Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
#91
posted to rec.boats
|
|||
|
|||
A real dirt bike...
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 20:13:42 -0500, Earl__ wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote: On 2/12/2014 9:36 AM, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 9:17 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 2/12/2014 8:09 AM, Poco Loco wrote: On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 20:27:03 -0500, Earl__ wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 2/9/2014 6:25 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Sun, 9 Feb 2014 15:03:40 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: On Sunday, February 9, 2014 4:30:04 PM UTC-6, John H. wrote: On Sun, 9 Feb 2014 13:31:40 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: On Sunday, February 9, 2014 7:31:31 AM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote: I'd love to have one of these... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7mTwM7afQA how about something like this? http://thekneeslider.com/1937-front-...cle-prototype/ Looks like something Moto Guzzi made during the war. "Goose" probably tries something like that too, but this is French, and the French at that time were known to be great tinkerers, with results to match. Yeah, I should have said it looks like something Guzzi *could* have made during the war. Something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cOlS_ShXf4 Here's an idea for Scott: (warning - contains boating content) http://www.elrellano.com/videos_online/8146/barca-a-motor.html No steering unless that rowboat has a bow thruster. That boat is a high technology marvel incorporating 'eyeball sensormatic rotational assist'. Where you look is where you go. A sign on the bow says, "Don't look at women when operating this vessel." Sometimes the sign gets torn away. When I was a kid I had a 12' aluminum boat with a little 3hp outboard. I'd tighten the tension on the steering so the motor wouldn't move, sit in the middle seat and steer just by leaning towards one side or the other. Worked fine in large ponds. Somebody said "like a motorcycle"... But if you simply lean a motorcycle and don't turn the wheel, it will still go straight... Just sayin'. No, you have to tip the boat. Speaking of motorcycles, ever try this? Ride going straight ahead and push your *left* handlebar forward gently and see which way you turn. Then try with the *right* handlebar. That only works at higher speeds and I was taught how to ride that way. It was difficult to do at first since it didn't make sense. BTW - VERY gently - just a bit of pressure. Any speed over about 15 mph should show the same result. |
#92
posted to rec.boats
|
|||
|
|||
A real dirt bike...
Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 15:02:44 -0800, Bill McKee wrote: On 2/12/14, 2:09 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 16:21:26 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 3:52 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 15:15:41 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 12:35 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 11:44:07 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 11:20 AM, Poco Loco wrote: On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 10:33:01 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 10:06 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 2/12/2014 9:42 AM, Poco Loco wrote: On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 09:06:41 -0500, BAR wrote: In article , __ says... Mr. Luddite wrote: On 2/9/2014 6:25 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Sun, 9 Feb 2014 15:03:40 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: On Sunday, February 9, 2014 4:30:04 PM UTC-6, John H. wrote: On Sun, 9 Feb 2014 13:31:40 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: On Sunday, February 9, 2014 7:31:31 AM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote: I'd love to have one of these... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7mTwM7afQA how about something like this? http://thekneeslider.com/1937-front-...cle-prototype/ Looks like something Moto Guzzi made during the war. "Goose" probably tries something like that too, but this is French, and the French at that time were known to be great tinkerers, with results to match. Yeah, I should have said it looks like something Guzzi *could* have made during the war. Something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cOlS_ShXf4 Here's an idea for Scott: (warning - contains boating content) http://www.elrellano.com/videos_online/8146/barca-a-motor.html No steering unless that rowboat has a bow thruster. Just like a motor cycle, you just lean into the turn to make it go that way. No, leaning doesn't make it turn. Leaning enables the motorcycle to be kept more vertical when turning. Pushing on the handlebar makes you turn. Push left, go left. Push right, go right. Countersteering. Heh. I just mentioned to Scott about that. Those who don't ride will think it's weird. They think it should turn like a car. Yes, counter steering but again, it's not