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Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 12:42:32 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 8/13/2014 10:00 AM, Wayne.B wrote: On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 09:18:42 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Meanwhile, unskilled jobs will continue to decline. Higher education will continue to be a prime prerequisite for those jobs that exist even in small businesses. The days of expecting middle class wages and enjoying a middle class lifestyle with nothing more than a high school diploma are over. === I understand your point and half agree with your conclusion. There's no question that skills are the key to a good job and competetive compensation but there will always be people who manage to acquire those skills in non-traditional ways. Additionally, there are certains skills that have almost always been acquired through on the job training and hard work. I'm thinking specifically of contractors, electricians, cabinet makers, finish carpenters, specialty welders, small business owners, oil field workers, etc. I agree 100 percent. The requirement of training or an education may be achieved in many ways. Schools are only one of the avenues. The common denominators is the *will* to learn, grow and improve one's station in life. My complaint is about those who seem to think that success, measured at any level, is a right rather than an earned reward. === Absolutely right. |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
On 13 Aug 2014 16:17:06 GMT, F.O.A.D. wrote:
I am not really sure what those "college" jobs will be either. The traditional job for a liberal arts major was middle management somewhere. Without the "labor", you do not need that many managers. Just like a lot of jobs, middle management and the infrastructure than comes up around them, was replaced by computers. Even before I left, IBM had stripped out several levels of management completely. A lot of "offices" disappeared. I agree educational requirements for jobs are higher but that is not because the job demands that education, it is simply because there are a glut of college educated people looking for a job. As I said: revolution. === So after the inner city minorities kill off the rich and middle class, aided by unemployed union members, and they destroy important parts of the infrastructure, who will feed them then? Farming is hard work. Your backyard might well become part of the tillable land, and your home could certainly shelter at least 20 workers not to mention a few cows on the lower level. The bolsheviks did not create a thriving economy with their revolution. It took capitalists and free enterprise to do that some 80 years later. |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
F.O.A.D. wrote:
wrote: On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 10:00:58 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 09:18:42 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Meanwhile, unskilled jobs will continue to decline. Higher education will continue to be a prime prerequisite for those jobs that exist even in small businesses. The days of expecting middle class wages and enjoying a middle class lifestyle with nothing more than a high school diploma are over. === I understand your point and half agree with your conclusion. There's no question that skills are the key to a good job and competetive compensation but there will always be people who manage to acquire those skills in non-traditional ways. Additionally, there are certains skills that have almost always been acquired through on the job training and hard work. I'm thinking specifically of contractors, electricians, cabinet makers, finish carpenters, specialty welders, small business owners, oil field workers, etc. Harry is schizophrenic in this regard. On the one hand he touts college for everyone and then he talks about how wonderful the training is in the trade unions. I tend to agree that some of the best job opportunities will lie in the trades. I know a lot of guys in skilled trades with four year college degrees. Found out an English lit degree could not feed the family? |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
Califbill wrote:
F.O.A.D. wrote: wrote: On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 10:00:58 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 09:18:42 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Meanwhile, unskilled jobs will continue to decline. Higher education will continue to be a prime prerequisite for those jobs that exist even in small businesses. The days of expecting middle class wages and enjoying a middle class lifestyle with nothing more than a high school diploma are over. === I understand your point and half agree with your conclusion. There's no question that skills are the key to a good job and competetive compensation but there will always be people who manage to acquire those skills in non-traditional ways. Additionally, there are certains skills that have almost always been acquired through on the job training and hard work. I'm thinking specifically of contractors, electricians, cabinet makers, finish carpenters, specialty welders, small business owners, oil field workers, etc. Harry is schizophrenic in this regard. On the one hand he touts college for everyone and then he talks about how wonderful the training is in the trade unions. I tend to agree that some of the best job opportunities will lie in the trades. I know a lot of guys in skilled trades with four year college degrees. Found out an English lit degree could not feed the family? Most of my liberal arts grad friends who have salaried jobs are earning mid to high six figures...more than you ever earned in salary. -- Posted from my iPhone |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
wrote:
On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 12:37:54 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 8/13/2014 9:50 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote: There are two ways to respond to your assessment. The first is to cast the blame on those who have been successful and demand a cut of the fruits of their labor. The second is to qualify oneself via training and education for the jobs that exist in a highly competitive world ... that is only becoming *more* competitive. For most, the second route was drilled into us as youngsters. Unlike today, we were never taught to "expect" it due to some societal right. The required education may be acquired in many ways. It doesn't necessarily require daddy's fat checkbook. I'd also add that it often takes many years of work to rise to the "middle class" financial category. Some people seem to think it's a "right" and should start as soon as you become an adult. I didn't achieve a "middle class" lifestyle until well into my 30's. If you believe the assessment made by millionaire media and author types, I never have. There is a story floating around the talk shows now that you need $150,000 for the basic necessities of life ... what bull****! 10 years ago or so, the media claimed you needed $250k to live in the Silicon Valley. BS like a lot of today's media. |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
F.O.A.D. wrote:
