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Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
I want to clarify the method used to calculate the value of S.S. When taken at 62yrs vs 66yrs. I'll assume the following benefits $1,500 at 62 and $2,049 at 66. 1500 x 1nn% = yy or one month benefit plus interest yy x 1nn% = yy or two months benefit plus interest ….... ….... yy x 1nn% =yy or 12 months benefit plus interest yy minus taxes paid = new yy repeat for 4 years and save yearly values ""I will use this calculator to do this."" http://www.thecalculatorsite.com/fin...calculator.php Using 8% annual growth compounded monthly. year one $18,799 minus 15% = $15,979 year two $36,105 minus 15% = $30,689 year three $52,036 minus 15% = $44,231 year four $66,702 minus 15% = $56,697 $56,697 x 0.08% = $4,536* $4,536 is the interest earned on four years of savings. $1,500 x 12 mo = $18,000 Yearly Benefit at 62. If I add $4,536* to $18,000 = $22,436 Benefit at 62 plus interested earned on 4 years of savings. $2,049 x 12mo = $24,588 Benefit at 66 $24,588 - $22,436 = ($2,052) So the 62yr benefit saved for four years plus interest is $2052 less than 66 yr benefit. Or you could make up the difference for about 20 years by spending enough of the savings to be even. This has to be calculated to find exactly how many years, but it's not simple. Ok this is my first iteration. I think 8% interest is optimistic. I know I could add in COLA, but it goes into both so I think it's a wash. What should I change? Mikek |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 21:13:01 -0400, BAR wrote:
The idea that the money in your 401k will be taxed at a lower rate than when you were working is a joke. SS is going to be a means tested welfare program. There is nothing stopping you from pulling money out of your 401k/IRA when you are 59 1/2 and investing it in other investment vehicles. === What stops you is having all of your funds become immediately taxable. You're far better off to let your returns roll forward untaxed until you withdraw them. I'm personally of the opinion that it is better to roll 401K money into an IRA however. An IRA usually offers lower fees and a wider choice of investments. |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 21:22:22 -0400, BAR wrote:
That equates to 70,000,000 people with nothing else to do by yell and scream and vote to keept the SS retirement they earned === As well they should. |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
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Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
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Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 21:22:22 -0400, BAR wrote: That equates to 70,000,000 people with nothing else to do by yell and scream and vote to keept the SS retirement they earned === As well they should. But a lot of those SS people did not put in anywhere enough to pay for an insurance and annuity policy. Was not the national retirement act. Was the widows and children's act. To keep them from starving. Was LBJ who raised the vig and the payouts to pay for an unfunded war. So we are still paying for SEA. |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
BAR wrote:
In article , says... On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 15:30:01 -0500, amdx wrote: On 8/10/2014 10:22 AM, wrote: On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 09:54:41 -0500, amdx wrote: I want to clarify the method used to calculate the value of S.S. When taken at 62yrs vs 66yrs. I'll assume the following benefits $1,500 at 62 and $2,049 at 66. 1500 x 1nn% = yy or one month benefit plus interest yy x 1nn% = yy or two months benefit plus interest ?.... ?.... yy x 1nn% =yy or 12 months benefit plus interest yy minus taxes paid = new yy repeat for 4 years and save yearly values ""I will use this calculator to do this."" http://www.thecalculatorsite.com/fin...calculator.php Using 8% annual growth compounded monthly. year one $18,799 minus 15% = $15,979 year two $36,105 minus 15% = $30,689 year three $52,036 minus 15% = $44,231 year four $66,702 minus 15% = $56,697 $56,697 x 0.08% = $4,536* $4,536 is the interest earned on four years of savings. $1,500 x 12 mo = $18,000 Yearly Benefit at 62. If I add $4,536* to $18,000 = $22,436 Benefit at 62 plus interested earned on 4 years of savings. $2,049 x 12mo = $24,588 Benefit at 66 $24,588 - $22,436 = ($2,052) So the 62yr benefit saved for four years plus interest is $2052 less than 66 yr benefit. Or you could make up the difference for about 20 years by spending enough of the savings to be even. This has to be calculated to find exactly how many years, but it's not simple. Ok this is my first iteration. I think 8% interest is optimistic. I know I could add in COLA, but it goes into both so I think it's a wash. What should I change? Mikek All of these calculations assume SS will continue forever at the current pace. (benefits ratio, COLAs, tax treatment etc) That's about all we can do, my crystal ball works great except when I use it to predict the future. It is clear that there is a move to "reform" the program and that means reduced benefits somewhere. The last "reform" started taxing 85% of the benefits at normal tax rates for anyone who has any other significant income. Taking your required withdrawals from your 401k will put most people over this threshold. A pension is a slam dunk. I just hope they don't means test or asset test. I suspect if you earned it and saved it, they'll find a way to get it. Mikek Count on it. The millennials are going to throw grandma from the (gravy) train as soon as they figure out how to vote. The idea that the money in your 401k will be taxed at a lower rate than when you were working is a joke. SS is going to be a means tested welfare program. There is nothing stopping you from pulling money out of your 401k/IRA when you are 59 1/2 and investing it in other investment vehicles. You pay taxes now or later. I go later. And all my 401k's are now IRAs. |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
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Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
wrote:
On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 23:51:40 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 23:36:29 -0400, wrote: On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 23:24:15 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: We'll see. There are a lot more senior citizens now than there were in the 80s, and we are organized, and we vote. I think it would be political suicide for anyone trying to increase SS taxes beyond today's onerous levels. At least I don't have New York and New Jersey reaching into my pocket anymore, and our property taxes are only 25% of what we used to pay in the NY 'burbs. Dockage is cheaper also. :-) It all depends on whether the kids start voting their interests. When their FICA taxes start being more than their income tax, they might wake up. For some it is more now, they just don't know because Sammy takes it before they see their check. === Isn't it true that the people with good jobs are very much a minority? The government will eventually "fix" social security by either fudging the cost of living calculations or eliminating COLA entirely. That will be followed by a round of hyper inflation. The "official" rate of inflation is already being fudged a great deal, and hyper inflation with a weak dollar is the inevitable consequence of long term defecit spending. I think the whole concept of SS/Pensions is in for a reality shock. No matter how you slice it, you can't have as many people "retired" as the demographics predict. We are already seeing the SS problem since it is upside down for the first time in history. The supporters are simply in denial about that. The next shoe to drop will be the effect on the equities market when the boomers start drawing down their 401ks and spending that money. That is money that will leave the market and will not be back. The Fed can't keep printing money out of thin air forever too cover our debt and to keep investment growing. I think that is why we have the 1% now. If those people actually tried to spend some of those unrealized capital gains Harry is so mad that they have, the whole house of cards would collapse. They keep the market going with money they will never take out and spend. Most of that money is just an illusion, numbers in a computer representing nothing and simply making it look like we are prosperous as a whole. The housing bubble and the dot com bubble were just a sneak peak at the debt and phony money bubble we have coming. It might happen as soon as Warren Buffett dies and they try to liquidate Berkshire Hathaway for charity as he promised. You should change your handle to Mr. Apocalypse. 😳 -- Posted from my iPhone |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
