Well ....
 

On 11/18/2014 7:12 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 18 Nov 2014 17:49:08 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 11/18/14 5:09 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 18 Nov 2014 15:41:35 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

Not by the normal definition of subsistence hunting.

BTW I noticed that you ducked the question about taking invasive
exotics.


No, just not playing your change the subject game.

You are talking about hunting. Hog hunting is hunting, in fact a very
popular type of hunting here. That is not changing the subject at all.

For that matter white tail deer are reaching unsustainable populations
all over the country. I bet you think shooting them is wrong too.
Is dying from starvation and disease better than simply being shot?
I suppose we could round them up and kill them in a slaughterhouse.
You think that is OK for other mammals we eat..


Almost hit a deer on my street today, and we are in a development with
1/2 acre lots average... he was coming out of the woods side though. Big
fat one, no antlers, not a hunter so I don't know what that is but I did
think how much nice meat would have been on it.

Well ....
 

On 11/18/2014 6:47 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 11/18/2014 6:17 PM, Califbill wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 18 Nov 2014 12:01:14 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


On 11/18/14 11:15 AM, Poco Loco wrote:

When I kill an animal or bird, TOAD, I eat it for dinner that
night or
the next. If I didn't eat it for dinner, I'd be hungry that night.
Therefore I'm a subsistence hunter.


Or, you could hop on the 'guzi and run down to the supermarket to buy a
nice, thick steak.



My preference ;-)

Thick pork chop, better.



I go along with that. Not overcooked though. Too often chops are
overcooked and dried out.



Just did one of my old fall backs the other night. I take a pork loin
(say 8" long) and a good filet knife and I slice it in a spiral like a
jelly roll to the center and lay it out on the cutting board so I have a
flat rectangle. Sprinkle on a bit of salt and pepper then I lay a layer
of cheese down, followed by a layer of browned crumbled sausage (about a
half pound), and then a layer of spinach leaves. Then I roll the thing
back up into a roast (like I said, it looks like a jelly roll) and tie
it up with cotton butchers string and put it in the oven uncovered in a
glass pan at 350 degrees.. I forget how long, I just watch the meat
thermometer.. Sometimes I lay bacon strips over the top, but others I
rub salt and pepper and bread crumbs then sprinkle with balsamic vinegar
before I put it in the oven... Sorry, just thought I would pass that
along. Also, I have used broccoli instead of spinach, all is good... go
heavy on the greens, it's a great stick to your ribs meal....

Well ....
 

F*O*A*D wrote:
On 11/18/14 7:12 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 18 Nov 2014 17:49:08 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 11/18/14 5:09 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 18 Nov 2014 15:41:35 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

Not by the normal definition of subsistence hunting.

BTW I noticed that you ducked the question about taking invasive
exotics.


No, just not playing your change the subject game.

You are talking about hunting. Hog hunting is hunting, in fact a very
popular type of hunting here. That is not changing the subject at all.

For that matter white tail deer are reaching unsustainable populations
all over the country. I bet you think shooting them is wrong too.
Is dying from starvation and disease better than simply being shot?
I suppose we could round them up and kill them in a slaughterhouse.
You think that is OK for other mammals we eat..


I was discussing subsistence hunting. You know, the sort of hunting
people engage in when they cannot afford to shop at the market or live
out in the wilderness with no markets nearby. I have no objections to subsistence hunting.


Lots of those First Nation people are subsistence hunters, but can afford
to go the market. Traditional and probaly healthier.

Well ....
 

F*O*A*D wrote:
On 11/18/14 7:39 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 18 Nov 2014 18:45:42 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 11/18/2014 5:16 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 18 Nov 2014 16:44:24 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:

On Tue, 18 Nov 2014 15:51:25 -0500, wrote:

Does that mean we should be shooting illegal immigrants?

(just a joke, relax)

If we did that, who would do all of the hard work?

We would starve, nothing would be built and the grass would be over
the house.

And the Democrats would lose lots of votes!

I think the democrats are overestimating the number of immigrants they
are going to pick up. These people may start out as democrats but once
they get their businesses going, they will be republicans and
immigrants are the ones most likely to actually start a small business
... at least that is what we see here.
The biggest factor is usually oppressive regulations that actually
favor the same large corporations the democrats say they are against.
A company like Walmart can afford a compliance division and a staff to
sort through all of this red tape. Jose and Julio's little fruit store
doesn't stand a chance.



Nonsense.

Jose and Julio's are unlikely to start out anywhere near the scale of a
Walmart. Much more likely as a sole proprietorship or simple "S" or
"C" corporation. Very simple and inexpensive process to file.

Jose and Julio will most likely rent or buy a small, existing facility
to conduct their business in. Local codes and rules apply for an
occupancy permit but certainly not a major deal.



