[Mr. Luddite]

On 11/3/2014 4:46 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 03 Nov 2014 16:02:41 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


You think the authorities are going to come knocking on your door?

You might get a warm feeling about this but if they were going to come
knocking on your door, they still will. Murders are usually solved by
motive and opportunity if they don't just catch the guy with the gun
(most acquaintance murders and suicides)

If the person you sold the gun to was a total stranger, this might
help you, but John already said he would go though a FFL with a
stranger. I might just settle for a bill of sale that had the driver's
license number on it. (maybe a picture of the guy or his car, with
tag) I took a picture of the FFL who bought my machine gun standing by
his truck with the tag showing.
If this is a family member or close friend, you are probably still on
the suspect list if they did not report it stolen/lost and you have a
link to the victim or you look like the suspect..

When you are in a state without required registrations "I sold it" is
still a defense. They still have to put you at the scene of the crime
with a plausible reason you might kill this person.

BTW the chance that they can or would actually trace a gun back to the
original buyer are pretty slim. If you do know the guy who bought it
from you, you can still finger the guy and a signed bill of sale is
certainly a plus.



I chuckled a little with your descriptions of creative ways to prove you
sold or transferred a gun to someone.

Why not just use the existing system that has been in use successfully
for many years. It's in place and recognized as valid proof of transfer
throughout the country.

[Poco Loco]

On Mon, 03 Nov 2014 17:00:56 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 11/3/2014 4:46 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 03 Nov 2014 16:02:41 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


You think the authorities are going to come knocking on your door?

You might get a warm feeling about this but if they were going to come
knocking on your door, they still will. Murders are usually solved by
motive and opportunity if they don't just catch the guy with the gun
(most acquaintance murders and suicides)

If the person you sold the gun to was a total stranger, this might
help you, but John already said he would go though a FFL with a
stranger. I might just settle for a bill of sale that had the driver's
license number on it. (maybe a picture of the guy or his car, with
tag) I took a picture of the FFL who bought my machine gun standing by
his truck with the tag showing.
If this is a family member or close friend, you are probably still on
the suspect list if they did not report it stolen/lost and you have a
link to the victim or you look like the suspect..

When you are in a state without required registrations "I sold it" is
still a defense. They still have to put you at the scene of the crime
with a plausible reason you might kill this person.

BTW the chance that they can or would actually trace a gun back to the
original buyer are pretty slim. If you do know the guy who bought it
from you, you can still finger the guy and a signed bill of sale is
certainly a plus.



I chuckled a little with your descriptions of creative ways to prove you
sold or transferred a gun to someone.

Why not just use the existing system that has been in use successfully
for many years. It's in place and recognized as valid proof of transfer
throughout the country.


My way is free, for one thing, and it requires no running around the
countryside looking for an FFL who is home and wants to 'do the deed'.
What is so 'creative' about the transfer form I've shown you several
times.

[Mr. Luddite]

On 11/3/2014 7:06 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 03 Nov 2014 17:00:56 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 11/3/2014 4:46 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 03 Nov 2014 16:02:41 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


You think the authorities are going to come knocking on your door?

You might get a warm feeling about this but if they were going to come
knocking on your door, they still will. Murders are usually solved by
motive and opportunity if they don't just catch the guy with the gun
(most acquaintance murders and suicides)

If the person you sold the gun to was a total stranger, this might
help you, but John already said he would go though a FFL with a
stranger. I might just settle for a bill of sale that had the driver's
license number on it. (maybe a picture of the guy or his car, with
tag) I took a picture of the FFL who bought my machine gun standing by
his truck with the tag showing.
If this is a family member or close friend, you are probably still on
the suspect list if they did not report it stolen/lost and you have a
link to the victim or you look like the suspect..

When you are in a state without required registrations "I sold it" is
still a defense. They still have to put you at the scene of the crime
with a plausible reason you might kill this person.

BTW the chance that they can or would actually trace a gun back to the
original buyer are pretty slim. If you do know the guy who bought it
from you, you can still finger the guy and a signed bill of sale is
certainly a plus.



I chuckled a little with your descriptions of creative ways to prove you
sold or transferred a gun to someone.

Why not just use the existing system that has been in use successfully
for many years. It's in place and recognized as valid proof of transfer
throughout the country.


If "throughout the country" is true if you are just talking about the
8 states that regulate private sales.