Califbill wrote: F.O.A.D. wrote: wrote: On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 10:00:58 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 09:18:42 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Meanwhile, unskilled jobs will continue to decline. Higher education will continue to be a prime prerequisite for those jobs that exist even in small businesses. The days of expecting middle class wages and enjoying a middle class lifestyle with nothing more than a high school diploma are over. === I understand your point and half agree with your conclusion. There's no question that skills are the key to a good job and competetive compensation but there will always be people who manage to acquire those skills in non-traditional ways. Additionally, there are certains skills that have almost always been acquired through on the job training and hard work. I'm thinking specifically of contractors, electricians, cabinet makers, finish carpenters, specialty welders, small business owners, oil field workers, etc. Harry is schizophrenic in this regard. On the one hand he touts college for everyone and then he talks about how wonderful the training is in the trade unions. I tend to agree that some of the best job opportunities will lie in the trades. I know a lot of guys in skilled trades with four year college degrees. Found out an English lit degree could not feed the family? Most of my liberal arts grad friends who have salaried jobs are earning mid to high six figures...more than you ever earned in salary. Jealous of those friends? And you have no idea of my salaried years! And your friends, like your boat, are not typical. |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
wrote:
On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 14:59:32 -0500, Califbill wrote: F.O.A.D. wrote: Most of my liberal arts grad friends who have salaried jobs are earning mid to high six figures...more than you ever earned in salary. Jealous of those friends? And you have no idea of my salaried years! And your friends, like your boat, are not typical. He must hate their guts since they are firmly in that 1% of the "rich" that he vilifies here. (that starts somewhere between $500k and 550k) There's that moronic right wing use of "hate" again. -- Posted from my iPhone |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
wrote:
On 13 Aug 2014 16:17:05 GMT, F.O.A.D. wrote: Harry is schizophrenic in this regard. On the one hand he touts college for everyone and then he talks about how wonderful the training is in the trade unions. I tend to agree that some of the best job opportunities will lie in the trades. I know a lot of guys in skilled trades with four year college degrees. That doesn't say much for the education then does it. D'oh. Most of them got their degrees while working in the trades. You know...intellectual pursuits. Close friend, a plumber, just got an M.A. in philosophy. Apparently not everyone is satisfied ossifying mentally in SW Florida. -- Posted from my iPhone |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
wrote:
On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 14:59:32 -0500, Califbill wrote: F.O.A.D. wrote: Most of my liberal arts grad friends who have salaried jobs are earning mid to high six figures...more than you ever earned in salary. Jealous of those friends? And you have no idea of my salaried years! And your friends, like your boat, are not typical. He must hate their guts since they are firmly in that 1% of the "rich" that he vilifies here. (that starts somewhere between $500k and 550k) And are probably lawyers or government advisors. Advising the government to overspend even more. |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
F.O.A.D. wrote:
wrote: On 13 Aug 2014 16:17:05 GMT, F.O.A.D. wrote: Harry is schizophrenic in this regard. On the one hand he touts college for everyone and then he talks about how wonderful the training is in the trade unions. I tend to agree that some of the best job opportunities will lie in the trades. I know a lot of guys in skilled trades with four year college degrees. That doesn't say much for the education then does it. D'oh. Most of them got their degrees while working in the trades. You know...intellectual pursuits. Close friend, a plumber, just got an M.A. in philosophy. Apparently not everyone is satisfied ossifying mentally in SW Florida. And that liberal arts degree did what for his income? Is a hobby only. |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
On 8/13/14, 6:54 PM, Califbill wrote:
F.O.A.D. wrote: wrote: On 13 Aug 2014 16:17:05 GMT, F.O.A.D. wrote: Harry is schizophrenic in this regard. On the one hand he touts college for everyone and then he talks about how wonderful the training is in the trade unions. I tend to agree that some of the best job opportunities will lie in the trades. I know a lot of guys in skilled trades with four year college degrees. That doesn't say much for the education then does it. D'oh. Most of them got their degrees while working in the trades. You know...intellectual pursuits. Close friend, a plumber, just got an M.A. in philosophy. Apparently not everyone is satisfied ossifying mentally in SW Florida. And that liberal arts degree did what for his income? Is a hobby only. and once again you display your utter ignorance... |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
Califbill wrote:
F.O.A.D. wrote: Califbill wrote: F.O.A.D. wrote: wrote: On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 10:00:58 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 09:18:42 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Meanwhile, unskilled jobs will continue to decline. Higher education will continue to be a prime prerequisite for those jobs that exist even in small businesses. The days of expecting middle class wages and enjoying a middle class lifestyle with nothing more than a high school diploma are over. === I understand your point and half agree with your conclusion. There's no question that skills are the key to a good job and competetive compensation but there will always be people who manage to acquire those skills in non-traditional ways. Additionally, there are certains skills that have almost always been acquired through on the job training and hard work. I'm thinking specifically of contractors, electricians, cabinet makers, finish carpenters, specialty welders, small business owners, oil field workers, etc. Harry is schizophrenic in this regard. On the one hand he touts college for everyone and then he talks about how wonderful the training is in the trade unions. I tend to agree that some of the best job opportunities will lie in the trades. I know a lot of guys in skilled trades with four year college degrees. Found out an English lit degree could not feed the family? Most of my liberal arts grad friends who have salaried jobs are earning mid to high six figures...more than you ever earned in salary. Jealous of those friends? And you have no idea of my salaried years! And your friends, like your boat, are not typical. Or real. |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
"F.O.A.D." wrote:
