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??? upgrading shore power to 50A 220V
I've been on 30A 120V power at the dock for years and would now like to upgrade
to 50A 220V, or what they refer to as 50A 250V at the marina office. I haven't put a meter on it yet but so far suspect it's closer to 220 than 250. The socket on the pedestal is like the one pictured he http://www.catagle.com/68-153/CWD_Ar...uyersGuide.htm They say it's 3-pole 4-wire. I'm guessing X and Y are the two hot legs and W is the neutral. Between X or Y and W would be 120V+/- and between X and Y is the 220/250V. Right? How does the ground tie into it though? With only 3 poles do we run a separate wire from the boat to the pedestal, and if so how do we tie in? Also can anyone suggest the cheapest place to get a plug like that? So far the best price I've found is $68.18 he http://www.ktool.net/servlet/the-581...-63CR65/Detail Thank you for any help! David |
??? upgrading shore power to 50A 220V
On 3/17/2014 6:01 PM, david@righthere... wrote:
I've been on 30A 120V power at the dock for years and would now like to upgrade to 50A 220V, or what they refer to as 50A 250V at the marina office. I haven't put a meter on it yet but so far suspect it's closer to 220 than 250. The socket on the pedestal is like the one pictured he http://www.catagle.com/68-153/CWD_Ar...uyersGuide.htm They say it's 3-pole 4-wire. I'm guessing X and Y are the two hot legs and W is the neutral. Between X or Y and W would be 120V+/- and between X and Y is the 220/250V. Right? How does the ground tie into it though? With only 3 poles do we run a separate wire from the boat to the pedestal, and if so how do we tie in? Also can anyone suggest the cheapest place to get a plug like that? So far the best price I've found is $68.18 he http://www.ktool.net/servlet/the-581...-63CR65/Detail Thank you for any help! David The plug is 10-20 bucks at home depot or lowes, Scottys whatever you have. It's a dryer plug basically... As to the wiring, I forget but I have a book I always use when I do the wiring.. It was about 20 bucks at home depot, I have had it for as long as I have owned a house... |
??? upgrading shore power to 50A 220V
On 3/17/2014 6:01 PM, david@righthere... wrote:
I've been on 30A 120V power at the dock for years and would now like to upgrade to 50A 220V, or what they refer to as 50A 250V at the marina office. I haven't put a meter on it yet but so far suspect it's closer to 220 than 250. The socket on the pedestal is like the one pictured he http://www.catagle.com/68-153/CWD_Ar...uyersGuide.htm They say it's 3-pole 4-wire. I'm guessing X and Y are the two hot legs and W is the neutral. Between X or Y and W would be 120V+/- and between X and Y is the 220/250V. Right? How does the ground tie into it though? With only 3 poles do we run a separate wire from the boat to the pedestal, and if so how do we tie in? Also can anyone suggest the cheapest place to get a plug like that? So far the best price I've found is $68.18 he http://www.ktool.net/servlet/the-581...-63CR65/Detail Thank you for any help! David The ground is the outside metal band on the plug. |
??? upgrading shore power to 50A 220V
On 3/17/2014 6:01 PM, david@righthere... wrote:
I've been on 30A 120V power at the dock for years and would now like to upgrade to 50A 220V, or what they refer to as 50A 250V at the marina office. I haven't put a meter on it yet but so far suspect it's closer to 220 than 250. The socket on the pedestal is like the one pictured he http://www.catagle.com/68-153/CWD_Ar...uyersGuide.htm They say it's 3-pole 4-wire. I'm guessing X and Y are the two hot legs and W is the neutral. Between X or Y and W would be 120V+/- and between X and Y is the 220/250V. Right? How does the ground tie into it though? With only 3 poles do we run a separate wire from the boat to the pedestal, and if so how do we tie in? Also can anyone suggest the cheapest place to get a plug like that? So far the best price I've found is $68.18 he http://www.ktool.net/servlet/the-581...-63CR65/Detail Thank you for any help! David My suggestion is to learn more about what you are thinking of doing. If your boat is currently set up for a 30 amp, 120 volt service, there's more to it than just replacing the plug to get 50 amps. The 50 amp services are, as you stated, more like the power service to your house. 240 volts between the hot legs and 120 volts between either of them and neutral. There's 50 amps available for each of the distributed legs or a total of 100 amps. The power panel in a boat designed for a 50 amp service distributes the two 120 volt legs equally to power the boat's electrical system. Any 240 volt items runs off a double pole breaker. Frankly, I've never seen a 240 volt appliance on a recreational use boat. Not saying they don't exist. I've just never seen one. The last boat I had had a 240 volt, 50 amp service. It had a washer and dryer. The dryer ran on 120 volts, not 240. The wiring on your 30 amp service is sized from the inlet jack to the power panel for 30 amps. There should be a 30 amp main breaker in your power panel that would trip if you draw over 30 amps, so there's no benefit. If you replace the main breaker in the power panel with a 50 amp breaker, you run a risk of fire due to overloading the wiring between the power inlet plug and the power panel, so you would need to replace that wiring with a bigger gauge. Some boats have *two* 30 amp services and power panels. That might be an easier way to go if you are trying to add more available amps. |
??? upgrading shore power to 50A 220V
On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 18:01:06 -0400, david@righthere... wrote:
I've been on 30A 120V power at the dock for years and would now like to upgrade to 50A 220V, or what they refer to as 50A 250V at the marina office. I haven't put a meter on it yet but so far suspect it's closer to 220 than 250. The socket on the pedestal is like the one pictured he http://www.catagle.com/68-153/CWD_Ar...uyersGuide.htm They say it's 3-pole 4-wire. I'm guessing X and Y are the two hot legs and W is the neutral. Between X or Y and W would be 120V+/- and between X and Y is the 220/250V. Right? How does the ground tie into it though? With only 3 poles do we run a separate wire from the boat to the pedestal, and if so how do we tie in? Also can anyone suggest the cheapest place to get a plug like that? So far the best price I've found is $68.18 he http://www.ktool.net/servlet/the-581...-63CR65/Detail Thank you for any help! David If you are currently getting 120 V on the 30 amp outlet, you should get 120 V from each hot to neutral on the 50 amp outlet, and 240 volts between the two hot wires. If the dock outlets are supplied three-phase power, you may get 208 volts between the hot wires, but most marinas should provide single phase 120/240 to the dock outlets, although the marina's main supply will be three-phase. -- Peter Bennett, VE7CEI Vancouver BC peterbb (at) telus.net Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca |
??? upgrading shore power to 50A 220V
On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 18:01:06 -0400, david@righthere... wrote:
I've been on 30A 120V power at the dock for years and would now like to upgrade to 50A 220V, or what they refer to as 50A 250V at the marina office. I haven't put a meter on it yet but so far suspect it's closer to 220 than 250. The socket on the pedestal is like the one pictured he http://www.catagle.com/68-153/CWD_Ar...uyersGuide.htm They say it's 3-pole 4-wire. I'm guessing X and Y are the two hot legs and W is the neutral. Between X or Y and W would be 120V+/- and between X and Y is the 220/250V. Right? How does the ground tie into it though? With only 3 poles do we run a separate wire from the boat to the pedestal, and if so how do we tie in? Also can anyone suggest the cheapest place to get a plug like that? So far the best price I've found is $68.18 he http://www.ktool.net/servlet/the-581...-63CR65/Detail Thank you for any help! David === You've gotten some fairly good advice from most sources but let me emphasize that this is not a job to be undertaken by an an amatuer DIY electrician. A 50 amp shore power outlet is capable of delivering about 12 kilowatts of electricity and that is way more than what is needed to start a fire or electrocute someone. The parts are readily available from West Marine or your local electrical distributor but this is not a trivial project. In addition to rewiring your dock, you also need to totally redo your boat's electrical system from the shore power connectors right through to the breaker panel. You will totally void your insurance policy if the job is not done to professional standards. If you'd like to learn more from a reliable source, I'd suggest you start with this book by Nigel Calder: http://www.amazon.com/Boatowners-Mechanical-Electrical-Manual-Essential/dp/0071432388 |
??? upgrading shore power to 50A 220V
On 3/17/2014 7:57 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/17/2014 7:14 PM, wrote: On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 18:19:42 -0400, KC wrote: On 3/17/2014 6:01 PM, david@righthere... wrote: I've been on 30A 120V power at the dock for years and would now like to upgrade to 50A 220V, or what they refer to as 50A 250V at the marina office. I haven't put a meter on it yet but so far suspect it's closer to 220 than 250. The socket on the pedestal is like the one pictured he http://www.catagle.com/68-153/CWD_Ar...uyersGuide.htm They say it's 3-pole 4-wire. I'm guessing X and Y are the two hot legs and W is the neutral. Between X or Y and W would be 120V+/- and between X and Y is the 220/250V. Right? How does the ground tie into it though? With only 3 poles do we run a separate wire from the boat to the pedestal, and if so how do we tie in? Also can anyone suggest the cheapest place to get a plug like that? So far the best price I've found is $68.18 he http://www.ktool.net/servlet/the-581...-63CR65/Detail Thank you for any help! David The plug is 10-20 bucks at home depot or lowes, Scottys whatever you have. It's a dryer plug basically... As to the wiring, I forget but I have a book I always use when I do the wiring.. It was about 20 bucks at home depot, I have had it for as long as I have owned a house... Not true at all, sorry. This is a non-NEMA twist lock 50a plug, that is corrosion resistant. A dryer plug is a NEMA 14-30 straight blade that would go south pretty quickly on a pier. Yup. I think Scotty should stick to building websites and not wiring boats. Why, cause I took a quick look and made a mistake? I have done a lot of wiring in my time including my whole house to code in Essex from moving in with full Knob and Tube... I have done barns, and wells. When you have a 100 year old house you tend to pick up stuff. You should see me sweat a pipe.... even if I don't know all the right terminology. Either way, that's why I always keep my electrical book with me to check my own work as I go.... |
