On 9/26/14 12:04 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 26 Sep 2014 11:52:21 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 9/26/14 11:45 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 26 Sep 2014 10:51:28 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 9/26/14 10:41 AM, wrote:

The best I can tell none of the inline motors even offer electronic
controls (200). If the model number ends in an A it is mechanical and
B means electronic. (like F250*A and F250*B)


Once again, a number of the outboard rigs I looked at recently at a
dealer's showroom had electronic controls. I suspect a lot of rigs on
display at the upcoming Ft. Lauderdale and Miami boat shows will have
outboards with electronic controls, and in the not so distant future,
the electronic controls will extend downward into the inline cylinder
head engines. In the end, it will be cheaper to control outboards
electronically.

Dealers are going to show the highest profit lines on their floor

They may have a few cheaper boats around, just to have something
people can afford but they are in business to maximize profits.

This electronic thing may be a higher profit to Yamaha but it is not
cheaper for the customer and it is not going to be as reliable over
time.
You are trading a cable for an electronic control center and the
actuators in the motor. You still end up with a cable but it is
electrical instead of just a stiff wire. The mechanical linkage in the
motor does not change that much.
The way Yamaha markets this right now does make sense tho If you are
running trip or quad outboards, electronic controllers do reduce
complexity.
In a single or even twins ... not so much. It is extra complexity with
very little added functionality.



Funny stuff. I reported what I saw, and I'm predicting what might happen
with electronic controls for outboards in the future, and you're playing
Flatlander. Wait until you get to Pointland.

I suppose if fly by wire were as unreliable as you claim, you wouldn't
find it in airliners. Oh, wait...

Are we using a little false equivalency (or whatever bull**** term you
come up with)

Yeah a $7,000 outboard is exactly like a $200 million airplane.




It's only a matter of time. There are plenty of boats out there with
electronic controls. You're just a "decrepit tech" kind of guy.

On 9/26/2014 3:43 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 26 Sep 2014 12:12:55 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 9/26/14 12:04 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 26 Sep 2014 11:52:21 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:


Funny stuff. I reported what I saw, and I'm predicting what might happen
with electronic controls for outboards in the future, and you're playing
Flatlander. Wait until you get to Pointland.

I suppose if fly by wire were as unreliable as you claim, you wouldn't
find it in airliners. Oh, wait...

Are we using a little false equivalency (or whatever bull**** term you
come up with)

Yeah a $7,000 outboard is exactly like a $200 million airplane.




It's only a matter of time. There are plenty of boats out there with
electronic controls. You're just a "decrepit tech" kind of guy.


I am just not a fan of changing something that works, simply because a
company can make more money by selling me something with no added
benefit.

You luddite, you.

Greg, I'm glad you brought up AMC, in 1983 they were prototyping a gas over electric hybrid car then. I suppose it was dropped due to insufficient battery technology at the day. If they'd made it reliable at the time it probably would have saved the company...

Actually I know you were talking about OMC the marine outboard company, but I thought I'd throw the AMC story in there to show that a lot of new stuff today was used years ago.

Yes the electric shift on the outboards was really cool and was reasonably reliable. My pontoons 85 horse Evinrude had it and I had no problems with it for the two years I ran it.

On 9/27/14 3:18 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 27 Sep 2014 10:32:28 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

Actually I know you were talking about OMC the marine outboard company, but I thought I'd throw the AMC story in there to show that a lot of new stuff today was used years ago.

Yes the electric shift on the outboards was really cool and was reasonably reliable. My pontoons 85 horse Evinrude had it and I had no problems with it for the two years I ran it.

Mopar had it on the old Torqeflight tranny too.
It just seems like unnecessary complexity for a fairly simple
mechanism. My wife's Lincoln doesn't have electric shifting and it has
more doodads than anyone really needs.
Like I said, if I had trips or quads, it would make sense.
Maybe those are the boats that attract Harry's attention.
I look at them like fashion models. They are fun to look at but too
expensive and too high maintenance for me.



Again with the fallacious assumptions. None of the boats I saw with
electronically controlled engines were trips or quads. In all the year
I've been boating on the Bay, I doubt if I have seen more than a handful
of boats with triple outboards, and the only time I have seen a quad was
last spring down in Ft. Lauderdale. My guess is at the upcoming Miami
powerboat show, there will be plenty of outboard boats on display with
electronic controls. Not everyone disdains technological advances as
much as you.

On Sat, 27 Sep 2014 15:35:38 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

Again with the fallacious assumptions. None of the boats I saw with
electronically controlled engines were trips or quads. In all the year
I've been boating on the Bay, I doubt if I have seen more than a handful
of boats with triple outboards

===

I've seen at least a dozen in the last couple of days running through
the ICW in North Carolina and South Carolina. The Chesapeake seems to
have a lot more classic inboard fishing boats than many other places.

On 9/27/14 4:32 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 27 Sep 2014 15:35:38 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 9/27/14 3:18 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 27 Sep 2014 10:32:28 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

Actually I know you were talking about OMC the marine outboard company, but I thought I'd throw the AMC story in there to show that a lot of new stuff today was used years ago.

Yes the electric shift on the outboards was really cool and was reasonably reliable. My pontoons 85 horse Evinrude had it and I had no problems with it for the two years I ran it.

Mopar had it on the old Torqeflight tranny too.
It just seems like unnecessary complexity for a fairly simple
mechanism. My wife's Lincoln doesn't have electric shifting and it has
more doodads than anyone really needs.
Like I said, if I had trips or quads, it would make sense.
Maybe those are the boats that attract Harry's attention.
I look at them like fashion models. They are fun to look at but too
expensive and too high maintenance for me.