wrote:
On 11 Aug 2014 13:44:42 GMT, F.O.A.D. wrote: You should change your handle to Mr. Apocalypse. ? I heard the same thing when I was predicting the housing crash. You seem to revel in it. 😧 -- Posted from my iPhone |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
wrote:
On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 15:30:01 -0500, amdx wrote: On 8/10/2014 10:22 AM, wrote: On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 09:54:41 -0500, amdx wrote: I want to clarify the method used to calculate the value of S.S. When taken at 62yrs vs 66yrs. I'll assume the following benefits $1,500 at 62 and $2,049 at 66. 1500 x 1nn% = yy or one month benefit plus interest yy x 1nn% = yy or two months benefit plus interest ….... ….... yy x 1nn% =yy or 12 months benefit plus interest yy minus taxes paid = new yy repeat for 4 years and save yearly values ""I will use this calculator to do this."" http://www.thecalculatorsite.com/fin...calculator.php Using 8% annual growth compounded monthly. year one $18,799 minus 15% = $15,979 year two $36,105 minus 15% = $30,689 year three $52,036 minus 15% = $44,231 year four $66,702 minus 15% = $56,697 $56,697 x 0.08% = $4,536* $4,536 is the interest earned on four years of savings. $1,500 x 12 mo = $18,000 Yearly Benefit at 62. If I add $4,536* to $18,000 = $22,436 Benefit at 62 plus interested earned on 4 years of savings. $2,049 x 12mo = $24,588 Benefit at 66 $24,588 - $22,436 = ($2,052) So the 62yr benefit saved for four years plus interest is $2052 less than 66 yr benefit. Or you could make up the difference for about 20 years by spending enough of the savings to be even. This has to be calculated to find exactly how many years, but it's not simple. Ok this is my first iteration. I think 8% interest is optimistic. I know I could add in COLA, but it goes into both so I think it's a wash. What should I change? Mikek All of these calculations assume SS will continue forever at the current pace. (benefits ratio, COLAs, tax treatment etc) That's about all we can do, my crystal ball works great except when I use it to predict the future. It is clear that there is a move to "reform" the program and that means reduced benefits somewhere. The last "reform" started taxing 85% of the benefits at normal tax rates for anyone who has any other significant income. Taking your required withdrawals from your 401k will put most people over this threshold. A pension is a slam dunk. I just hope they don't means test or asset test. I suspect if you earned it and saved it, they'll find a way to get it. Mikek Count on it. The millennials are going to throw grandma from the (gravy) train as soon as they figure out how to vote. The idea that the money in your 401k will be taxed at a lower rate than when you were working is a joke. SS is going to be a means tested welfare program. This is funny no matter what side you're on... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9pqmW-D14I |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
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Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 11 Aug 2014 13:16:58 -0400, wrote: The stocks are not just paper, they represent actual ownership of some darn good companies and a claim on their earnings and free cash flow. I know that is the theory but there is a lot of air under most of the stock prices these days.This has a certain Ponzi aspect too. As long as more money coming in than is taken out, it does OK. If there is a significant net loss of money coming into the market it will crash pretty fast. === You're entitled to your opinion of course, and there are no doubt some over inflated companies out there along with a handfull of outright frauds not yet discovered. On the other hand there are also some real captains of industry who make real products and sell them worldwide. I'm thinking of names like GE, IBM, Intel, Apple, Cisco, etc. These are companies that not only make solid products and sell them well, but they also have provable positive cash flows and pay dividends. There are many others of course, and there are also many companies in sectors such as energy and transportation with very solid fundamentals and positive cash flows. Cash flow is a good indicator because it is real, easy to measure and not easily subject to accounting slight of hand. Probably a lot more over inflated than is healthy. Like during the dot.bomb when Cisco was $80. My co workers were telling me to buy at that price. Where i was saying it was an $18-25 company. Where I screwed up when getting laid off at TI was not taking my options money and buying Cisco puts. They were Canceling semiconductor orders right and left. Where do you invest are the current time. Banks are paying 0point zip. Bonds are a looming disaster. With any bump in the interest rate bonds present value will tank. The administration is pretty much driving the market, via zero interest rates, and trillions of faux money. |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 02:23:59 -0400, wrote:
if you have 30 million boomers liquidating their 401ks === I don't think liquidate is the right description. Those who have made good investment decisions can do well with the just dividend stream and capital gains, leaving the principal amount mostly untouched. |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
On 8/10/2014 11:41 PM, Califbill wrote:
BAR wrote: In article , says... On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 15:30:01 -0500, amdx wrote: On 8/10/2014 10:22 AM, wrote: On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 09:54:41 -0500, amdx wrote: I want to clarify the method used to calculate the value of S.S. When taken at 62yrs vs 66yrs. I'll assume the following benefits $1,500 at 62 and $2,049 at 66. 