the fastest way around the corner It's the only way around the corner, at speed, on a motorcycle. I am beating myself up and I can't think of any place on the track where counter steering is faster... https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10202016412913497&set=a.10202016402 113227.1073741828.1281248494&type=3&theater Here is Jess setting up for a corner... notice she is turning left, and her bars are slightly left.. If she let her back tire slide out more (blowing the corner) the bike would have to stand back up and the back tire come back in line to get out of the corner... don't know if that makes any sense. I have a video I could find later of two riders me and Jess study. One came though the corner right (her mentor) and the guy behind counter steered through and lost two seconds in the corner... Letting the back tire 'slide out more' is not a method of riding for anyone but dirt bikers. When she initiated the turn to the left, she did it by pushing on the left bar or pulling on the right bar. Once the bike started leaning (and turning) she can slide all she wants. I think what she is doing in the picture is coming out of a turn. So she's pushing on the right bar to straighten the bike up (or pulling on the left bar). Looking at the tracks in the dirt also shows that she's through the turn. That picture is in the first 30 feet of the turn.. and no. She doesn't have to push the left down to initiate the turn. Some turns she comes into airborne and she already has the bars turned in the direction of the turn... I see completely what you guys are talking about. I have had a mc licence since '76 and always thought that way... Until I started training Jess. She comes into a corner and throws her weight over the bike.. but pushes both bars down... the outside bar further... never the inside bar, never let that rear tire get outside of the radius of the front tire...... Just the way it is. Again, if she pushes down on the inside bar, the rear tire kicks outside the radius of the inside tire. now you have thrust pushing askew from the direction of the bike... we calle it "wash out" or "blowing the berm".. draw it out, put arrows for thrust.. You will see... Uh-huh. I just hope Jess, while on pavement going at speed, doesn't ever push left to go right. Something will get broke. OK, let's go from there.. When you are countersteering on the street, by design the thrust of the rear tire and front tire are not in sync with the direction of the turn.. So which tire do you slide? When I am on the street, I do everything in my power *not* to slide! When I still had my bike, I slid both tires. Recovered before the incidence went into disaster. Problem with need for speed and backroads. I slid the front tire once. Scared the **** out of me (almost literally), but I let off the brake quick enough to not go down. Back tire slides aren't that bad if you let it bring you to a stop. It's when you get scared while sliding and let off the brake that you stand a good chance of 'high siding' and going down. I was going way to fast for the road! Kawasaki 350 2 stroke. rotary Valve. Next model up was the Green streak. 90 degree turn, trees on the outside. I had the bike over to the foot pegs and sliding. Missed the outside edge of the road by maybe an inch. Kenny Roberts could not have done better! |
#93
posted to rec.boats
|
|||
|
|||
A real dirt bike...
On 2/12/2014 8:01 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 17:40:16 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 5:17 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 16:14:00 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 3:49 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 15:05:39 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 2:47 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 13:59:51 -0500, HanK wrote: On 2/12/2014 11:37 AM, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 11:23 AM, HanK wrote: On 2/12/2014 10:40 AM, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 10:31 AM, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 10:04 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 2/12/2014 9:36 AM, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 9:17 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 2/12/2014 8:09 AM, Poco Loco wrote: On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 20:27:03 -0500, Earl__ wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 2/9/2014 6:25 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Sun, 9 Feb 2014 15:03:40 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: On Sunday, February 9, 2014 4:30:04 PM UTC-6, John H. wrote: On Sun, 9 Feb 2014 13:31:40 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: On Sunday, February 9, 2014 7:31:31 AM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote: I'd love to have one of these... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7mTwM7afQA how about something like this? http://thekneeslider.com/1937-front-...cle-prototype/ Looks like something Moto Guzzi made during the war. "Goose" probably tries something like that too, but this is French, and the French at that time were known to be great tinkerers, with results to match. Yeah, I should have said it looks like something Guzzi *could* have made during the war. Something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cOlS_ShXf4 Here's an idea for Scott: (warning - contains boating content) http://www.elrellano.com/videos_online/8146/barca-a-motor.html No steering unless that rowboat has a bow thruster. That boat is a high technology marvel incorporating 'eyeball sensormatic rotational assist'. Where you look is where you go. A sign on the bow says, "Don't look at women when operating this vessel." Sometimes the sign gets torn away. When I was a kid I had a 12' aluminum boat with a little 3hp outboard. I'd tighten the tension on the steering so the motor wouldn't move, sit in the middle seat and steer just by leaning towards one side or the other. Worked fine in large ponds. Somebody said "like a motorcycle"... But if you simply lean a motorcycle and don't turn the wheel, it will still go straight... Just sayin'. No, you have to tip the boat. Speaking of motorcycles, ever try this? Ride going straight ahead and push your *left* handlebar forward gently and see which way you turn. Then try with the *right* handlebar. Yeah, that's how she takes every turn... Reverse steer. Add in breaking loose the rear tire and you are starting to have some fun however, if you do though, you are losing time going sideways instead of forward Just reread that... I should say she counter steers when the suspension or body position is off... But it's not the fastest way around the track... What is the fastest way around the track? Ok, the fastest way involves being efficient in the corners. If you are countersteering n a corner, you are standing the bike too high, and the drive wheel is not taking the shortest distance around the corner. In racing terms, you blew out the birm.. It's not efficient to have that back tire way out there cause then it takes time to bring it back... How can you be efficient in the corners? Balance.. Keep both tires in as close to the same radius as the other. You want the front tire pointing as close to the direction of thrust from the rear tire as possible. If you are "countersteering" you are losing forward thrust and burning off forward thrust... Don't countersteer. Try turning the handlebars to the right next time you want to turn right. Do it at about 50 mph. Make sure your insurance is paid up. Can I start to lean first? If so, no problem.. Again, we do not lead with the front end of the bike... we steer with the rear end. The most efficient use of the power is for the front and rear wheel to be lined up, and the rear wheel tracking forward, not sideways... period... draw it out, you understand how to sail, you can get this. Again, countersteering is a common and useful tool, just not for us... Like I say. Get on the street, about 30 mph (so no one dies) and push the right handlebar to make a left turn. Let me know how it works out. How would it work out. I lean left, and push the right bar... no problem Let me know. Make sure you're clear to the right! Oh my God.... |
#94
posted to rec.boats
|
|||
|
|||
A real dirt bike...
On 2/12/2014 8:00 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 17:27:26 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 2/12/2014 5:16 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 13:57:17 -0800, Bill McKee wrote: On 2/12/14, 1:46 PM, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 4:37 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 2/12/2014 4:10 PM, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 3:36 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 2/12/2014 3:05 PM, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 2:47 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 13:59:51 -0500, HanK wrote: On 2/12/2014 11:37 AM, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 11:23 AM, HanK wrote: On 2/12/2014 10:40 AM, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 10:31 AM, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 10:04 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 2/12/2014 9:36 AM, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 9:17 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 2/12/2014 8:09 AM, Poco Loco wrote: On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 20:27:03 -0500, Earl__ wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 2/9/2014 6:25 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Sun, 9 Feb 2014 15:03:40 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: On Sunday, February 9, 2014 4:30:04 PM UTC-6, John H. wrote: On Sun, 9 Feb 2014 13:31:40 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: On Sunday, February 9, 2014 7:31:31 AM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote: I'd love to have one of these... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7mTwM7afQA how about something like this? http://thekneeslider.com/1937-front-...cle-prototype/ Looks like something Moto Guzzi made during the war. "Goose" probably tries something like that too, but this is French, and the French at that time were known to be great tinkerers, with results to match. Yeah, I should have said it looks like something Guzzi *could* have made during the war. Something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cOlS_ShXf4 Here's an idea for Scott: (warning - contains boating content) http://www.elrellano.com/videos_online/8146/barca-a-motor.html No steering unless that rowboat has a bow thruster. That boat is a high technology marvel incorporating 'eyeball sensormatic rotational assist'. Where you look is where you go. A sign on the bow says, "Don't look at women when operating this vessel." Sometimes the sign gets torn away. When I was a kid I had a 12' aluminum boat with a little 3hp outboard. I'd tighten the tension on the steering so the motor wouldn't move, sit in the middle seat and steer just by leaning towards one side or the other. Worked fine in large ponds. Somebody said "like a motorcycle"... But if you simply lean a motorcycle and don't turn the wheel, it will still go straight... Just sayin'. No, you have to tip the boat. Speaking of motorcycles, ever try this? Ride going straight ahead and push your *left* handlebar forward gently and see which way you turn. Then try with the *right* handlebar. Yeah, that's how she takes every turn... Reverse steer. Add in breaking loose the rear tire and you are starting to have some fun however, if you do though, you are losing time going sideways instead of forward Just reread that... I should say she counter steers when the suspension or body position is off... But it's not the fastest way around the track... What is the fastest way around the track? Ok, the fastest way involves being efficient in the corners. If you are countersteering n a corner, you are standing the bike too high, and the drive wheel is not taking the shortest distance around the corner. In racing terms, you blew out the birm.. It's not efficient to have that back tire way out there cause then it takes time to bring it back... How can you be efficient in the corners? Balance.. Keep both tires in as close to the same radius as the other. You want the front tire pointing as close to the direction of thrust from the rear tire as possible. If you are "countersteering" you are losing forward thrust and burning off forward thrust... Geeze. I'll never enjoy a warm summer evening cruise down to the Cape again. :-) Sure you will. Like you said you are not racing... I said before I get the whole thing about getting into a corner and even counter steering. The looser you are, the more you do it too.... but it's still not the most efficient way to make a corner... You guys are all supposed to be sailors.. Draw the thing out and draw out the thrust and resistance lines... you will see what I am talking about... Anyway, I have a good drawing that I can put up later. For now I will say there are a couple other things we do to make the bike corner better. One in particular is to gently pull the front brake in and dip the front end which shortens the turning radius and increases the angle of the front suspension more upright to turn.. (more like a tricycle)... Even dipping the front end a couple inches reduces the bike length by as much as an inch and can change the rake of the front end 8-10 degrees... But again, you are not racing. If I was you I would be countersteering all the way to the beach. I know how good it feels and I wouldn't be "racing" on the street anyway Phew. I was getting worried there. It's sorta hard to steer a 850lb Harley with the back tire. Even if I could, it would probably be the last turn I ever made. Yup... Imagine so. I had times where I slid my Honda into a countersteer slide when I was younger. Never intentionally though It was half the weight of your bike too... Hell, no wonder I did not win every race with my Vette. I was drifting corners at times. The old Laguna Course, turn 2 was always able to go faster than you figured as the apex of the corner started up hill. Loading the suspension and increasing traction. Turn 3 was a very highspeed turn and you drifted it at about 130 mph. This countersteering applies only to two wheel, single track vehicles! This discussion is heading back to the debate we had a while back about traction and what can take a corner faster ... a four wheeled car or a motorcycle. The "rolling cone" analogy Bill brought up applies to four wheeled vehicles where the outside wheels have to turn faster than the inside wheels in a turn. Really doesn't apply to a two wheeled motorcycle. The other thing is that Scott's style and techniques used in moto-cross racing has little to do with riding a street bike down a winding country road. Nope, go to the link I posted and show me which street bike is countersteering there... none of them are.. cause it's faster to track the turn, than drift it.... Amen, to both. My brother, Jim, a former motorcycle cop, will tell you that on city streets the car will win - especially if someone has their sprinkler spraying the road!! He lost a Yamaha police bike that way. But, he said the car was gaining anyway. The radio had alerted enough cops to catch the guy though. |
#95
posted to rec.boats
|
|||
|
|||
A real dirt bike...