??? upgrading shore power to 50A 220V
On Tue, 18 Mar 2014 00:22:52 -0400, KC wrote:
On 3/17/2014 7:57 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 3/17/2014 7:14 PM, wrote: On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 18:19:42 -0400, KC wrote: On 3/17/2014 6:01 PM, david@righthere... wrote: I've been on 30A 120V power at the dock for years and would now like to upgrade to 50A 220V, or what they refer to as 50A 250V at the marina office. I haven't put a meter on it yet but so far suspect it's closer to 220 than 250. The socket on the pedestal is like the one pictured he http://www.catagle.com/68-153/CWD_Ar...uyersGuide.htm They say it's 3-pole 4-wire. I'm guessing X and Y are the two hot legs and W is the neutral. Between X or Y and W would be 120V+/- and between X and Y is the 220/250V. Right? How does the ground tie into it though? With only 3 poles do we run a separate wire from the boat to the pedestal, and if so how do we tie in? Also can anyone suggest the cheapest place to get a plug like that? So far the best price I've found is $68.18 he http://www.ktool.net/servlet/the-581...-63CR65/Detail Thank you for any help! David The plug is 10-20 bucks at home depot or lowes, Scottys whatever you have. It's a dryer plug basically... As to the wiring, I forget but I have a book I always use when I do the wiring.. It was about 20 bucks at home depot, I have had it for as long as I have owned a house... Not true at all, sorry. This is a non-NEMA twist lock 50a plug, that is corrosion resistant. A dryer plug is a NEMA 14-30 straight blade that would go south pretty quickly on a pier. Yup. I think Scotty should stick to building websites and not wiring boats. Why, cause I took a quick look and made a mistake? I have done a lot of wiring in my time including my whole house to code in Essex from moving in with full Knob and Tube... I have done barns, and wells. When you have a 100 year old house you tend to pick up stuff. You should see me sweat a pipe.... even if I don't know all the right terminology. Either way, that's why I always keep my electrical book with me to check my own work as I go.... === Scott, just my 2 cents worth, but when a guy is asking for advice on a potentially critical/high powered electrical issue, I think it deserves more than a quick look. |
??? upgrading shore power to 50A 220V
On 3/18/2014 12:22 AM, KC wrote:
On 3/17/2014 7:57 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 3/17/2014 7:14 PM, wrote: On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 18:19:42 -0400, KC wrote: On 3/17/2014 6:01 PM, david@righthere... wrote: I've been on 30A 120V power at the dock for years and would now like to upgrade to 50A 220V, or what they refer to as 50A 250V at the marina office. I haven't put a meter on it yet but so far suspect it's closer to 220 than 250. The socket on the pedestal is like the one pictured he http://www.catagle.com/68-153/CWD_Ar...uyersGuide.htm They say it's 3-pole 4-wire. I'm guessing X and Y are the two hot legs and W is the neutral. Between X or Y and W would be 120V+/- and between X and Y is the 220/250V. Right? How does the ground tie into it though? With only 3 poles do we run a separate wire from the boat to the pedestal, and if so how do we tie in? Also can anyone suggest the cheapest place to get a plug like that? So far the best price I've found is $68.18 he http://www.ktool.net/servlet/the-581...-63CR65/Detail Thank you for any help! David The plug is 10-20 bucks at home depot or lowes, Scottys whatever you have. It's a dryer plug basically... As to the wiring, I forget but I have a book I always use when I do the wiring.. It was about 20 bucks at home depot, I have had it for as long as I have owned a house... Not true at all, sorry. This is a non-NEMA twist lock 50a plug, that is corrosion resistant. A dryer plug is a NEMA 14-30 straight blade that would go south pretty quickly on a pier. Yup. I think Scotty should stick to building websites and not wiring boats. Why, cause I took a quick look and made a mistake? I have done a lot of wiring in my time including my whole house to code in Essex from moving in with full Knob and Tube... I have done barns, and wells. When you have a 100 year old house you tend to pick up stuff. You should see me sweat a pipe.... even if I don't know all the right terminology. Either way, that's why I always keep my electrical book with me to check my own work as I go.... Scott, the OP didn't say if he was re-wiring his *boat* for a 50 amp, 240v marine split service. He might be just trying to use one leg of it to supply 50 amps to his existing 30 amp, 120v boat panel. If so, he's taking a big risk because it's not just the plug in question. The primary feed wires in the boat that run from the power inlet to the power panel needs to be changed at a minimum. Plus, if the existing power panel has a 30 amp main, supplying it with 50 amps isn't going to do him any good. If he changes that to a 50 amp breaker without doing any changes to the wiring, he could overheat the primary feed wiring in the boat, causing a fire. My comment was more than pointing out that a split, 50 amp marine service plug is not a dryer plug. I did what I think he is trying to accomplish on the Grand Banks we had. It had a standard, 30 amp, 120v service. I wanted to add two air-conditioning units to the boat. Rather than change everything over to a 50 amp, 240v split service I simply added another 30 amp, 120v marine inlet connector, wiring (marine type) and a small, dedicated breaker box with two 15 amp breakers in it, one for each of the AC units. I don't know a lot about many things and nothing about some things however electrical power distribution and wiring happens to be one thing I *do* know something about. I'd hate to see someone hurt or killed because they received bad input. Now, I have a question for you. Let's say your house has a 200 amp service. Your main breaker is a double pole, 200 amp per pole breaker. There's 240vac between the two "hot" legs and 120vac between either of them and neutral. Each hot leg from the utility pole is sized for 200 amps for each side of the service, yet the neutral is also only sized for 200 amps. Why isn't it sized for 400 amps, the sum of both sides of the total service? See if the answer is in your "electrical" book. |
??? upgrading shore power to 50A 220V
On 3/17/14, 6:19 PM, KC wrote:
On 3/17/2014 6:01 PM, david@righthere... wrote: I've been on 30A 120V power at the dock for years and would now like to upgrade to 50A 220V, or what they refer to as 50A 250V at the marina office. I haven't put a meter on it yet but so far suspect it's closer to 220 than 250. The socket on the pedestal is like the one pictured he http://www.catagle.com/68-153/CWD_Ar...uyersGuide.htm They say it's 3-pole 4-wire. I'm guessing X and Y are the two hot legs and W is the neutral. Between X or Y and W would be 120V+/- and between X and Y is the 220/250V. Right? How does the ground tie into it though? With only 3 poles do we run a separate wire from the boat to the pedestal, and if so how do we tie in? Also can anyone suggest the cheapest place to get a plug like that? So far the best price I've found is $68.18 he http://www.ktool.net/servlet/the-581...-63CR65/Detail Thank you for any help! David The plug is 10-20 bucks at home depot or lowes, Scottys whatever you have. It's a dryer plug basically... As to the wiring, I forget but I have a book I always use when I do the wiring.. It was about 20 bucks at home depot, I have had it for as long as I have owned a house... Yikes! It's NOT a dryer plug, basically or otherwise. :) |
??? upgrading shore power to 50A 220V
On 3/18/2014 6:26 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 3/17/14, 6:19 PM, KC wrote: On 3/17/2014 6:01 PM, david@righthere... wrote: I've been on 30A 120V power at the dock for years and would now like to upgrade to 50A 220V, or what they refer to as 50A 250V at the marina office. I haven't put a meter on it yet but so far suspect it's closer to 220 than 250. The socket on the pedestal is like the one pictured he http://www.catagle.com/68-153/CWD_Ar...uyersGuide.htm They say it's 3-pole 4-wire. I'm guessing X and Y are the two hot legs and W is the neutral. Between X or Y and W would be 120V+/- and between X and Y is the 220/250V. Right? How does the ground tie into it though? With only 3 poles do we run a separate wire from the boat to the pedestal, and if so how do we tie in? Also can anyone suggest the cheapest place to get a plug like that? So far the best price I've found is $68.18 he http://www.ktool.net/servlet/the-581...-63CR65/Detail Thank you for any help! David The plug is 10-20 bucks at home depot or lowes, Scottys whatever you have. It's a dryer plug basically... As to the wiring, I forget but I have a book I always use when I do the wiring.. It was about 20 bucks at home depot, I have had it for as long as I have owned a house... Yikes! It's NOT a dryer plug, basically or otherwise. :) Not to knock Scotty but I got a big kick out of his statement, "As to the wiring, I forget but I have a book I always use when I do the wiring". I think Scott should limit his wiring to 12 volt devices. Whoops. I take that back. My oldest grandson recently got his first car and (like all teenagers) was installing a sound system that included a massive bass speaker cabinet and a dedicated, 1200 watt amplifier to drive it. He was wiring the power to the amp with some small gauge "hook up" wire that he bought. I explained to him that he only had 12 volts +/- available and if the amp was capable of 1200 watts, he could be drawing close to 100 peak amps at times and his little hookup wire was going to act like a fuse. Got him some appropriately sized wire. |