1500 x 1nn% = yy or one month benefit plus interest yy x 1nn% = yy or two months benefit plus interest ?.... ?.... yy x 1nn% =yy or 12 months benefit plus interest yy minus taxes paid = new yy repeat for 4 years and save yearly values ""I will use this calculator to do this."" http://www.thecalculatorsite.com/fin...calculator.php Using 8% annual growth compounded monthly. year one $18,799 minus 15% = $15,979 year two $36,105 minus 15% = $30,689 year three $52,036 minus 15% = $44,231 year four $66,702 minus 15% = $56,697 $56,697 x 0.08% = $4,536* $4,536 is the interest earned on four years of savings. $1,500 x 12 mo = $18,000 Yearly Benefit at 62. If I add $4,536* to $18,000 = $22,436 Benefit at 62 plus interested earned on 4 years of savings. $2,049 x 12mo = $24,588 Benefit at 66 $24,588 - $22,436 = ($2,052) So the 62yr benefit saved for four years plus interest is $2052 less than 66 yr benefit. Or you could make up the difference for about 20 years by spending enough of the savings to be even. This has to be calculated to find exactly how many years, but it's not simple. Ok this is my first iteration. I think 8% interest is optimistic. I know I could add in COLA, but it goes into both so I think it's a wash. What should I change? Mikek All of these calculations assume SS will continue forever at the current pace. (benefits ratio, COLAs, tax treatment etc) That's about all we can do, my crystal ball works great except when I use it to predict the future. It is clear that there is a move to "reform" the program and that means reduced benefits somewhere. The last "reform" started taxing 85% of the benefits at normal tax rates for anyone who has any other significant income. Taking your required withdrawals from your 401k will put most people over this threshold. A pension is a slam dunk. I just hope they don't means test or asset test. I suspect if you earned it and saved it, they'll find a way to get it. Mikek Count on it. The millennials are going to throw grandma from the (gravy) train as soon as they figure out how to vote. The idea that the money in your 401k will be taxed at a lower rate than when you were working is a joke. SS is going to be a means tested welfare program. There is nothing stopping you from pulling money out of your 401k/IRA when you are 59 1/2 and investing it in other investment vehicles. You pay taxes now or later. I go later. And all my 401k's are now IRAs. Just a note: Many accountants think that tax rates will be higher in the future because of the huge debt we have. Because of this they are suggesting Roth IRAs instead of the traditional tax deductible IRA. Mikek |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
On 8/12/14, 8:59 AM, amdx wrote:
On 8/10/2014 11:41 PM, Califbill wrote: BAR wrote: In article , says... On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 15:30:01 -0500, amdx wrote: On 8/10/2014 10:22 AM, wrote: On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 09:54:41 -0500, amdx wrote: I want to clarify the method used to calculate the value of S.S. When taken at 62yrs vs 66yrs. I'll assume the following benefits $1,500 at 62 and $2,049 at 66. 1500 x 1nn% = yy or one month benefit plus interest yy x 1nn% = yy or two months benefit plus interest ?.... ?.... yy x 1nn% =yy or 12 months benefit plus interest yy minus taxes paid = new yy repeat for 4 years and save yearly values ""I will use this calculator to do this."" http://www.thecalculatorsite.com/fin...calculator.php Using 8% annual growth compounded monthly. year one $18,799 minus 15% = $15,979 year two $36,105 minus 15% = $30,689 year three $52,036 minus 15% = $44,231 year four $66,702 minus 15% = $56,697 $56,697 x 0.08% = $4,536* $4,536 is the interest earned on four years of savings. $1,500 x 12 mo = $18,000 Yearly Benefit at 62. If I add $4,536* to $18,000 = $22,436 Benefit at 62 plus interested earned on 4 years of savings. $2,049 x 12mo = $24,588 Benefit at 66 $24,588 - $22,436 = ($2,052) So the 62yr benefit saved for four years plus interest is $2052 less than 66 yr benefit. Or you could make up the difference for about 20 years by spending enough of the savings to be even. This has to be calculated to find exactly how many years, but it's not simple. Ok this is my first iteration. I think 8% interest is optimistic. I know I could add in COLA, but it goes into both so I think it's a wash. What should I change? Mikek All of these calculations assume SS will continue forever at the current pace. (benefits ratio, COLAs, tax treatment etc) That's about all we can do, my crystal ball works great except when I use it to predict the future. It is clear that there is a move to "reform" the program and that means reduced benefits somewhere. The last "reform" started taxing 85% of the benefits at normal tax rates for anyone who has any other significant income. Taking your required withdrawals from your 401k will put most people over this threshold. A pension is a slam dunk. I just hope they don't means test or asset test. I suspect if you earned it and saved it, they'll find a way to get it. Mikek Count on it. The millennials are going to throw grandma from the (gravy) train as soon as they figure out how to vote. The idea that the money in your 401k will be taxed at a lower rate than when you were working is a joke. SS is going to be a means tested welfare program. There is nothing stopping you from pulling money out of your 401k/IRA when you are 59 1/2 and investing it in other investment vehicles. You pay taxes now or later. I go later. And all my 401k's are now IRAs. Just a note: Many accountants think that tax rates will be higher in the future because of the huge debt we have. Because of this they are suggesting Roth IRAs instead of the traditional tax deductible IRA. Mikek So your accountants think the tax codes on the various forms of IRAs can't change? :) |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
On Tuesday, 12 August 2014 11:33:16 UTC-3, wrote:
On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 07:59:23 -0500, amdx wrote: Just a note: Many accountants think that tax rates will be higher in the future because of the huge debt we have. Because of this they are suggesting Roth IRAs instead of the traditional tax deductible IRA. Mikek That assumes the government would not change the tax code on a Roth. I am old enough to remember when they said Social Security would never be taxed ... because you already paid taxes on that money ... just like a Roth. When it comes to the government ****ing you, just plan on it. Wow! We pay both federal and provincial income tax on anything over our basic exemption, which is around 11k and another $2K if on pension plus I get another $7K because I turn 65 this month. After that everything is taxed at the rate of the income category you fall in... and yes that's all pensions, interest received on investments, monies taken out of RRSPs etc. Y'all have been spoiled down there and the chickens are coming home to roost. |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
On 8/12/2014 8:49 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 8/12/14, 8:59 AM, amdx wrote: On 8/10/2014 11:41 PM, Califbill wrote: BAR wrote: In article , says... On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 15:30:01 -0500, amdx wrote: On 8/10/2014 10:22 AM, wrote: On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 09:54:41 -0500, amdx wrote: I want to clarify the method used to calculate the value of S.S. When taken at 62yrs vs 66yrs. I'll assume the following benefits $1,500 at 62 and $2,049 at 66. 1500 x 1nn% = yy or one month benefit plus interest yy x 1nn% = yy or two months benefit plus interest ?.... ?.... yy x 1nn% =yy or 12 months benefit plus interest yy minus taxes paid = new yy repeat for 4 years and save yearly values ""I will use this calculator to do this."" http://www.thecalculatorsite.com/fin...calculator.php Using 8% annual growth compounded monthly. year one $18,799 minus 15% = $15,979 year two $36,105 minus 15% = $30,689 year three $52,036 minus 15% = $44,231 year four $66,702 minus 15% = $56,697 $56,697 x 0.08% = $4,536* $4,536 is the interest earned on four years of savings. $1,500 x 12 mo = $18,000 Yearly Benefit at 62. If I add $4,536* to $18,000 = $22,436 Benefit at 62 plus interested earned on 4 years of savings. $2,049 x 12mo = $24,588 Benefit at 66 $24,588 - $22,436 = ($2,052) So the 62yr benefit saved for four years plus interest is $2052 less than 66 yr benefit. Or you could make up the difference for about 20 years by spending enough of the savings to be even. This has to be calculated to find exactly how many years, but it's not simple. Ok this is my first iteration. I think 8% interest is optimistic. I know I could add in COLA, but it goes into both so I think it's a wash. What should I change? Mikek All of these calculations assume SS will continue forever at the current pace. (benefits ratio, COLAs, tax treatment etc) That's about all we can do, my crystal ball works great except when I use it to predict the future. It is clear that there is a move to "reform" the program and that means reduced benefits somewhere. The last "reform" started taxing 85% of the benefits at normal tax rates for anyone who has any other significant income. Taking your required withdrawals from your 401k will put most people over this threshold. A pension is a slam dunk. I just hope they don't means test or asset test. I suspect if you earned it and saved it, they'll find a way to get it. Mikek Count on it. The millennials are going to throw grandma from the (gravy) train as soon as they figure out how to vote. The idea that the money in your 401k will be taxed at a lower rate than when you were working is a joke. SS is going to be a means tested welfare program. There is nothing stopping you from pulling money out of your 401k/IRA when you are 59 1/2 and investing it in other investment vehicles. You pay taxes now or later. I go later. And all my 401k's are now IRAs. Just a note: Many accountants think that tax rates will be higher in the future because of the huge debt we have. Because of this they are suggesting Roth IRAs instead of the traditional tax deductible IRA. Mikek So your accountants think the tax codes on the various forms of IRAs can't change? :) Taxes and tax codes are not subjects you should be discussing openly, unless, of course, you would care to enlighten us on your tax delinquencies and difficulties with the IRS and the courts. -- "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them". Thomas Jefferson |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
On 8/12/2014 9:12 AM, True North wrote:
On Tuesday, 12 August 2014 11:33:16 UTC-3, wrote: On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 07:59:23 -0500, amdx wrote: Just a note: Many accountants think that tax rates will be higher in the future because of the huge debt we have. Because of this they are suggesting Roth IRAs instead of the traditional tax deductible IRA. Mikek That assumes the government would not change the tax code on a Roth. I am old enough to remember when they said Social Security would never be taxed ... because you already paid taxes on that money ... just like a Roth. When it comes to the government ****ing you, just plan on it. Wow! We pay both federal and provincial income tax on anything over our basic exemption, which is around 11k and another $2K if on pension plus I get another $7K because I turn 65 this month. After that everything is taxed at the rate of the income category you fall in... and yes that's all pensions, interest received on investments, monies taken out of RRSPs etc. Y'all have been spoiled down there and the chickens are coming home to roost. No one is forcing you to stay there. -- "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them". Thomas Jefferson |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
True North wrote:
On Tuesday, 12 August 2014 11:33:16 UTC-3, wrote: On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 07:59:23 -0500, amdx wrote: Just a note: Many accountants think that tax rates will be higher in the future because of the huge debt we have. Because of this they are suggesting Roth IRAs instead of the traditional tax deductible IRA. Mikek That assumes the government would not change the tax code on a Roth. I am old enough to remember when they said Social Security would never be taxed ... because you already paid taxes on that money ... just like a Roth. When it comes to the government ****ing you, just plan on it. Wow! We pay both federal and provincial income tax on anything over our basic exemption, which is around 11k and another $2K if on pension plus I get another $7K because I turn 65 this month. After that everything is taxed at the rate of the income category you fall in... and yes that's all pensions, interest received on investments, monies taken out of RRSPs etc. Y'all have been spoiled down there and the chickens are coming home to roost. You get something for it. We get military spending. ðŸ˜* -- Posted from my iPhone |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
On 8/12/2014 9:16 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
True North wrote: On Tuesday, 12 August 2014 11:33:16 UTC-3, wrote: On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 07:59:23 -0500, amdx wrote: Just a note: Many accountants think that tax rates will be higher in the future because of the huge debt we have. Because of this they are suggesting Roth IRAs instead of the traditional tax deductible IRA. Mikek That assumes the government would not change the tax code on a Roth. I am old enough to remember when they said Social Security would never be taxed ... because you already paid taxes on that money ... just like a Roth. When it comes to the government ****ing you, just plan on it. Wow! We pay both federal and provincial income tax on anything over our basic exemption, which is around 11k and another $2K if on pension plus I get another $7K because I turn 65 this month. After that everything is taxed at the rate of the income category you fall in... and yes that's all pensions, interest received on investments, monies taken out of RRSPs etc. Y'all have been spoiled down there and the chickens are coming home to roost. You get something for it. We get military spending. ðŸ˜* Why don't yoU suggest to him that being a tax cheat is an honoUrable endeavoUr. Works for YoU, eh? -- "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them". Thomas Jefferson |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
On Tuesday, 12 August 2014 12:30:11 UTC-3, wrote:
On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 08:12:35 -0700 (PDT), True North wrote: On Tuesday, 12 August 2014 11:33:16 UTC-3, wrote: On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 07:59:23 -0500, amdx wrote: Just a note: Many accountants think that tax rates will be higher in the future because of the huge debt we have. Because of this they are suggesting Roth IRAs instead of the traditional tax deductible IRA. Mikek That assumes the government would not change the tax code on a Roth. I am old enough to remember when they said Social Security would never be taxed ... because you already paid taxes on that money ... just like a Roth. When it comes to the government ****ing you, just plan on it. Wow! We pay both federal and provincial income tax on anything over our basic exemption, which is around 11k and another $2K if on pension plus I get another $7K because I turn 65 this month. After that everything is taxed at the rate of the income category you fall in... and yes that's all pensions, interest received on investments, monies taken out of RRSPs etc. Y'all have been spoiled down there and the chickens are coming home to roost. It sounds like you guys have as many debt problems as we do http://www.fraserinstitute.org/resea...ent-Debt-2014/ Don't know how much I'd trust that 'right wing think tank'.. but yes, our federal and provincial governments have been spending like drunken sailors, and not properly addressing liabilities in public servant pensions. |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
True North wrote:
On Tuesday, 12 August 2014 12:30:11 UTC-3, wrote: On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 08:12:35 -0700 (PDT), True North wrote: On Tuesday, 12 August 2014 11:33:16 UTC-3, wrote: On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 07:59:23 -0500, amdx wrote: Just a note: Many accountants think that tax rates will be higher in the future because of the huge debt we have. Because of this they are suggesting Roth IRAs instead of the traditional tax deductible IRA. Mikek That assumes the government would not change the tax code on a Roth. I am old enough to remember when they said Social Security would never be taxed ... because you already paid taxes on that money ... just like a Roth. When it comes to the government ****ing you, just plan on it. Wow! We pay both federal and provincial income tax on anything over our basic exemption, which is around 11k and another $2K if on pension plus I get another $7K because I turn 65 this month. After that everything is taxed at the rate of the income category you fall in... and yes that's all pensions, interest received on investments, monies taken out of RRSPs etc. Y'all have been spoiled down there and the chickens are coming home to roost. It sounds like you guys have as many debt problems as we do http://www.fraserinstitute.org/resea...ent-Debt-2014/ Don't know how much I'd trust that 'right wing think tank'.. but yes, our federal and provincial governments have been spending like drunken sailors, and not properly addressing liabilities in public servant pensions. Why are you worrying about public service pensions? You sate you were not a government worker. |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