On 2/12/2014 11:24 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/12/2014 8:01 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 17:40:16 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 5:17 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 16:14:00 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 3:49 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 15:05:39 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 2:47 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 13:59:51 -0500, HanK wrote: On 2/12/2014 11:37 AM, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 11:23 AM, HanK wrote: On 2/12/2014 10:40 AM, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 10:31 AM, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 10:04 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 2/12/2014 9:36 AM, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 9:17 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 2/12/2014 8:09 AM, Poco Loco wrote: On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 20:27:03 -0500, Earl__ wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 2/9/2014 6:25 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Sun, 9 Feb 2014 15:03:40 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: On Sunday, February 9, 2014 4:30:04 PM UTC-6, John H. wrote: On Sun, 9 Feb 2014 13:31:40 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: On Sunday, February 9, 2014 7:31:31 AM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote: I'd love to have one of these... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7mTwM7afQA how about something like this? http://thekneeslider.com/1937-front-...cle-prototype/ Looks like something Moto Guzzi made during the war. "Goose" probably tries something like that too, but this is French, and the French at that time were known to be great tinkerers, with results to match. Yeah, I should have said it looks like something Guzzi *could* have made during the war. Something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cOlS_ShXf4 Here's an idea for Scott: (warning - contains boating content) http://www.elrellano.com/videos_online/8146/barca-a-motor.html No steering unless that rowboat has a bow thruster. That boat is a high technology marvel incorporating 'eyeball sensormatic rotational assist'. Where you look is where you go. A sign on the bow says, "Don't look at women when operating this vessel." Sometimes the sign gets torn away. When I was a kid I had a 12' aluminum boat with a little 3hp outboard. I'd tighten the tension on the steering so the motor wouldn't move, sit in the middle seat and steer just by leaning towards one side or the other. Worked fine in large ponds. Somebody said "like a motorcycle"... But if you simply lean a motorcycle and don't turn the wheel, it will still go straight... Just sayin'. No, you have to tip the boat. Speaking of motorcycles, ever try this? Ride going straight ahead and push your *left* handlebar forward gently and see which way you turn. Then try with the *right* handlebar. Yeah, that's how she takes every turn... Reverse steer. Add in breaking loose the rear tire and you are starting to have some fun however, if you do though, you are losing time going sideways instead of forward Just reread that... I should say she counter steers when the suspension or body position is off... But it's not the fastest way around the track... What is the fastest way around the track? Ok, the fastest way involves being efficient in the corners. If you are countersteering n a corner, you are standing the bike too high, and the drive wheel is not taking the shortest distance around the corner. In racing terms, you blew out the birm.. It's not efficient to have that back tire way out there cause then it takes time to bring it back... How can you be efficient in the corners? Balance.. Keep both tires in as close to the same radius as the other. You want the front tire pointing as close to the direction of thrust from the rear tire as possible. If you are "countersteering" you are losing forward thrust and burning off forward thrust... Don't countersteer. Try turning the handlebars to the right next time you want to turn right. Do it at about 50 mph. Make sure your insurance is paid up. Can I start to lean first? If so, no problem.. Again, we do not lead with the front end of the bike... we steer with the rear end. The most efficient use of the power is for the front and rear wheel to be lined up, and the rear wheel tracking forward, not sideways... period... draw it out, you understand how to sail, you can get this. Again, countersteering is a common and useful tool, just not for us... Like I say. Get on the street, about 30 mph (so no one dies) and push the right handlebar to make a left turn. Let me know how it works out. How would it work out. I lean left, and push the right bar... no problem Let me know. Make sure you're clear to the right! Oh my God.... OK, John. Try this... Go down the road... and push your right bar down... of course make sure you are clear to the right... Then go down the same road, lean to the left and push down that right bar, and make sure you are clear to the left... do you get that, cause if you don't there is no helping it... |
#96
posted to rec.boats
|
|||
|
|||
A real dirt bike...
