Outstanding Video on drug use
 

In article , says...

On Sat, 08 Feb 2014 07:22:44 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/8/2014 1:33 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 16:32:09 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Make drug use legal. Hmmm... We'll solve our problems by making
extremely addictive drugs like heroin legal? This country is going
down the tubes fast.

Drugs have been illegal for close to a century and usage has not
changed much. Certainly it goes up and down but not in relation to the
effects of the law.



and ?

Are you suggesting that therefore they should be made legal?

What the hell. May as well decriminalize rape, murder, assault and
virtually every other illegal act as well. They've been around for eons
despite laws against them.

I think there's enough evidence that suggests that pot is relatively
harmless when responsibly used for medical or recreational purposes.
Deaths due to pot overdose are .... zero. You don't find potheads
stealing, robbing or assaulting to get their weed, driven by a physical
addiction.

Not so with the addictive drugs like heroin.

It is a complicated issue but it is clear the "war on drugs" is not
accomplishing anything but making us the most incarcerated population
in the world.

The attempt to confuse drugs with rape is ridiculous.

Junkies may commit a lot of petty theft but the serious crime (murder)
is ancillary to the dealers, not the users.

People steal to buy all sorts of things and the guys who have guns are
not likely to be junkies stealing for a fix. They would just sell the
gun.

Aren't we still a nation of laws?

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

In article , says...

On 2/7/2014 10:59 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 2/7/14, 10:50 AM, Tim wrote:
On Friday, February 7, 2014 9:46:00 AM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote:

Yeah, what we have created in this country is a growth industry for the

privatization of penal institutions. The corporations pressure the

legislators to pass more laws and stiffer sentences so more people can

be imprisoned for longer periods of time and so the private slams will

be guaranteed more income. It's a wonderful system and requires a lot

less brainpower than something that might actually work.



What would you do to handle the drug problem?



I don't claim to have *the* solution, but I do know that creating a
growth industry in prisons for the private sector ain't it. I think
decriminalizing simple possession for personal use would be a good
starting point, though.


MA already decriminalized pot for adult possession of an ounce or less.

That's not the problem. The problem is with much more dangerous and
addictive opiates.

As previously posted, my suggestion is mandatory drug counseling,
education and rehab if required for minors caught with illegal drugs.
The entire cost of the minor's treatment and education program to be
borne entirely by the kid's parents.

The parents is where I cast the blame.

The sincs of the child shall be bourne by the father.

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On 2/8/2014 2:48 PM, Califbill wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 2/8/2014 1:33 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 16:32:09 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Make drug use legal. Hmmm... We'll solve our problems by making
extremely addictive drugs like heroin legal? This country is going
down the tubes fast.

Drugs have been illegal for close to a century and usage has not
changed much. Certainly it goes up and down but not in relation to the
effects of the law.



and ?

Are you suggesting that therefore they should be made legal?

What the hell. May as well decriminalize rape, murder, assault and
virtually every other illegal act as well. They've been around for eons
despite laws against them.

I think there's enough evidence that suggests that pot is relatively
harmless when responsibly used for medical or recreational purposes.
Deaths due to pot overdose are .... zero. You don't find potheads
stealing, robbing or assaulting to get their weed, driven by a physical addiction.

Not so with the addictive drugs like heroin.

Murder, rape and assault are not crimes against yourself. Same reason I do
not care about gay marriage. Personal choice.



Heroin addicts have a significant impact on others, including
co-workers, friends, family, hospitals, social services and more. We
all pay for the help that many, if not most get.

They need the help. The suppliers/pushers need to be in prison.

Legalizing heroin use doesn't solve a thing.

Pot, I can understand. It's not chemically addictive and is not mind
warping in a permanent way like heroin is.

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On 2/8/2014 2:48 PM, Califbill wrote:

"Mr. Luddite" wrote:


Do you have any kids?

I have 2 daughters and 3 grandaughters. I would help them try to overcome
addiction. Just as you would your kids. But is it society's place to
rescue someone from bad lifestyle choice?

Here's the problem with heroin:

The success rate of detox and rehabilitation programs for heroin addicts
is very low. Only about 15 percent stay clean long term. You would
likely bankrupt yourself trying to get one of your daughters or
grandaughters off it (hypothetical of course) and still not succeed.
Would you be willing to just accept one (or more) of them dying while
living in a cardboard box somewhere because of their chosen "lifestyle"?

I doubt it. But your chances of success are still very low.