True North wrote:
On Tuesday, 12 August 2014 11:33:16 UTC-3, wrote: On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 07:59:23 -0500, amdx wrote: Just a note: Many accountants think that tax rates will be higher in the future because of the huge debt we have. Because of this they are suggesting Roth IRAs instead of the traditional tax deductible IRA. Mikek That assumes the government would not change the tax code on a Roth. I am old enough to remember when they said Social Security would never be taxed ... because you already paid taxes on that money ... just like a Roth. When it comes to the government ****ing you, just plan on it. Wow! We pay both federal and provincial income tax on anything over our basic exemption, which is around 11k and another $2K if on pension plus I get another $7K because I turn 65 this month. After that everything is taxed at the rate of the income category you fall in... and yes that's all pensions, interest received on investments, monies taken out of RRSPs etc. Y'all have been spoiled down there and the chickens are coming home to roost. No, you have been screwed up there. Those 18-25% VAT taxes, etc. to pay for a crappy single payer health system, plus social programs. How much do you think your health care costs you a year? |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
amdx wrote:
On 8/10/2014 11:41 PM, Califbill wrote: BAR wrote: In article , says... On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 15:30:01 -0500, amdx wrote: On 8/10/2014 10:22 AM, wrote: On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 09:54:41 -0500, amdx wrote: I want to clarify the method used to calculate the value of S.S. When taken at 62yrs vs 66yrs. I'll assume the following benefits $1,500 at 62 and $2,049 at 66. 1500 x 1nn% = yy or one month benefit plus interest yy x 1nn% = yy or two months benefit plus interest ?.... ?.... yy x 1nn% =yy or 12 months benefit plus interest yy minus taxes paid = new yy repeat for 4 years and save yearly values ""I will use this calculator to do this."" http://www.thecalculatorsite.com/fin...calculator.php Using 8% annual growth compounded monthly. year one $18,799 minus 15% = $15,979 year two $36,105 minus 15% = $30,689 year three $52,036 minus 15% = $44,231 year four $66,702 minus 15% = $56,697 $56,697 x 0.08% = $4,536* $4,536 is the interest earned on four years of savings. $1,500 x 12 mo = $18,000 Yearly Benefit at 62. If I add $4,536* to $18,000 = $22,436 Benefit at 62 plus interested earned on 4 years of savings. $2,049 x 12mo = $24,588 Benefit at 66 $24,588 - $22,436 = ($2,052) So the 62yr benefit saved for four years plus interest is $2052 less than 66 yr benefit. Or you could make up the difference for about 20 years by spending enough of the savings to be even. This has to be calculated to find exactly how many years, but it's not simple. Ok this is my first iteration. I think 8% interest is optimistic. I know I could add in COLA, but it goes into both so I think it's a wash. What should I change? Mikek All of these calculations assume SS will continue forever at the current pace. (benefits ratio, COLAs, tax treatment etc) That's about all we can do, my crystal ball works great except when I use it to predict the future. It is clear that there is a move to "reform" the program and that means reduced benefits somewhere. The last "reform" started taxing 85% of the benefits at normal tax rates for anyone who has any other significant income. Taking your required withdrawals from your 401k will put most people over this threshold. A pension is a slam dunk. I just hope they don't means test or asset test. I suspect if you earned it and saved it, they'll find a way to get it. Mikek Count on it. The millennials are going to throw grandma from the (gravy) train as soon as they figure out how to vote. The idea that the money in your 401k will be taxed at a lower rate than when you were working is a joke. SS is going to be a means tested welfare program. There is nothing stopping you from pulling money out of your 401k/IRA when you are 59 1/2 and investing it in other investment vehicles. You pay taxes now or later. I go later. And all my 401k's are now IRAs. Just a note: Many accountants think that tax rates will be higher in the future because of the huge debt we have. Because of this they are suggesting Roth IRAs instead of the traditional tax deductible IRA. Mikek The problem with Roth IRA's is to move my traditional IRA's to Roth, I have to give up 35-39% of the money up front. Even with increasing tax rates, I doubt I can recover the differences in the rest of my life. |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 02:23:59 -0400, wrote: if you have 30 million boomers liquidating their 401ks === I don't think liquidate is the right description. Those who have made good investment decisions can do well with the just dividend stream and capital gains, leaving the principal amount mostly untouched. The problem, is most of those retirees have little actual money / income. So they will have to cash in the retirement accounts for living. I read somewhere that the average savings of a 50 year is less the $50,000. They are not going to get to the amount of savings by 66 to live off of the dividend stream. In other words, most have made either bad investment decisions, or saved little, or both. Those people who have driven around in leased Bimmers and MB's and living the good life on current income are probably a majority. Or they were lower income workers. Janitors, etc. |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
True North wrote:
On Tuesday, 12 August 2014 11:33:16 UTC-3, wrote: On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 07:59:23 -0500, amdx wrote: Just a note: Many accountants think that tax rates will be higher in the future because of the huge debt we have. Because of this they are suggesting Roth IRAs instead of the traditional tax deductible IRA. Mikek That assumes the government would not change the tax code on a Roth. I am old enough to remember when they said Social Security would never be taxed ... because you already paid taxes on that money ... just like a Roth. When it comes to the government ****ing you, just plan on it. Wow! We pay both federal and provincial income tax on anything over our basic exemption, which is around 11k and another $2K if on pension plus I get another $7K because I turn 65 this month. After that everything is taxed at the rate of the income category you fall in... and yes that's all pensions, interest received on investments, monies taken out of RRSPs etc. Y'all have been spoiled down there and the chickens are coming home to roost. An IRA is not a pension. It's money we paid for our retirement because we can't count on our government to keep the money we paid into SS in the "lockbox". |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