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 20:56:20 -0600, Califbill wrote:
Poco Loco wrote: On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 15:02:44 -0800, Bill McKee wrote: On 2/12/14, 2:09 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 16:21:26 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 3:52 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 15:15:41 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 12:35 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 11:44:07 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 11:20 AM, Poco Loco wrote: On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 10:33:01 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 10:06 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 2/12/2014 9:42 AM, Poco Loco wrote: On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 09:06:41 -0500, BAR wrote: In article , __ says... Mr. Luddite wrote: On 2/9/2014 6:25 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Sun, 9 Feb 2014 15:03:40 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: On Sunday, February 9, 2014 4:30:04 PM UTC-6, John H. wrote: On Sun, 9 Feb 2014 13:31:40 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: On Sunday, February 9, 2014 7:31:31 AM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote: I'd love to have one of these... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7mTwM7afQA how about something like this? http://thekneeslider.com/1937-front-...cle-prototype/ Looks like something Moto Guzzi made during the war. "Goose" probably tries something like that too, but this is French, and the French at that time were known to be great tinkerers, with results to match. Yeah, I should have said it looks like something Guzzi *could* have made during the war. Something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cOlS_ShXf4 Here's an idea for Scott: (warning - contains boating content) http://www.elrellano.com/videos_online/8146/barca-a-motor.html No steering unless that rowboat has a bow thruster. Just like a motor cycle, you just lean into the turn to make it go that way. No, leaning doesn't make it turn. Leaning enables the motorcycle to be kept more vertical when turning. Pushing on the handlebar makes you turn. Push left, go left. Push right, go right. Countersteering. Heh. I just mentioned to Scott about that. Those who don't ride will think it's weird. They think it should turn like a car. Yes, counter steering but again, it's not the fastest way around the corner It's the only way around the corner, at speed, on a motorcycle. I am beating myself up and I can't think of any place on the track where counter steering is faster... https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10202016412913497&set=a.10202016402 113227.1073741828.1281248494&type=3&theater Here is Jess setting up for a corner... notice she is turning left, and her bars are slightly left.. If she let her back tire slide out more (blowing the corner) the bike would have to stand back up and the back tire come back in line to get out of the corner... don't know if that makes any sense. I have a video I could find later of two riders me and Jess study. One came though the corner right (her mentor) and the guy behind counter steered through and lost two seconds in the corner... Letting the back tire 'slide out more' is not a method of riding for anyone but dirt bikers. When she initiated the turn to the left, she did it by pushing on the left bar or pulling on the right bar. Once the bike started leaning (and turning) she can slide all she wants. I think what she is doing in the picture is coming out of a turn. So she's pushing on the right bar to straighten the bike up (or pulling on the left bar). Looking at the tracks in the dirt also shows that she's through the turn. That picture is in the first 30 feet of the turn.. and no. She doesn't have to push the left down to initiate the turn. Some turns she comes into airborne and she already has the bars turned in the direction of the turn... I see completely what you guys are talking about. I have had a mc licence since '76 and always thought that way... Until I started training Jess. She comes into a corner and throws her weight over the bike.. but pushes both bars down... the outside bar further... never the inside bar, never let that rear tire get outside of the radius of the front tire...... Just the way it is. Again, if she pushes down on the inside bar, the rear tire kicks outside the radius of the inside tire. now you have thrust pushing askew from the direction of the bike... we calle it "wash out" or "blowing the berm".. draw it out, put arrows for thrust.. You will see... Uh-huh. I just hope Jess, while on pavement going at speed, doesn't ever push left to go right. Something will get broke. OK, let's go from there.. When you are countersteering on the street, by design the thrust of the rear tire and front tire are not in sync with the direction of the turn.. So which tire do you slide? When I am on the street, I do everything in my power *not* to slide! When I still had my bike, I slid both tires. Recovered before the incidence went into disaster. Problem with need for speed and backroads. I slid the front tire once. Scared the **** out of me (almost literally), but I let off the brake quick enough to not go down. Back tire slides aren't that bad if you let it bring you to a stop. It's when you get scared while sliding and let off the brake that you stand a good chance of 'high siding' and going down. I was going way to fast for the road! Kawasaki 350 2 stroke. rotary Valve. Next model up was the Green streak. 90 degree turn, trees on the outside. I had the bike over to the foot pegs and sliding. Missed the outside edge of the road by maybe an inch. Kenny Roberts could not have done better! You're still here, must've done something right! |
#97
posted to rec.boats
|
|||
|
|||
A real dirt bike...
Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 20:56:20 -0600, Califbill wrote: Poco Loco wrote: On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 15:02:44 -0800, Bill McKee wrote: On 2/12/14, 2:09 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 16:21:26 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 3:52 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 15:15:41 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 12:35 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 11:44:07 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 11:20 AM, Poco Loco wrote: On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 10:33:01 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 10:06 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 2/12/2014 9:42 AM, Poco Loco wrote: On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 09:06:41 -0500, BAR wrote: In article , __ says... Mr. Luddite wrote: On 2/9/2014 6:25 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Sun, 9 Feb 2014 15:03:40 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: On Sunday, February 9, 2014 4:30:04 PM UTC-6, John H. wrote: On Sun, 9 Feb 2014 13:31:40 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: On Sunday, February 9, 2014 7:31:31 AM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote: I'd love to have one of these... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7mTwM7afQA how about something like this? http://thekneeslider.com/1937-front-...cle-prototype/ Looks like something Moto Guzzi made during the war. "Goose" probably tries something like that too, but this is French, and the French at that time were known to be great tinkerers, with results to match. Yeah, I should have said it looks like something Guzzi *could* have made during the war. Something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cOlS_ShXf4 Here's an idea for Scott: (warning - contains boating content) http://www.elrellano.com/videos_online/8146/barca-a-motor.html No steering unless that rowboat has a bow thruster. Just like a motor cycle, you just lean into the turn to make it go that way. No, leaning doesn't make it turn. Leaning enables the motorcycle to be kept more vertical when turning. Pushing on the handlebar makes you turn. Push left, go left. Push right, go right. Countersteering. Heh. I just mentioned to Scott about that. Those who don't ride will think it's weird. They think it should turn like a car. Yes, counter steering but again, it's not the fastest way around the corner It's the only way around the corner, at speed, on a motorcycle. I am beating myself up and I can't think of any place on the track where counter steering is faster... https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10202016412913497&set=a.10202016402 113227.1073741828.1281248494&type=3&theater Here is Jess setting up for a corner... notice she is turning left, and her bars are slightly left.. If she let her back tire slide out more (blowing the corner) the bike would have to stand back up and the back tire come back in line to get out of the corner... don't know if that makes any sense. I have a video I could find later of two riders me and Jess study. One came though the corner right (her mentor) and the guy behind counter steered through and lost two seconds in the corner... Letting the back tire 'slide out more' is not a method of riding for anyone but dirt bikers. When she initiated the turn to the left, she did it by pushing on the left bar or pulling on the right bar. Once the bike started leaning (and turning) she can slide all she wants. I think what she is doing in the picture is coming out of a turn. So she's pushing on the right bar to straighten the bike up (or pulling on the left bar). Looking at the tracks in the dirt also shows that she's through the turn. That picture is in the first 30 feet of the turn.. and no. She doesn't have to push the left down to initiate the turn. Some turns she comes into airborne and she already has the bars turned in the direction of the turn... I see completely what you guys are talking about. I have had a mc licence since '76 and always thought that way... Until I started training Jess. She comes into a corner and throws her weight over the bike.. but pushes both bars down... the outside bar further... never the inside bar, never let that rear tire get outside of the radius of the front tire...... Just the way it is. Again, if she pushes down on the inside bar, the rear tire kicks outside the