??? upgrading shore power to 50A 220V
On 3/18/2014 12:40 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 18 Mar 2014 00:22:52 -0400, KC wrote: On 3/17/2014 7:57 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 3/17/2014 7:14 PM, wrote: On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 18:19:42 -0400, KC wrote: On 3/17/2014 6:01 PM, david@righthere... wrote: I've been on 30A 120V power at the dock for years and would now like to upgrade to 50A 220V, or what they refer to as 50A 250V at the marina office. I haven't put a meter on it yet but so far suspect it's closer to 220 than 250. The socket on the pedestal is like the one pictured he http://www.catagle.com/68-153/CWD_Ar...uyersGuide.htm They say it's 3-pole 4-wire. I'm guessing X and Y are the two hot legs and W is the neutral. Between X or Y and W would be 120V+/- and between X and Y is the 220/250V. Right? How does the ground tie into it though? With only 3 poles do we run a separate wire from the boat to the pedestal, and if so how do we tie in? Also can anyone suggest the cheapest place to get a plug like that? So far the best price I've found is $68.18 he http://www.ktool.net/servlet/the-581...-63CR65/Detail Thank you for any help! David The plug is 10-20 bucks at home depot or lowes, Scottys whatever you have. It's a dryer plug basically... As to the wiring, I forget but I have a book I always use when I do the wiring.. It was about 20 bucks at home depot, I have had it for as long as I have owned a house... Not true at all, sorry. This is a non-NEMA twist lock 50a plug, that is corrosion resistant. A dryer plug is a NEMA 14-30 straight blade that would go south pretty quickly on a pier. Yup. I think Scotty should stick to building websites and not wiring boats. Why, cause I took a quick look and made a mistake? I have done a lot of wiring in my time including my whole house to code in Essex from moving in with full Knob and Tube... I have done barns, and wells. When you have a 100 year old house you tend to pick up stuff. You should see me sweat a pipe.... even if I don't know all the right terminology. Either way, that's why I always keep my electrical book with me to check my own work as I go.... === Scott, just my 2 cents worth, but when a guy is asking for advice on a potentially critical/high powered electrical issue, I think it deserves more than a quick look. Yup... probably right.. |
??? upgrading shore power to 50A 220V
On 3/18/14, 7:05 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/18/2014 6:26 AM, F*O*A*D wrote: On 3/17/14, 6:19 PM, KC wrote: On 3/17/2014 6:01 PM, david@righthere... wrote: I've been on 30A 120V power at the dock for years and would now like to upgrade to 50A 220V, or what they refer to as 50A 250V at the marina office. I haven't put a meter on it yet but so far suspect it's closer to 220 than 250. The socket on the pedestal is like the one pictured he http://www.catagle.com/68-153/CWD_Ar...uyersGuide.htm They say it's 3-pole 4-wire. I'm guessing X and Y are the two hot legs and W is the neutral. Between X or Y and W would be 120V+/- and between X and Y is the 220/250V. Right? How does the ground tie into it though? With only 3 poles do we run a separate wire from the boat to the pedestal, and if so how do we tie in? Also can anyone suggest the cheapest place to get a plug like that? So far the best price I've found is $68.18 he http://www.ktool.net/servlet/the-581...-63CR65/Detail Thank you for any help! David The plug is 10-20 bucks at home depot or lowes, Scottys whatever you have. It's a dryer plug basically... As to the wiring, I forget but I have a book I always use when I do the wiring.. It was about 20 bucks at home depot, I have had it for as long as I have owned a house... Yikes! It's NOT a dryer plug, basically or otherwise. :) Not to knock Scotty but I got a big kick out of his statement, "As to the wiring, I forget but I have a book I always use when I do the wiring". I think Scott should limit his wiring to 12 volt devices. Whoops. I take that back. My oldest grandson recently got his first car and (like all teenagers) was installing a sound system that included a massive bass speaker cabinet and a dedicated, 1200 watt amplifier to drive it. He was wiring the power to the amp with some small gauge "hook up" wire that he bought. I explained to him that he only had 12 volts +/- available and if the amp was capable of 1200 watts, he could be drawing close to 100 peak amps at times and his little hookup wire was going to act like a fuse. Got him some appropriately sized wire. I'm not a fan of taking unnecessary physical, fire or explosion risks, so I don't do wiring any more difficult than replacing a switch or a light fixture. We haven't really had any serious electrical issues here. The wiring for our generator was handled by the contractor's licensed electricians. |
??? upgrading shore power to 50A 220V
On 3/18/2014 3:34 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/18/2014 12:22 AM, KC wrote: On 3/17/2014 7:57 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 3/17/2014 7:14 PM, wrote: On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 18:19:42 -0400, KC wrote: On 3/17/2014 6:01 PM, david@righthere... wrote: I've been on 30A 120V power at the dock for years and would now like to upgrade to 50A 220V, or what they refer to as 50A 250V at the marina office. I haven't put a meter on it yet but so far suspect it's closer to 220 than 250. The socket on the pedestal is like the one pictured he http://www.catagle.com/68-153/CWD_Ar...uyersGuide.htm They say it's 3-pole 4-wire. I'm guessing X and Y are the two hot legs and W is the neutral. Between X or Y and W would be 120V+/- and between X and Y is the 220/250V. Right? How does the ground tie into it though? With only 3 poles do we run a separate wire from the boat to the pedestal, and if so how do we tie in? Also can anyone suggest the cheapest place to get a plug like that? So far the best price I've found is $68.18 he http://www.ktool.net/servlet/the-581...-63CR65/Detail Thank you for any help! David The plug is 10-20 bucks at home depot or lowes, Scottys whatever you have. It's a dryer plug basically... As to the wiring, I forget but I have a book I always use when I do the wiring.. It was about 20 bucks at home depot, I have had it for as long as I have owned a house... Not true at all, sorry. This is a non-NEMA twist lock 50a plug, that is corrosion resistant. A dryer plug is a NEMA 14-30 straight blade that would go south pretty quickly on a pier. Yup. I think Scotty should stick to building websites and not wiring boats. Why, cause I took a quick look and made a mistake? I have done a lot of wiring in my time including my whole house to code in Essex from moving in with full Knob and Tube... I have done barns, and wells. When you have a 100 year old house you tend to pick up stuff. You should see me sweat a pipe.... even if I don't know all the right terminology. Either way, that's why I always keep my electrical book with me to check my own work as I go.... Scott, the OP didn't say if he was re-wiring his *boat* for a 50 amp, 240v marine split service. He might be just trying to use one leg of it to supply 50 amps to his existing 30 amp, 120v boat panel. If so, he's taking a big risk because it's not just the plug in question. The primary feed wires in the boat that run from the power inlet to the power panel needs to be changed at a minimum. Plus, if the existing power panel has a 30 amp main, supplying it with 50 amps isn't going to do him any good. If he changes that to a 50 amp breaker without doing any changes to the wiring, he could overheat the primary feed wiring in the boat, causing a fire. My comment was more than pointing out that a split, 50 amp marine service plug is not a dryer plug. I did what I think he is trying to accomplish on the Grand Banks we had. It had a standard, 30 amp, 120v service. I wanted to add two air-conditioning units to the boat. Rather than change everything over to a 50 amp, 240v split service I simply added another 30 amp, 120v marine inlet connector, wiring (marine type) and a small, dedicated breaker box with two 15 amp breakers in it, one for each of the AC units. I don't know a lot about many things and nothing about some things however electrical power distribution and wiring happens to be one thing I *do* know something about. I'd hate to see someone hurt or killed because they received bad input. Now, I have a question for you. Let's say your house has a 200 amp service. Your main breaker is a double pole, 200 amp per pole breaker. There's 240vac between the two "hot" legs and 120vac between either of them and neutral. Each hot leg from the utility pole is sized for 200 amps for each side of the service, yet the neutral is also only sized for 200 amps. Why isn't it sized for 400 amps, the sum of both sides of the total service? See if the answer is in your "electrical" book. Is this a job you are gonna' do yourself? snerk |
??? upgrading shore power to 50A 220V
