KC wrote:
On 12/6/2014 12:47 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 05 Dec 2014 19:49:05 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/5/2014 7:28 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 5 Dec 2014 19:14:43 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

CNN ran a long video a little while ago that recorded the
aftermath of
the take down of Garner and the activities of the EMT personnel and
movement of him to an ambulance.

The video showed the EMT checking him for a pulse. It's not clear
what
she said but it appears she indicated he had a pulse.

As they loaded him on a gurney for transport a bystander asked
one of
the cops why they didn't perform CPR. The cop answered that
Garner was
breathing.

If this is all true, it sorta changes the whole story about the cop
choking him to death.

You do know that there was a black female Sargent who was supervising
the arrest of Garner. Why wasn't she subject to indictment for
allowing
a death to occur during her watch?

It does seem like a whole bunch of folks just skipped over that.



“Pantaleo is the only NYPD member facing possible indictment. Others at
the scene, including two sergeants, were offered immunity for their
testimony to the grand jury.”

...NBC news

CNN was reporting today that the EMTs are in trouble. I was just
passing through but I think I heard them say 2 are suspended and 2
were fired.
Considering the death was partially blamed on the position he was held
down in and the fact that cops other than Pantaleo were sitting on
him. I can see why they didn't indict.
Far too much reasonable doubt about any one person causing his death.
It does look like EMS could have done a lot more to keep this guy
alive. They seemed to think he was not in any particular trouble or
they would have AT LEAST put an oxygen mask on him and pumped some O2
into his lungs. That might have fixed him up right then.
My bet is everyone was happy that this guy was docile and they didn't
want to wake him up. That was the crime if there was one.

At a certain point I am starting to think they did not value his life
enough but that was long after the take down.


Or they had seen this act before from this guy. He was well known in the
area to the cops, with 31 previous arrests...

Only 22 arrests were for crimes other than selling outlawed cigarettes.
Do you happen to know what those crimes were?


All misdemeanors. Driving without a license. Possession of a small
amount of pot.

A very dangerous threat to his community.

Which is why the cops spent so much time calmly trying to get the dumb
ass to cooperate.
--

"When your argument has backed a liberal into a corner,
expect to be called a racist."

Garner Video
 

On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 09:50:37 -0500, Let it snowe
wrote:

On 12/6/2014 9:40 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 09:08:59 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/6/2014 9:01 AM, Let it snowe wrote:
On 12/6/2014 8:10 AM, KC wrote:
On 12/6/2014 12:47 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 05 Dec 2014 19:49:05 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/5/2014 7:28 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 5 Dec 2014 19:14:43 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

CNN ran a long video a little while ago that recorded the
aftermath of
the take down of Garner and the activities of the EMT personnel and
movement of him to an ambulance.

The video showed the EMT checking him for a pulse. It's not clear
what
she said but it appears she indicated he had a pulse.

As they loaded him on a gurney for transport a bystander asked
one of
the cops why they didn't perform CPR. The cop answered that
Garner was
breathing.

If this is all true, it sorta changes the whole story about the cop
choking him to death.

You do know that there was a black female Sargent who was supervising
the arrest of Garner. Why wasn't she subject to indictment for
allowing
a death to occur during her watch?

It does seem like a whole bunch of folks just skipped over that.



“Pantaleo is the only NYPD member facing possible indictment. Others at
the scene, including two sergeants, were offered immunity for their
testimony to the grand jury.”

...NBC news

CNN was reporting today that the EMTs are in trouble. I was just
passing through but I think I heard them say 2 are suspended and 2
were fired.
Considering the death was partially blamed on the position he was held
down in and the fact that cops other than Pantaleo were sitting on
him. I can see why they didn't indict.
Far too much reasonable doubt about any one person causing his death.
It does look like EMS could have done a lot more to keep this guy
alive. They seemed to think he was not in any particular trouble or
they would have AT LEAST put an oxygen mask on him and pumped some O2
into his lungs. That might have fixed him up right then.
My bet is everyone was happy that this guy was docile and they didn't
want to wake him up. That was the crime if there was one.

At a certain point I am starting to think they did not value his life
enough but that was long after the take down.


Or they had seen this act before from this guy. He was well known in the
area to the cops, with 31 previous arrests...

Only 22 arrests were for crimes other than selling outlawed cigarettes.
Do you happen to know what those crimes were?


All misdemeanors. Driving without a license. Possession of a small
amount of pot.

A very dangerous threat to his community.

===

I think you'd have to admit that 22 arrests does not exactly make for
a model citizen. How many crimes did he commit and did not get
caught? Would you want him for a neighbor or hanging out in front of
your business? People are supposed to learn from their mistakes.


And 9 more arrests for selling cancer sticks. I wouldn't want him in my
neighborhood, trying to get me started on that steeenkin habit again.

How long have you been smokeless now? I'm going on 15 years. Sure has
made a difference in health, not to mention over $40,000 saved. Damn,
I may have to get me a couple more guns.
--

"When your argument has backed a liberal into a corner,
expect to be called a racist."

Garner Video
 

On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 12:33:13 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/6/2014 9:40 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 09:08:59 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/6/2014 9:01 AM, Let it snowe wrote:
On 12/6/2014 8:10 AM, KC wrote:
On 12/6/2014 12:47 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 05 Dec 2014 19:49:05 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/5/2014 7:28 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 5 Dec 2014 19:14:43 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

CNN ran a long video a little while ago that recorded the
aftermath of
the take down of Garner and the activities of the EMT personnel and
movement of him to an ambulance.

The video showed the EMT checking him for a pulse. It's not clear
what
she said but it appears she indicated he had a pulse.

