Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On 2/7/2014 4:17 PM, Califbill wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 2/7/2014 12:39 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 11:19:50 -0600, Califbill wrote:

Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 10:59:47 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 2/7/14, 10:50 AM, Tim wrote:
On Friday, February 7, 2014 9:46:00 AM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote:

Yeah, what we have created in this country is a growth industry for the

privatization of penal institutions. The corporations pressure the

legislators to pass more laws and stiffer sentences so more people can

be imprisoned for longer periods of time and so the private slams will

be guaranteed more income. It's a wonderful system and requires a lot

less brainpower than something that might actually work.



What would you do to handle the drug problem?



I don't claim to have *the* solution, but I do know that creating a
growth industry in prisons for the private sector ain't it. I think
decriminalizing simple possession for personal use would be a good
starting point, though.

I suppose that's for all the drugs up through heroin? I suppose you
disagree with the idea of
marijuana being a stepping stone to the 'better' stuff. So where would
you draw the line?

Heroin is actually not a really bad 'hard' drug. Lots of heroin addicts
were functioning members of society. Lots turned to crime because of the
costs to procure, but heroin may kill you in the end because of paranoia.
Ray Charles was a heroin addict for years. Lots of other examples. There
are drugs too nasty to legalize, but the country will not come to an end
with most drugs available. Alcohol probably causes more deaths than hard
drugs. Including the drug wars for sales territory. You have a friend, I
think it was you, who is hooked on OxyContin. Is he still a functioning
member of society? What the hell is accomplished by sending someone to
prison for use? Puts their family in the welfare system, costs to
incarcerate, and ruins any prospect for a decent job later. If they commit
a crime to pay for the drugs, then jail them. But if costs are low enough,
they will work and pay for the drug, just like alcohol. This was supposed
to be a free country. We are being controlled more, and observed more than
a lot of western countries these days. And it is both major parties
responsible, not just one side or the other.

I'm no expert on drugs, and don't have an oxycontin hooked friend, that
I know of. I suppose the
cost of incarceration are more than the costs for emergency OD care, so
stopping the incarceration
may be a good idea. It's obviously not much of a deterrent.


I have a good friend who's daughter got hooked on oxycontin and then went
to heroin because it's cheaper. I have a niece who has followed the same
path. Both started as teenagers in high school. Both have been through
rehab, one twice, the other three times. Both have stolen money, jewelry
and other items from their parents, grandparents, other relatives and
former friends to fund their addictions. Failed marriages, abortions,
and heartbreak for the parents. My 61 year old sister-in-law (mother of
the niece) is now in therapy and is taking anti-anxiety pills because
she's coming apart emotionally due to her daughter's lifestyle.

Anyone who tells me heroin is "not a really bad hard drug" has a lot of
convincing to do to me.

But is the heroin the problem or the screwed up person using? And if was
more legal, how screwed up would they be? Maybe not need to take up a life
of crime to pay for the drugs.


I think you are just way too far detached from the situation to
understand... Not trying to be an ass, but just by your tone and
comments, I can see that.

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On 2/7/2014 4:29 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/7/2014 4:17 PM, Califbill wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 2/7/2014 12:39 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 11:19:50 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 10:59:47 -0500, "F.O.A.D."
wrote:

On 2/7/14, 10:50 AM, Tim wrote:
On Friday, February 7, 2014 9:46:00 AM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote:

Yeah, what we have created in this country is a growth industry
for the

privatization of penal institutions. The corporations pressure the

legislators to pass more laws and stiffer sentences so more
people can

be imprisoned for longer periods of time and so the private
slams will

be guaranteed more income. It's a wonderful system and requires
a lot

less brainpower than something that might actually work.



What would you do to handle the drug problem?



I don't claim to have *the* solution, but I do know that creating a
growth industry in prisons for the private sector ain't it. I think
decriminalizing simple possession for personal use would be a good
starting point, though.

I suppose that's for all the drugs up through heroin? I suppose you
disagree with the idea of
marijuana being a stepping stone to the 'better' stuff. So where
would
you draw the line?