On 8/12/14, 2:19 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 11:54:17 -0500, Califbill wrote: Wayne.B wrote: On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 02:23:59 -0400, wrote: if you have 30 million boomers liquidating their 401ks === I don't think liquidate is the right description. Those who have made good investment decisions can do well with the just dividend stream and capital gains, leaving the principal amount mostly untouched. The problem, is most of those retirees have little actual money / income. So they will have to cash in the retirement accounts for living. I read somewhere that the average savings of a 50 year is less the $50,000. They are not going to get to the amount of savings by 66 to live off of the dividend stream. In other words, most have made either bad investment decisions, or saved little, or both. Those people who have driven around in leased Bimmers and MB's and living the good life on current income are probably a majority. Or they were lower income workers. Janitors, etc. That is my thinking and to make things worse, these people will be selling into a bear market, just to pay the rent. That is a perpetual motion market crash in the making. Every correction will be pushed down farther than it normally would be by these subsistence sellers. OTOH the rich will certainly have the opportunity to get richer since they can sit on the side lines with a big bag of money and scoop up the bargains when they think they see a bottom. You just have to be sure you are invested in a fund with large cash reserves and hope it is enough to get them over the hard times without selling off stocks to cover withdrawals. For me, I am already starting to take my profits on this bubble market we are looking at right now. I think this bubble is going to pop. It won't happen in my lifetime, but this country is headed for a real revolution. Whether is is peaceful or violent will only be revealed in the future. Corporationists, greed, banksters and the trend to find the cheapest labor for everything means the death of the middle class and the end of the possibility of lower income groups being able to fight their way into it. No more decent jobs with benefits, eventually no more Social Security, no more nothing for the vast majority of Americans beyond bleak subsistence living. Municipal services being privatized, jails privatized, police forces gearing up with assault vehicles and weaponry, and ignorant Americans thinking illegal Central and South American immigrants are the cause of civilization's decline. It's a perfect scenario for heads on pikes of the Koch Brothers types and a real restructuring of America. |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
Bertie says
"Donnie is proud of the fact that he worked for a Crown Corporation. Most likely he was the janitor at Canada Post in Halifax. " Yes and no, Bertie. You're improving, now you are at least half right. |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
On 8/13/14, 8:41 AM, True North wrote:
Bertie says "Donnie is proud of the fact that he worked for a Crown Corporation. Most likely he was the janitor at Canada Post in Halifax. " Yes and no, Bertie. You're improving, now you are at least half right. Bertie has been boatless for longer than any poster's "existence" on rec.boats. |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
On 8/13/2014 8:25 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 8/12/14, 2:19 PM, wrote: On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 11:54:17 -0500, Califbill wrote: Wayne.B wrote: On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 02:23:59 -0400, wrote: if you have 30 million boomers liquidating their 401ks === I don't think liquidate is the right description. Those who have made good investment decisions can do well with the just dividend stream and capital gains, leaving the principal amount mostly untouched. The problem, is most of those retirees have little actual money / income. So they will have to cash in the retirement accounts for living. I read somewhere that the average savings of a 50 year is less the $50,000. They are not going to get to the amount of savings by 66 to live off of the dividend stream. In other words, most have made either bad investment decisions, or saved little, or both. Those people who have driven around in leased Bimmers and MB's and living the good life on current income are probably a majority. Or they were lower income workers. Janitors, etc. That is my thinking and to make things worse, these people will be selling into a bear market, just to pay the rent. That is a perpetual motion market crash in the making. Every correction will be pushed down farther than it normally would be by these subsistence sellers. OTOH the rich will certainly have the opportunity to get richer since they can sit on the side lines with a big bag of money and scoop up the bargains when they think they see a bottom. You just have to be sure you are invested in a fund with large cash reserves and hope it is enough to get them over the hard times without selling off stocks to cover withdrawals. For me, I am already starting to take my profits on this bubble market we are looking at right now. I think this bubble is going to pop. It won't happen in my lifetime, but this country is headed for a real revolution. Whether is is peaceful or violent will only be revealed in the future. Corporationists, greed, banksters and the trend to find the cheapest labor for everything means the death of the middle class and the end of the possibility of lower income groups being able to fight their way into it. No more decent jobs with benefits, eventually no more Social Security, no more nothing for the vast majority of Americans beyond bleak subsistence living. Municipal services being privatized, jails privatized, police forces gearing up with assault vehicles and weaponry, and ignorant Americans thinking illegal Central and South American immigrants are the cause of civilization's decline. It's a perfect scenario for heads on pikes of the Koch Brothers types and a real restructuring of America. If history is a guide to the future a global conflict is likely ... basically WWIII that will completely restructure how businesses operate in the USA. It's inevitable. Meanwhile, unskilled jobs will continue to decline. Higher education will continue to be a prime prerequisite for those jobs that exist even in small businesses. The days of expecting middle class wages and enjoying a middle class lifestyle with nothing more than a high school diploma are over. |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
On 8/13/2014 6:25 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 8/12/14, 2:19 PM, wrote: On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 11:54:17 -0500, Califbill wrote: Wayne.B wrote: On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 02:23:59 -0400, wrote: if you have 30 million boomers liquidating their 401ks === I don't think liquidate is the right description. Those who have made good investment decisions can do well with the just dividend stream and capital gains, leaving the principal amount mostly untouched. The problem, is most of those retirees have little actual money / income. So they will have to cash in the retirement accounts for living. I read somewhere that the average savings of a 50 year is less the $50,000. They are not going to get to the amount of savings by 66 to live off of the dividend stream. In other words, most have made either bad investment decisions, or saved little, or both. Those people who have driven around in leased Bimmers and MB's and living the good life on current income are probably a majority. Or they were lower income workers. Janitors, etc. That is my thinking and to make things worse, these people will be selling into a bear market, just to pay the rent. That is a perpetual motion market crash in the making. Every correction will be pushed down farther than it normally would be by these subsistence sellers. OTOH the rich will certainly have the opportunity to get richer since they can sit on the side lines with a big bag of money and scoop up the bargains when they think they see a bottom. You just have to be sure you are invested in a fund with large