On 3/18/2014 7:05 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/18/2014 6:26 AM, F*O*A*D wrote: On 3/17/14, 6:19 PM, KC wrote: On 3/17/2014 6:01 PM, david@righthere... wrote: I've been on 30A 120V power at the dock for years and would now like to upgrade to 50A 220V, or what they refer to as 50A 250V at the marina office. I haven't put a meter on it yet but so far suspect it's closer to 220 than 250. The socket on the pedestal is like the one pictured he http://www.catagle.com/68-153/CWD_Ar...uyersGuide.htm They say it's 3-pole 4-wire. I'm guessing X and Y are the two hot legs and W is the neutral. Between X or Y and W would be 120V+/- and between X and Y is the 220/250V. Right? How does the ground tie into it though? With only 3 poles do we run a separate wire from the boat to the pedestal, and if so how do we tie in? Also can anyone suggest the cheapest place to get a plug like that? So far the best price I've found is $68.18 he http://www.ktool.net/servlet/the-581...-63CR65/Detail Thank you for any help! David The plug is 10-20 bucks at home depot or lowes, Scottys whatever you have. It's a dryer plug basically... As to the wiring, I forget but I have a book I always use when I do the wiring.. It was about 20 bucks at home depot, I have had it for as long as I have owned a house... Yikes! It's NOT a dryer plug, basically or otherwise. :) Not to knock Scotty but I got a big kick out of his statement, "As to the wiring, I forget but I have a book I always use when I do the wiring". I think Scott should limit his wiring to 12 volt devices. Whoops. I take that back. My oldest grandson recently got his first car and (like all teenagers) was installing a sound system that included a massive bass speaker cabinet and a dedicated, 1200 watt amplifier to drive it. He was wiring the power to the amp with some small gauge "hook up" wire that he bought. I explained to him that he only had 12 volts +/- available and if the amp was capable of 1200 watts, he could be drawing close to 100 peak amps at times and his little hookup wire was going to act like a fuse. Got him some appropriately sized wire. Wow, such a hero, you da man that's for sure..... Do you feel better about yourself now? Y |
??? upgrading shore power to 50A 220V
On 3/18/14, 7:44 AM, KC wrote:
On 3/18/2014 7:05 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 3/18/2014 6:26 AM, F*O*A*D wrote: On 3/17/14, 6:19 PM, KC wrote: On 3/17/2014 6:01 PM, david@righthere... wrote: I've been on 30A 120V power at the dock for years and would now like to upgrade to 50A 220V, or what they refer to as 50A 250V at the marina office. I haven't put a meter on it yet but so far suspect it's closer to 220 than 250. The socket on the pedestal is like the one pictured he http://www.catagle.com/68-153/CWD_Ar...uyersGuide.htm They say it's 3-pole 4-wire. I'm guessing X and Y are the two hot legs and W is the neutral. Between X or Y and W would be 120V+/- and between X and Y is the 220/250V. Right? How does the ground tie into it though? With only 3 poles do we run a separate wire from the boat to the pedestal, and if so how do we tie in? Also can anyone suggest the cheapest place to get a plug like that? So far the best price I've found is $68.18 he http://www.ktool.net/servlet/the-581...-63CR65/Detail Thank you for any help! David The plug is 10-20 bucks at home depot or lowes, Scottys whatever you have. It's a dryer plug basically... As to the wiring, I forget but I have a book I always use when I do the wiring.. It was about 20 bucks at home depot, I have had it for as long as I have owned a house... Yikes! It's NOT a dryer plug, basically or otherwise. :) Not to knock Scotty but I got a big kick out of his statement, "As to the wiring, I forget but I have a book I always use when I do the wiring". I think Scott should limit his wiring to 12 volt devices. Whoops. I take that back. My oldest grandson recently got his first car and (like all teenagers) was installing a sound system that included a massive bass speaker cabinet and a dedicated, 1200 watt amplifier to drive it. He was wiring the power to the amp with some small gauge "hook up" wire that he bought. I explained to him that he only had 12 volts +/- available and if the amp was capable of 1200 watts, he could be drawing close to 100 peak amps at times and his little hookup wire was going to act like a fuse. Got him some appropriately sized wire. Wow, such a hero, you da man that's for sure..... Do you feel better about yourself now? Y Do you feel a tingle? |
??? upgrading shore power to 50A 220V
On 3/18/2014 7:42 AM, KC wrote:
On 3/18/2014 3:34 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 3/18/2014 12:22 AM, KC wrote: On 3/17/2014 7:57 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 3/17/2014 7:14 PM, wrote: On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 18:19:42 -0400, KC wrote: On 3/17/2014 6:01 PM, david@righthere... wrote: I've been on 30A 120V power at the dock for years and would now like to upgrade to 50A 220V, or what they refer to as 50A 250V at the marina office. I haven't put a meter on it yet but so far suspect it's closer to 220 than 250. The socket on the pedestal is like the one pictured he http://www.catagle.com/68-153/CWD_Ar...uyersGuide.htm They say it's 3-pole 4-wire. I'm guessing X and Y are the two hot legs and W is the neutral. Between X or Y and W would be 120V+/- and between X and Y is the 220/250V. Right? How does the ground tie into it though? With only 3 poles do we run a separate wire from the boat to the pedestal, and if so how do we tie in? Also can anyone suggest the cheapest place to get a plug like that? So far the best price I've found is $68.18 he http://www.ktool.net/servlet/the-581...-63CR65/Detail Thank you for any help! David The plug is 10-20 bucks at home depot or lowes, Scottys whatever you have. It's a dryer plug basically... As to the wiring, I forget but I have a book I always use when I do the wiring.. It was about 20 bucks at home depot, I have had it for as long as I have owned a house... Not true at all, sorry. This is a non-NEMA twist lock 50a plug, that is corrosion resistant. A dryer plug is a NEMA 14-30 straight blade that would go south pretty quickly on a pier. Yup. I think Scotty should stick to building websites and not wiring boats. Why, cause I took a quick look and made a mistake? I have done a lot of wiring in my time including my whole house to code in Essex from moving in with full Knob and Tube... I have done barns, and wells. When you have a 100 year old house you tend to pick up stuff. You should see me sweat a pipe.... even if I don't know all the right terminology. Either way, that's why I always keep my electrical book with me to check my own work as I go.... Scott, the OP didn't say if he was re-wiring his *boat* for a 50 amp, 240v marine split service. He might be just trying to use one leg of it to supply 50 amps to his existing 30 amp, 120v boat panel. If so, he's taking a big risk because it's not just the plug in question. The primary feed wires in the boat that run from the power inlet to the power panel needs to be changed at a minimum. Plus, if the existing power panel has a 30 amp main, supplying it with 50 amps isn't going to do him any good. If he changes that to a 50 amp breaker without doing any changes to the wiring, he could overheat the primary feed wiring in the boat, causing a fire. My comment was more than pointing out that a split, 50 amp marine service plug is not a dryer plug. I did what I think he is trying to accomplish on the Grand Banks we had. It had a standard, 30 amp, 120v service. I wanted to add two air-conditioning units to the boat. Rather than change everything over to a 50 amp, 240v split service I simply added another 30 amp, 120v marine inlet connector, wiring (marine type) and a small, dedicated breaker box with two 15 amp breakers in it, one for each of the AC units. I don't know a lot about many things and nothing about some things however electrical power distribution and wiring happens to be one thing I *do* know something about. I'd hate to see someone hurt or killed because they received bad input. Now, I have a question for you. Let's say your house has a 200 amp service. Your main breaker is a double pole, 200 amp per pole breaker. There's 240vac between the two "hot" legs and 120vac between either of them and neutral. Each hot leg from the utility pole is sized for 200 amps for each side of the service, yet the neutral is also only sized for 200 amps. Why isn't it sized for 400 amps, the sum of both sides of the total service? See if the answer is in your "electrical" book. Is this a job you are gonna' do yourself? snerk No, it's not a job. It's a question. Can you answer it with all your experience wiring homes, barns and whatever? Look, any handyman can do basic wiring in their house. It's not rocket science. But knowing something about current capacities, codes and particularly how the power in a house, commercial building or a *boat* is distributed requires more than a handy dandy DIY book from the Home Depot. I am not an electrician. I am an electrical engineer. If I wanted a new power service installed in my house or was doing a major upgrade to the existing service, I'd hire a licensed, master electrician to do the job. BTW, the answer to the question I asked is because the two "hot" legs are 180 degrees out of phase relative to each other, so the net current flowing through the neutral leg adds algebraically. The current through the neutral leg can never exceed 200 amperes. |
??? upgrading shore power to 50A 220V
On 3/18/2014 7:44 AM, KC wrote:
On 3/18/2014 7:05 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 3/18/2014 6:26 AM, F*O*A*D wrote: On 3/17/14, 6:19 PM, KC wrote: On 3/17/2014 6:01 PM, david@righthere... wrote: I've been on 30A 120V power at the dock for years and would now like to upgrade to 50A 220V, or what they refer to as 50A 250V at the marina office. I haven't put a meter on it yet but so far suspect it's closer to 220 than 250. The socket on the pedestal is like the one pictured he http://www.catagle.com/68-153/CWD_Ar...uyersGuide.htm They say it's 3-pole 4-wire. I'm guessing X and Y are the two hot legs and W is the neutral. Between X or Y and W would be 120V+/- and between X and Y is the 220/250V. Right? How does the ground tie into it though? With only 3 poles do we run a separate wire from the boat to the pedestal, and if so how do we tie in? Also can anyone suggest the cheapest place to get a plug like that? So far the best price I've found is $68.18 he http://www.ktool.net/servlet/the-581...-63CR65/Detail Thank you for any help! David The plug is 10-20 bucks at home depot or lowes, Scottys whatever you have. It's a dryer plug basically... As to the wiring, I forget but I have a book I always use when I do the wiring.. It was about 20 bucks at home depot, I have had it for as long as I have owned a house... Yikes! It's NOT a dryer plug, basically or otherwise. :) Not to knock Scotty but I got a big kick out of his statement, "As to the wiring, I forget but I have a book I always use when I do the wiring". I think Scott should limit his wiring to 12 volt devices. Whoops. I take that back. My oldest grandson recently got his first car and (like all teenagers) was installing a sound system that included a massive bass speaker cabinet and a dedicated, 1200 watt amplifier to drive it. He was wiring the power to the amp with some small gauge "hook up" wire that he bought. I explained to him that he only had 12 volts +/- available and if the amp was capable of 1200 watts, he could be drawing close to 100 peak amps at times and his little hookup wire was going to act like a fuse. Got him some appropriately sized wire. Wow, such a hero, you da man that's for sure..... Do you feel better about yourself now? Y I hopefully feel better for the original poster who asked the question. People like you who shoot your mouth off about things you know nothing about can be dangerous to one's health and safety. |
??? upgrading shore power to 50A 220V
On 3/18/14, 8:01 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/18/2014 7:42 AM, KC wrote: On 3/18/2014 3:34 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 3/18/2014 12:22 AM, KC wrote: On 3/17/2014 7:57 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 3/17/2014 7:14 PM, wrote: On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 18:19:42 -0400, KC wrote: On 3/17/2014 6:01 PM, david@righthere... wrote: I've been on 30A 120V power at the dock for years and would now like to upgrade to 50A 220V, or what they refer to as 50A 250V at the marina office. I haven't put a meter on it yet but so far suspect it's closer to 220 than 250. The socket on the pedestal is like the one pictured he http://www.catagle.com/68-153/CWD_Ar...uyersGuide.htm They say it's 3-pole 4-wire. I'm guessing X and Y are the two hot legs and W is the neutral. Between X or Y and W would be 120V+/- and between X and Y is the 220/250V. Right? How does the ground tie into it though? With only 3 poles do we run a separate wire from the boat to the pedestal, and if so how do we tie in? Also can anyone suggest the cheapest place to get a plug like that? So far the best price I've found is $68.18 he http://www.ktool.net/servlet/the-581...-63CR65/Detail Thank you for any help! David The plug is 10-20 bucks at home depot or lowes, Scottys whatever you have. It's a dryer plug basically... As to the wiring, I forget but I have a book I always use when I do the wiring.. It was about 20 bucks at home depot, I have had it for as long as I have owned a house... Not true at all, sorry. This is a non-NEMA twist lock 50a plug, that is corrosion resistant. A dryer plug is a NEMA 14-30 straight blade that would go south pretty quickly on a pier. Yup. I think Scotty should stick to building websites and not wiring boats. Why, cause I took a quick look and made a mistake? I have done a lot of wiring in my time including my whole house to code in Essex from moving in with full Knob and Tube... I have done barns, and wells. When you have a 100 year old house you tend to pick up stuff. You should see me sweat a pipe.... even if I don't know all the right terminology. Either way, that's why I always keep my electrical book with me to check my own work as I go.... Scott, the OP didn't say if he was re-wiring his *boat* for a 50 amp, 240v marine split service. He might be just trying to use one leg of it to supply 50 amps to his existing 30 amp, 120v boat panel. If so, he's taking a big risk because it's not just the plug in question. The primary feed wires in the boat that run from the power inlet to the power panel needs to be changed at a minimum. Plus, if the existing power panel has a 30 amp main, supplying it with 50 amps isn't going to do him any good. If he changes that to a 50 amp breaker without doing any changes to the wiring, he could overheat the primary feed wiring in the boat, causing a fire. My comment was more than pointing out that a split, 50 amp marine service plug is not a dryer plug. I did what I think he is trying to accomplish on the Grand Banks we had. It had a standard, 30 amp, 120v service. I wanted to add two air-conditioning units to the boat. Rather than change everything over to a 50 amp, 240v split service I simply added another 30 amp, 120v marine inlet connector, wiring (marine type) and a small, dedicated breaker box with two 15 amp breakers in it, one for each of the AC units. I don't know a lot about many things and nothing about some things however electrical power distribution and wiring happens to be one thing I *do* know something about. I'd hate to see someone hurt or killed because they received bad input. Now, I have a question for you. Let's say your house has a 200 amp service. Your main breaker is a double pole, 200 amp per pole breaker. There's 240vac between the two "hot" legs and 120vac between either of them and neutral. Each hot leg from the utility pole is sized for 200 amps for each side of the service, yet the neutral is also only sized for 200 amps. Why isn't it sized for 400 amps, the sum of both sides of the total service? See if the answer is in your "electrical" book. Is this a job you are gonna' do yourself? snerk No, it's not a job. It's a question. Can you answer it with all your experience wiring homes, barns and whatever? Look, any handyman can do basic wiring in their house. It's not rocket science. But knowing something about current capacities, codes and particularly how the power in a house, commercial building or a *boat* is distributed requires more than a handy dandy DIY book from the Home Depot. I am not an electrician. I am an electrical engineer. If I wanted a new power service installed in my house or was doing a major upgrade to the existing service, I'd hire a licensed, master electrician to do the job. BTW, the answer to the question I asked is because the two "hot" legs are 180 degrees out of phase relative to each other, so the net current flowing through the neutral leg adds algebraically. The current through the neutral leg can never exceed 200 amperes. Algebra! Holy smoked salmon! :) |
??? upgrading shore power to 50A 220V
|
??? upgrading shore power to 50A 220V
On 3/18/2014 8:09 AM, Boating All Out wrote:
In article , says... I hopefully feel better for the original poster who asked the question. People like you who shoot your mouth off about things you know nothing about can be dangerous to one's health and safety. He admitted To Wayne he gave a wrong answer, and shouldn't have. No need to keep insulting him. You are right of course. I was responding more to his snarky comment, "Wow, such a hero, you da man that's for sure..... Do you feel better about yourself now?" and his "snerks". Got sucked in again. I made the point to Scott that the OP's question involved more than what kind of plug is used. |
??? upgrading shore power to 50A 220V
On 3/18/2014 8:05 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 3/18/14, 8:01 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 3/18/2014 7:42 AM, KC wrote: On 3/18/2014 3:34 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 3/18/2014 12:22 AM, KC wrote: On 3/17/2014 7:57 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 3/17/2014 7:14 PM, wrote: On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 18:19:42 -0400, KC wrote: On 3/17/2014 6:01 PM, david@righthere... wrote: I've been on 30A 120V power at the dock for years and would now like to upgrade to 50A 220V, or what they refer to as 50A 250V at the marina office. I haven't put a meter on it yet but so far suspect it's closer to 220 than 250. The socket on the pedestal is like the one pictured he http://www.catagle.com/68-153/CWD_Ar...uyersGuide.htm They say it's 3-pole 4-wire. I'm guessing X and Y are the two hot legs and W is the neutral. Between X or Y and W would be 120V+/- and between X and Y is the 220/250V. Right? How does the ground tie into it though? With only 3 poles do we run a separate wire from the boat to the pedestal, and if so how do we tie in? Also can anyone suggest the cheapest place to get a plug like that? So far the best price I've found is $68.18 he http://www.ktool.net/servlet/the-581...