radius of the inside tire. now you have thrust pushing askew from the direction of the bike... we calle it "wash out" or "blowing the berm".. draw it out, put arrows for thrust.. You will see... Uh-huh. I just hope Jess, while on pavement going at speed, doesn't ever push left to go right. Something will get broke. OK, let's go from there.. When you are countersteering on the street, by design the thrust of the rear tire and front tire are not in sync with the direction of the turn.. So which tire do you slide? When I am on the street, I do everything in my power *not* to slide! When I still had my bike, I slid both tires. Recovered before the incidence went into disaster. Problem with need for speed and backroads. I slid the front tire once. Scared the **** out of me (almost literally), but I let off the brake quick enough to not go down. Back tire slides aren't that bad if you let it bring you to a stop. It's when you get scared while sliding and let off the brake that you stand a good chance of 'high siding' and going down. I was going way to fast for the road! Kawasaki 350 2 stroke. rotary Valve. Next model up was the Green streak. 90 degree turn, trees on the outside. I had the bike over to the foot pegs and sliding. Missed the outside edge of the road by maybe an inch. Kenny Roberts could not have done better! You're still here, must've done something right! Really fast guardian angel. |
#98
posted to rec.boats
|
|||
|
|||
A real dirt bike...
Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 20:13:42 -0500, Earl__ wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 2/12/2014 9:36 AM, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 9:17 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 2/12/2014 8:09 AM, Poco Loco wrote: On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 20:27:03 -0500, Earl__ wrote: Mr. Luddite wrote: On 2/9/2014 6:25 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Sun, 9 Feb 2014 15:03:40 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: On Sunday, February 9, 2014 4:30:04 PM UTC-6, John H. wrote: On Sun, 9 Feb 2014 13:31:40 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote: On Sunday, February 9, 2014 7:31:31 AM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote: I'd love to have one of these... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7mTwM7afQA how about something like this? http://thekneeslider.com/1937-front-...cle-prototype/ Looks like something Moto Guzzi made during the war. "Goose" probably tries something like that too, but this is French, and the French at that time were known to be great tinkerers, with results to match. Yeah, I should have said it looks like something Guzzi *could* have made during the war. Something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cOlS_ShXf4 Here's an idea for Scott: (warning - contains boating content) http://www.elrellano.com/videos_online/8146/barca-a-motor.html No steering unless that rowboat has a bow thruster. That boat is a high technology marvel incorporating 'eyeball sensormatic rotational assist'. Where you look is where you go. A sign on the bow says, "Don't look at women when operating this vessel." Sometimes the sign gets torn away. When I was a kid I had a 12' aluminum boat with a little 3hp outboard. I'd tighten the tension on the steering so the motor wouldn't move, sit in the middle seat and steer just by leaning towards one side or the other. Worked fine in large ponds. Somebody said "like a motorcycle"... But if you simply lean a motorcycle and don't turn the wheel, it will still go straight... Just sayin'. No, you have to tip the boat. Speaking of motorcycles, ever try this? Ride going straight ahead and push your *left* handlebar forward gently and see which way you turn. Then try with the *right* handlebar. That only works at higher speeds and I was taught how to ride that way. It was difficult to do at first since it didn't make sense. BTW - VERY gently - just a bit of pressure. Any speed over about 15 mph should show the same result. That's what I meant. When you are crawling along at bicycle speeds you steer accordingly. |
Reply |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
Summer Leftovers- Dirt Cheep | Tall Ship Photos | |||
Dumber than dirt | General | |||
To corporate America, life is dirt cheap | General | |||
sea scooter, e-scooter, golf car, pocket bike, dirt bike, electric vehicle, atv... | Cruising | |||
Vendee Globe virtual following in real time and real winds | Cruising |