Outstanding Video on drug use
 

KC wrote:
On 2/7/2014 10:48 PM, Califbill wrote:
KC wrote:
On 2/7/2014 4:29 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/7/2014 4:17 PM, Califbill wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 2/7/2014 12:39 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 11:19:50 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 10:59:47 -0500, "F.O.A.D."
wrote:

On 2/7/14, 10:50 AM, Tim wrote:
On Friday, February 7, 2014 9:46:00 AM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote:

Yeah, what we have created in this country is a growth industry
for the

privatization of penal institutions. The corporations pressure the

legislators to pass more laws and stiffer sentences so more
people can

be imprisoned for longer periods of time and so the private
slams will

be guaranteed more income. It's a wonderful system and requires
a lot

less brainpower than something that might actually work.



What would you do to handle the drug problem?



I don't claim to have *the* solution, but I do know that creating a
growth industry in prisons for the private sector ain't it. I think
decriminalizing simple possession for personal use would be a good
starting point, though.

I suppose that's for all the drugs up through heroin? I suppose you
disagree with the idea of
marijuana being a stepping stone to the 'better' stuff. So where
would
you draw the line?

Heroin is actually not a really bad 'hard' drug. Lots of heroin
addicts
were functioning members of society. Lots turned to crime because
of the
costs to procure, but heroin may kill you in the end because of
paranoia.
Ray Charles was a heroin addict for years. Lots of other
examples. There
are drugs too nasty to legalize, but the country will not come to
an end
with most drugs available. Alcohol probably causes more deaths
than hard
drugs. Including the drug wars for sales territory. You have a
friend, I
think it was you, who is hooked on OxyContin. Is he still a
functioning
member of society? What the hell is accomplished by sending
someone to
prison for use? Puts their family in the welfare system, costs to
incarcerate, and ruins any prospect for a decent job later. If
they commit
a crime to pay for the drugs, then jail them. But if costs are low
enough,
they will work and pay for the drug, just like alcohol. This was
supposed
to be a free country. We are being controlled more, and observed
more than
a lot of western countries these days. And it is both major parties
responsible, not just one side or the other.

I'm no expert on drugs, and don't have an oxycontin hooked friend, that
I know of. I suppose the
cost of incarceration are more than the costs for emergency OD care, so
stopping the incarceration
may be a good idea. It's obviously not much of a deterrent.


I have a good friend who's daughter got hooked on oxycontin and then
went
to heroin because it's cheaper. I have a niece who has followed the
same
path. Both started as teenagers in high school. Both have been through
rehab, one twice, the other three times. Both have stolen money,
jewelry
and other items from their parents, grandparents, other relatives and
former friends to fund their addictions. Failed marriages, abortions,
and heartbreak for the parents. My 61 year old sister-in-law
(mother of
the niece) is now in therapy and is taking anti-anxiety pills because
she's coming apart emotionally due to her daughter's lifestyle.

Anyone who tells me heroin is "not a really bad hard drug" has a lot of
convincing to do to me.

But is the heroin the problem or the screwed up person using? And if was
more legal, how screwed up would they be? Maybe not need to take up a
life
of crime to pay for the drugs.



Of course heroin is the problem. Both of these people were normal, well
adjusted kids who starting hanging with the wrong people and peer
pressure took over.

Ever see a heroin addict who hasn't had a fix in a while? Ever see what
they will stoop to in order to get their next supply? All rational
thought goes out the window and who they may hurt or affect means
nothing. Bad **** and *much* more difficult to overcome than
alcoholism, IMO.



The people I just kicked out of my house just sat there for the last 5
months doing heroin and pills until the very last day....

And you financially supported them. All that rent money went to drugs!


That, + 6 grand in lawyer bills and another 6 in their bills and the 15
grand we had set aside is gone. Jess was supposed to go to work with one
of the top 15 mens riders in the world this winter and the first WMA pro
womens race is March 9... She was going to apply for her licence and we
were going to make 6 of the 8 WMA Pro races this year and qualify for
rookie of the year... all that is running through the veins of a family of junkies....