-63CR65/Detail Thank you for any help! David The plug is 10-20 bucks at home depot or lowes, Scottys whatever you have. It's a dryer plug basically... As to the wiring, I forget but I have a book I always use when I do the wiring.. It was about 20 bucks at home depot, I have had it for as long as I have owned a house... Not true at all, sorry. This is a non-NEMA twist lock 50a plug, that is corrosion resistant. A dryer plug is a NEMA 14-30 straight blade that would go south pretty quickly on a pier. Yup. I think Scotty should stick to building websites and not wiring boats. Why, cause I took a quick look and made a mistake? I have done a lot of wiring in my time including my whole house to code in Essex from moving in with full Knob and Tube... I have done barns, and wells. When you have a 100 year old house you tend to pick up stuff. You should see me sweat a pipe.... even if I don't know all the right terminology. Either way, that's why I always keep my electrical book with me to check my own work as I go.... Scott, the OP didn't say if he was re-wiring his *boat* for a 50 amp, 240v marine split service. He might be just trying to use one leg of it to supply 50 amps to his existing 30 amp, 120v boat panel. If so, he's taking a big risk because it's not just the plug in question. The primary feed wires in the boat that run from the power inlet to the power panel needs to be changed at a minimum. Plus, if the existing power panel has a 30 amp main, supplying it with 50 amps isn't going to do him any good. If he changes that to a 50 amp breaker without doing any changes to the wiring, he could overheat the primary feed wiring in the boat, causing a fire. My comment was more than pointing out that a split, 50 amp marine service plug is not a dryer plug. I did what I think he is trying to accomplish on the Grand Banks we had. It had a standard, 30 amp, 120v service. I wanted to add two air-conditioning units to the boat. Rather than change everything over to a 50 amp, 240v split service I simply added another 30 amp, 120v marine inlet connector, wiring (marine type) and a small, dedicated breaker box with two 15 amp breakers in it, one for each of the AC units. I don't know a lot about many things and nothing about some things however electrical power distribution and wiring happens to be one thing I *do* know something about. I'd hate to see someone hurt or killed because they received bad input. Now, I have a question for you. Let's say your house has a 200 amp service. Your main breaker is a double pole, 200 amp per pole breaker. There's 240vac between the two "hot" legs and 120vac between either of them and neutral. Each hot leg from the utility pole is sized for 200 amps for each side of the service, yet the neutral is also only sized for 200 amps. Why isn't it sized for 400 amps, the sum of both sides of the total service? See if the answer is in your "electrical" book. Is this a job you are gonna' do yourself? snerk No, it's not a job. It's a question. Can you answer it with all your experience wiring homes, barns and whatever? Look, any handyman can do basic wiring in their house. It's not rocket science. But knowing something about current capacities, codes and particularly how the power in a house, commercial building or a *boat* is distributed requires more than a handy dandy DIY book from the Home Depot. I am not an electrician. I am an electrical engineer. If I wanted a new power service installed in my house or was doing a major upgrade to the existing service, I'd hire a licensed, master electrician to do the job. BTW, the answer to the question I asked is because the two "hot" legs are 180 degrees out of phase relative to each other, so the net current flowing through the neutral leg adds algebraically. The current through the neutral leg can never exceed 200 amperes. Algebra! Holy smoked salmon! :) and heavy duty algebra at that. |
??? upgrading shore power to 50A 220V
On 3/18/2014 8:09 AM, Boating All Out wrote:
In article , says... I hopefully feel better for the original poster who asked the question. People like you who shoot your mouth off about things you know nothing about can be dangerous to one's health and safety. He admitted To Wayne he gave a wrong answer, and shouldn't have. No need to keep insulting him. Some folks come here for their victories.. Dick needs to know it all, thus his calling bs on me for saying I use filters then suggesting I go through third parties.. Huh?? Anyway, I am learning as much about growing older here from him, as I am from harry.... |
??? upgrading shore power to 50A 220V
On 3/18/2014 8:09 AM, Boating All Out wrote:
In article , says... I hopefully feel better for the original poster who asked the question. People like you who shoot your mouth off about things you know nothing about can be dangerous to one's health and safety. He admitted To Wayne he gave a wrong answer, and shouldn't have. No need to keep insulting him. Yes, yes he does *need* to keep insulting... |
??? upgrading shore power to 50A 220V
On 3/18/2014 8:16 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/18/2014 8:09 AM, Boating All Out wrote: In article , says... I hopefully feel better for the original poster who asked the question. People like you who shoot your mouth off about things you know nothing about can be dangerous to one's health and safety. He admitted To Wayne he gave a wrong answer, and shouldn't have. No need to keep insulting him. You are right of course. I was responding more to his snarky comment, "Wow, such a hero, you da man that's for sure..... Do you feel better about yourself now?" and his "snerks". Got sucked in again. I made the point to Scott that the OP's question involved more than what kind of plug is used. Oh brother.... you get sucked in a lot. At least you are fair and balanced in getting sucked in about as many times as you suck in... |
??? upgrading shore power to 50A 220V
On 3/18/14, 8:18 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/18/2014 8:05 AM, F*O*A*D wrote: On 3/18/14, 8:01 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 3/18/2014 7:42 AM, KC wrote: On 3/18/2014 3:34 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 3/18/2014 12:22 AM, KC wrote: On 3/17/2014 7:57 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 3/17/2014 7:14 PM, wrote: On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 18:19:42 -0400, KC wrote: On 3/17/2014 6:01 PM, david@righthere... wrote: I've been on 30A 120V power at the dock for years and would now like to upgrade to 50A 220V, or what they refer to as 50A 250V at the marina office. I haven't put a meter on it yet but so far suspect it's closer to 220 than 250. The socket on the pedestal is like the one pictured he http://www.catagle.com/68-153/CWD_Ar...uyersGuide.htm They say it's 3-pole 4-wire. I'm guessing X and Y are the two hot legs and W is the neutral. Between X or Y and W would be 120V+/- and between X and Y is the 220/250V. Right? How does the ground tie into it though? With only 3 poles do we run a separate wire from the boat to the pedestal, and if so how do we tie in? Also can anyone suggest the cheapest place to get a plug like that? So far the best price I've found is $68.18 he http://www.ktool.net/servlet/the-581...-63CR65/Detail Thank you for any help! David The plug is 10-20 bucks at home depot or lowes, Scottys whatever you have. It's a dryer plug basically... As to the wiring, I forget but I have a book I always use when I do the wiring.. It was about 20 bucks at home depot, I have had it for as long as I have owned a house... Not true at all, sorry. This is a non-NEMA twist lock 50a plug, that is corrosion resistant. A dryer plug is a NEMA 14-30 straight blade that would go south pretty quickly on a pier. Yup. I think Scotty should stick to building websites and not wiring boats. Why, cause I took a quick look and made a mistake? I have done a lot of wiring in my time including my whole house to code in Essex from moving in with full Knob and Tube... I have done barns, and wells. When you have a 100 year old house you tend to pick up stuff. You should see me sweat a pipe.... even if I don't know all the right terminology. Either way, that's why I always keep my electrical book with me to check my own work as I go.... Scott, the OP didn't say if he was re-wiring his *boat* for a 50 amp, 240v marine split service. He might be just trying to use one leg of it to supply 50 amps to his existing 30 amp, 120v boat panel. If so, he's taking a big risk because it's not just the plug in question. The primary feed wires in the boat that run from the power inlet to the power panel needs to be changed at a minimum. Plus, if the existing power panel has a 30 amp main, supplying it with 50 amps isn't going to do him any good. If he changes that to a 50 amp breaker without doing any changes to the wiring, he could overheat the primary feed wiring in the boat, causing a fire. My comment was more than pointing out that a split, 50 amp marine service plug is not a dryer plug. I did what I think he is trying to accomplish on the Grand Banks we had. It had a standard, 30 amp, 120v service. I wanted to add two air-conditioning units to the boat. Rather than change everything over to a 50 amp, 240v split service I simply added another 30 amp, 120v marine inlet connector, wiring (marine type) and a small, dedicated breaker box with two 15 amp breakers in it, one for each of the AC units. I don't know a lot about many things and nothing about some things however electrical power distribution and wiring happens to be one thing I *do* know something about. I'd hate to see someone hurt or killed because they received bad input. Now, I have a question for you. Let's say your house has a 200 amp service. Your main breaker is a double pole, 200 amp per pole breaker. There's 240vac between the two "hot" legs and 120vac between either of them and neutral. Each hot leg from the utility pole is sized for 200 amps for each side of the service, yet the neutral is also only sized for 200 amps. Why isn't it sized for 400 amps, the sum of both sides of the total service? See if the answer is in your "electrical" book. Is this a job you are gonna' do yourself? snerk No, it's not a job. It's a question. Can you answer it with all your experience wiring homes, barns and whatever? Look, any handyman can do basic wiring in their house. It's not rocket science. But knowing something about current capacities, codes and particularly how the power in a house, commercial building or a *boat* is distributed requires more than a handy dandy DIY book from the Home Depot. I am not an electrician. I am an electrical engineer. If I wanted a new power service installed in my house or was doing a major upgrade to the existing service, I'd hire a licensed, master electrician to do the job. BTW, the answer to the question I asked is because the two "hot" legs are 180 degrees out of phase relative to each other, so the net current flowing through the neutral leg adds algebraically. The current through the neutral leg can never exceed 200 amperes. Algebra! Holy smoked salmon! :) and heavy duty algebra at that. I hated first year algebra at Hillhouse, but I liked second year algebra and geometry and calc. Geometry was always my favorite math/science class there, but for physics. Didn't like chemistry much, either. I think the qualities of the various teachers had a lot to do with it. :) |