Heroin is actually not a really bad 'hard' drug. Lots of heroin
addicts
were functioning members of society. Lots turned to crime because
of the
costs to procure, but heroin may kill you in the end because of
paranoia.
Ray Charles was a heroin addict for years. Lots of other
examples. There
are drugs too nasty to legalize, but the country will not come to
an end
with most drugs available. Alcohol probably causes more deaths
than hard
drugs. Including the drug wars for sales territory. You have a
friend, I
think it was you, who is hooked on OxyContin. Is he still a
functioning
member of society? What the hell is accomplished by sending
someone to
prison for use? Puts their family in the welfare system, costs to
incarcerate, and ruins any prospect for a decent job later. If
they commit
a crime to pay for the drugs, then jail them. But if costs are low
enough,
they will work and pay for the drug, just like alcohol. This was
supposed
to be a free country. We are being controlled more, and observed
more than
a lot of western countries these days. And it is both major parties
responsible, not just one side or the other.

I'm no expert on drugs, and don't have an oxycontin hooked friend, that
I know of. I suppose the
cost of incarceration are more than the costs for emergency OD care, so
stopping the incarceration
may be a good idea. It's obviously not much of a deterrent.


I have a good friend who's daughter got hooked on oxycontin and then
went
to heroin because it's cheaper. I have a niece who has followed the
same
path. Both started as teenagers in high school. Both have been through
rehab, one twice, the other three times. Both have stolen money,
jewelry
and other items from their parents, grandparents, other relatives and
former friends to fund their addictions. Failed marriages, abortions,
and heartbreak for the parents. My 61 year old sister-in-law
(mother of
the niece) is now in therapy and is taking anti-anxiety pills because
she's coming apart emotionally due to her daughter's lifestyle.

Anyone who tells me heroin is "not a really bad hard drug" has a lot of
convincing to do to me.

But is the heroin the problem or the screwed up person using? And if was
more legal, how screwed up would they be? Maybe not need to take up a
life
of crime to pay for the drugs.



Of course heroin is the problem. Both of these people were normal, well
adjusted kids who starting hanging with the wrong people and peer
pressure took over.

Ever see a heroin addict who hasn't had a fix in a while? Ever see what
they will stoop to in order to get their next supply? All rational
thought goes out the window and who they may hurt or affect means
nothing. Bad **** and *much* more difficult to overcome than
alcoholism, IMO.



The people I just kicked out of my house just sat there for the last 5
months doing heroin and pills until the very last day....

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On 2/7/2014 2:01 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 11:19:50 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

Heroin is actually not a really bad 'hard' drug.

===

My oldest son once came home and said something like that. I told
him it was the stupidest thing I'd ever heard him say. The problem
with heroin is its extraordinarily addictive quality that never seems
to let go once a user is hooked.


Jessi and I won't do any opiate, even for pain. She knows... She did one
from a doctor a year ago and still swears she thinks about how great it
felt, even now..... because of that and seeing so many of our friends in
Essex go down the tubes over it, she won't even do pain killers for
injury... me either...

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On 2/7/2014 4:32 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/7/2014 4:17 PM, Califbill wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 2/7/2014 12:19 PM, Califbill wrote:
Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 10:59:47 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 2/7/14, 10:50 AM, Tim wrote:
On Friday, February 7, 2014 9:46:00 AM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote:

Yeah, what we have created in this country is a growth industry
for the

privatization of penal institutions. The corporations pressure the

legislators to pass more laws and stiffer sentences so more
people can

be imprisoned for longer periods of time and so the private
slams will

be guaranteed more income. It's a wonderful system and requires
a lot

less brainpower than something that might actually work.



What would you do to handle the drug problem?



I don't claim to have *the* solution, but I do know that creating a
growth industry in prisons for the private sector ain't it. I think
decriminalizing simple possession for personal use would be a good
starting point, though.

I suppose that's for all the drugs up through heroin? I suppose you
disagree with the idea of
marijuana being a stepping stone to the 'better' stuff. So where
would you draw the line?