cash reserves and hope it is enough to get them over the hard times without selling off stocks to cover withdrawals. For me, I am already starting to take my profits on this bubble market we are looking at right now. I think this bubble is going to pop. It won't happen in my lifetime, but this country is headed for a real revolution. Whether is is peaceful or violent will only be revealed in the future. Corporationists, greed, banksters and the trend to find the cheapest labor for everything means the death of the middle class and the end of the possibility of lower income groups being able to fight their way into it. No more decent jobs with benefits, eventually no more Social Security, no more nothing for the vast majority of Americans beyond bleak subsistence living. Municipal services being privatized, jails privatized, police forces gearing up with assault vehicles and weaponry, and ignorant Americans thinking illegal Central and South American immigrants are the cause of civilization's decline. It's a perfect scenario for heads on pikes of the Koch Brothers types and a real restructuring of America. History will reveal that labor unions and the liberalization of America will be the cause of death of the once greatest nation on earth. -- "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them". Thomas Jefferson |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 8/13/2014 8:25 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote: On 8/12/14, 2:19 PM, wrote: On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 11:54:17 -0500, Califbill wrote: Wayne.B wrote: On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 02:23:59 -0400, wrote: if you have 30 million boomers liquidating their 401ks === I don't think liquidate is the right description. Those who have made good investment decisions can do well with the just dividend stream and capital gains, leaving the principal amount mostly untouched. The problem, is most of those retirees have little actual money / income. So they will have to cash in the retirement accounts for living. I read somewhere that the average savings of a 50 year is less the $50,000. They are not going to get to the amount of savings by 66 to live off of the dividend stream. In other words, most have made either bad investment decisions, or saved little, or both. Those people who have driven around in leased Bimmers and MB's and living the good life on current income are probably a majority. Or they were lower income workers. Janitors, etc. That is my thinking and to make things worse, these people will be selling into a bear market, just to pay the rent. That is a perpetual motion market crash in the making. Every correction will be pushed down farther than it normally would be by these subsistence sellers. OTOH the rich will certainly have the opportunity to get richer since they can sit on the side lines with a big bag of money and scoop up the bargains when they think they see a bottom. You just have to be sure you are invested in a fund with large cash reserves and hope it is enough to get them over the hard times without selling off stocks to cover withdrawals. For me, I am already starting to take my profits on this bubble market we are looking at right now. I think this bubble is going to pop. It won't happen in my lifetime, but this country is headed for a real revolution. Whether is is peaceful or violent will only be revealed in the future. Corporationists, greed, banksters and the trend to find the cheapest labor for everything means the death of the middle class and the end of the possibility of lower income groups being able to fight their way into it. No more decent jobs with benefits, eventually no more Social Security, no more nothing for the vast majority of Americans beyond bleak subsistence living. Municipal services being privatized, jails privatized, police forces gearing up with assault vehicles and weaponry, and ignorant Americans thinking illegal Central and South American immigrants are the cause of civilization's decline. It's a perfect scenario for heads on pikes of the Koch Brothers types and a real restructuring of America. If history is a guide to the future a global conflict is likely ... basically WWIII that will completely restructure how businesses operate in the USA. It's inevitable. Meanwhile, unskilled jobs will continue to decline. Higher education will continue to be a prime prerequisite for those jobs that exist even in small businesses. The days of expecting middle class wages and enjoying a middle class lifestyle with nothing more than a high school diploma are over. It isn't just "unskilled" jobs in decline in this country. We are headed for a massive restructuring. Too much wealth is concentrated in the hands of too few and it is getting worse. -- Posted from my iPhone |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 09:18:42 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: Meanwhile, unskilled jobs will continue to decline. Higher education will continue to be a prime prerequisite for those jobs that exist even in small businesses. The days of expecting middle class wages and enjoying a middle class lifestyle with nothing more than a high school diploma are over. === I understand your point and half agree with your conclusion. There's no question that skills are the key to a good job and competetive compensation but there will always be people who manage to acquire those skills in non-traditional ways. Additionally, there are certains skills that have almost always been acquired through on the job training and hard work. I'm thinking specifically of contractors, electricians, cabinet makers, finish carpenters, specialty welders, small business owners, oil field workers, etc. |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
wrote:
On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 10:00:58 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 09:18:42 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Meanwhile, unskilled jobs will continue to decline. Higher education will continue to be a prime prerequisite for those jobs that exist even in small businesses. The days of expecting middle class wages and enjoying a middle class lifestyle with nothing more than a high school diploma are over. === I understand your point and half agree with your conclusion. There's no question that skills are the key to a good job and competetive compensation but there will always be people who manage to acquire those skills in non-traditional ways. Additionally, there are certains skills that have almost always been acquired through on the job training and hard work. I'm thinking specifically of contractors, electricians, cabinet makers, finish carpenters, specialty welders, small business owners, oil field workers, etc. Harry is schizophrenic in this regard. On the one hand he touts college for everyone and then he talks about how wonderful the training is in the trade unions. I tend to agree that some of the best job opportunities will lie in the trades. I know a lot of guys in skilled trades with four year college degrees. -- Posted from my iPhone |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
wrote:
On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 09:18:42 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: If history is a guide to the future a global conflict is likely ... basically WWIII that will completely restructure how businesses operate in the USA. It's inevitable. Meanwhile, unskilled jobs will continue to decline. Higher education will continue to be a prime prerequisite for those jobs that exist even in small businesses. The days of expecting middle class wages and enjoying a middle class lifestyle with nothing more than a high school diploma are over. I am not really sure what those "college" jobs will be either. The traditional job for a liberal arts major was middle management somewhere. Without the "labor", you do not need that many managers. Just like a lot of jobs, middle management and the infrastructure than comes up around them, was replaced by computers. Even before I left, IBM had stripped out several levels of management completely. A lot of "offices" disappeared. I agree educational requirements for jobs are higher but that is not because the job demands that education, it is simply because there are a glut of college educated people looking for a job. As I said: revolution. -- Posted from my iPhone |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