??? upgrading shore power to 50A 220V
On 3/18/2014 8:24 AM, KC wrote:
On 3/18/2014 8:09 AM, Boating All Out wrote: In article , says... I hopefully feel better for the original poster who asked the question. People like you who shoot your mouth off about things you know nothing about can be dangerous to one's health and safety. He admitted To Wayne he gave a wrong answer, and shouldn't have. No need to keep insulting him. Some folks come here for their victories.. Dick needs to know it all, thus his calling bs on me for saying I use filters then suggesting I go through third parties.. Huh?? Anyway, I am learning as much about growing older here from him, as I am from harry.... Sorry Scott, but you respond to Harry's posts on a regular and daily basis. I didn't question the fact that you have him filtered. I simply stated that you still respond to his posts based on what you see quoted in other people's posts. Why are you so intent on making a regular fool of yourself? |
??? upgrading shore power to 50A 220V
On 3/18/2014 8:39 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/18/2014 8:24 AM, KC wrote: On 3/18/2014 8:09 AM, Boating All Out wrote: In article , says... I hopefully feel better for the original poster who asked the question. People like you who shoot your mouth off about things you know nothing about can be dangerous to one's health and safety. He admitted To Wayne he gave a wrong answer, and shouldn't have. No need to keep insulting him. Some folks come here for their victories.. Dick needs to know it all, thus his calling bs on me for saying I use filters then suggesting I go through third parties.. Huh?? Anyway, I am learning as much about growing older here from him, as I am from harry.... Sorry Scott, but you respond to Harry's posts on a regular and daily basis. I didn't question the fact that you have him filtered. I simply stated that you still respond to his posts based on what you see quoted in other people's posts. Why are you so intent on making a regular fool of yourself? Why do you feel like it's your place to point that out? Am I the only one you feel superior to here? Time to plonk you again, you really have nothing to add that harry couldn't with a quick search of google... |
??? upgrading shore power to 50A 220V
On 3/18/2014 8:50 AM, KC wrote:
On 3/18/2014 8:39 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 3/18/2014 8:24 AM, KC wrote: On 3/18/2014 8:09 AM, Boating All Out wrote: In article , says... I hopefully feel better for the original poster who asked the question. People like you who shoot your mouth off about things you know nothing about can be dangerous to one's health and safety. He admitted To Wayne he gave a wrong answer, and shouldn't have. No need to keep insulting him. Some folks come here for their victories.. Dick needs to know it all, thus his calling bs on me for saying I use filters then suggesting I go through third parties.. Huh?? Anyway, I am learning as much about growing older here from him, as I am from harry.... Sorry Scott, but you respond to Harry's posts on a regular and daily basis. I didn't question the fact that you have him filtered. I simply stated that you still respond to his posts based on what you see quoted in other people's posts. Why are you so intent on making a regular fool of yourself? Why do you feel like it's your place to point that out? Am I the only one you feel superior to here? Time to plonk you again, you really have nothing to add that harry couldn't with a quick search of google... Plonk away. Thanks. I'll fully expect to see your comments on anything I have to say regardless. |
??? upgrading shore power to 50A 220V
On 3/18/14, 8:50 AM, KC wrote:
On 3/18/2014 8:39 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 3/18/2014 8:24 AM, KC wrote: On 3/18/2014 8:09 AM, Boating All Out wrote: In article , says... I hopefully feel better for the original poster who asked the question. People like you who shoot your mouth off about things you know nothing about can be dangerous to one's health and safety. He admitted To Wayne he gave a wrong answer, and shouldn't have. No need to keep insulting him. Some folks come here for their victories.. Dick needs to know it all, thus his calling bs on me for saying I use filters then suggesting I go through third parties.. Huh?? Anyway, I am learning as much about growing older here from him, as I am from harry.... Sorry Scott, but you respond to Harry's posts on a regular and daily basis. I didn't question the fact that you have him filtered. I simply stated that you still respond to his posts based on what you see quoted in other people's posts. Why are you so intent on making a regular fool of yourself? Why do you feel like it's your place to point that out? Am I the only one you feel superior to here? Time to plonk you again, you really have nothing to add that harry couldn't with a quick search of google... That's not true. Richard knows far more about electricity and how it works than I shall ever know, even with the help of google. Interestingly, though, both of us know when to bring in a licensed electrician. |
??? upgrading shore power to 50A 220V
On 3/18/2014 3:34 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/18/2014 12:22 AM, KC wrote: On 3/17/2014 7:57 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 3/17/2014 7:14 PM, wrote: On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 18:19:42 -0400, KC wrote: On 3/17/2014 6:01 PM, david@righthere... wrote: I've been on 30A 120V power at the dock for years and would now like to upgrade to 50A 220V, or what they refer to as 50A 250V at the marina office. I haven't put a meter on it yet but so far suspect it's closer to 220 than 250. The socket on the pedestal is like the one pictured he http://www.catagle.com/68-153/CWD_Ar...uyersGuide.htm They say it's 3-pole 4-wire. I'm guessing X and Y are the two hot legs and W is the neutral. Between X or Y and W would be 120V+/- and between X and Y is the 220/250V. Right? How does the ground tie into it though? With only 3 poles do we run a separate wire from the boat to the pedestal, and if so how do we tie in? Also can anyone suggest the cheapest place to get a plug like that? So far the best price I've found is $68.18 he http://www.ktool.net/servlet/the-581...-63CR65/Detail Thank you for any help! David The plug is 10-20 bucks at home depot or lowes, Scottys whatever you have. It's a dryer plug basically... As to the wiring, I forget but I have a book I always use when I do the wiring.. It was about 20 bucks at home depot, I have had it for as long as I have owned a house... Not true at all, sorry. This is a non-NEMA twist lock 50a plug, that is corrosion resistant. A dryer plug is a NEMA 14-30 straight blade that would go south pretty quickly on a pier. Yup. I think Scotty should stick to building websites and not wiring boats. Why, cause I took a quick look and made a mistake? I have done a lot of wiring in my time including my whole house to code in Essex from moving in with full Knob and Tube... I have done barns, and wells. When you have a 100 year old house you tend to pick up stuff. You should see me sweat a pipe.... even if I don't know all the right terminology. Either way, that's why I always keep my electrical book with me to check my own work as I go.... Scott, the OP didn't say if he was re-wiring his *boat* for a 50 amp, 240v marine split service. He might be just trying to use one leg of it to supply 50 amps to his existing 30 amp, 120v boat panel. If so, he's taking a big risk because it's not just the plug in question. The primary feed wires in the boat that run from the power inlet to the power panel needs to be changed at a minimum. Plus, if the existing power panel has a 30 amp main, supplying it with 50 amps isn't going to do him any good. If he changes that to a 50 amp breaker without doing any changes to the wiring, he could overheat the primary feed wiring in the boat, causing a fire. My comment was more than pointing out that a split, 50 amp marine service plug is not a dryer plug. I did what I think he is trying to accomplish on the Grand Banks we had. It had a standard, 30 amp, 120v service. I wanted to add two air-conditioning units to the boat. Rather than change everything over to a 50 amp, 240v split service I simply added another 30 amp, 120v marine inlet connector, wiring (marine type) and a small, dedicated breaker box with two 15 amp breakers in it, one for each of the AC units. I don't know a lot about many things and nothing about some things however electrical power distribution and wiring happens to be one thing I *do* know something about. I'd hate to see someone hurt or killed because they received bad input. Now, I have a question for you. Let's say your house has a 200 amp service. Your main breaker is a double pole, 200 amp per pole breaker. There's 240vac between the two "hot" legs and 120vac between either of them and neutral. Each hot leg from the utility pole is sized for 200 amps for each side of the service, yet the neutral is also only sized for 200 amps. Why isn't it sized for 400 amps, the sum of both sides of the total service? See if the answer is in your "electrical" book. Your question shouldn't phase him a bit. |
??? upgrading shore power to 50A 220V
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??? upgrading shore power to 50A 220V