On 8/13/14, 6:54 PM, Califbill wrote: F.O.A.D. wrote: wrote: On 13 Aug 2014 16:17:05 GMT, F.O.A.D. wrote: Harry is schizophrenic in this regard. On the one hand he touts college for everyone and then he talks about how wonderful the training is in the trade unions. I tend to agree that some of the best job opportunities will lie in the trades. I know a lot of guys in skilled trades with four year college degrees. That doesn't say much for the education then does it. D'oh. Most of them got their degrees while working in the trades. You know...intellectual pursuits. Close friend, a plumber, just got an M.A. in philosophy. Apparently not everyone is satisfied ossifying mentally in SW Florida. And that liberal arts degree did what for his income? Is a hobby only. and once again you display your utter ignorance... Bull****! He is a plumber. Does not need an M.A. In philosophy. So is a hobby degree. How much did the tax payers kick in for his degree? I take some fun courses at the local college sometimes. Art welding, music. They are all for my entertainment. And the tax payers help pay for my entertainment. But since I pay my taxes unlike some, maybe it is just using my own tax money. I do not have a problem with a plumber getting a degree, I have a problem with you stating that it is part of his job performance. All the plumber needs to know is **** runs downhill, and water, depending on the pressure, will go above ground level. And he needs to know is how to make the connections good and what the building code is for his area. |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
Califbill wrote:
"F.O.A.D." wrote: On 8/13/14, 6:54 PM, Califbill wrote: F.O.A.D. wrote: wrote: On 13 Aug 2014 16:17:05 GMT, F.O.A.D. wrote: Harry is schizophrenic in this regard. On the one hand he touts college for everyone and then he talks about how wonderful the training is in the trade unions. I tend to agree that some of the best job opportunities will lie in the trades. I know a lot of guys in skilled trades with four year college degrees. That doesn't say much for the education then does it. D'oh. Most of them got their degrees while working in the trades. You know...intellectual pursuits. Close friend, a plumber, just got an M.A. in philosophy. Apparently not everyone is satisfied ossifying mentally in SW Florida. And that liberal arts degree did what for his income? Is a hobby only. and once again you display your utter ignorance... Bull****! He is a plumber. Does not need an M.A. In philosophy. So is a hobby degree. How much did the tax payers kick in for his degree? I take some fun courses at the local college sometimes. Art welding, music. They are all for my entertainment. And the tax payers help pay for my entertainment. But since I pay my taxes unlike some, maybe it is just using my own tax money. I do not have a problem with a plumber getting a degree, I have a problem with you stating that it is part of his job performance. All the plumber needs to know is **** runs downhill, and water, depending on the pressure, will go above ground level. And he needs to know is how to make the connections good and what the building code is for his area. Unlike you, the plumber in question is a thinker. I never said it was part of his job. Part of your problem is that you don't understand what you read. 😀 -- Posted from my iPhone |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
F.O.A.D. wrote:
Califbill wrote: "F.O.A.D." wrote: On 8/13/14, 6:54 PM, Califbill wrote: F.O.A.D. wrote: wrote: On 13 Aug 2014 16:17:05 GMT, F.O.A.D. wrote: Harry is schizophrenic in this regard. On the one hand he touts college for everyone and then he talks about how wonderful the training is in the trade unions. I tend to agree that some of the best job opportunities will lie in the trades. I know a lot of guys in skilled trades with four year college degrees. That doesn't say much for the education then does it. D'oh. Most of them got their degrees while working in the trades. You know...intellectual pursuits. Close friend, a plumber, just got an M.A. in philosophy. Apparently not everyone is satisfied ossifying mentally in SW Florida. And that liberal arts degree did what for his income? Is a hobby only. and once again you display your utter ignorance... Bull****! He is a plumber. Does not need an M.A. In philosophy. So is a hobby degree. How much did the tax payers kick in for his degree? I take some fun courses at the local college sometimes. Art welding, music. They are all for my entertainment. And the tax payers help pay for my entertainment. But since I pay my taxes unlike some, maybe it is just using my own tax money. I do not have a problem with a plumber getting a degree, I have a problem with you stating that it is part of his job performance. All the plumber needs to know is **** runs downhill, and water, depending on the pressure, will go above ground level. And he needs to know is how to make the connections good and what the building code is for his area. Unlike you, the plumber in question is a thinker. I never said it was part of his job. Part of your problem is that you don't understand what you read. 😀 You do not understand what you write. |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
BAR wrote:
In article 1665186019429651526.492762bmckeenospam- , says... F.O.A.D. wrote: Califbill wrote: F.O.A.D. wrote: wrote: On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 10:00:58 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 09:18:42 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Meanwhile, unskilled jobs will continue to decline. Higher education will continue to be a prime prerequisite for those jobs that exist even in small businesses. The days of expecting middle class wages and enjoying a middle class lifestyle with nothing more than a high school diploma are over. === I understand your point and half agree with your conclusion. There's no question that skills are the key to a good job and competetive compensation but there will always be people who manage to acquire those skills in non-traditional ways. Additionally, there are certains skills that have almost always been acquired through on the job training and hard work. I'm thinking specifically of contractors, electricians, cabinet makers, finish carpenters, specialty welders, small business owners, oil field workers, etc. Harry is schizophrenic in this regard. On the one hand he touts college for everyone and then he talks about how wonderful the training is in the trade unions. I tend to agree that some of the best job opportunities will lie in the trades. I know a lot of guys in skilled trades with four year college degrees. Found out an English lit degree could not feed the family? Most of my liberal arts grad friends who have salaried jobs are earning mid to high six figures...more than you ever earned in salary. Jealous of those friends? And you have no idea of my salaried years! And your friends, like your boat, are not typical. Salaried jobs are not in the mid to high six figures. Most of those jobs are where performance bonus's get you above 300K. Maybe they are Goldman Sackus workers? There are mid to high 6 figure salaries around here. But most are senior VP and above positions. In the high tech jobs. I doubt most of those go to an English lit graduate. |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
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Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
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Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
