On 2/14/2014 9:30 AM, KC wrote:
Yup, counter steer, then steer, then countersteer again.... got it...
but not "through the corner".. your own pics are clear.... thanks....

I hope you can remember all that in the middle of a critical turn.

In article om, says...

On 2/14/2014 9:30 AM, KC wrote:
Yup, counter steer, then steer, then countersteer again.... got it...
but not "through the corner".. your own pics are clear.... thanks....

I hope you can remember all that in the middle of a critical turn.

I rode a motorcycle on the roads for about 5 years. I never thought about how to steer
through the corners, it came naturally maybe due to all of the bicycle riding that I had been
performing in the preceeding 20 years.

On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 10:06:51 -0500, HanK wrote:

On 2/14/2014 9:30 AM, KC wrote:
Yup, counter steer, then steer, then countersteer again.... got it...
but not "through the corner".. your own pics are clear.... thanks....

I hope you can remember all that in the middle of a critical turn.

It's especially important to remember in a decreasing radius turn, when the only way to get through
it is to push down harder on the lower bar. Or just panic and hit the ditch, tree, abutment, etc.

On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 09:30:47 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/14/2014 7:48 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 06:41:28 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/14/2014 1:17 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 19:37:24 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Ok. Whatever you say. I quit. Not worth the effort anymore.

and overdue. I think most of us know a gyro precesses 90 degrees to
the force in the direction of rotation. try to push the left side of
the axle forward, it will move down.


Wow, no ****.... But still, I showed several bikes turning left, wheels
turned left.... And at least I didn't spend my day just ****ing with
someone here. Thought I was helping someone, but finally figured more
than one is here just to play....

Scotty, I spent a good part of yesterday trying to explain to you what really happens when you turn
a motorcycle. You chose not to believe it, came up with ridiculous 'arguments', put up a picture of
a dirt bike in a slide, argued against Wikipedia, expert rider videos, and a Motorcycle Safety
Instructor. Then you started putting bull**** words in my mouth and comparing me to Harry and Kevin.
After trying to keep a level head, I gave up. That's when I said I'd just made up the whole thing.
By looking at Google, Wikipedia, videos, etc, you should have realized I was bull****ting when I
said I made it all up. But I'm thinking that was the only thing you took seriously.

OK, here's the real poop. Steering a motorcycle at more that 'parking lot' speeds is done using a
technique called counter steering. The technique is called 'counter steering' because it is
'counter' to the way we learned how to turn a tricycle. On a motorcycle, we push left to go left,
and push right to go right, as was explained in numerous videos, Wikipedia, and over a million hits
in Google if you plug in 'counter steering a motorcycle'.

Here are some nice pictures explaining the technique:

http://www.motorcycletraining.com/wo...eering-pic.jpg

Established that yesterday. Motorcycle countersteers, corrects, and
steers through the turn... got it...

http://xbhp.com/ridesafe/images/coun...ersteering.jpg

The process through a curve::

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cornerbike.gif

Yup, counter steer, then steer, then countersteer again.... got it...
but not "through the corner".. your own pics are clear.... thanks....

You're welcome. Becoming more proficient can only make you a safer, better rider.

Keep the rubber side down!

On 2/14/2014 9:59 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/14/2014 9:30 AM, KC wrote:

On 2/14/2014 7:48 AM, Poco Loco wrote:


Scotty, I spent a good part of yesterday trying to explain to you what
really happens when you turn
a motorcycle. You chose not to believe it, came up with ridiculous
'arguments', put up a picture of
a dirt bike in a slide, argued against Wikipedia, expert rider videos,
and a Motorcycle Safety
Instructor. Then you started putting bull**** words in my mouth and
comparing me to Harry and Kevin.
After trying to keep a level head, I gave up. That's when I said I'd
just made up the whole thing.
By looking at Google, Wikipedia, videos, etc, you should have realized
I was bull****ting when I
said I made it all up. But I'm thinking that was the only thing you
took seriously.

OK, here's the real poop. Steering a motorcycle at more that 'parking
lot' speeds is done using a
technique called counter steering. The technique is called 'counter
steering' because it is
'counter' to the way we learned how to turn a tricycle. On a
motorcycle, we push left to go left,
and push right to go right, as was explained in numerous videos,
Wikipedia, and over a million hits
in Google if you plug in 'counter steering a motorcycle'.

Here are some nice pictures explaining the technique:

http://www.motorcycletraining.com/wo...eering-pic.jpg



Established that yesterday. Motorcycle countersteers, corrects, and
steers through the turn... got it...

http://xbhp.com/ridesafe/images/coun...ersteering.jpg

The process through a curve::

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cornerbike.gif



Yup, counter steer, then steer, then countersteer again.... got it...
but not "through the corner".. your own pics are clear.... thanks....


