On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 23:39:23 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/12/2014 11:22 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/12/2014 8:13 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 19:14:08 -0500, KC wrote:




https://www.google.com/search?q=gpx+corner&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x ev7Upn5IoSMqQGT-IGgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=667#q=motorcycl e+corner&tbm=isch


nd the rear tire is tracking inside
the track of the front tire..

There may be a couple exceptions such as corners that are too sharp for
normal tracking... Again, those tracks are made for
drifting/countersteering so they will be faster in that mode..

All of 'em.


No way, you said counter steering is the front tire turned away from the
radius.. NONE of the bikes above is in that positition, not one of
them.. either you are blind, or stubborn, but the pictuers above clearly
show the front tires turned into the radius... nuff' said... and until
you can show me one that has the front tire turned away from the radius,
that's it..


To keep the bike down they have to be exerting force on
the low side handlebar,
otherwise the bike will straighten by itself.


Can't quit can you.

Don't go by what I said, plug 'counter steering' into Google and learn something.

It will, obviously, do you a lot of good.

On 2/13/2014 8:17 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 23:39:23 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/12/2014 11:22 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/12/2014 8:13 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 19:14:08 -0500, KC wrote:




https://www.google.com/search?q=gpx+corner&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x ev7Upn5IoSMqQGT-IGgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=667#q=motorcycl e+corner&tbm=isch


nd the rear tire is tracking inside
the track of the front tire..

There may be a couple exceptions such as corners that are too sharp for
normal tracking... Again, those tracks are made for
drifting/countersteering so they will be faster in that mode..

All of 'em.


No way, you said counter steering is the front tire turned away from the
radius.. NONE of the bikes above is in that positition, not one of
them.. either you are blind, or stubborn, but the pictuers above clearly
show the front tires turned into the radius... nuff' said... and until
you can show me one that has the front tire turned away from the radius,
that's it..


To keep the bike down they have to be exerting force on
the low side handlebar,
otherwise the bike will straighten by itself.


Can't quit can you.

Don't go by what I said, plug 'counter steering' into Google and learn something.

It will, obviously, do you a lot of good.


Still waiting for you to show me the bike that's countersteering in the
google link I sent of "motorcycles turning".... snerk

On 2/13/2014 10:13 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/13/2014 8:17 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 23:39:23 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/12/2014 11:22 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/12/2014 8:13 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 19:14:08 -0500, KC wrote:




https://www.google.com/search?q=gpx+corner&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x ev7Upn5IoSMqQGT-IGgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=667#q=motorcycl e+corner&tbm=isch



nd the rear tire is tracking inside
the track of the front tire..

There may be a couple exceptions such as corners that are too
sharp for
normal tracking... Again, those tracks are made for
drifting/countersteering so they will be faster in that mode..

All of 'em.



https://www.google.com/search?q=gpx+corner&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x ev7Upn5IoSMqQGT-IGgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=667#q=motorcycl e+corner&tbm=isch


Please John, end the madness... Take a second and go to the link above
and post a quick link of the motorcycle you see in the first say, half
of the page where the front wheel is turned away from the radius and the
rear tire is tracking outside the front tire radius... or what you call
countersteering. You said all of 'em. Apparently you don't know what
countersteering really is....

On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 10:20:32 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/13/2014 10:13 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/13/2014 8:17 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 23:39:23 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/12/2014 11:22 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/12/2014 8:13 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 19:14:08 -0500, KC wrote:




https://www.google.com/search?q=gpx+corner&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x ev7Upn5IoSMqQGT-IGgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=667#q=motorcycl e+corner&tbm=isch



nd the rear tire is tracking inside
the track of the front tire..

There may be a couple exceptions such as corners that are too
sharp for
normal tracking... Again, those tracks are made for
drifting/countersteering so they will be faster in that mode..

All of 'em.



https://www.google.com/search?q=gpx+corner&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x ev7Upn5IoSMqQGT-IGgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=667#q=motorcycl e+corner&tbm=isch


Please John, end the madness... Take a second and go to the link above
and post a quick link of the motorcycle you see in the first say, half
of the page where the front wheel is turned away from the radius and the
rear tire is tracking outside the front tire radius... or what you call
countersteering. You said all of 'em. Apparently you don't know what
countersteering really is....