On Wednesday, August 13, 2014 9:30:06 AM UTC-4, H*a*r*r*o*l*d wrote:
History will reveal that labor unions and the liberalization of America will be the cause of death of the once greatest nation on earth. That needed to be quoted. :-) |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
wrote:
On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 22:53:34 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 15:03:13 -0400, wrote: On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 12:37:54 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 8/13/2014 9:50 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote: There are two ways to respond to your assessment. The first is to cast the blame on those who have been successful and demand a cut of the fruits of their labor. The second is to qualify oneself via training and education for the jobs that exist in a highly competitive world ... that is only becoming *more* competitive. For most, the second route was drilled into us as youngsters. Unlike today, we were never taught to "expect" it due to some societal right. The required education may be acquired in many ways. It doesn't necessarily require daddy's fat checkbook. I'd also add that it often takes many years of work to rise to the "middle class" financial category. Some people seem to think it's a "right" and should start as soon as you become an adult. I didn't achieve a "middle class" lifestyle until well into my 30's. If you believe the assessment made by millionaire media and author types, I never have. There is a story floating around the talk shows now that you need $150,000 for the basic necessities of life ... what bull****! === It depends on your life style and expectations. $150K sounds a bit short to me but we probably live better than many. We never made over $100k combined until recently and I don't think we were living badly. We had "paid for" cars, boats and this house. Our daughter came out of college without debt and we actually never owed money for anything but the condo in Treasure Island. I paid it off early and we had that free and clear too. I am also not sure I know anyone who makes much more than $100k, most make less, some a lot less. This is SW Florida tho. I know it costs more to live in other places. I made more than a 100k and the wife only worked part time for a friend. And that was 12 years ago when I retired. I make at least that now with SS a couple small pensions and investment income. Not touching the ira's until this year. The 70 1/2 rule. For both wife and I. But we paid cash for just about every thing we bought, except the house. First car we financed in years was the wife's Venza. Was less than the return on investments. But we also keep cars 10+ years! and do not need the $500 a day hotel. In the 1980's we were having layoffs at a company. One engineer who reported to me was worried about finances. I said worry about the assembly line ladies who made $20k a year. He made $65k and drove a POS dodge van, and commented his wife had 4 credit cards maxed out. What did he waste money on? Sounds like he was following government spending guidelines. I do live in a higher cost of living area, but did not take money out of the house for toys when refinancing, and paid the house off. I see the same thing with a lot of the people around me. I have an acquaintance who's husband is the $500k a year VP of a high tech company. Lake house, $80k African safari this year for the family. $2mm house. One payment from bankruptcy basically. If there was a glitch in the company and he was laid off, how long could he go on severance and savings? |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 15:33:36 -0400, wrote:
I still wonder why it costs $150k to live a normal life. === Then you need a bigger boat. :-) |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 18:14:32 -0400, wrote:
On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 17:24:05 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 15:33:36 -0400, wrote: I still wonder why it costs $150k to live a normal life. === Then you need a bigger boat. :-) I have all the boat I can get up the river. If I hit the mega lotto I might pay to dredge out the whole thing so I could get a 40 footer. ;-) === If you get something with big props and a fair amount of power, you could dredge it a little at a time with prop wash. |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
On 8/14/2014 6:41 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 18:14:32 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 17:24:05 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 15:33:36 -0400, wrote: I still wonder why it costs $150k to live a normal life. === Then you need a bigger boat. :-) I have all the boat I can get up the river. If I hit the mega lotto I might pay to dredge out the whole thing so I could get a 40 footer. ;-) === If you get something with big props and a fair amount of power, you could dredge it a little at a time with prop wash. Just always do it on an outgoing tide... |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
On 8/14/2014 6:41 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 18:14:32 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 17:24:05 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 15:33:36 -0400, wrote: I still wonder why it costs $150k to live a normal life. === Then you need a bigger boat. :-) I have all the boat I can get up the river. If I hit the mega lotto I might pay to dredge out the whole thing so I could get a 40 footer. ;-) === If you get something with big props and a fair amount of power, you could dredge it a little at a time with prop wash. There's a name for that, but I've forgotten what it is. Not an "official" name ... more of a humor thing. "Panamanian dredging" or something like that. I did a bit after my first grounding on the ICW. A sand bar had developed right in the middle of the channel beside an inlet from the ocean following a storm. Fortunately I had heard it was there on the radio and was going slow so no damage was done but the soft sand was enough to keep stalling the engines when trying to pull back off the sand bar in reverse. After a few tries I put the shifts in "forward" and was able to slowly kick the RPM's up a bit without the boat moving forward and held it there for a while. Then, I shifted to reverse. It was enough to create a couple of mini channels behind the props and rudders and allowed me to pull the boat off the sand bar into deeper water. |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