Would it not be better for all of us, they died early from their
addispction?

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On 2/8/2014 1:08 AM, Califbill wrote:
KC wrote:
On 2/7/2014 10:48 PM, Califbill wrote:
KC wrote:
On 2/7/2014 4:29 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/7/2014 4:17 PM, Califbill wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 2/7/2014 12:39 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 11:19:50 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 10:59:47 -0500, "F.O.A.D."
wrote:

On 2/7/14, 10:50 AM, Tim wrote:
On Friday, February 7, 2014 9:46:00 AM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote:

Yeah, what we have created in this country is a growth industry
for the

privatization of penal institutions. The corporations pressure the

legislators to pass more laws and stiffer sentences so more
people can

be imprisoned for longer periods of time and so the private
slams will

be guaranteed more income. It's a wonderful system and requires
a lot

less brainpower than something that might actually work.



What would you do to handle the drug problem?



I don't claim to have *the* solution, but I do know that creating a
growth industry in prisons for the private sector ain't it. I think
decriminalizing simple possession for personal use would be a good
starting point, though.

I suppose that's for all the drugs up through heroin? I suppose you
disagree with the idea of
marijuana being a stepping stone to the 'better' stuff. So where
would
you draw the line?

Heroin is actually not a really bad 'hard' drug. Lots of heroin
addicts
were functioning members of society. Lots turned to crime because
of the
costs to procure, but heroin may kill you in the end because of
paranoia.
Ray Charles was a heroin addict for years. Lots of other
examples. There
are drugs too nasty to legalize, but the country will not come to
an end
with most drugs available. Alcohol probably causes more deaths
than hard
drugs. Including the drug wars for sales territory. You have a
friend, I
think it was you, who is hooked on OxyContin. Is he still a
functioning
member of society? What the hell is accomplished by sending
someone to
prison for use? Puts their family in the welfare system, costs to
incarcerate, and ruins any prospect for a decent job later. If
they commit
a crime to pay for the drugs, then jail them. But if costs are low
enough,
they will work and pay for the drug, just like alcohol. This was
supposed
to be a free country. We are being controlled more, and observed
more than
a lot of western countries these days. And it is both major parties
responsible, not just one side or the other.

I'm no expert on drugs, and don't have an oxycontin hooked friend, that
I know of. I suppose the
cost of incarceration are more than the costs for emergency OD care, so
stopping the incarceration
may be a good idea. It's obviously not much of a deterrent.


I have a good friend who's daughter got hooked on oxycontin and then
went
to heroin because it's cheaper. I have a niece who has followed the
same
path. Both started as teenagers in high school. Both have been through
rehab, one twice, the other three times. Both have stolen money,
jewelry
and other items from their parents, grandparents, other relatives and
former friends to fund their addictions. Failed marriages, abortions,
and heartbreak for the parents. My 61 year old sister-in-law
(mother of
the niece) is now in therapy and is taking anti-anxiety pills because
she's coming apart emotionally due to her daughter's lifestyle.

Anyone who tells me heroin is "not a really bad hard drug" has a lot of
convincing to do to me.

But is the heroin the problem or the screwed up person using? And if was
more legal, how screwed up would they be? Maybe not need to take up a
life
of crime to pay for the drugs.



Of course heroin is the problem. Both of these people were normal, well
adjusted kids who starting hanging with the wrong people and peer
pressure took over.

Ever see a heroin addict who hasn't had a fix in a while? Ever see what
they will stoop to in order to get their next supply? All rational
thought goes out the window and who they may hurt or affect means
nothing. Bad **** and *much* more difficult to overcome than
alcoholism, IMO.



The people I just kicked out of my house just sat there for the last 5
months doing heroin and pills until the very last day....

And you financially supported them. All that rent money went to drugs!