Again with the fallacious assumptions. None of the boats I saw with
electronically controlled engines were trips or quads. In all the year
I've been boating on the Bay, I doubt if I have seen more than a handful
of boats with triple outboards, and the only time I have seen a quad was
last spring down in Ft. Lauderdale. My guess is at the upcoming Miami
powerboat show, there will be plenty of outboard boats on display with
electronic controls. Not everyone disdains technological advances as
much as you.

The open question is whether this is actually an "advance". What
exactly are they advancing except corporate profits, something you
usually attack. They are fixing a problem that doesn't exist. They are
replacing a $40 cable with an $1100 electronic control option (the
difference in price on a Yamaha F200 with and without DEC) plus
whatever the difference is in controllers.



Well, then, you probably shouldn't equip your next V6 or V8 outboard
with electronic controls.

On 9/27/14 5:54 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 27 Sep 2014 16:53:38 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 9/27/14 4:32 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 27 Sep 2014 15:35:38 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 9/27/14 3:18 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 27 Sep 2014 10:32:28 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

Actually I know you were talking about OMC the marine outboard company, but I thought I'd throw the AMC story in there to show that a lot of new stuff today was used years ago.

Yes the electric shift on the outboards was really cool and was reasonably reliable. My pontoons 85 horse Evinrude had it and I had no problems with it for the two years I ran it.

Mopar had it on the old Torqeflight tranny too.
It just seems like unnecessary complexity for a fairly simple
mechanism. My wife's Lincoln doesn't have electric shifting and it has
more doodads than anyone really needs.
Like I said, if I had trips or quads, it would make sense.
Maybe those are the boats that attract Harry's attention.
I look at them like fashion models. They are fun to look at but too
expensive and too high maintenance for me.



Again with the fallacious assumptions. None of the boats I saw with
electronically controlled engines were trips or quads. In all the year
I've been boating on the Bay, I doubt if I have seen more than a handful
of boats with triple outboards, and the only time I have seen a quad was
last spring down in Ft. Lauderdale. My guess is at the upcoming Miami
powerboat show, there will be plenty of outboard boats on display with
electronic controls. Not everyone disdains technological advances as
much as you.

The open question is whether this is actually an "advance". What
exactly are they advancing except corporate profits, something you
usually attack. They are fixing a problem that doesn't exist. They are
replacing a $40 cable with an $1100 electronic control option (the
difference in price on a Yamaha F200 with and without DEC) plus
whatever the difference is in controllers.



Well, then, you probably shouldn't equip your next V6 or V8 outboard
with electronic controls.

Your contention was that this was going to come down to midrange.

If I can believe the slick ads, 250s and 350s are all used in 2s or
3s..
If you are spending $50,000-125,000 on motors, what the hell is
another couple grand?

I see a Yellowfin 36 running around here with twin Seven Marines. I
bet some corporation is paying for that.


Yamaha 150s and 200s in twin configurations are popular around here. I
wouldn't be surprised to see electronic controls being made available
for them.

On 9/27/2014 4:32 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 27 Sep 2014 15:35:38 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 9/27/14 3:18 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 27 Sep 2014 10:32:28 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

Actually I know you were talking about OMC the marine outboard company, but I thought I'd throw the AMC story in there to show that a lot of new stuff today was used years ago.

Yes the electric shift on the outboards was really cool and was reasonably reliable. My pontoons 85 horse Evinrude had it and I had no problems with it for the two years I ran it.

Mopar had it on the old Torqeflight tranny too.
It just seems like unnecessary complexity for a fairly simple
mechanism. My wife's Lincoln doesn't have electric shifting and it has
more doodads than anyone really needs.
Like I said, if I had trips or quads, it would make sense.
Maybe those are the boats that attract Harry's attention.
I look at them like fashion models. They are fun to look at but too
expensive and too high maintenance for me.



Again with the fallacious assumptions. None of the boats I saw with
electronically controlled engines were trips or quads. In all the year
I've been boating on the Bay, I doubt if I have seen more than a handful
of boats with triple outboards, and the only time I have seen a quad was
last spring down in Ft. Lauderdale. My guess is at the upcoming Miami
powerboat show, there will be plenty of outboard boats on display with
electronic controls. Not everyone disdains technological advances as
much as you.

The open question is whether this is actually an "advance". What
exactly are they advancing except corporate profits, something you
usually attack. They are fixing a problem that doesn't exist. They are
replacing a $40 cable with an $1100 electronic control option (the
difference in price on a Yamaha F200 with and without DEC) plus
whatever the difference is in controllers.



Probably just following Detroit's lead. When power windows and door
locks were first introduced they were a novelty reserved for high-end
car models. Now they are standard in just about every car, mainly
because the electric motors and solenoids are cheaper to manufacture
than a manual, crank powered window or lock assembly.

On 9/26/14 3:43 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 26 Sep 2014 12:12:55 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 9/26/14 12:04 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 26 Sep 2014 11:52:21 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:


Funny stuff. I reported what I saw, and I'm predicting what might happen
with electronic controls for outboards in the future, and you're playing
Flatlander. Wait until you get to Pointland.

I suppose if fly by wire were as unreliable as you claim, you wouldn't
find it in airliners. Oh, wait...

Are we using a little false equivalency (or whatever bull**** term you
come up with)

Yeah a $7,000 outboard is exactly like a $200 million airplane.




It's only a matter of time. There are plenty of boats out there with
electronic controls. You're just a "decrepit tech" kind of guy.

I am just not a fan of changing something that works, simply because a
company can make more money by selling me something with no added
benefit.


I thought you'd love it...after all, it'll help eliminate the jobs of
most of the riggers who have to feed heavy cables through the bilges.