I've already answered it. They got to where they are by countersteering. They are staying in the
turn because they are pushing on the handlebar corresponding to the direction of the turn. Push
left, go left. Push right, go right.

Here, now you look at something.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivwZ_DEFHrc

Bear with him.

Here's another - well explained.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlc1bGPTR3c

On 2/13/2014 12:16 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 10:20:32 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/13/2014 10:13 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/13/2014 8:17 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 23:39:23 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/12/2014 11:22 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/12/2014 8:13 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 19:14:08 -0500, KC wrote:




https://www.google.com/search?q=gpx+corner&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x ev7Upn5IoSMqQGT-IGgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=667#q=motorcycl e+corner&tbm=isch



nd the rear tire is tracking inside
the track of the front tire..

There may be a couple exceptions such as corners that are too
sharp for
normal tracking... Again, those tracks are made for
drifting/countersteering so they will be faster in that mode..

All of 'em.



https://www.google.com/search?q=gpx+corner&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x ev7Upn5IoSMqQGT-IGgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=667#q=motorcycl e+corner&tbm=isch


Please John, end the madness... Take a second and go to the link above
and post a quick link of the motorcycle you see in the first say, half
of the page where the front wheel is turned away from the radius and the
rear tire is tracking outside the front tire radius... or what you call
countersteering. You said all of 'em. Apparently you don't know what
countersteering really is....

I've already answered it. They got to where they are by countersteering. They are staying in the
turn because they are pushing on the handlebar corresponding to the direction of the turn. Push
left, go left. Push right, go right.

Here, now you look at something.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivwZ_DEFHrc


No question there... I had that save my ass on my CB500 Twin which
supposedly had a "Triumph" style front end. I hit a huge chunk of frozen
slush and it kicked my tire out so I got loose, and let the thing swing
back and fourth till it stood itself back up, I pulled over and cleaned
my pants out... literally...

I understand the technique completely, no issue there I have a high
level of what they call three dimensional comprehension... I actually
see the forces of water and gyros, etc in my head when I design, I used
to see how water would work around boat hulls when I drew them and where
the drag would be etc... Put it in the computer and it was right, used
to talk about it a lot with my engineer bud in Gloucester...

Anyway, to countersteering (which I believe in My only point is I
"can" initiate a turn without countersteering by meerely shifting my
weight before initiating the turn. At the same time I also understand
that in the emergency situation when you don't have time to set up, the
countersteer is the only way to start the turn... You see, I get it, but
still like the guy in your vid said... "The countersteer initiates the
turn, but the gyro effect immediately corrects it"... or you would
really be on the pavement... If you are countersteering through the
corner (over riding the natural "steering force" tendency to "correct"),
you are sliding the back tire sideways and scrubbing off speed....
Bear with him.

Here's another - well explained.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlc1bGPTR3c

On 2/13/14, 3:29 PM, KC wrote:

I understand the technique completely, no issue there I have a high
level of what they call three dimensional comprehension.


Wow. You could have been an astronaut!


--
Sarah Palin is watching the Sochi Olympic Games from the front porch of
her house.

On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 15:29:25 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/13/2014 12:16 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 10:20:32 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/13/2014 10:13 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/13/2014 8:17 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 23:39:23 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/12/2014 11:22 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/12/2014 8:13 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 19:14:08 -0500, KC wrote:




https://www.google.com/search?q=gpx+corner&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x ev7Upn5IoSMqQGT-IGgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=667#q=motorcycl e+corner&tbm=isch



nd the rear tire is tracking inside
the track of the front tire..

There may be a couple exceptions such as corners that are too
sharp for
normal tracking... Again, those tracks are made for
drifting/countersteering so they will be faster in that mode..

All of 'em.



https://www.google.com/search?q=gpx+corner&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x ev7Upn5IoSMqQGT-IGgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=667#q=motorcycl e+corner&tbm=isch


Please John, end the madness... Take a second and go to the link above
and post a quick link of the motorcycle you see in the first say, half
of the page where the front wheel is turned away from the radius and the
rear tire is tracking outside the front tire radius... or what you call
countersteering. You said all of 'em. Apparently you don't know what
countersteering really is....

