On 7/14/2014 9:34 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 7/14/2014 11:05 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jul 2014 08:23:50 -0600, H*a*r*r*o*l*d
wrote:

So which is it, genius, which is the predominant factor in muzzle flip,
weight or barrel length?

===

Actually the predominant factor is muzzle velocity assuming bullets of
equal weight. Energy increases as the square of velocity so an
increase from 900 fps (typical light target load) to 1600 fps would
result in an energy increase of 3.16 .


I agree with that.


All things considered, yes, but Krause qualified his comparison by
saying the same/similar bullet was used.

--
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the
government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of
taking care of them".
Thomas Jefferson

On 7/14/14, 12:00 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jul 2014 11:02:43 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 7/14/14, 10:48 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jul 2014 08:40:09 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 7/14/14, 8:19 AM, Tim wrote:
Harry, I'm not speculating. The guy is using hand loaded led bullets. The gun doesn't have the crack of a jacketed round and you can see the lead residue spraying out the barrel. I've shot .357 for years with lots of different loads and bullets so...


I wasn't commenting about the bullet, per se. I was commenting about the
powder charge.

Here's a question for you...

Of what components is a "true" .357 MAG round composed, and in what amounts?

A"true" .357 round is supersonic with chamber pressures well over
20,000 PSI
It will be a jacketed bullet.
You can get SS velocities out of a small cast bullet like a 40gr.22
but when they start getting heavier, they will strip right through the
rifling if you try to push them too hard. They still copper plate
better brands of .22rf to keep the bore cleaner.
Perhaps if you had done some reloading you would have a better idea of
the effect of powders and bullets. Your knowledge seems to be what you
google up at the moment and not much actual experience.
I had a ****load of cast .357 (dia) bullets, that I was getting pretty
cheap and I tried them with all sorts of different combinations of
powders and primers. Even at typical .38 +p velocities, accuracy
starts falling off pretty fast and lead fouling becomes a big problem.

They are perfect for what this guy was doing tho, shooting targets at
fairly short ranges and using "modest loads", how he describes them
himself.



I'll be glad to take you more seriously when you post the actual
specifications of what he was shooting. Absent that, you're just guessing.

For the 20th time, I am not interested in reloading. I shoot jacketed
ammo only.

So you are saying you don't have a clue either and you don't even have
a point of reference.


I will simply take the video at face value. He says he is shooting a
modest load. We all believe him.


Modest is not a quantifier. Modest compared to, say, Buffalo Bore?

--
Republicans . . . the anti-immigrant, anti-contraception, anti-student,
anti-middle class, pro-impeachment party that shut down the government
last year for no reason.

On 7/14/14, 12:54 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jul 2014 12:19:05 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 7/14/14, 12:00 PM, wrote:

I will simply take the video at face value. He says he is shooting a
modest load. We all believe him.


Modest is not a quantifier. Modest compared to, say, Buffalo Bore?

Modest compared to .357 velocities. Did you actually look at the video
and listen to what he was saying?
He made a big deal about how versatile this type of gun was and that
you can shoot .38 class loads in it. It was after that when he called
these modest.
Then you have the cast bullets. That insures he is shooting a fairly
light load.
I agree with the others, the muzzle blast was very light and there was
virtually zero muzzle flash. Maybe your eyes are closed when you shoot
your .357 but there is quite a flash with a full load, particularly in
a short barrel pistol.

I have tube enhancer on this machine and I can clip off some stills
from that video if you like. We can compare then to the other video
you posted to get an idea about what he is shooting.


The only way we would know what he was shooting is if he told us.

--
Republicans . . . the anti-immigrant, anti-contraception, anti-student,
anti-middle class, pro-impeachment party that shut down the government
last year for no reason.

On 7/14/14, 3:50 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jul 2014 14:12:35 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 7/14/14, 12:54 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jul 2014 12:19:05 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 7/14/14, 12:00 PM, wrote:

I will simply take the video at face value. He says he is shooting a
modest load. We all believe him.


Modest is not a quantifier. Modest compared to, say, Buffalo Bore?

