On 1/21/2014 5:16 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 13:34:31 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:

On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 10:27:40 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/21/2014 10:11 AM, Hank wrote:
On 1/21/2014 9:25 AM, amdx wrote:

How else would you do it?


According to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, 13 percent of
residential electrical energy use is for lighting.

The same agency states that the US average monthly bill for residential
electricity for June, July and August of 2013 was $395. Seems a
little high to me, but again, it's the average for the whole nation.

So, assuming those numbers are close, 13 percent of $395 is $51.25.

Switching to LED lighting that consumes a fraction of the power would
have a serious impact on that cost. So, Hank's numbers don't sound
totally out of the ballpark.


My electric bills for the past year:


Payment Date Payment Amount
01/17/2014 $142.69
12/16/2013 $119.33
11/18/2013 $112.94
10/16/2013 $123.35
09/16/2013 $146.15
08/30/2013 $139.61
08/02/2013 $174.59
06/28/2013 $133.67
06/05/2013 $89.89
04/29/2013 $99.16
04/29/2013 $107.83
04/01/2013 $100.91

Average is $124.18. Wow. You've improved my disposition immensely with that post!

Do you also have a water bill and a gas bill? Add those to the
electric bill for an apples to apples comparison.


Apples to apples of what? We were talking about electricity costs and
specifically the cost for lighting.

"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 1/21/2014 5:16 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 13:34:31 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:

On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 10:27:40 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/21/2014 10:11 AM, Hank wrote:
On 1/21/2014 9:25 AM, amdx wrote:

How else would you do it?


According to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, 13 percent of
residential electrical energy use is for lighting.

The same agency states that the US average monthly bill for residential
electricity for June, July and August of 2013 was $395. Seems a
little high to me, but again, it's the average for the whole nation.

So, assuming those numbers are close, 13 percent of $395 is $51.25.

Switching to LED lighting that consumes a fraction of the power would
have a serious impact on that cost. So, Hank's numbers don't sound
totally out of the ballpark.


My electric bills for the past year:


Payment Date Payment Amount
01/17/2014 $142.69
12/16/2013 $119.33
11/18/2013 $112.94
10/16/2013 $123.35
09/16/2013 $146.15
08/30/2013 $139.61
08/02/2013 $174.59
06/28/2013 $133.67
06/05/2013 $89.89
04/29/2013 $99.16
04/29/2013 $107.83
04/01/2013 $100.91

Average is $124.18. Wow. You've improved my disposition immensely with that post!

Do you also have a water bill and a gas bill? Add those to the
electric bill for an apples to apples comparison.


Apples to apples of what? We were talking about electricity costs and
specifically the cost for lighting.

If you have more people around or home more, the water usage goes up, as
well as gas.

On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 19:48:56 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 19:15:58 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 1/21/2014 5:16 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 13:34:31 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:

On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 10:27:40 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/21/2014 10:11 AM, Hank wrote:
On 1/21/2014 9:25 AM, amdx wrote:

How else would you do it?


According to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, 13 percent of
residential electrical energy use is for lighting.

The same agency states that the US average monthly bill for residential
electricity for June, July and August of 2013 was $395. Seems a
little high to me, but again, it's the average for the whole nation.

So, assuming those numbers are close, 13 percent of $395 is $51.25.

Switching to LED lighting that consumes a fraction of the power would
have a serious impact on that cost. So, Hank's numbers don't sound
totally out of the ballpark.


My electric bills for the past year:


Payment Date Payment Amount
01/17/2014 $142.69
12/16/2013 $119.33
11/18/2013 $112.94
10/16/2013 $123.35
09/16/2013 $146.15
08/30/2013 $139.61
08/02/2013 $174.59
06/28/2013 $133.67
06/05/2013 $89.89
04/29/2013 $99.16
04/29/2013 $107.83
04/01/2013 $100.91

Average is $124.18. Wow. You've improved my disposition immensely with that post!

Do you also have a water bill and a gas bill? Add those to the
electric bill for an apples to apples comparison.


Apples to apples of what? We were talking about electricity costs and
specifically the cost for lighting.


If all he posts is the dollar total of his bill, we need to know what
is in that bill to have it mean anything.
If he is heating everything with nat gas and the city is pumping his
water, he should have a low electric bill.

Nationally I'm sure there are many in the same situation. I don't pump my own water and I heat with
natural gas. But so do millions of other who figure into the 'US average'.