I've already answered it. They got to where they are by countersteering. They are staying in the
turn because they are pushing on the handlebar corresponding to the direction of the turn. Push
left, go left. Push right, go right.

Here, now you look at something.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivwZ_DEFHrc


No question there... I had that save my ass on my CB500 Twin which
supposedly had a "Triumph" style front end. I hit a huge chunk of frozen
slush and it kicked my tire out so I got loose, and let the thing swing
back and fourth till it stood itself back up, I pulled over and cleaned
my pants out... literally...

I understand the technique completely, no issue there I have a high
level of what they call three dimensional comprehension... I actually
see the forces of water and gyros, etc in my head when I design, I used
to see how water would work around boat hulls when I drew them and where
the drag would be etc... Put it in the computer and it was right, used
to talk about it a lot with my engineer bud in Gloucester...

Anyway, to countersteering (which I believe in

It's not a question of belief, It's what is.

My only point is I
"can" initiate a turn without countersteering by meerely shifting my
weight before initiating the turn.

Very often it seems like a lean is initiating the turn, but in reality it's the pressure you're
putting on the handlebar when you lean. For example, if I don't exert any pressure on the handlebar,
I can lean over and pull my pants leg down without making a turn. Have you never done that? Oh, I
suppose you could lean enough to change lanes on the highway, but you'd not want to try taking any
sharp curves that way.

At the same time I also understand
that in the emergency situation when you don't have time to set up, the
countersteer is the only way to start the turn... You see, I get it, but
still like the guy in your vid said... "The countersteer initiates the
turn, but the gyro effect immediately corrects it"...

The gyro effect immediately brings the bike back up - if the countersteering is stopped - i.e., no
more pressure on the handle bar. If the pushing on the bar is continued, the bike will lean more and
turn more sharply.

or you would
really be on the pavement... If you are countersteering through the
corner (over riding the natural "steering force" tendency to "correct"),
you are sliding the back tire sideways and scrubbing off speed....

Totally wrong. If your speed is too fast for the turn, *then* you may slide the rear tire. The force
on the handlebar (the countersteering force) is continued until you are ready to straigten up and
come out of the turn. Then the push is relaxed and the bike corrects itself - comes back to the
vertical.

Sliding at speed is *not* the way to turn corners.

On 2/13/2014 4:04 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 15:29:25 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/13/2014 12:16 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 10:20:32 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/13/2014 10:13 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/13/2014 8:17 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 23:39:23 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/12/2014 11:22 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/12/2014 8:13 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 19:14:08 -0500, KC wrote:




https://www.google.com/search?q=gpx+corner&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x ev7Upn5IoSMqQGT-IGgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=667#q=motorcycl e+corner&tbm=isch



nd the rear tire is tracking inside
the track of the front tire..

There may be a couple exceptions such as corners that are too
sharp for
normal tracking... Again, those tracks are made for
drifting/countersteering so they will be faster in that mode..

All of 'em.



https://www.google.com/search?q=gpx+corner&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x ev7Upn5IoSMqQGT-IGgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=667#q=motorcycl e+corner&tbm=isch


Please John, end the madness... Take a second and go to the link above
and post a quick link of the motorcycle you see in the first say, half
of the page where the front wheel is turned away from the radius and the
rear tire is tracking outside the front tire radius... or what you call
countersteering. You said all of 'em. Apparently you don't know what
countersteering really is....

I've already answered it. They got to where they are by countersteering. They are staying in the
turn because they are pushing on the handlebar corresponding to the direction of the turn. Push
left, go left. Push right, go right.

Here, now you look at something.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivwZ_DEFHrc


No question there... I had that save my ass on my CB500 Twin which
supposedly had a "Triumph" style front end. I hit a huge chunk of frozen
slush and it kicked my tire out so I got loose, and let the thing swing
back and fourth till it stood itself back up, I pulled over and cleaned
my pants out... literally...

I understand the technique completely, no issue there I have a high
level of what they call three dimensional comprehension... I actually
see the forces of water and gyros, etc in my head when I design, I used
to see how water would work around boat hulls when I drew them and where
the drag would be etc... Put it in the computer and it was right, used
to talk about it a lot with my engineer bud in Gloucester...