That, + 6 grand in lawyer bills and another 6 in their bills and the 15
grand we had set aside is gone. Jess was supposed to go to work with one
of the top 15 mens riders in the world this winter and the first WMA pro
womens race is March 9... She was going to apply for her licence and we
were going to make 6 of the 8 WMA Pro races this year and qualify for
rookie of the year... all that is running through the veins of a family of junkies....

Would it not be better for all of us, they died early from their
addispction?


Would make me happier than a clam...

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On 2/7/2014 10:48 PM, Califbill wrote:
KC wrote:
On 2/7/2014 2:49 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/7/2014 12:39 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 11:19:50 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 10:59:47 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 2/7/14, 10:50 AM, Tim wrote:
On Friday, February 7, 2014 9:46:00 AM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote:

Yeah, what we have created in this country is a growth industry
for the

privatization of penal institutions. The corporations pressure the

legislators to pass more laws and stiffer sentences so more
people can

be imprisoned for longer periods of time and so the private slams
will

be guaranteed more income. It's a wonderful system and requires a
lot

less brainpower than something that might actually work.



What would you do to handle the drug problem?



I don't claim to have *the* solution, but I do know that creating a
growth industry in prisons for the private sector ain't it. I think
decriminalizing simple possession for personal use would be a good
starting point, though.

I suppose that's for all the drugs up through heroin? I suppose you
disagree with the idea of
marijuana being a stepping stone to the 'better' stuff. So where
would you draw the line?

Heroin is actually not a really bad 'hard' drug. Lots of heroin addicts
were functioning members of society. Lots turned to crime because of
the
costs to procure, but heroin may kill you in the end because of
paranoia.
Ray Charles was a heroin addict for years. Lots of other examples.
There
are drugs too nasty to legalize, but the country will not come to an end
with most drugs available. Alcohol probably causes more deaths than
hard
drugs. Including the drug wars for sales territory. You have a
friend, I
think it was you, who is hooked on OxyContin. Is he still a functioning
member of society? What the hell is accomplished by sending someone to
prison for use? Puts their family in the welfare system, costs to
incarcerate, and ruins any prospect for a decent job later. If they
commit
a crime to pay for the drugs, then jail them. But if costs are low
enough,
they will work and pay for the drug, just like alcohol. This was
supposed
to be a free country. We are being controlled more, and observed
more than
a lot of western countries these days. And it is both major parties
responsible, not just one side or the other.

I'm no expert on drugs, and don't have an oxycontin hooked friend,
that I know of. I suppose the
cost of incarceration are more than the costs for emergency OD care,
so stopping the incarceration
may be a good idea. It's obviously not much of a deterrent.


I have a good friend who's daughter got hooked on oxycontin and then
went to heroin because it's cheaper. I have a niece who has followed
the same path. Both started as teenagers in high school. Both have
been through rehab, one twice, the other three times. Both have stolen
money, jewelry and other items from their parents, grandparents, other
relatives and former friends to fund their addictions. Failed
marriages, abortions, and heartbreak for the parents. My 61 year old
sister-in-law (mother of the niece) is now in therapy and is taking
anti-anxiety pills because she's coming apart emotionally due to her
daughter's lifestyle.

Anyone who tells me heroin is "not a really bad hard drug" has a lot of
convincing to do to me.



We are on the same page with that....

It is a bad drug, but an addict can still function. You already admit they
can not kick the habit, so let them get a drug that will let them function,
until they die. Sounds cruel, but why is it the rest of society's job to
take care of them? We have spent trillions on the war on drugs. We lost
the war. Let the wounded die.


I'll go suggest that to my sister-in-law. I am sure it will bring her
some solace and peace of mind.

Do you have any kids?

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On 2/7/2014 4:56 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/7/2014 3:41 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 14:28:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

That's not the problem. The problem is with much more dangerous and
addictive opiates.

The most pervasive opiates these days come from doctors and drug
companies



They say you can get addicted by doing one oxy... I have seen it, it's a
fact...

And they eventually turn to heroin as it's *much* cheaper.