On 8/14/2014 6:10 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/14/2014 6:41 PM, Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 18:14:32 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 17:24:05 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 15:33:36 -0400, wrote: I still wonder why it costs $150k to live a normal life. === Then you need a bigger boat. :-) I have all the boat I can get up the river. If I hit the mega lotto I might pay to dredge out the whole thing so I could get a 40 footer. ;-) === If you get something with big props and a fair amount of power, you could dredge it a little at a time with prop wash. There's a name for that, but I've forgotten what it is. Not an "official" name ... more of a humor thing. "Panamanian dredging" or something like that. I did a bit after my first grounding on the ICW. A sand bar had developed right in the middle of the channel beside an inlet from the ocean following a storm. Fortunately I had heard it was there on the radio and was going slow so no damage was done but the soft sand was enough to keep stalling the engines when trying to pull back off the sand bar in reverse. After a few tries I put the shifts in "forward" and was able to slowly kick the RPM's up a bit without the boat moving forward and held it there for a while. Then, I shifted to reverse. It was enough to create a couple of mini channels behind the props and rudders and allowed me to pull the boat off the sand bar into deeper water. Should have installed down thrusters in front of the props to clear the way. -- "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them". Thomas Jefferson |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
On 8/14/2014 8:17 PM, H*a*r*r*o*l*d wrote:
On 8/14/2014 6:10 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/14/2014 6:41 PM, Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 18:14:32 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 17:24:05 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 15:33:36 -0400, wrote: I still wonder why it costs $150k to live a normal life. === Then you need a bigger boat. :-) I have all the boat I can get up the river. If I hit the mega lotto I might pay to dredge out the whole thing so I could get a 40 footer. ;-) === If you get something with big props and a fair amount of power, you could dredge it a little at a time with prop wash. There's a name for that, but I've forgotten what it is. Not an "official" name ... more of a humor thing. "Panamanian dredging" or something like that. I did a bit after my first grounding on the ICW. A sand bar had developed right in the middle of the channel beside an inlet from the ocean following a storm. Fortunately I had heard it was there on the radio and was going slow so no damage was done but the soft sand was enough to keep stalling the engines when trying to pull back off the sand bar in reverse. After a few tries I put the shifts in "forward" and was able to slowly kick the RPM's up a bit without the boat moving forward and held it there for a while. Then, I shifted to reverse. It was enough to create a couple of mini channels behind the props and rudders and allowed me to pull the boat off the sand bar into deeper water. Should have installed down thrusters in front of the props to clear the way. There was a dredge barge just ahead of us that was clearing the sand bar. He was pretty much in the middle of the ICW channel. I called him on the radio and asked him what side was clear to run and gave him my draft (4.5'). That's when I learned that they won't tell you or make any recommendations. I guess it's a liability thing or something. All he said was that a boat had successfully passed him on his port side. I gave it a go, but it was a no-go. That was the first time. I did it again further down the ICW that was totally due to my stupidity and not paying attention. |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 20:36:54 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 8/14/2014 8:17 PM, H*a*r*r*o*l*d wrote: On 8/14/2014 6:10 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/14/2014 6:41 PM, Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 18:14:32 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 17:24:05 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 15:33:36 -0400, wrote: I still wonder why it costs $150k to live a normal life. === Then you need a bigger boat. :-) I have all the boat I can get up the river. If I hit the mega lotto I might pay to dredge out the whole thing so I could get a 40 footer. ;-) === If you get something with big props and a fair amount of power, you could dredge it a little at a time with prop wash. There's a name for that, but I've forgotten what it is. Not an "official" name ... more of a humor thing. "Panamanian dredging" or something like that. I did a bit after my first grounding on the ICW. A sand bar had developed right in the middle of the channel beside an inlet from the ocean following a storm. Fortunately I had heard it was there on the radio and was going slow so no damage was done but the soft sand was enough to keep stalling the engines when trying to pull back off the sand bar in reverse. After a few tries I put the shifts in "forward" and was able to slowly kick the RPM's up a bit without the boat moving forward and held it there for a while. Then, I shifted to reverse. It was enough to create a couple of mini channels behind the props and rudders and allowed me to pull the boat off the sand bar into deeper water. Should have installed down thrusters in front of the props to clear the way. There was a dredge barge just ahead of us that was clearing the sand bar. He was pretty much in the middle of the ICW channel. I called him on the radio and asked him what side was clear to run and gave him my draft (4.5'). That's when I learned that they won't tell you or make any recommendations. I guess it's a liability thing or something. All he said was that a boat had successfully passed him on his port side. I gave it a go, but it was a no-go. That was the first time. I did it again further down the ICW that was totally due to my stupidity and not paying attention. ==== Dredges are supposed to display day shapes which indicate which side is safe to pass on: https://www.dropbox.com/s/fok7mymmaiarhdr/dredges_2.gif |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
On 8/14/2014 9:43 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 20:36:54 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 8/14/2014 8:17 PM, H*a*r*r*o*l*d wrote: On 8/14/2014 6:10 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/14/2014 6:41 PM, Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 18:14:32 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 17:24:05 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 15:33:36 -0400, wrote: I still wonder why it costs $150k to live a normal life. === Then you need a bigger boat. :-) I have all the boat I can get up the river. If I hit the mega lotto I might pay to dredge out the whole thing so I could get a 40 footer. ;-) === If you get something with big props and a fair amount of power, you could dredge it a little at a time with prop wash. There's a name for that, but I've forgotten what it is. Not an "official" name ... more of a humor thing. "Panamanian dredging" or something like that. I did a bit after my first grounding on the ICW. A sand bar had developed right in the middle of the channel beside an inlet from the ocean following a storm. Fortunately I had heard it was there on the radio and was going slow so no damage was done but the soft sand was enough to keep stalling the engines when trying to pull back off the sand bar in reverse. After a few tries I put the shifts in "forward" and was able to slowly kick the RPM's up a bit without the boat moving forward and held it there for a while. Then, I shifted to reverse. It was enough to create a couple of mini channels behind the props and rudders and allowed me to pull the boat off the sand bar into deeper water. Should have installed down thrusters in front of the props to clear the way. There was a dredge barge just ahead of us that was clearing the sand bar. He was pretty much in the middle of the ICW channel. I called him on the radio and asked him what side was clear to run and gave him my draft (4.5'). That's when I learned that they won't tell you or make any recommendations. I guess it's a liability thing or something. All he said was that a boat had successfully passed him on his port side. I gave it a go, but it was a no-go. That was the first time. I did it again further down the ICW that was totally due to my stupidity and not paying attention. ==== Dredges are supposed to display day shapes which indicate which side is safe to pass on: https://www.dropbox.com/s/fok7mymmaiarhdr/dredges_2.gif I don't recall any displays. (wouldn't have know anyway). The dredge operator simply said something like, "Captain, I can't tell you what side is ok to pass, but a boat about your size recently passed me on my port side". |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