Another problem is once addicted, a user who is able to stay off it for
a while and then has a relapse can die from the next "fix". It's a
hideous drug form and is highly addictive. One in four people who try
it once will become permanently addicted *for life* (however long that
is).

The need for the drug causes bankruptcy and homelessness in many cases.
Your comment that heroin addicts can lead a relatively normal and
productive life is simply not true. It's a downward spiral, often
taking many others along for the ride and costing society huge $$.

No, legalizing it isn't the answer.

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On 2/8/2014 6:41 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/8/2014 2:48 PM, Califbill wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 2/8/2014 10:27 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 2/8/14, 7:47 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 19:56:36 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/7/2014 3:41 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 14:28:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"

wrote:

That's not the problem. The problem is with much more dangerous
and
addictive opiates.

The most pervasive opiates these days come from doctors and drug
companies



They say you can get addicted by doing one oxy... I have seen it,
it's a
fact...

That could be, if the person gets a little buzz, likes it, and keeps
taking it. I've had both the
oxy's contin and codone recently. If actually taken for the pain,
there isn't a 'high' that goes
along with it, just a reduction in pain. I think if a person is
feeling a 'high', then either they
don't need the pain killer, or they're taking more than necessary.


It appears as if you are trying to extrapolate universal truths from
your limited, individual experiences with painkillers. Perhaps *you*
didn't feel a "high," or perhaps your "high" was masked by pain, or
perhaps not. But for you to state that if a person is feeling a "high"
from taking a pain killer, then they don't need the painkiller or that
they are taking more than necessary, has little if any basis in
science.




I took one oxycontin pill following oral surgery. The next morning I
flushed the rest of them down the toilet. I was in some degree of pain
but I sure didn't like the spaced out feeling that one little pill gave
me. I am not exactly a small person either.

Do not flush drugs down the toilet! Take to the police station or other
drug drop off points. Contaminates the water supply. How much of this
girls having periods at 9 years old, or even the ADD from the
estrogens and
other crap in the water.


Never thought of that. But I really wonder how much 9 pills flushed
into a 2500 gallon holding tank and then eventually leached into a
leaching field can contaminate the water supply. If it does, the whole
concept of a septic system is questionable to start with.



Yup.. Same here...

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 2/8/2014 2:48 PM, Califbill wrote:

"Mr. Luddite" wrote:


Do you have any kids?

I have 2 daughters and 3 grandaughters. I would help them try to overcome
addiction. Just as you would your kids. But is it society's place to
rescue someone from bad lifestyle choice?

Here's the problem with heroin:

The success rate of detox and rehabilitation programs for heroin addicts
is very low. Only about 15 percent stay clean long term. You would
likely bankrupt yourself trying to get one of your daughters or
grandaughters off it (hypothetical of course) and still not succeed.
Would you be willing to just accept one (or more) of them dying while
living in a cardboard box somewhere because of their chosen "lifestyle"?

I doubt it. But your chances of success are still very low.

Another problem is once addicted, a user who is able to stay off it for a
while and then has a relapse can die from the next "fix". It's a hideous
drug form and is highly addictive. One in four people who try it once
will become permanently addicted *for life* (however long that is).

The need for the drug causes bankruptcy and homelessness in many cases.
Your comment that heroin addicts can lead a relatively normal and
productive life is simply not true. It's a downward spiral, often taking
many others along for the ride and costing society huge $$.

No, legalizing it isn't the answer.

How much better off is my child with all of society paying the tab? Will
she recover? Odds better? If we take most of the profit motive out of
heroin and other drugs, how likely will we have a greater addiction rate
without pushers?

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 2/8/2014 2:48 PM, Califbill wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 2/8/2014 10:27 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 2/8/14, 7:47 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 19:56:36 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/7/2014 3:41 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 14:28:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

That's not the problem. The problem is with much more dangerous and
addictive opiates.

The most pervasive opiates these days come from doctors and drug
companies



They say you can get addicted by doing one oxy... I have seen it, it's a
fact...

That could be, if the person gets a little buzz, likes it, and keeps
taking it. I've had both the
oxy's contin and codone recently. If actually taken for the pain,
there isn't a 'high' that goes
along with it, just a reduction in pain. I think if a person is
feeling a 'high', then either they
don't need the pain killer, or they're taking more than necessary.


It appears as if you are trying to extrapolate universal truths from
your limited, individual experiences with painkillers. Perhaps *you*
didn't feel a "high," or perhaps your "high" was masked by pain, or
perhaps not. But for you to state that if a person is feeling a "high"
from taking a pain killer, then they don't need the painkiller or that
they are taking more than necessary, has little if any basis in science.