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On 2/8/2014 1:33 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 16:32:09 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Make drug use legal. Hmmm... We'll solve our problems by making
extremely addictive drugs like heroin legal? This country is going
down the tubes fast.

Drugs have been illegal for close to a century and usage has not
changed much. Certainly it goes up and down but not in relation to the
effects of the law.



and ?

Are you suggesting that therefore they should be made legal?

What the hell. May as well decriminalize rape, murder, assault and
virtually every other illegal act as well. They've been around for eons
despite laws against them.

I think there's enough evidence that suggests that pot is relatively
harmless when responsibly used for medical or recreational purposes.
Deaths due to pot overdose are .... zero. You don't find potheads
stealing, robbing or assaulting to get their weed, driven by a physical
addiction.

Not so with the addictive drugs like heroin.

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On 2/8/2014 1:35 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 16:50:53 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:

Bill, addictions don't get to a 'functioning member of society' stage and then remain constant. They
get worse, and worse, until the addict hits his/her bottom. The bottom might be a reckless driving
ticket, or it might be death, or somewhere in between.

At least that's been my experience with addicts.

How many people did you run into in the army who were addicted to
alcohol? I certainly saw plenty in the Navy and CG



I knew many heavy drinkers in the Navy. I was one of them. I know many
heavy drinkers now. I am not one of them, not because I don't like it,
but because as you age it doesn't like you as much. Most drinkers,
including myself never become alcoholics.

Alcoholism, like drug addiction, radically changes how a person thinks
and acts. His/her personality changes. Scientists have mapped areas of
the brain that responsible for cognizant thinking and routine awareness.
The inter-cell transmitters of electrical signals have been destroyed,
often permanently. A recovering alcoholic has to "re-wire" his/her
thought process to avoid relapses. Same with some drug addicts.

A heavy drinker isn't "the" definition of an alcoholic or one addicted
to alcohol. There is much more to it.

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 21:48:21 -0600, Califbill wrote:

KC wrote:
On 2/7/2014 2:49 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/7/2014 12:39 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 11:19:50 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 10:59:47 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 2/7/14, 10:50 AM, Tim wrote:
On Friday, February 7, 2014 9:46:00 AM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote:

Yeah, what we have created in this country is a growth industry
for the

privatization of penal institutions. The corporations pressure the

legislators to pass more laws and stiffer sentences so more
people can

be imprisoned for longer periods of time and so the private slams
will

be guaranteed more income. It's a wonderful system and requires a
lot

less brainpower than something that might actually work.



What would you do to handle the drug problem?



I don't claim to have *the* solution, but I do know that creating a
growth industry in prisons for the private sector ain't it. I think
decriminalizing simple possession for personal use would be a good
starting point, though.

I suppose that's for all the drugs up through heroin? I suppose you
disagree with the idea of
marijuana being a stepping stone to the 'better' stuff. So where
would you draw the line?

Heroin is actually not a really bad 'hard' drug. Lots of heroin addicts
were functioning members of society. Lots turned to crime because of
the
costs to procure, but heroin may kill you in the end because of
paranoia.
Ray Charles was a heroin addict for years. Lots of other examples.
There
are drugs too nasty to legalize, but the country will not come to an end
with most drugs available. Alcohol probably causes more deaths than
hard
drugs. Including the drug wars for sales territory. You have a
friend, I
think it was you, who is hooked on OxyContin. Is he still a functioning
member of society? What the hell is accomplished by sending someone to
prison for use? Puts their family in the welfare system, costs to
incarcerate, and ruins any prospect for a decent job later. If they
commit
a crime to pay for the drugs, then jail them. But if costs are low
enough,
they will work and pay for the drug, just like alcohol. This was
supposed
to be a free country. We are being controlled more, and observed
more than
a lot of western countries these days. And it is both major parties
responsible, not just one side or the other.

I'm no expert on drugs, and don't have an oxycontin hooked friend,
that I know of. I suppose the
cost of incarceration are more than the costs for emergency OD care,
so stopping the incarceration
may be a good idea. It's obviously not much of a deterrent.