On 8/13/2014 9:50 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 8/13/2014 8:25 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote: On 8/12/14, 2:19 PM, wrote: On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 11:54:17 -0500, Califbill wrote: Wayne.B wrote: On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 02:23:59 -0400, wrote: if you have 30 million boomers liquidating their 401ks === I don't think liquidate is the right description. Those who have made good investment decisions can do well with the just dividend stream and capital gains, leaving the principal amount mostly untouched. The problem, is most of those retirees have little actual money / income. So they will have to cash in the retirement accounts for living. I read somewhere that the average savings of a 50 year is less the $50,000. They are not going to get to the amount of savings by 66 to live off of the dividend stream. In other words, most have made either bad investment decisions, or saved little, or both. Those people who have driven around in leased Bimmers and MB's and living the good life on current income are probably a majority. Or they were lower income workers. Janitors, etc. That is my thinking and to make things worse, these people will be selling into a bear market, just to pay the rent. That is a perpetual motion market crash in the making. Every correction will be pushed down farther than it normally would be by these subsistence sellers. OTOH the rich will certainly have the opportunity to get richer since they can sit on the side lines with a big bag of money and scoop up the bargains when they think they see a bottom. You just have to be sure you are invested in a fund with large cash reserves and hope it is enough to get them over the hard times without selling off stocks to cover withdrawals. For me, I am already starting to take my profits on this bubble market we are looking at right now. I think this bubble is going to pop. It won't happen in my lifetime, but this country is headed for a real revolution. Whether is is peaceful or violent will only be revealed in the future. Corporationists, greed, banksters and the trend to find the cheapest labor for everything means the death of the middle class and the end of the possibility of lower income groups being able to fight their way into it. No more decent jobs with benefits, eventually no more Social Security, no more nothing for the vast majority of Americans beyond bleak subsistence living. Municipal services being privatized, jails privatized, police forces gearing up with assault vehicles and weaponry, and ignorant Americans thinking illegal Central and South American immigrants are the cause of civilization's decline. It's a perfect scenario for heads on pikes of the Koch Brothers types and a real restructuring of America. If history is a guide to the future a global conflict is likely ... basically WWIII that will completely restructure how businesses operate in the USA. It's inevitable. Meanwhile, unskilled jobs will continue to decline. Higher education will continue to be a prime prerequisite for those jobs that exist even in small businesses. The days of expecting middle class wages and enjoying a middle class lifestyle with nothing more than a high school diploma are over. It isn't just "unskilled" jobs in decline in this country. We are headed for a massive restructuring. Too much wealth is concentrated in the hands of too few and it is getting worse. There are two ways to respond to your assessment. The first is to cast the blame on those who have been successful and demand a cut of the fruits of their labor. The second is to qualify oneself via training and education for the jobs that exist in a highly competitive world ... that is only becoming *more* competitive. For most, the second route was drilled into us as youngsters. Unlike today, we were never taught to "expect" it due to some societal right. The required education may be acquired in many ways. It doesn't necessarily require daddy's fat checkbook. I'd also add that it often takes many years of work to rise to the "middle class" financial category. Some people seem to think it's a "right" and should start as soon as you become an adult. I didn't achieve a "middle class" lifestyle until well into my 30's. |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
On 8/13/2014 10:00 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 09:18:42 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Meanwhile, unskilled jobs will continue to decline. Higher education will continue to be a prime prerequisite for those jobs that exist even in small businesses. The days of expecting middle class wages and enjoying a middle class lifestyle with nothing more than a high school diploma are over. === I understand your point and half agree with your conclusion. There's no question that skills are the key to a good job and competetive compensation but there will always be people who manage to acquire those skills in non-traditional ways. Additionally, there are certains skills that have almost always been acquired through on the job training and hard work. I'm thinking specifically of contractors, electricians, cabinet makers, finish carpenters, specialty welders, small business owners, oil field workers, etc. I agree 100 percent. The requirement of training or an education may be achieved in many ways. Schools are only one of the avenues. The common denominators is the *will* to learn, grow and improve one's station in life. My complaint is about those who seem to think that success, measured at any level, is a right rather than an earned reward. |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
On 13 Aug 2014 16:17:05 GMT, F.O.A.D. wrote:
wrote: On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 10:00:58 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 09:18:42 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Meanwhile, unskilled jobs will continue to decline. Higher education will continue to be a prime prerequisite for those jobs that exist even in small businesses. The days of expecting middle class wages and enjoying a middle class lifestyle with nothing more than a high school diploma are over. === I understand your point and half agree with your conclusion. There's no question that skills are the key to a good job and competetive compensation but there will always be people who manage to acquire those skills in non-traditional ways. Additionally, there are certains skills that have almost always been acquired through on the job training and hard work. I'm thinking specifically of contractors, electricians, cabinet makers, finish carpenters, specialty welders, small business owners, oil field workers, etc. Harry is schizophrenic in this regard. On the one hand he touts college for everyone and then he talks about how wonderful the training is in the trade unions. I tend to agree that some of the best job opportunities will lie in the trades. I know a lot of guys in skilled trades with four year college degrees. === There's nothing wrong with making a good living in the skilled trades but I'd argue that they wasted a fair amount of time and money in acquiring their 4 year degree. No doubt they are the better for it it ways that can't be quantified or monetized but the return on investment is just not there. |
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