On 1/21/2014 10:09 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 21:45:51 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:


Nationally I'm sure there are many in the same situation. I don't pump my own water and I heat with
natural gas. But so do millions of other who figure into the 'US average'.

Those must be the ones who "use 30% of their electricity on lights"
(or whatever number you want to use.

I would also believe it is city thinking that most people have nat gas
coming to their house. When I was in Maryland, the gas line stopped
about 10 miles outside the beltway going South.
They may have expanded that by now.



I think you've missed something Gregg. Where did natural gas come into
the discussion?

Also, nobody said anybody uses 30% of their electricity on lights.
I offered a stat that said *13%* of residential electricity is used for
lighting.

On 1/21/2014 10:15 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/21/2014 10:09 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 21:45:51 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:


Nationally I'm sure there are many in the same situation. I don't
pump my own water and I heat with
natural gas. But so do millions of other who figure into the 'US
average'.

Those must be the ones who "use 30% of their electricity on lights"
(or whatever number you want to use.

I would also believe it is city thinking that most people have nat gas
coming to their house. When I was in Maryland, the gas line stopped
about 10 miles outside the beltway going South.
They may have expanded that by now.



I think you've missed something Gregg. Where did natural gas come into
the discussion?

Also, nobody said anybody uses 30% of their electricity on lights.
I offered a stat that said *13%* of residential electricity is used for
lighting.


He doesn't need lighting. He has good night vision. I guess he doesn't
get the point that some of us need light to see at night and welcome the
savings LED lighting affords us.

On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 22:27:20 -0500, Hank wrote:

On 1/21/2014 10:15 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/21/2014 10:09 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 21:45:51 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:


Nationally I'm sure there are many in the same situation. I don't
pump my own water and I heat with
natural gas. But so do millions of other who figure into the 'US
average'.

Those must be the ones who "use 30% of their electricity on lights"
(or whatever number you want to use.

I would also believe it is city thinking that most people have nat gas
coming to their house. When I was in Maryland, the gas line stopped
about 10 miles outside the beltway going South.
They may have expanded that by now.



I think you've missed something Gregg. Where did natural gas come into
the discussion?

Also, nobody said anybody uses 30% of their electricity on lights.
I offered a stat that said *13%* of residential electricity is used for
lighting.


He doesn't need lighting. He has good night vision. I guess he doesn't
get the point that some of us need light to see at night and welcome the
savings LED lighting affords us.

With SIGLITE Night Sights, who needs light?

On 1/22/2014 9:08 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 22:27:20 -0500, Hank wrote:

On 1/21/2014 10:15 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/21/2014 10:09 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 21:45:51 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:


Nationally I'm sure there are many in the same situation. I don't
pump my own water and I heat with
natural gas. But so do millions of other who figure into the 'US
average'.

Those must be the ones who "use 30% of their electricity on lights"
(or whatever number you want to use.

I would also believe it is city thinking that most people have nat gas
coming to their house. When I was in Maryland, the gas line stopped
about 10 miles outside the beltway going South.
They may have expanded that by now.



I think you've missed something Gregg. Where did natural gas come into
the discussion?

Also, nobody said anybody uses 30% of their electricity on lights.
I offered a stat that said *13%* of residential electricity is used for
lighting.


He doesn't need lighting. He has good night vision. I guess he doesn't
get the point that some of us need light to see at night and welcome the
savings LED lighting affords us.

With SIGLITE Night Sights, who needs light?

Get a good lawyer before you say something like that under oath.

On 1/21/2014 11:24 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 22:27:20 -0500, Hank wrote:

On 1/21/2014 10:15 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/21/2014 10:09 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 21:45:51 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:


Nationally I'm sure there are many in the same situation. I don't
pump my own water and I heat with
natural gas. But so do millions of other who figure into the 'US
average'.

Those must be the ones who "use 30% of their electricity on lights"
(or whatever number you want to use.

I would also believe it is city thinking that most people have nat gas
coming to their house. When I was in Maryland, the gas line stopped
about 10 miles outside the beltway going South.
They may have expanded that by now.



I think you've missed something Gregg. Where did natural gas come into
the discussion?

Also, nobody said anybody uses 30% of their electricity on lights.
I offered a stat that said *13%* of residential electricity is used for
lighting.


He doesn't need lighting. He has good night vision. I guess he doesn't
get the point that some of us need light to see at night and welcome the
savings LED lighting affords us.

I don't need light when I am not there.
I guess you missed that part.