I have a good friend who's daughter got hooked on oxycontin and then
went to heroin because it's cheaper. I have a niece who has followed
the same path. Both started as teenagers in high school. Both have
been through rehab, one twice, the other three times. Both have stolen
money, jewelry and other items from their parents, grandparents, other
relatives and former friends to fund their addictions. Failed
marriages, abortions, and heartbreak for the parents. My 61 year old
sister-in-law (mother of the niece) is now in therapy and is taking
anti-anxiety pills because she's coming apart emotionally due to her
daughter's lifestyle.

Anyone who tells me heroin is "not a really bad hard drug" has a lot of
convincing to do to me.



We are on the same page with that....

It is a bad drug, but an addict can still function. You already admit they
can not kick the habit, so let them get a drug that will let them function,
until they die. Sounds cruel, but why is it the rest of society's job to
take care of them? We have spent trillions on the war on drugs. We lost
the war. Let the wounded die.

You need to amend that. "An addict who can still function can still function." At some point they
won't be able to function. Then they become society's burden, whether society likes it or not.

Personally I think we're way too easy on the sellers, distributors, and border crossings. But then
you've got the liberals who think any serious punishment is too much punishment.

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On Fri, 7 Feb 2014 19:27:16 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote:

On Friday, February 7, 2014 6:54:46 PM UTC-6, KC wrote:

It hasn't worked anywhere. Look at Sweden, they are rolling back the

open laws cause it just made things worse.... I am for legalization of

pot, and killing of heroin dealers....period.

From the movie "Red Heat"-



Ivan Danko:
I have car under control.

Art Ridzik:
Yeah, I'm sure they taught you all about cars and the price of insurance at your famous Russian school in Kiev!

Ivan Danko:
In socialist countries, insurance not necessary. State pays for everything.

Art Ridzik:
Yeah? Well, tell me something, Captain. If you've got such a ****ing paradise over there, how come you're up the same creek as we are with heroin and cocaine?

Ivan Danko:
Chinese find way. Right after revolution, they round up all drug dealers, all drug addicts, take them to public square, and shoot them in back of head.

Art Ridzik:
Ah, it'd never work here. ****ing politicians wouldn't go for it.

Ivan Danko:
Shoot them first.


HOOOAAAHH !!!

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 19:56:36 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/7/2014 3:41 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 14:28:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

That's not the problem. The problem is with much more dangerous and
addictive opiates.

The most pervasive opiates these days come from doctors and drug
companies



They say you can get addicted by doing one oxy... I have seen it, it's a
fact...

That could be, if the person gets a little buzz, likes it, and keeps taking it. I've had both the
oxy's contin and codone recently. If actually taken for the pain, there isn't a 'high' that goes
along with it, just a reduction in pain. I think if a person is feeling a 'high', then either they
don't need the pain killer, or they're taking more than necessary.

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On Fri, 7 Feb 2014 19:11:47 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote:

On Friday, February 7, 2014 6:58:03 PM UTC-6, Wayne. B wrote:
On Fri, 7 Feb 2014 14:46:45 -0800 (PST), Tim

That's a good thought, Wayne, but what if the kids parents are stoners?


That happens of course, probably more often than we'd like to think.

Those parents however are probably not the ones concerned about their

kids getting into drugs (unless it's their drugs). :-)


agreed,Wayne. But it can go for lesser than that with two instances. A local gal threw a kegger for her son on his 16th birthday.(obviously bad parenting) And I was really mad at the chaperones at a local prom because a 17 year old showed up wobbling drunk. They kicked the kid out but watched him get in his car and drive away w/o calling the law. (obviously poor judgement for a school!)

Not good at all!

When our school puts on a dance, there is always a cop present along with all the 'volunteer'
teacher chaperones. When I went to high school, we had proms in the school, not off-campus at some
hotel ballroom. It wouldn't bother me a bit to see on-campus proms become the norm again.