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Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
In article ,
says... On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 00:35:02 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Mon, 11 Aug 2014 13:16:58 -0400, wrote: The stocks are not just paper, they represent actual ownership of some darn good companies and a claim on their earnings and free cash flow. I know that is the theory but there is a lot of air under most of the stock prices these days.This has a certain Ponzi aspect too. As long as more money coming in than is taken out, it does OK. If there is a significant net loss of money coming into the market it will crash pretty fast. === You're entitled to your opinion of course, and there are no doubt some over inflated companies out there along with a handfull of outright frauds not yet discovered. On the other hand there are also some real captains of industry who make real products and sell them worldwide. I'm thinking of names like GE, IBM, Intel, Apple, Cisco, etc. These are companies that not only make solid products and sell them well, but they also have provable positive cash flows and pay dividends. There are many others of course, and there are also many companies in sectors such as energy and transportation with very solid fundamentals and positive cash flows. Cash flow is a good indicator because it is real, easy to measure and not easily subject to accounting slight of hand. I just think the whole market is way overdue for a correction no matter what and if you have 30 million boomers liquidating their 401ks there will be an impact on the market. What makes you think 30m boomers have 401k's? That's ridiculous. The total 401k participation is about 50 million. And why would they suddenly liquidate it? Besides, most retirees depend on SS, and the wealthy ones pass equities to their heirs. And the 401k market is a small part of total equities from what I can find out. Funny how the numbers business guards their numbers. |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
On 8/16/2014 1:45 AM, Boating All Out wrote:
In article , says... On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 00:35:02 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Mon, 11 Aug 2014 13:16:58 -0400, wrote: The stocks are not just paper, they represent actual ownership of some darn good companies and a claim on their earnings and free cash flow. I know that is the theory but there is a lot of air under most of the stock prices these days.This has a certain Ponzi aspect too. As long as more money coming in than is taken out, it does OK. If there is a significant net loss of money coming into the market it will crash pretty fast. === You're entitled to your opinion of course, and there are no doubt some over inflated companies out there along with a handfull of outright frauds not yet discovered. On the other hand there are also some real captains of industry who make real products and sell them worldwide. I'm thinking of names like GE, IBM, Intel, Apple, Cisco, etc. These are companies that not only make solid products and sell them well, but they also have provable positive cash flows and pay dividends. There are many others of course, and there are also many companies in sectors such as energy and transportation with very solid fundamentals and positive cash flows. Cash flow is a good indicator because it is real, easy to measure and not easily subject to accounting slight of hand. I just think the whole market is way overdue for a correction no matter what and if you have 30 million boomers liquidating their 401ks there will be an impact on the market. What makes you think 30m boomers have 401k's? That's ridiculous. The total 401k participation is about 50 million. And why would they suddenly liquidate it? Besides, most retirees depend on SS, and the wealthy ones pass equities to their heirs. And the 401k market is a small part of total equities from what I can find out. Funny how the numbers business guards their numbers. The grand daddy of al mutual funds is 60% held in 401K plans. The Gubmint requires systematic liquidation beginning at age 70 1/2 -- "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them". Thomas Jefferson |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
On 8/14/2014 12:09 PM, Califbill wrote:
wrote: On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 22:53:34 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 15:03:13 -0400, wrote: On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 12:37:54 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 8/13/2014 9:50 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote: There are two ways to respond to your assessment. The first is to cast the blame on those who have been successful and demand a cut of the fruits of their labor. The second is to qualify oneself via training and education for the jobs that exist in a highly competitive world ... that is only becoming *more* competitive. For most, the second route was drilled into us as youngsters. Unlike today, we were never taught to "expect" it due to some societal right. The required education may be acquired in many ways. It doesn't necessarily require daddy's fat checkbook. I'd also add that it often takes many years of work to rise to the "middle class" financial category. Some people seem to think it's a "right" and should start as soon as you become an adult. I didn't achieve a "middle class" lifestyle until well into my 30's. If you believe the assessment made by millionaire media and author types, I never have. There is a story floating around the talk shows now that you need $150,000 for the basic necessities of life ... what bull****! === It depends on your life style and expectations. $150K sounds a bit short to me but we probably live better than many. We never made over $100k combined until recently and I don't think we were living badly. We had "paid for" cars, boats and this house. Our daughter came out of college without debt and we actually never owed money for anything but the condo in Treasure Island. I paid it off early and we had that free and clear too. I am also not sure I know anyone who makes much more than $100k, most make less, some a lot less. This is SW Florida tho. I know it costs