You are just talking about their business license (what they call a
business tax receipt in Florida ... fact)
It does not actually allow you to do anything but have a business
address and pay taxes on it. If you are just selling fresh fruit your
store needs to meet a number of health department regulations, you
need to have documentation about where ther fruit actually came from
(a lot of fruit can't even come into Florida) and it has to be clearly
labeled by country of origin. Your stand also needs to meet fire
codes, egress codes, building codes and have an assortment of signs
and placards, perhaps even sprinklers.
If you actually have the gaul to try to sell any kind of prepared food
you have not even scratched the surface of the rules you are dealing
with. When you hire someone to work behind the counter there is
another bureaucracy that kicks in (IRS, OSHA, the Labor department
several kinds of insurance)
All that and you might even have a DEA SWAT team come in and dump out
all of your fruit boxes looking for dope.

You really should talk to my buddy Ammet who runs the little stand at
the end of my street. He will tell you about things I forgot.


Ahh...libertarianism...no regs because tainted food makes you strong.


Change focus again.

Well ....
 

"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 11/18/2014 6:17 PM, Califbill wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 18 Nov 2014 12:01:14 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


On 11/18/14 11:15 AM, Poco Loco wrote:

When I kill an animal or bird, TOAD, I eat it for dinner that night or
the next. If I didn't eat it for dinner, I'd be hungry that night.
Therefore I'm a subsistence hunter.


Or, you could hop on the 'guzi and run down to the supermarket to buy a
nice, thick steak.



My preference ;-)

Thick pork chop, better.



I go along with that. Not overcooked though. Too often chops are overcooked and dried out.

Pork loin chop, fried with onions and peppers, and russet potatoes. Mucho
tastee. Maybe not an often meal for health.

Well ....
 

On 11/18/14 8:14 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 18 Nov 2014 19:30:04 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 11/18/14 7:12 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 18 Nov 2014 17:49:08 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 11/18/14 5:09 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 18 Nov 2014 15:41:35 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

Not by the normal definition of subsistence hunting.

BTW I noticed that you ducked the question about taking invasive
exotics.


No, just not playing your change the subject game.

You are talking about hunting. Hog hunting is hunting, in fact a very
popular type of hunting here. That is not changing the subject at all.

For that matter white tail deer are reaching unsustainable populations
all over the country. I bet you think shooting them is wrong too.
Is dying from starvation and disease better than simply being shot?
I suppose we could round them up and kill them in a slaughterhouse.
You think that is OK for other mammals we eat..


I was discussing subsistence hunting. You know, the sort of hunting
people engage in when they cannot afford to shop at the market or live
out in the wilderness with no markets nearby. I have no objections to
subsistence hunting.

I was just trying to figure out where you do draw the line.

"Subsistence hunting" sounds like a cop out to me.
Do you really care about the animals or is it just a way to slam a few
Rec Boats posters again?

A true subsistence hunter will have far less respect for the resource
than a sport hunter. Little things like bag limits, closed seasons and
protected species would not affect anyone who thought it was shoot or
starve.



I'm not drawing lines. I'm merely stating I have no objections to
subsistence hunting as it is generally described.

--
Just because you are opposed to abortion doesn’t make you pro-life. Your
morality is deeply lacking if all you want is a child born but not a
child fed, not a child educated, not a child housed, not a child
clothed, not a child able to see the doctor. That’s not pro-life…that’s
pro-birth.

Well ....
 

wrote:
On Tue, 18 Nov 2014 20:27:12 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

I'm not drawing lines. I'm merely stating I have no objections to
subsistence hunting as it is generally described.

It does sound like you are saying homeless people could corner a fawn
in your neighborhood, beat it to death with baseball bats and that
would be OK if they were hungry enough.

You are trying much too hard.
--
Sent from my iPhone 6+

Well ....
 

On 11/18/14 8:28 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 18 Nov 2014 19:57:53 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

Ahh...libertarianism...no regs because tainted food makes you strong.

That is the problem with you Harry. You can't see the difference
between reasonable regulation and oppressive regulation that only a
corporate compliance department can deal with.
You complain about Walmart running the Mom and Pop operations out of
business but you won't admit, over regulation is part of the problem.
The fact remains that a 200,000 square foot Walmart has just about the
same regulatory burden as a 200 square foot fruit stand. Who do you
think can absorb it easier?



We have lots of roadside produce stands around here. Dozens. The regs
they must follow can't be that burdensome. As a libertarian, you're
against most regs, right?

--
Just because you are opposed to abortion doesn’t make you pro-life. Your
morality is deeply lacking if all you want is a child born but not a
child fed, not a child educated, not a child housed, not a child
clothed, not a child able to see the doctor. That’s not pro-life…that’s
pro-birth.

Well ....
 

On 11/18/2014 7:39 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 18 Nov 2014 18:45:42 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 11/18/2014 5:16 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 18 Nov 2014 16:44:24 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:

On Tue, 18 Nov 2014 15:51:25 -0500, wrote:

Does that mean we should be shooting illegal immigrants?