I took one oxycontin pill following oral surgery. The next morning I
flushed the rest of them down the toilet. I was in some degree of pain
but I sure didn't like the spaced out feeling that one little pill gave
me. I am not exactly a small person either.

Do not flush drugs down the toilet! Take to the police station or other
drug drop off points. Contaminates the water supply. How much of this
girls having periods at 9 years old, or even the ADD from the estrogens and
other crap in the water.


Never thought of that. But I really wonder how much 9 pills flushed into
a 2500 gallon holding tank and then eventually leached into a leaching
field can contaminate the water supply. If it does, the whole concept
of a septic system is questionable to start with.

It is actually a major problem in a lot of places. Do not know how much
from a septic system gets in to the water supply. The drugs seem to not be
filtered out even in municipal water systems. And those 6 drugs multiplied
by 300+ million consumers is a lot of drugs.

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On 2/8/2014 7:57 PM, Califbill wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 2/8/2014 2:48 PM, Califbill wrote:

"Mr. Luddite" wrote:


Do you have any kids?

I have 2 daughters and 3 grandaughters. I would help them try to overcome
addiction. Just as you would your kids. But is it society's place to
rescue someone from bad lifestyle choice?

Here's the problem with heroin:

The success rate of detox and rehabilitation programs for heroin addicts
is very low. Only about 15 percent stay clean long term. You would
likely bankrupt yourself trying to get one of your daughters or
grandaughters off it (hypothetical of course) and still not succeed.
Would you be willing to just accept one (or more) of them dying while
living in a cardboard box somewhere because of their chosen "lifestyle"?

I doubt it. But your chances of success are still very low.

Another problem is once addicted, a user who is able to stay off it for a
while and then has a relapse can die from the next "fix". It's a hideous
drug form and is highly addictive. One in four people who try it once
will become permanently addicted *for life* (however long that is).

The need for the drug causes bankruptcy and homelessness in many cases.
Your comment that heroin addicts can lead a relatively normal and
productive life is simply not true. It's a downward spiral, often taking
many others along for the ride and costing society huge $$.

No, legalizing it isn't the answer.

How much better off is my child with all of society paying the tab? Will
she recover? Odds better? If we take most of the profit motive out of
heroin and other drugs, how likely will we have a greater addiction rate
without pushers?



Again, legalize it and one in four people who try it once
will become permanently addicted *for life*. Is that smart?

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On Sat, 8 Feb 2014 18:30:49 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article , says...

On Fri, 7 Feb 2014 19:11:47 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote:

On Friday, February 7, 2014 6:58:03 PM UTC-6, Wayne. B wrote:
On Fri, 7 Feb 2014 14:46:45 -0800 (PST), Tim

That's a good thought, Wayne, but what if the kids parents are stoners?


That happens of course, probably more often than we'd like to think.

Those parents however are probably not the ones concerned about their

kids getting into drugs (unless it's their drugs). :-)


agreed,Wayne. But it can go for lesser than that with two instances. A local gal threw a kegger for her son on his 16th birthday.(obviously bad parenting) And I was really mad at the chaperones at a local prom because a 17 year old showed up wobbling drunk. They kicked the kid out but watched him get in his car and drive away w/o calling the law. (obviously poor judgement for a school!)

Not good at all!

When our school puts on a dance, there is always a cop present along with all the 'volunteer'
teacher chaperones. When I went to high school, we had proms in the school, not off-campus at some
hotel ballroom. It wouldn't bother me a bit to see on-campus proms become the norm again.

My Prom was at the O-Club at Fort Belvior on a Monday night. Funniest thing was a guy, Matt
Smith, drove up to the front door and pulled into one of the General Officers reserved
parking spaces across from the main enterance. He got out of his car, walked around the car
and opened the door for his date to get out and proceeded to walk in. The Principal was out
front and told him he couldn't park there and he had to go park in the big lot. He told the
principal to call the MP's and ask them if he needed to move his vehicle. His dad was a one-
start Army general and the car had the star next to the sticker. I got to watch the whole
event while walking in from the big parking lot and just laughed.

Funny!

That club used to have a great Friday night seafood buffet. I'll have to give them a call and see if
they still do.

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On Sat, 8 Feb 2014 15:20:10 -0800 (PST), True North wrote:

There was nothing wrong with my post, Johnny.
I was just asking a simple question that you seem to be very uncomfortable with.

Don, the correcting of your erroneous assumptions and grammar/spelling is not a comfort indicator.