Modest compared to .357 velocities. Did you actually look at the video
and listen to what he was saying?
He made a big deal about how versatile this type of gun was and that
you can shoot .38 class loads in it. It was after that when he called
these modest.
Then you have the cast bullets. That insures he is shooting a fairly
light load.
I agree with the others, the muzzle blast was very light and there was
virtually zero muzzle flash. Maybe your eyes are closed when you shoot
your .357 but there is quite a flash with a full load, particularly in
a short barrel pistol.

I have tube enhancer on this machine and I can clip off some stills
from that video if you like. We can compare then to the other video
you posted to get an idea about what he is shooting.


The only way we would know what he was shooting is if he told us.

He did tell us, you just refuse to accept it.
I say again. shoot is a video of your rock steady hold and a picture
of the ammo, we can judge for ourselves.
Otherwise it is just a waste of the bandwidth to continue.


I didn't hear or see any numbers in that vid.

--
Republicans . . . the anti-immigrant, anti-contraception, anti-student,
anti-middle class, pro-impeachment party that shut down the government
last year for no reason.

On 7/14/2014 4:32 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 7/14/14, 3:50 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jul 2014 14:12:35 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 7/14/14, 12:54 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jul 2014 12:19:05 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 7/14/14, 12:00 PM, wrote:

I will simply take the video at face value. He says he is shooting a
modest load. We all believe him.


Modest is not a quantifier. Modest compared to, say, Buffalo Bore?

Modest compared to .357 velocities. Did you actually look at the video
and listen to what he was saying?
He made a big deal about how versatile this type of gun was and that
you can shoot .38 class loads in it. It was after that when he called
these modest.
Then you have the cast bullets. That insures he is shooting a fairly
light load.
I agree with the others, the muzzle blast was very light and there was
virtually zero muzzle flash. Maybe your eyes are closed when you shoot
your .357 but there is quite a flash with a full load, particularly in
a short barrel pistol.

I have tube enhancer on this machine and I can clip off some stills
from that video if you like. We can compare then to the other video
you posted to get an idea about what he is shooting.


The only way we would know what he was shooting is if he told us.

He did tell us, you just refuse to accept it.
I say again. shoot is a video of your rock steady hold and a picture
of the ammo, we can judge for ourselves.
Otherwise it is just a waste of the bandwidth to continue.


I didn't hear or see any numbers in that vid.


Why don't you just acknowledge that the video link you posted presumably
to show little muzzle flip of a .357 Magnum (with a 3-inch barrel) when
using a "proper grip" .... doesn't.

Several experienced (and some less experienced) have questioned what
type of rounds he was shooting ... the guy in the video calls them
"modest" rounds and, most importantly, *you* don't know what he was
shooting either.

It's ok to be wrong sometimes.

On 7/14/14, 5:26 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 7/14/2014 4:32 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 7/14/14, 3:50 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jul 2014 14:12:35 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 7/14/14, 12:54 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jul 2014 12:19:05 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 7/14/14, 12:00 PM, wrote:

I will simply take the video at face value. He says he is shooting a
modest load. We all believe him.


Modest is not a quantifier. Modest compared to, say, Buffalo Bore?

Modest compared to .357 velocities. Did you actually look at the video
and listen to what he was saying?
He made a big deal about how versatile this type of gun was and that
you can shoot .38 class loads in it. It was after that when he called
these modest.
Then you have the cast bullets. That insures he is shooting a fairly
light load.
I agree with the others, the muzzle blast was very light and there was
virtually zero muzzle flash. Maybe your eyes are closed when you shoot
your .357 but there is quite a flash with a full load, particularly in
a short barrel pistol.

I have tube enhancer on this machine and I can clip off some stills
from that video if you like. We can compare then to the other video
you posted to get an idea about what he is shooting.


The only way we would know what he was shooting is if he told us.

He did tell us, you just refuse to accept it.
I say again. shoot is a video of your rock steady hold and a picture
of the ammo, we can judge for ourselves.
Otherwise it is just a waste of the bandwidth to continue.


I didn't hear or see any numbers in that vid.


Why don't you just acknowledge that the video link you posted presumably
to show little muzzle flip of a .357 Magnum (with a 3-inch barrel) when
using a "proper grip" .... doesn't.

Several experienced (and some less experienced) have questioned what
type of rounds he was shooting ... the guy in the video calls them
"modest" rounds and, most importantly, *you* don't know what he was
shooting either.