Anyway, to countersteering (which I believe in

It's not a question of belief, It's what is.

My only point is I
"can" initiate a turn without countersteering by meerely shifting my
weight before initiating the turn.

Very often it seems like a lean is initiating the turn, but in reality it's the pressure you're
putting on the handlebar when you lean. For example, if I don't exert any pressure on the handlebar,
I can lean over and pull my pants leg down without making a turn. Have you never done that? Oh, I
suppose you could lean enough to change lanes on the highway, but you'd not want to try taking any
sharp curves that way.

At the same time I also understand
that in the emergency situation when you don't have time to set up, the
countersteer is the only way to start the turn... You see, I get it, but
still like the guy in your vid said... "The countersteer initiates the
turn, but the gyro effect immediately corrects it"...

The gyro effect immediately brings the bike back up - if the countersteering is stopped - i.e., no
more pressure on the handle bar. If the pushing on the bar is continued, the bike will lean more and
turn more sharply.

or you would
really be on the pavement... If you are countersteering through the
corner (over riding the natural "steering force" tendency to "correct"),
you are sliding the back tire sideways and scrubbing off speed....

Totally wrong. If your speed is too fast for the turn, *then* you may slide the rear tire. The force
on the handlebar (the countersteering force) is continued until you are ready to straigten up and
come out of the turn. Then the push is relaxed and the bike corrects itself - comes back to the
vertical.

Sliding at speed is *not* the way to turn corners.


I get it but how can you counter steer "through a corner"? None of the
bikes in my link have the bars turned away from the radius... The only
bikes I know that "counter steer" though a corner are these types of
bikes that run on ice and dirt. If you skip to the 1:05 minute mark and
watch this corner, you will see motorcycles counter steering "through" a
corner. As we determined earlier. The front wheel is turned "away" from
the radius of the turn, and the rear tire is sliding in a radius outside
the radius of the front tire...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqUnhTpbtSM



.... as opposed to these guys who are clearly *not* counter steering
"through" a corner... as very clear if you skip to the 2 minute mark and
watch the yellow bike on the right of the frame... It's front tire is
turned into the radius, and the rear tire is not sliding sideways, but
tracking forward in the direction of the turn, ideally slightly inside
the radius of the front tire... this bike is "steering" not counter
steering... as in the video of the flat trackers above...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjSXehuADx4


Period...

On 2/13/2014 12:16 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 10:20:32 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/13/2014 10:13 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/13/2014 8:17 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 23:39:23 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/12/2014 11:22 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/12/2014 8:13 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 19:14:08 -0500, KC wrote:




https://www.google.com/search?q=gpx+corner&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x ev7Upn5IoSMqQGT-IGgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=667#q=motorcycl e+corner&tbm=isch



nd the rear tire is tracking inside
the track of the front tire..

There may be a couple exceptions such as corners that are too
sharp for
normal tracking... Again, those tracks are made for
drifting/countersteering so they will be faster in that mode..

All of 'em.



https://www.google.com/search?q=gpx+corner&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x ev7Upn5IoSMqQGT-IGgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=667#q=motorcycl e+corner&tbm=isch


Please John, end the madness... Take a second and go to the link above
and post a quick link of the motorcycle you see in the first say, half
of the page where the front wheel is turned away from the radius and the
rear tire is tracking outside the front tire radius... or what you call
countersteering. You said all of 'em. Apparently you don't know what
countersteering really is....

I've already answered it. They got to where they are by countersteering. They are staying in the
turn because they are pushing on the handlebar corresponding to the direction of the turn. Push
left, go left. Push right, go right.

Here, now you look at something.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivwZ_DEFHrc

Bear with him.

Here's another - well explained.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlc1bGPTR3c


Again, it's a parlor trick here... When he is standing and showing you,
he is on both feet and doesn't shift his weight. Same when he is on the
highway. If you push the left bar without leaning, it will go right for
a second but correct, keep that pushed and you go over. At the same
time, lean right and then push the left bar, and the opposite happens,
and there is no correction......