Heroin is actually not a really bad 'hard' drug. Lots of heroin
addicts
were functioning members of society. Lots turned to crime because
of the
costs to procure, but heroin may kill you in the end because of
paranoia.
Ray Charles was a heroin addict for years. Lots of other examples.
There
are drugs too nasty to legalize, but the country will not come to an
end
with most drugs available. Alcohol probably causes more deaths than
hard
drugs. Including the drug wars for sales territory. You have a
friend, I
think it was you, who is hooked on OxyContin. Is he still a
functioning
member of society? What the hell is accomplished by sending someone to
prison for use? Puts their family in the welfare system, costs to
incarcerate, and ruins any prospect for a decent job later. If they
commit
a crime to pay for the drugs, then jail them. But if costs are low
enough,
they will work and pay for the drug, just like alcohol. This was
supposed
to be a free country. We are being controlled more, and observed
more than
a lot of western countries these days. And it is both major parties
responsible, not just one side or the other.



Bill, that's about the dumbest post I've seen here in a long time.

Maybe. But what we have is not working. Make drug use legal. But no
society money to take care of addicts. Your family takes care of you or
you die.



Make drug use legal. Hmmm... We'll solve our problems by making
extremely addictive drugs like heroin legal? This country is going
down the tubes fast.



It hasn't worked anywhere. Look at Sweden, they are rolling back the
open laws cause it just made things worse.... I am for legalization of
pot, and killing of heroin dealers....period.

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On 2/7/2014 3:41 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 14:28:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

That's not the problem. The problem is with much more dangerous and
addictive opiates.

The most pervasive opiates these days come from doctors and drug
companies



They say you can get addicted by doing one oxy... I have seen it, it's a
fact...

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On Fri, 7 Feb 2014 14:46:45 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

On Friday, February 7, 2014 11:42:42 AM UTC-6, Wayne. B wrote:

There's no clinical reason for it to be considered a "stepping stone"

but it does bring kids into contact with the drug culture in general,

and that is not a good thing. Best thing for parents is to let their

views be firmly known, and to keep track of their friends. "Friends"

are where a lot of the mischief starts. Make sure the kids are kept

occupied with wholesome activities and reward them for success in

those endeavors. A bit of luck helps also.



That's a good thought, Wayne, but what if the kids parents are stoners?


===

That happens of course, probably more often than we'd like to think.
Those parents however are probably not the ones concerned about their
kids getting into drugs (unless it's their drugs). :-)

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 13:20:07 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 11:19:50 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

Heroin is actually not a really bad 'hard' drug.

===

My oldest son once came home and said something like that. I told
him it was the stupidest thing I'd ever heard him say. The problem
with heroin is its extraordinarily addictive quality that never seems
to let go once a user is hooked.

True on the addiction. But a heroin addict can lead a productive life.
Now we just have subsidized heroin addiction, free methadone.

===

Have you ever seen methadone users waiting outside a clinic for it to
open? I have. They look like walking dead, all zoned out with no
life to their eyes or expression. Not a good way to go through life.
It's basically trading one addiction for another and apparently heroin
is a much better high.

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 16:59:47 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:

See my response earlier. Oh hell, I'll post it again. This is what is taught in Fairfax County.

Family Life Education
Program Overview

===

I'm OK with that as far as it goes but the emphasis on abstinence,
especially for older kids, is probably wishful thinking. Many of them
are already, or soon will be, in "committed" relationships and need
good solid birth control and disease prevention information more than
anything else. It's largely a waste of time to preach abstinence to a
bunch of raging hormones and it can cast the credibility of the whole
program into doubt.

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On 2/7/2014 5:38 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
Califbill wrote:
Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 15:17:11 -0600, Califbill wrote:

"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 2/7/2014 12:39 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 11:19:50 -0600, Califbill wrote:

Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 10:59:47 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 2/7/14, 10:50 AM, Tim wrote:
On Friday, February 7, 2014 9:46:00 AM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote:

Yeah, what we have created in this country is a growth industry for the

privatization of penal institutions. The corporations pressure the

legislators to pass more laws and stiffer sentences so more people can

be imprisoned for longer periods of time and so the private slams will

be guaranteed more income. It's a wonderful system and requires a lot

less brainpower than something that might actually work.



What would you do to handle the drug problem?



I don't claim to have *the* solution, but I do know that creating a
growth industry in prisons for the private sector ain't it. I think
decriminalizing simple possession for personal use would be a good
starting point, though.

I suppose that's for all the drugs up through heroin? I suppose you
disagree with the idea of
marijuana being a stepping stone to the 'better' stuff. So where would
you draw the line?