It's ok to be wrong sometimes.



All we have is unquantified guesses, no hard date. Zip, zilch. It's
certainly okay to question what sorts of rounds he was shooting, but
there are no answers.

--
Republicans . . . the anti-immigrant, anti-contraception, anti-student,
anti-middle class, pro-impeachment party that shut down the government
last year for no reason.

On 7/14/14, 5:56 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 7/14/14, 5:26 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 7/14/2014 4:32 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 7/14/14, 3:50 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jul 2014 14:12:35 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 7/14/14, 12:54 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jul 2014 12:19:05 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 7/14/14, 12:00 PM, wrote:

I will simply take the video at face value. He says he is
shooting a
modest load. We all believe him.


Modest is not a quantifier. Modest compared to, say, Buffalo Bore?

Modest compared to .357 velocities. Did you actually look at the
video
and listen to what he was saying?
He made a big deal about how versatile this type of gun was and that
you can shoot .38 class loads in it. It was after that when he called
these modest.
Then you have the cast bullets. That insures he is shooting a fairly
light load.
I agree with the others, the muzzle blast was very light and there
was
virtually zero muzzle flash. Maybe your eyes are closed when you
shoot
your .357 but there is quite a flash with a full load,
particularly in
a short barrel pistol.

I have tube enhancer on this machine and I can clip off some stills
from that video if you like. We can compare then to the other video
you posted to get an idea about what he is shooting.


The only way we would know what he was shooting is if he told us.

He did tell us, you just refuse to accept it.
I say again. shoot is a video of your rock steady hold and a picture
of the ammo, we can judge for ourselves.
Otherwise it is just a waste of the bandwidth to continue.


I didn't hear or see any numbers in that vid.


Why don't you just acknowledge that the video link you posted presumably
to show little muzzle flip of a .357 Magnum (with a 3-inch barrel) when
using a "proper grip" .... doesn't.

Several experienced (and some less experienced) have questioned what
type of rounds he was shooting ... the guy in the video calls them
"modest" rounds and, most importantly, *you* don't know what he was
shooting either.

It's ok to be wrong sometimes.



All we have is unquantified guesses, no hard date. Zip, zilch. It's
certainly okay to question what sorts of rounds he was shooting, but
there are no answers.



No hard data.

--
Republicans . . . the anti-immigrant, anti-contraception, anti-student,
anti-middle class, pro-impeachment party that shut down the government
last year for no reason.

On 7/14/2014 5:56 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 7/14/14, 5:26 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 7/14/2014 4:32 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 7/14/14, 3:50 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jul 2014 14:12:35 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 7/14/14, 12:54 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jul 2014 12:19:05 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 7/14/14, 12:00 PM, wrote:

I will simply take the video at face value. He says he is
shooting a
modest load. We all believe him.


Modest is not a quantifier. Modest compared to, say, Buffalo Bore?

Modest compared to .357 velocities. Did you actually look at the
video
and listen to what he was saying?
He made a big deal about how versatile this type of gun was and that
you can shoot .38 class loads in it. It was after that when he called
these modest.
Then you have the cast bullets. That insures he is shooting a fairly
light load.
I agree with the others, the muzzle blast was very light and there
was
virtually zero muzzle flash. Maybe your eyes are closed when you
shoot
your .357 but there is quite a flash with a full load,
particularly in
a short barrel pistol.

I have tube enhancer on this machine and I can clip off some stills
from that video if you like. We can compare then to the other video
you posted to get an idea about what he is shooting.


The only way we would know what he was shooting is if he told us.

He did tell us, you just refuse to accept it.
I say again. shoot is a video of your rock steady hold and a picture
of the ammo, we can judge for ourselves.
Otherwise it is just a waste of the bandwidth to continue.


I didn't hear or see any numbers in that vid.


Why don't you just acknowledge that the video link you posted presumably
to show little muzzle flip of a .357 Magnum (with a 3-inch barrel) when
using a "proper grip" .... doesn't.

Several experienced (and some less experienced) have questioned what
type of rounds he was shooting ... the guy in the video calls them
"modest" rounds and, most importantly, *you* don't know what he was
shooting either.

It's ok to be wrong sometimes.



All we have is unquantified guesses, no hard date. Zip, zilch. It's
certainly okay to question what sorts of rounds he was shooting, but
there are no answers.