(just a joke, relax)

If we did that, who would do all of the hard work?

We would starve, nothing would be built and the grass would be over
the house.

And the Democrats would lose lots of votes!

I think the democrats are overestimating the number of immigrants they
are going to pick up. These people may start out as democrats but once
they get their businesses going, they will be republicans and
immigrants are the ones most likely to actually start a small business
... at least that is what we see here.
The biggest factor is usually oppressive regulations that actually
favor the same large corporations the democrats say they are against.
A company like Walmart can afford a compliance division and a staff to
sort through all of this red tape. Jose and Julio's little fruit store
doesn't stand a chance.



Nonsense.

Jose and Julio's are unlikely to start out anywhere near the scale of a
Walmart. Much more likely as a sole proprietorship or simple "S" or
"C" corporation. Very simple and inexpensive process to file.

Jose and Julio will most likely rent or buy a small, existing facility
to conduct their business in. Local codes and rules apply for an
occupancy permit but certainly not a major deal.



You are just talking about their business license (what they call a
business tax receipt in Florida ... fact)
It does not actually allow you to do anything but have a business
address and pay taxes on it. If you are just selling fresh fruit your
store needs to meet a number of health department regulations, you
need to have documentation about where ther fruit actually came from
(a lot of fruit can't even come into Florida) and it has to be clearly
labeled by country of origin. Your stand also needs to meet fire
codes, egress codes, building codes and have an assortment of signs
and placards, perhaps even sprinklers.
If you actually have the gaul to try to sell any kind of prepared food
you have not even scratched the surface of the rules you are dealing
with. When you hire someone to work behind the counter there is
another bureaucracy that kicks in (IRS, OSHA, the Labor department
several kinds of insurance)
All that and you might even have a DEA SWAT team come in and dump out
all of your fruit boxes looking for dope.

You really should talk to my buddy Ammet who runs the little stand at
the end of my street. He will tell you about things I forgot.



Sounds like you live in a nanny state. :-)

I've been through the process several times.
The first was for an engineering/metal fab company that ultimately
employed over 70 people in a 40,000 sq.ft. facility.
Took all of 2 or 3 days to purchase and install the required fire
extinguishers, update the exit signs, build an area to house the various
high pressure gas cylinders (argon, nitrogen, oxygen, propane etc.)

All requirements were outlined for us by a courtesy visit by the fire
department and building inspector. They came back a week later, did the
sign off inspection and we were open for business. 24 years later it's
still in business under different ownership and management.

While operating that business I also bought a small breakfast and lunch
shop that was going to close. It was in the park that my business was
located and was a popular place for people to have breakfast and get
lunches. The woman who owned it was retiring, so I bought it and hired
the former employees who had worked there to run it. I became very
familiar with the food handling requirements, inspections and licenses.
None were an issue to speak of and a license was granted in less than
a week. Biggest issue was keeping the grease traps clean.
Interesting experience but not my bag. I ended up selling it to the
employees on a simple time payment schedule that they could afford.

Then, years later, when I decided to open the guitar shop/performance
venue, I went through the process again. There was a bit of a
controversy because we had seating and a stage for live performances as
well as the retail area for guitar and amp sales. A question arose as
to our status being "retail" or "place of assembly". The codes are
different. After discussions between the fire department and the
building inspector that took all of about 3 minutes, the issue was
resolved and we were issued an occupancy permit.

Point is, it wasn't a very involved process in any of the three cases.
No "red tape" to speak of other than going to the respective town hall,
filling out the applications and equipping the buildings with whatever
was required by the fire department primarily.

Biggest issue was with the electrical inspectors for the guitar shop.
They tend to have their own ideas on what they like to see. I had done a
lot of new wiring myself for the stage, stage lights, etc. without
bothering with a permit, so I was a little apprehensive when he arrived
for the occupancy permit inspection. He checked everything out and asked
who did the new wiring. I told him "Me", expecting all hell to break
loose but he said it was all fine. I've learned that everyone needs to
feel they did their job so when he insisted that the exit lights be
changed to the newer, LED types and the electrical room have a sign on
the door saying. "Electrical Room", I was happy to accomodate him.
That was easy enough.

Well ....
 

On 11/18/2014 8:28 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 18 Nov 2014 19:57:53 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

Ahh...libertarianism...no regs because tainted food makes you strong.

That is the problem with you Harry. You can't see the difference
between reasonable regulation and oppressive regulation that only a
corporate compliance department can deal with.
You complain about Walmart running the Mom and Pop operations out of
business but you won't admit, over regulation is part of the problem.
The fact remains that a 200,000 square foot Walmart has just about the
same regulatory burden as a 200 square foot fruit stand. Who do you
think can absorb it easier?



I don't believe that.