Heroin is actually not a really bad 'hard' drug. Lots of heroin addicts
were functioning members of society. Lots turned to crime because of the
costs to procure, but heroin may kill you in the end because of paranoia.
Ray Charles was a heroin addict for years. Lots of other examples. There
are drugs too nasty to legalize, but the country will not come to an end
with most drugs available. Alcohol probably causes more deaths than hard
drugs. Including the drug wars for sales territory. You have a friend, I
think it was you, who is hooked on OxyContin. Is he still a functioning
member of society? What the hell is accomplished by sending someone to
prison for use? Puts their family in the welfare system, costs to
incarcerate, and ruins any prospect for a decent job later. If they commit
a crime to pay for the drugs, then jail them. But if costs are low enough,
they will work and pay for the drug, just like alcohol. This was supposed
to be a free country. We are being controlled more, and observed more than
a lot of western countries these days. And it is both major parties
responsible, not just one side or the other.

I'm no expert on drugs, and don't have an oxycontin hooked friend, that
I know of. I suppose the
cost of incarceration are more than the costs for emergency OD care, so
stopping the incarceration
may be a good idea. It's obviously not much of a deterrent.


I have a good friend who's daughter got hooked on oxycontin and then went
to heroin because it's cheaper. I have a niece who has followed the same
path. Both started as teenagers in high school. Both have been through
rehab, one twice, the other three times. Both have stolen money, jewelry
and other items from their parents, grandparents, other relatives and
former friends to fund their addictions. Failed marriages, abortions,
and heartbreak for the parents. My 61 year old sister-in-law (mother of
the niece) is now in therapy and is taking anti-anxiety pills because
she's coming apart emotionally due to her daughter's lifestyle.

Anyone who tells me heroin is "not a really bad hard drug" has a lot of
convincing to do to me.

But is the heroin the problem or the screwed up person using? And if was
more legal, how screwed up would they be? Maybe not need to take up a life
of crime to pay for the drugs.

Bill, addictions don't get to a 'functioning member of society' stage and
then remain constant. They
get worse, and worse, until the addict hits his/her bottom. The bottom
might be a reckless driving
ticket, or it might be death, or somewhere in between.

At least that's been my experience with addicts.

Then addiction is finished.

Humanitarianism expressed by those on the far right always impresses me.

It's called reality. Something you folks in "la la land" are not
familiar with.

Outstanding Video on drug use
 

On 2/7/2014 8:21 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 16:59:47 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:

See my response earlier. Oh hell, I'll post it again. This is what is taught in Fairfax County.

Family Life Education
Program Overview

===

I'm OK with that as far as it goes but the emphasis on abstinence,
especially for older kids, is probably wishful thinking. Many of them
are already, or soon will be, in "committed" relationships and need
good solid birth control and disease prevention information more than
anything else. It's largely a waste of time to preach abstinence to a
bunch of raging hormones and it can cast the credibility of the whole
program into doubt.



I agree with all that.

There was a time however when that type of education came primarily from
your parents, supplemented by "health" and/or science classes in schools
that covered all the clinical details but none of the emotional issues.
Combined, they were effective.

I guess we have to question what kind of teenage activities are
considered "normal" today. If having sex with every girlfriend that
comes along is now "normal" and, in the event of an inadvertent
pregnancy, there's always the abortion clinc down the street, then I
guess I really am a luddite.

My old man spent time with me as a young, hormone filled teenager who
was starting to date frequently. He talked about the need for taking
precautions ... basically rubbers at that time. Few teenage girls were
"on the pill" back then. He talked about responsibility which extended
to that which I had for the girls involved and how important the
ramifications of our actions could be.
Most of all however, he emphasized having respect for women in general
and particularly the young women I was seeing. Without having to be
told it was clearly understood that if I treated girls badly or
irresponsibly, I'd also be answering to him. It wasn't a threat in
anyway. It was perfectly normal coming from him.

He never preached abstinence. He was too smart to do that. He just
tried to instill a more mature picture of how I should be considering
the actions and responsibilities of whatever activities I engaged in
with the fairer sex. I still have a lot of respect for his approach.

He ended it with, "When the right one comes along, you'll know it."

He was correct.