If you insist on lighting up empty rooms and the perimeter of your
house when nothing is there. I guess you are pitching in to use a more
efficient light source but you are still polluting the sky with
unwanted light.

http://pollutionfacts.org/content/light-pollution-facts

Hey, nobody's perfect. Cept you, maybe.

On 1/21/14, 11:24 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 22:27:20 -0500, Hank wrote:

On 1/21/2014 10:15 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/21/2014 10:09 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 21:45:51 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:


Nationally I'm sure there are many in the same situation. I don't
pump my own water and I heat with
natural gas. But so do millions of other who figure into the 'US
average'.

Those must be the ones who "use 30% of their electricity on lights"
(or whatever number you want to use.

I would also believe it is city thinking that most people have nat gas
coming to their house. When I was in Maryland, the gas line stopped
about 10 miles outside the beltway going South.
They may have expanded that by now.



I think you've missed something Gregg. Where did natural gas come into
the discussion?

Also, nobody said anybody uses 30% of their electricity on lights.
I offered a stat that said *13%* of residential electricity is used for
lighting.


He doesn't need lighting. He has good night vision. I guess he doesn't
get the point that some of us need light to see at night and welcome the
savings LED lighting affords us.

I don't need light when I am not there.
I guess you missed that part.

If you insist on lighting up empty rooms and the perimeter of your
house when nothing is there. I guess you are pitching in to use a more
efficient light source but you are still polluting the sky with
unwanted light.

http://pollutionfacts.org/content/light-pollution-facts


We don't have street lights in our little subdivision. In fact, most of
the residential neighborhoods in our county are sans street lights. So
many people keep a couple of lights burning outside at night. Maybe it
is a holdover from the days when mankind kept a fire burning at night
for warmth, a little light and to ward off those dinosaurs that roamed
the earth back then.

I am going to keep an eye out for some LED bulbs with small bases that
look decent and will fit in our outdoor lighting fixtures. I haven't
seen any at Home Despot or Lowes yet, but they are available via mail order.

Oh, we have a couple of LED nightlights in the house. Keeps me,
especially, from tripping over the cats.

On 1/22/2014 7:00 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 1/21/14, 11:24 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 22:27:20 -0500, Hank wrote:

On 1/21/2014 10:15 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/21/2014 10:09 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 21:45:51 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:


Nationally I'm sure there are many in the same situation. I don't
pump my own water and I heat with
natural gas. But so do millions of other who figure into the 'US
average'.

Those must be the ones who "use 30% of their electricity on lights"
(or whatever number you want to use.

I would also believe it is city thinking that most people have nat gas
coming to their house. When I was in Maryland, the gas line stopped
about 10 miles outside the beltway going South.
They may have expanded that by now.



I think you've missed something Gregg. Where did natural gas come into
the discussion?

Also, nobody said anybody uses 30% of their electricity on lights.
I offered a stat that said *13%* of residential electricity is used for
lighting.


He doesn't need lighting. He has good night vision. I guess he doesn't
get the point that some of us need light to see at night and welcome the
savings LED lighting affords us.

I don't need light when I am not there.
I guess you missed that part.

If you insist on lighting up empty rooms and the perimeter of your
house when nothing is there. I guess you are pitching in to use a more
efficient light source but you are still polluting the sky with
unwanted light.

http://pollutionfacts.org/content/light-pollution-facts


We don't have street lights in our little subdivision. In fact, most of
the residential neighborhoods in our county are sans street lights. So
many people keep a couple of lights burning outside at night. Maybe it
is a holdover from the days when mankind kept a fire burning at night
for warmth, a little light and to ward off those dinosaurs that roamed
the earth back then.

I am going to keep an eye out for some LED bulbs with small bases that
look decent and will fit in our outdoor lighting fixtures. I haven't
seen any at Home Despot or Lowes yet, but they are available via mail
order.

Oh, we have a couple of LED nightlights in the house. Keeps me,
especially, from tripping over the cats.

The US hasn't really embraced LED lighting in all formats yet.
Yet there is good reason to. Check out the harm hazardous conditions CFL
causes. My next project is to get rid of my flurescent tubes.

I ordered some specialty 12V LEDs and 12V motion switches last night
from Amazon. Cheap prices and free shipping direct from China. I got
shipping confirmation from one supplier within two hours. The other was
in my in box this morning. Small world, eh. I tell ya, the US needs to
rethink and remake it's position in the world marketplace. We need to
convert some of those liberal arts diploma mills to science and
engineering schools. If we can't make things we could , at least, design
them.