On 3/18/2014 2:12 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 3/18/14, 1:50 PM, wrote: On Tue, 18 Mar 2014 08:18:15 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: BTW, the answer to the question I asked is because the two "hot" legs are 180 degrees out of phase relative to each other, so the net current flowing through the neutral leg adds algebraically. The current through the neutral leg can never exceed 200 amperes. Algebra! Holy smoked salmon! :) and heavy duty algebra at that. You don't really get to algebra until you start talking about 3 phase and it is actually more like geometry. (vectors) The answer is usually the Sq/Rt of 3 tho. (where "208" comes from) I thought the square root of 3 was 1.7 something or other, though maybe you mean something different, because I don't recall an abbreviation of "Sq/Rt." I do recall sq.rt and sq rt. In three phase power circuits the total wattage is the average voltage of each leg x the average current of each leg x a power factor x the sq.rt of 3 (1.73) |
??? upgrading shore power to 50A 220V
On 3/18/14, 2:39 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/18/2014 2:12 PM, F*O*A*D wrote: On 3/18/14, 1:50 PM, wrote: On Tue, 18 Mar 2014 08:18:15 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: BTW, the answer to the question I asked is because the two "hot" legs are 180 degrees out of phase relative to each other, so the net current flowing through the neutral leg adds algebraically. The current through the neutral leg can never exceed 200 amperes. Algebra! Holy smoked salmon! :) and heavy duty algebra at that. You don't really get to algebra until you start talking about 3 phase and it is actually more like geometry. (vectors) The answer is usually the Sq/Rt of 3 tho. (where "208" comes from) I thought the square root of 3 was 1.7 something or other, though maybe you mean something different, because I don't recall an abbreviation of "Sq/Rt." I do recall sq.rt and sq rt. In three phase power circuits the total wattage is the average voltage of each leg x the average current of each leg x a power factor x the sq.rt of 3 (1.73) Eureka! Thanks. Never knew that. :) |
??? upgrading shore power to 50A 220V
On 3/18/2014 2:46 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 3/18/14, 2:39 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 3/18/2014 2:12 PM, F*O*A*D wrote: On 3/18/14, 1:50 PM, wrote: On Tue, 18 Mar 2014 08:18:15 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: BTW, the answer to the question I asked is because the two "hot" legs are 180 degrees out of phase relative to each other, so the net current flowing through the neutral leg adds algebraically. The current through the neutral leg can never exceed 200 amperes. Algebra! Holy smoked salmon! :) and heavy duty algebra at that. You don't really get to algebra until you start talking about 3 phase and it is actually more like geometry. (vectors) The answer is usually the Sq/Rt of 3 tho. (where "208" comes from) I thought the square root of 3 was 1.7 something or other, though maybe you mean something different, because I don't recall an abbreviation of "Sq/Rt." I do recall sq.rt and sq rt. In three phase power circuits the total wattage is the average voltage of each leg x the average current of each leg x a power factor x the sq.rt of 3 (1.73) Eureka! Thanks. Never knew that. :) Write that down in the notes section of your pocket dictionary. |
??? upgrading shore power to 50A 220V
F*O*A*D wrote:
On 3/18/14, 7:05 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 3/18/2014 6:26 AM, F*O*A*D wrote: On 3/17/14, 6:19 PM, KC wrote: On 3/17/2014 6:01 PM, david@righthere... wrote: I've been on 30A 120V power at the dock for years and would now like to upgrade to 50A 220V, or what they refer to as 50A 250V at the marina office. I haven't put a meter on it yet but so far suspect it's closer to 220 than 250. The socket on the pedestal is like the one pictured he http://www.catagle.com/68-153/CWD_Ar...uyersGuide.htm They say it's 3-pole 4-wire. I'm guessing X and Y are the two hot legs and W is the neutral. Between X or Y and W would be 120V+/- and between X and Y is the 220/250V. Right? How does the ground tie into it though? With only 3 poles do we run a separate wire from the boat to the pedestal, and if so how do we tie in? Also can anyone suggest the cheapest place to get a plug like that? So far the best price I've found is $68.18 he http://www.ktool.net/servlet/the-581...-63CR65/Detail Thank you for any help! David The plug is 10-20 bucks at home depot or lowes, Scottys whatever you have. It's a dryer plug basically... As to the wiring, I forget but I have a book I always use when I do the wiring.. It was about 20 bucks at home depot, I have had it for as long as I have owned a house... Yikes! It's NOT a dryer plug, basically or otherwise. :) Not to knock Scotty but I got a big kick out of his statement, "As to the wiring, I forget but I have a book I always use when I do the wiring". I think Scott should limit his wiring to 12 volt devices. Whoops. I take that back. My oldest grandson recently got his first car and (like all teenagers) was installing a sound system that included a massive bass speaker cabinet and a dedicated, 1200 watt amplifier to drive it. He was wiring the power to the amp with some small gauge "hook up" wire that he bought. I explained to him that he only had 12 volts +/- available and if the amp was capable of 1200 watts, he could be drawing close to 100 peak amps at times and his little hookup wire was going to act like a fuse. Got him some appropriately sized wire. I'm not a fan of taking unnecessary physical, fire or explosion risks, so I don't do wiring any more difficult than replacing a switch or a light fixture. We haven't really had any serious electrical issues here. The wiring for our generator was handled by the contractor's licensed electricians. Thank you for your invaluable input. |
??? upgrading shore power to 50A 220V
On 3/19/2014 7:54 PM, Earl wrote:
F*O*A*D wrote: On 3/18/14, 7:05 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 3/18/2014 6:26 AM, F*O*A*D wrote: On 3/17/14, 6:19 PM, KC wrote: On 3/17/2014 6:01 PM, david@righthere... wrote: I've been on 30A 120V power at the dock for years and would now like to upgrade to 50A 220V, or what they refer to as 50A 250V at the marina office. I haven't put a meter on it yet but so far suspect it's closer to 220 than 250. The socket on the pedestal is like the one pictured he http://www.catagle.com/68-153/CWD_Ar...uyersGuide.htm They say it's 3-pole 4-wire. I'm guessing X and Y are the two hot legs and W is the neutral. Between X or Y and W would be 120V+/- and between X and Y is the 220/250V. Right? How does the ground tie into it though? With only 3 poles do we run a separate wire from the boat to the pedestal, and if so how do we tie in? Also can anyone suggest the cheapest place to get a plug like that? So far the best price I've found is $68.18 he http://www.ktool.net/servlet/the-581...-63CR65/Detail Thank you for any help! David The plug is 10-20 bucks at home depot or lowes, Scottys whatever you have. It's a dryer plug basically... As to the wiring, I forget but I have a book I always use when I do the wiring.. It was about 20 bucks at home depot, I have had it for as long as I have owned a house... Yikes! It's NOT a dryer plug, basically or otherwise. :) Not to knock Scotty but I got a big kick out of his statement, "As to the wiring, I forget but I have a book I always use when I do the wiring". I think Scott should limit his wiring to 12 volt devices. Whoops. I take that back. My oldest grandson recently got his first car and (like all teenagers) was installing a sound system that included a massive bass speaker cabinet and a dedicated, 1200 watt amplifier to drive it. He was wiring the power to the amp with some small gauge "hook up" wire that he bought. I explained to him that he only had 12 volts +/- available and if the amp was capable of 1200 watts, he could be drawing close to 100 peak amps at times and his little hookup wire was going to act like a fuse. Got him some appropriately sized wire. I'm not a fan of taking unnecessary physical, fire or explosion risks, so I don't do wiring any more difficult than replacing a switch or a light fixture. We haven't really had any serious electrical issues here. The wiring for our generator was handled by the contractor's licensed electricians. Thank you for your invaluable input. I think the whole idea was to "knock" me.. it's always good though cause I just shut off rec.boats for a day and it goes away:) Of course another lib gets to "bully" another opinion off the table, but so be it.. Anyway, my point was "I use a book whenever I do this stuff" even the stuff I know well like plumbing, etc. Anyway, I went and looked at my book and realized that the hookup the guy was asking about was above my pay grade so of course I wouldn't have taken it on, even with my book... Hey, I know I'm no expert but I do maintain a 100 year old house and from water delivery, septic, plumbing, heat, electrical, paint, structure... I do manage to get it all done, by myself, me and my stupid books.. And when I need a hole dug, I hire a pro with bigger tools:) other than that, I get by. |
??? upgrading shore power to 50A 220V
On 3/19/14, 8:41 PM, KC wrote:
F*O*A*D wrote: I'm not a fan of taking unnecessary physical, fire or explosion risks, so I don't do wiring any more difficult than replacing a switch or a light fixture. We haven't really had any serious electrical issues here. The wiring for our generator was handled by the contractor's licensed electricians. I think the whole idea was to "knock" me.. The world isn't about you, psycho. -- Rand Paul & Ted Cruz…your 2016 GOP nominees, because ‘Mericans deserve crazy! |
??? upgrading shore power to 50A 220V
On 3/19/2014 8:41 PM, KC wrote:
And when I need a hole dug, I hire a pro with bigger tools:) other than that, I get by. Don't feel bad. Harry had to hire an expert to skillfully dig his post holes. |
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