Greg, the whole debate is about expanding the number of states that
regulate private sales pr make it universal throughout the USA. It's on
the ballot in Washington (state) tomorrow. Ironically there are two
initiatives. Initiative 591 would ban background checks on firearms,
unless in compliance with federal standards. The second, Initiative 594
would require universal background checks on all gun purchases.

The second (594) has a 2:1 support level according to polls.

[Mr. Luddite]

On 11/3/2014 7:30 PM, BAR wrote:
In article ,
says...

On 11/3/2014 7:06 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 03 Nov 2014 17:00:56 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 11/3/2014 4:46 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 03 Nov 2014 16:02:41 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


You think the authorities are going to come knocking on your door?

You might get a warm feeling about this but if they were going to come
knocking on your door, they still will. Murders are usually solved by
motive and opportunity if they don't just catch the guy with the gun
(most acquaintance murders and suicides)

If the person you sold the gun to was a total stranger, this might
help you, but John already said he would go though a FFL with a
stranger. I might just settle for a bill of sale that had the driver's
license number on it. (maybe a picture of the guy or his car, with
tag) I took a picture of the FFL who bought my machine gun standing by
his truck with the tag showing.
If this is a family member or close friend, you are probably still on
the suspect list if they did not report it stolen/lost and you have a
link to the victim or you look like the suspect..

When you are in a state without required registrations "I sold it" is
still a defense. They still have to put you at the scene of the crime
with a plausible reason you might kill this person.

BTW the chance that they can or would actually trace a gun back to the
original buyer are pretty slim. If you do know the guy who bought it
from you, you can still finger the guy and a signed bill of sale is
certainly a plus.



I chuckled a little with your descriptions of creative ways to prove you
sold or transferred a gun to someone.

Why not just use the existing system that has been in use successfully
for many years. It's in place and recognized as valid proof of transfer
throughout the country.


If "throughout the country" is true if you are just talking about the
8 states that regulate private sales.



Greg, the whole debate is about expanding the number of states that
regulate private sales pr make it universal throughout the USA. It's on
the ballot in Washington (state) tomorrow. Ironically there are two
initiatives. Initiative 591 would ban background checks on firearms,
unless in compliance with federal standards. The second, Initiative 594
would require universal background checks on all gun purchases.

The second (594) has a 2:1 support level according to polls.

I would assume that you are in favor of requiring proof of citizenship
and proof of residency in the precinct you want to cast your ballot too.


Absolutely. At the same time I can understand that some people may
have a hard time producing "proof" of citizenship or age so I am open to
alternative ways other than SS numbers, Drivers Id, etc. Affidavits by
friends/family/employers can suffice in some cases. The proof
requirements should be reasonable but require some effort to produce.
Nobody should be able to just verbally declare themselves a citizen, 18
years or older in order to vote.

[Mr. Luddite]

On 11/3/2014 7:28 PM, BAR wrote:
In article ,
says...

On 11/3/2014 4:46 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 03 Nov 2014 16:02:41 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


You think the authorities are going to come knocking on your door?

You might get a warm feeling about this but if they were going to come
knocking on your door, they still will. Murders are usually solved by
motive and opportunity if they don't just catch the guy with the gun
(most acquaintance murders and suicides)

If the person you sold the gun to was a total stranger, this might
help you, but John already said he would go though a FFL with a
stranger. I might just settle for a bill of sale that had the driver's
license number on it. (maybe a picture of the guy or his car, with
tag) I took a picture of the FFL who bought my machine gun standing by
his truck with the tag showing.
If this is a family member or close friend, you are probably still on
the suspect list if they did not report it stolen/lost and you have a
link to the victim or you look like the suspect..

When you are in a state without required registrations "I sold it" is
still a defense. They still have to put you at the scene of the crime
with a plausible reason you might kill this person.

BTW the chance that they can or would actually trace a gun back to the
original buyer are pretty slim. If you do know the guy who bought it
from you, you can still finger the guy and a signed bill of sale is
certainly a plus.



I chuckled a little with your descriptions of creative ways to prove you
sold or transferred a gun to someone.

Why not just use the existing system that has been in use successfully
for many years. It's in place and recognized as valid proof of transfer
throughout the country.



You mean the one that has existed for the 400 years we have been in
North America?

Next time I have to fend off an Indian attack with a musket I'll let you
know.