more to live in other places. I made more than a 100k and the wife only worked part time for a friend. And that was 12 years ago when I retired. I make at least that now with SS a couple small pensions and investment income. At 100k, you're doing very well. My wife and I have a few years before retirement, 59 and 55, If we us the 4% withdrawal rule on our saving and add SS in we should be near $80k. However as we live now, we only spend about $40k a year. We have no debt and haven't for about 23 years. We still have one child left with two more in years of college, so that expense will be gone soon. Recently I ran across this info on net worth, (assets minus liabilities). http://web.stanford.edu/group/scspi/...lth-levels.pdf It is disappointing that 50% of the population has less than $60,000 in net worth. See the lower right chart on the first page. If you have $1.4 million in net worth you are in the top 5%. As they say, “the first millions the hardest” :-) Not touching the ira's until this year. The 70 1/2 rule. For both wife and I. But we paid cash for just about every thing we bought, except the house. First car we financed in years was the wife's Venza. Was less than the return on investments. But we also keep cars 10+ years! and do not need the $500 a day hotel. In the 1980's we were having layoffs at a company. One engineer who reported to me was worried about finances. I said worry about the assembly line ladies who made $20k a year. He made $65k and drove a POS dodge van, and commented his wife had 4 credit cards maxed out. What did he waste money on? It is not just people making $65K, there are people making $250k, and don't save. They could never retire in the lifestyle they have become accustomed to. Sounds like he was following government spending guidelines. I do live in a higher cost of living area, but did not take money out of the house for toys when refinancing, and paid the house off. I see the same thing with a lot of the people around me. I have an acquaintance who's husband is the $500k a year VP of a high tech company. Lake house, $80k African safari this year for the family. $2mm house. One payment from bankruptcy basically. If there was a glitch in the company and he was laid off, how long could he go on severance and savings? Oh, ya, like I said above. I just hope my wife's and my lifestyle has rubbed off on our kids. My daughter is married and we were very disappointed when her hubby bought a new car. The kid was offered a job, and went and bought the car before his first day of work. Bad sign. My daughter bought a house shortly after that, I have this thought that she did that just to put them in debt, so he wouldn't spend any more. She wasn't happy with his poor decision. She's still only 21 years old and has a good job, already got an advancement with a pay increase and company vehicle, and a nice home. Now, if I can just get the son through college! :-) Mikek --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
Buying a new car isn't so bad if it's something like a Toyota Corolla.
Payments would wouldn't be too much and you'd have the piece of mind that they are in a reliable vehicle. |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
amdx wrote:
On 8/14/2014 12:09 PM, Califbill wrote: wrote: On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 22:53:34 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 15:03:13 -0400, wrote: On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 12:37:54 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 8/13/2014 9:50 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote: There are two ways to respond to your assessment. The first is to cast the blame on those who have been successful and demand a cut of the fruits of their labor. The second is to qualify oneself via training and education for the jobs that exist in a highly competitive world ... that is only becoming *more* competitive. For most, the second route was drilled into us as youngsters. Unlike today, we were never taught to "expect" it due to some societal right. The required education may be acquired in many ways. It doesn't necessarily require daddy's fat checkbook. I'd also add that it often takes many years of work to rise to the "middle class" financial category. Some people seem to think it's a "right" and should start as soon as you become an adult. I didn't achieve a "middle class" lifestyle until well into my 30's. If you believe the assessment made by millionaire media and author types, I never have. There is a story floating around the talk shows now that you need $150,000 for the basic necessities of life ... what bull****! === It depends on your life style and expectations. $150K sounds a bit short to me but we probably live better than many. We never made over $100k combined until recently and I don't think we were living badly. We had "paid for" cars, boats and this house. Our daughter came out of college without debt and we actually never owed money for anything but the condo in Treasure Island. I paid it off early and we had that free and clear too. I am also not sure I know anyone who makes much more than $100k, most make less, some a lot less. This is SW Florida tho. I know it costs more to live in other places. I made more than a 100k and the wife only worked part time for a friend. And that was 12 years ago when I retired. I make at least that now with SS a couple small pensions and investment income. At 100k, you're doing very well. My wife and I have a few years before retirement, 59 and 55, If we us the 4% withdrawal rule on our saving and add SS in we should be near $80k. However as we live now, we only spend about $40k a year. We have no debt and haven't for about 23 years. We still have one child left with two more in years of college, so that expense will be gone soon. Recently I ran across this info on net worth, (assets minus liabilities). http://web.stanford.edu/group/scspi/...lth-levels.pdf It is disappointing that 50% of the population has less than $60,000 in net worth. See the lower right chart on the first page. If you have $1.4 million in net worth you are in the top 5%. As they say, “the first millions the hardest” :-) Not touching the ira's until this year. The 70 1/2 rule. For both wife and I. But we paid cash for just about every thing we bought, except the house. First car we financed in years was the wife's Venza. Was less than the return on investments. But we also keep cars 10+ years! and do not need the $500 a day hotel. In the 1980's we were having layoffs at a company. One engineer who reported to me was worried about finances. I said worry about the assembly line ladies who made $20k a year. He made $65k and drove a POS dodge van, and commented his wife had 4 credit cards maxed out. What did he waste money on? It is not just people making $65K, there are people making $250k, and don't save. They could never retire in the lifestyle they have become accustomed to. Sounds like he was following government spending guidelines. I do live in a higher cost of living area, but did not take money out of the house for toys when refinancing, and paid the house off. I see the same thing with a lot of the people around me. I have an acquaintance who's husband is the $500k a year VP of a high tech company. Lake house, $80k African safari this year for the