Then why did you offer it as an example of little muzzle flip when
shooting a .357 Magnum? You said the minimal flip was due to "proper
grip, stance, etc.". Now you admit no one (including you) knows what
the hell he was shooting in it.

We know one thing. They weren't full powered, factory .357 Magnum
rounds. If they were there would be no need for his comment about them
being "modest" rounds.

On 7/14/14, 6:15 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 7/14/2014 5:56 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 7/14/14, 5:26 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 7/14/2014 4:32 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 7/14/14, 3:50 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jul 2014 14:12:35 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 7/14/14, 12:54 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jul 2014 12:19:05 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 7/14/14, 12:00 PM, wrote:

I will simply take the video at face value. He says he is
shooting a
modest load. We all believe him.


Modest is not a quantifier. Modest compared to, say, Buffalo Bore?

Modest compared to .357 velocities. Did you actually look at the
video
and listen to what he was saying?
He made a big deal about how versatile this type of gun was and that
you can shoot .38 class loads in it. It was after that when he
called
these modest.
Then you have the cast bullets. That insures he is shooting a fairly
light load.
I agree with the others, the muzzle blast was very light and there
was
virtually zero muzzle flash. Maybe your eyes are closed when you
shoot
your .357 but there is quite a flash with a full load,
particularly in
a short barrel pistol.

I have tube enhancer on this machine and I can clip off some stills
from that video if you like. We can compare then to the other video
you posted to get an idea about what he is shooting.


The only way we would know what he was shooting is if he told us.

He did tell us, you just refuse to accept it.
I say again. shoot is a video of your rock steady hold and a picture
of the ammo, we can judge for ourselves.
Otherwise it is just a waste of the bandwidth to continue.


I didn't hear or see any numbers in that vid.


Why don't you just acknowledge that the video link you posted presumably
to show little muzzle flip of a .357 Magnum (with a 3-inch barrel) when
using a "proper grip" .... doesn't.

Several experienced (and some less experienced) have questioned what
type of rounds he was shooting ... the guy in the video calls them
"modest" rounds and, most importantly, *you* don't know what he was
shooting either.

It's ok to be wrong sometimes.



All we have is unquantified guesses, no hard date. Zip, zilch. It's
certainly okay to question what sorts of rounds he was shooting, but
there are no answers.



Then why did you offer it as an example of little muzzle flip when
shooting a .357 Magnum? You said the minimal flip was due to "proper
grip, stance, etc.". Now you admit no one (including you) knows what
the hell he was shooting in it.

We know one thing. They weren't full powered, factory .357 Magnum
rounds. If they were there would be no need for his comment about them
being "modest" rounds.





This is getting funnier and funnier. Get back to us when you have some
data. My comment stands:

A heavy pistol with a long barrel helps you control a revolver's muzzle
flip, as do a proper grip and stance. Check out some of Jerry Miculek's
vids with .357s and .44s. His grip, which I "stole," helps him control
muzzle flip. No one is saying there is NO muzzle flip...but it is
controllable.






--
Republicans . . . the anti-immigrant, anti-contraception, anti-student,
anti-middle class, pro-impeachment party that shut down the government
last year for no reason.

On Monday, July 14, 2014 4:26:49 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jul 2014 17:56:41 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:



On 7/14/14, 5:26 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

On 7/14/2014 4:32 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:







I didn't hear or see any numbers in that vid.





Why don't you just acknowledge that the video link you posted presumably

to show little muzzle flip of a .357 Magnum (with a 3-inch barrel) when

using a "proper grip" .... doesn't.



Several experienced (and some less experienced) have questioned what

type of rounds he was shooting ... the guy in the video calls them

"modest" rounds and, most importantly, *you* don't know what he was

shooting either.



It's ok to be wrong sometimes.







All we have is unquantified guesses, no hard date. Zip, zilch. It's

certainly okay to question what sorts of rounds he was shooting, but

there are no answers.



I will base it on the cast bullets alone. You can NOT push a cast

bullet to ".357" velocities and maintain any sibilance of accuracy

PERIOD.

And he's probably (yeah I'm speculating!) using something like an HP/38 powder, which is mild compared to 110. That is if he's using the full recommended grain.