As they loaded him on a gurney for transport a bystander asked
one of
the cops why they didn't perform CPR. The cop answered that
Garner was
breathing.

If this is all true, it sorta changes the whole story about the cop
choking him to death.

You do know that there was a black female Sargent who was supervising
the arrest of Garner. Why wasn't she subject to indictment for
allowing
a death to occur during her watch?

It does seem like a whole bunch of folks just skipped over that.



“Pantaleo is the only NYPD member facing possible indictment. Others at
the scene, including two sergeants, were offered immunity for their
testimony to the grand jury.”

...NBC news

CNN was reporting today that the EMTs are in trouble. I was just
passing through but I think I heard them say 2 are suspended and 2
were fired.
Considering the death was partially blamed on the position he was held
down in and the fact that cops other than Pantaleo were sitting on
him. I can see why they didn't indict.
Far too much reasonable doubt about any one person causing his death.
It does look like EMS could have done a lot more to keep this guy
alive. They seemed to think he was not in any particular trouble or
they would have AT LEAST put an oxygen mask on him and pumped some O2
into his lungs. That might have fixed him up right then.
My bet is everyone was happy that this guy was docile and they didn't
want to wake him up. That was the crime if there was one.

At a certain point I am starting to think they did not value his life
enough but that was long after the take down.


Or they had seen this act before from this guy. He was well known in the
area to the cops, with 31 previous arrests...

Only 22 arrests were for crimes other than selling outlawed cigarettes.
Do you happen to know what those crimes were?


All misdemeanors. Driving without a license. Possession of a small
amount of pot.

A very dangerous threat to his community.

===

I think you'd have to admit that 22 arrests does not exactly make for
a model citizen. How many crimes did he commit and did not get
caught? Would you want him for a neighbor or hanging out in front of
your business? People are supposed to learn from their mistakes.



No argument. Just not sure the punishment he received fit the crime.


He was taken down - without any unnecessary roughness. His death
occurred well after the 'choke hold' was released. He punished
himself.
--

"When your argument has backed a liberal into a corner,
expect to be called a racist."

Garner Video
 

On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 13:59:07 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/6/2014 1:43 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 13:03:54 -0500, Let it snowe
wrote:

On 12/6/2014 12:33 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/6/2014 9:40 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 09:08:59 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/6/2014 9:01 AM, Let it snowe wrote:
On 12/6/2014 8:10 AM, KC wrote:
On 12/6/2014 12:47 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 05 Dec 2014 19:49:05 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"

wrote:

On 12/5/2014 7:28 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 5 Dec 2014 19:14:43 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

CNN ran a long video a little while ago that recorded the
aftermath of
the take down of Garner and the activities of the EMT
personnel and
movement of him to an ambulance.

The video showed the EMT checking him for a pulse. It's not
clear
what
she said but it appears she indicated he had a pulse.

As they loaded him on a gurney for transport a bystander asked
one of
the cops why they didn't perform CPR. The cop answered that
Garner was
breathing.

If this is all true, it sorta changes the whole story about
the cop
choking him to death.

You do know that there was a black female Sargent who was
supervising
the arrest of Garner. Why wasn't she subject to indictment for
allowing
a death to occur during her watch?

It does seem like a whole bunch of folks just skipped over that.



“Pantaleo is the only NYPD member facing possible indictment.
Others at
the scene, including two sergeants, were offered immunity for their
testimony to the grand jury.”

...NBC news

CNN was reporting today that the EMTs are in trouble. I was just
passing through but I think I heard them say 2 are suspended and 2
were fired.
Considering the death was partially blamed on the position he was
held
down in and the fact that cops other than Pantaleo were sitting on
him. I can see why they didn't indict.
Far too much reasonable doubt about any one person causing his death.
It does look like EMS could have done a lot more to keep this guy
alive. They seemed to think he was not in any particular trouble or
they would have AT LEAST put an oxygen mask on him and pumped some O2
into his lungs. That might have fixed him up right then.
My bet is everyone was happy that this guy was docile and they didn't
want to wake him up. That was the crime if there was one.

At a certain point I am starting to think they did not value his life
enough but that was long after the take down.


Or they had seen this act before from this guy. He was well known
in the
area to the cops, with 31 previous arrests...

Only 22 arrests were for crimes other than selling outlawed cigarettes.
Do you happen to know what those crimes were?


All misdemeanors. Driving without a license. Possession of a small
amount of pot.

A very dangerous threat to his community.

===

I think you'd have to admit that 22 arrests does not exactly make for
a model citizen. How many crimes did he commit and did not get
caught? Would you want him for a neighbor or hanging out in front of
your business? People are supposed to learn from their mistakes.



No argument. Just not sure the punishment he received fit the crime.



He died resisting arrest. He wasn't being punished.

===

That's correct but it does raise the interesting question of what
would be a suitable punishment for a career street criminal with 31
priors. Clearly a $50 fine and a night in the can is not going to get
the job done if the goal is to get him off the street and mend his
ways.



We aren't going to get there by over-punishing the old ones. We might
get there by educating the young ones.

Yippee! Education! Well said, Luddite. Another 'liberal' has seen the
light. First they need to be convinced that the status quo is no way
to go.

It's obvious it isn't happening at home in the inner city environments.
More casual interaction with law enforcement when kids are young
including programs that put kids and law enforcement together for
reasons other than responding to crimes. Sports, school programs,
community activities that demonstrate to the kids that the cops are not
the enemy. Cops might learn something also.

--

"When your argument has backed a liberal into a corner,
expect to be called a racist."