family. $2mm house. One payment from bankruptcy basically. If there was a glitch in the company and he was laid off, how long could he go on severance and savings? Oh, ya, like I said above. I just hope my wife's and my lifestyle has rubbed off on our kids. My daughter is married and we were very disappointed when her hubby bought a new car. The kid was offered a job, and went and bought the car before his first day of work. Bad sign. My daughter bought a house shortly after that, I have this thought that she did that just to put them in debt, so he wouldn't spend any more. She wasn't happy with his poor decision. She's still only 21 years old and has a good job, already got an advancement with a pay increase and company vehicle, and a nice home. Now, if I can just get the son through college! :-) Mikek --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com The $65k was in the late 1980's. I started working when I was in junior high school. Making pallets. Piece work. Saved money then. When I went to work at Western Electric warehouse in 1961, I lived at home, and made about $65 a week. Saved. $30 in the credit union. Never saw the money, did not miss the money. Adjusted lifestyle to my take home income. I paid for college educations for my 2 daughters. Paid via credit card as much as I could, and never ran a CC balance. Got miles or rebates for the money spent. I have a friend who runs a donut store. Favorite activity is shopping. She and her husband have a large CC balance. 18-23% financing charge! How you going to save for later years? And how many of those CC bought items will still be in use? Like the advertisements for refinancing your home, and they guy says he took out $100K. Why? As to your article, has a radical error in part if it. States the wealth went down 23% or so. Most of that was in value of the house, and how much had the sales price of the house inflated in the previous 8 year? I could say I lost $300,000 at the of the housing bubble. My hose I paid $139k for 1979, went from $1.2mm to $900k. I really lost nothing. Paper profits, and if I had sold at $1.2mm, I would have had to shell out more for the same amount of house, unless I moved to a lower cost area. |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
True North wrote:
Buying a new car isn't so bad if it's something like a Toyota Corolla. Payments would wouldn't be too much and you'd have the piece of mind that they are in a reliable vehicle. It can be a bad decision, no matter what the price and financing. He was just offered a job. He did not have a job yet. And did he need a new car? Forget about payments! I remember a few years ago, where someone here said they only looked at the monthly payment amount on a boat. Not the fact that it was a low end Bayliner and the financing was for 5 years. You have to finance a $19,000 boat for 5 years, you can not afford to run the boat. Is why my wife and I are very comfortable. We did not waste money. I bought my boat in 1995, 4 years old, for $20k cash. I have put a new engine in and 2 reprints on the boat over the years. But a new replacement for my boat is about $80k. Save at least 10% of your money! and when you have extra! save that also. When it comes retirement time, you can afford more than rice and beans. |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
On 8/16/2014 12:28 PM, True North wrote:
Buying a new car isn't so bad if it's something like a Toyota Corolla. Payments would wouldn't be too much and you'd have the piece of mind that they are in a reliable vehicle. How much would be too much? -- "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them". Thomas Jefferson |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
FloriduhFunnyMan says.....
". How much would be too much? " For you...$ 1.68 For normal youngins' with a reasonable job, I'd guess a couple hundred a month. |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
On 8/16/2014 2:43 PM, Califbill wrote:
True North wrote: Buying a new car isn't so bad if it's something like a Toyota Corolla. Payments would wouldn't be too much and you'd have the piece of mind that they are in a reliable vehicle. It can be a bad decision, no matter what the price and financing. He was just offered a job. Yep, with the state. He did not have a job yet. Well, the state said he was hired. And did he need a new car? Does anyone NEED a NEW car? Forget about payments! Yep, In the last 20 years we have bought a 95 Camry for $6,500, a 97 Lexus for $4,000 a 97 Toyota T-100 for $11,000, a 97 Chevy van for $8,000, and a 2000 Avalon for $7,500. The Camry is sold, my son has the Lexus at college, runs fine with 163k miles. The others have less than 100k miles, the Avalon looks like new, and the T-100 is still a sharp truck. The van is a work van in our business. Never bought a new car, but my wife is sharp, she plans, she's patient and persistent. She bought these cars at a good price, except for the T-100 which was at a dealer, but we have our moneys worth, we have had it 14 years, put 43k miles on it and it has 91k miles now. Should be good for another 20 years. :-) Oh and the point, we had the money saved before we bought the vehicle, no payments. I remember a few years ago, where someone here said they only looked at the monthly payment amount on a boat. Not the fact that it was a low end Bayliner and the financing was for 5 years. You have to finance a $19,000 boat for 5 years, you can not afford to run the boat. Is why my wife and I are very comfortable. We did not waste money. I bought my boat in 1995, 4 years old, for $20k cash. I have put a new engine in and 2 reprints on the boat over the years. But a new replacement for my boat is about $80k. Save at least 10% of your money! and when you have extra! save that also. When it comes retirement time, you can afford more than rice and beans. We can afford more than rice, but we eat it a lot, my wife is Asian. Not so many beans. We don't eat out very often, she uses coupons and stocks up on sales. I'm sure we have more than 100 rolls of toilet paper and 100 rolls of paper towel in stock. Yes, people waste so much money, and never think about saving for retirement. I have my daughter saving in a retirement fund at 21 yrs old. At one time she said she wanted 2 million dollars by the time she was 40. The two of them have a good income, if she can get him on board, they could do it. He has an advantage working for the state, with a good pension, plus retirement savings. Anyway, hope this gets some young people thinking. Mikek |
Calculating S.S. benefit at 62 vs 66
True North wrote:
FloriduhFunnyMan says..... ". How much would be too much? " For you...$ 1.68 For normal youngins' with a reasonable job, I'd guess a couple hundred a month. What a bull**** statement! A couple hundred a month? How much would a new starting Crown Corp. janitor make? How much is rent? Food? Insurance? Buy a 2 year old Corolla, if you absolutely need a newer car. How much did it cost you a year for cars the last couple years? How much did it cost to own a Rav4 for a year or two? Then trade for a bigger car? How much is registration on a new car? Here is $70 plus 2% of the nominal value. What is registration in Canada? Where the kid bought the new car, without even starting the job? |
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