I swore I wouldn't get involved in this anymore, but I have to point out
something.

Scott, that "gif" image showing the proper way to take a turn is
deceiving and not really telling the whole story.

It shows a section where you counter-steer to enter and begin the turn.
Based on the diagram, you might interpret that you *stop* the
counter-steer while in the turn. That's what is deceiving about the
diagram.

The amount of counter-steer is actually maintained throughout the turn
because the forces on the bike and rider remain constant throughout. It
*has* to, otherwise you won't completely navigate the turn.

However .. if the rear wheel breaks free and aligns with the direction
the bike is traveling, the previously established counter-steer
requirement will be nullified. You may have to re-establish
counter-steer again however to complete the rest of the turn.

The pictures you keep referencing are worthless. Where you see pressure
on the handlebars in one direction, I see it opposite.
The amount of counter-steer is so subtle, you really can't clearly see
what is going on.




So what you are saying is countersteering isn't related to the direction
of the front forks in relation to the centerline of the bike, it's
related to the force applied to the front forks in relation to the
gyroscopic plane created by the tires? Ok, that makes more sense...

On 2/14/2014 10:14 AM, BAR wrote:
In article om, says...

On 2/14/2014 9:30 AM, KC wrote:
Yup, counter steer, then steer, then countersteer again.... got it...
but not "through the corner".. your own pics are clear.... thanks....

I hope you can remember all that in the middle of a critical turn.

I rode a motorcycle on the roads for about 5 years. I never thought about how to steer
through the corners, it came naturally maybe due to all of the bicycle riding that I had been
performing in the preceeding 20 years.


You just said it in a nutshell. It becomes intuitive because you
learned its how you get around a curve. You don't even realize what you
are doing until you really think about it or we get in a discussion like
this.

The reason it became intuitive is because without counter-steering ..
you crashed.

However, understanding what counter-steering is all about can get you
out of an unexpected dangerous situation, like avoiding a deer or
something that fell out of the back of a pickup truck.

I remember reading a motorcycle safety article years ago. When riding,
the bike will track in the direction you are looking, simply due to
unconscious reactions you make to seeing road ahead or objects on or in
it. If you see and concentrate on a big pothole coming up in the road,
you will naturally tend to head for it initially. That's where
understanding effects like counter-steering becomes important.

On 2/14/2014 10:06 AM, HanK wrote:
On 2/14/2014 9:30 AM, KC wrote:
Yup, counter steer, then steer, then countersteer again.... got it...
but not "through the corner".. your own pics are clear.... thanks....

I hope you can remember all that in the middle of a critical turn.

Don't have to, haven't you been reading. If the bike turns, you are
doing it... no other way around it...

On 2/14/2014 10:15 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 10:06:51 -0500, HanK wrote:

On 2/14/2014 9:30 AM, KC wrote:
Yup, counter steer, then steer, then countersteer again.... got it...
but not "through the corner".. your own pics are clear.... thanks....

I hope you can remember all that in the middle of a critical turn.

It's especially important to remember in a decreasing radius turn, when the only way to get through
it is to push down harder on the lower bar. Or just panic and hit the ditch, tree, abutment, etc.


We just drove our street bikes normally, not looking for that "feel" in
every corner so I didn't get surprised by a decreasing radius
corner...... Personally, I think it's kinda' irresponsible when bikes
get fast and loose on the street, that should be reserved for the track...

On 2/14/2014 10:15 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 10:06:51 -0500, HanK wrote:

On 2/14/2014 9:30 AM, KC wrote:
Yup, counter steer, then steer, then countersteer again.... got it...
but not "through the corner".. your own pics are clear.... thanks....

I hope you can remember all that in the middle of a critical turn.

It's especially important to remember in a decreasing radius turn, when the only way to get through
it is to push down harder on the lower bar. Or just panic and hit the ditch, tree, abutment, etc.



He doesn't get it. Never will.

On 2/14/2014 10:27 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 10:06 AM, HanK wrote:
On 2/14/2014 9:30 AM, KC wrote:
Yup, counter steer, then steer, then countersteer again.... got it...
but not "through the corner".. your own pics are clear.... thanks....

I hope you can remember all that in the middle of a critical turn.

Don't have to, haven't you been reading. If the bike turns, you are
doing it... no other way around it...


The goal is to make it turn in the direction and manner that you *want*
it to turn. :-)

I am not questioning anything you are saying as it relates to dirt bike
racing. It's a unique form of riding and you do things that us street
bikers don't do .. at least not on purpose. We don't go airborne, we
don't try to plant a new direction of travel upon landing, we don't
slide around corners or do any of the other maneuvers you are skilled in
doing. I couldn't do a wheelie on a Harley UltraClassic if I tried.

None of them apply to the millions of people riding street bikes on
roads and highways.