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"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
"F.O.A.D." wrote in message m... On 8/26/13 4:53 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: I wouldn't pay anything extra for a laser. If it comes standard with the gun, fine, but I wouldn't go searching for a laser equipped handgun based on that feature alone. I'm sorry, but I find most of this entire discussion hilarious. Red point lasers are not intended to *illuminate* a target, if you mean by that lighting it up. They are to tell you if you are pointing at your human target, and not to the left or right of or above your target. -------------------------------- It just dawned on me what you were saying here. I am used to the term " to illuminate" with regard to a laser to be target designation, not "to illuminate" in the sense of putting light on something so it can be seen, such as with a flashlight. Obviously the laser installed on handguns don't light something up so you can see it. They just put a spot on where you are aiming. Illuminate to me means light up - as in United Illuminating Company of Connecticut :) |
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On 8/26/2013 8:45 PM, BAR wrote:
In article , says... "BAR" wrote in message . .. In article , says... "F.O.A.D." wrote in message m... On 8/26/13 4:53 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: I wouldn't pay anything extra for a laser. If it comes standard with the gun, fine, but I wouldn't go searching for a laser equipped handgun based on that feature alone. I'm sorry, but I find most of this entire discussion hilarious. Red point lasers are not intended to *illuminate* a target, if you mean by that lighting it up. They are to tell you if you are pointing at your human target, and not to the left or right of or above your target. -------------------------------- I don't practice shooting using human targets. What are you going to do when the intruder enters your house in the middle of the night, ask him to put a bullseye on his chest? ------------------------- What does that have to do with having a laser on a handgun or not? My point is that you should practice to hit what you are aiming at without one, and preferably without even sighting. Training should be as realistic as possible. Dick has it right... Practicing at close range, "from the hip" as it were. We used to practice, aiming by feel, not by eye. Prone, sitting... from the side... |
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"JustWaitAFrekinMinute" wrote in message ... On 8/26/2013 8:45 PM, BAR wrote: In article , says... "BAR" wrote in message . .. In article , says... "F.O.A.D." wrote in message m... On 8/26/13 4:53 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: I wouldn't pay anything extra for a laser. If it comes standard with the gun, fine, but I wouldn't go searching for a laser equipped handgun based on that feature alone. I'm sorry, but I find most of this entire discussion hilarious. Red point lasers are not intended to *illuminate* a target, if you mean by that lighting it up. They are to tell you if you are pointing at your human target, and not to the left or right of or above your target. -------------------------------- I don't practice shooting using human targets. What are you going to do when the intruder enters your house in the middle of the night, ask him to put a bullseye on his chest? ------------------------- What does that have to do with having a laser on a handgun or not? My point is that you should practice to hit what you are aiming at without one, and preferably without even sighting. Training should be as realistic as possible. Dick has it right... Practicing at close range, "from the hip" as it were. We used to practice, aiming by feel, not by eye. Prone, sitting... from the side... ---------------------- Military laser target designation systems are totally different. They are closed loop with an optical detector providing control of where the round goes. One person or system "illuminates" the target with a laser. A detector receives the reflected laser spot and controls the weapon and round to be fired. As long as the target remains illuminated with the laser, the round doesn't miss. |
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On 8/26/2013 9:24 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
"JustWaitAFrekinMinute" wrote in message ... On 8/26/2013 8:45 PM, BAR wrote: In article , says... "BAR" wrote in message . .. In article , says... "F.O.A.D." wrote in message m... On 8/26/13 4:53 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: I wouldn't pay anything extra for a laser. If it comes standard with the gun, fine, but I wouldn't go searching for a laser equipped handgun based on that feature alone. I'm sorry, but I find most of this entire discussion hilarious. Red point lasers are not intended to *illuminate* a target, if you mean by that lighting it up. They are to tell you if you are pointing at your human target, and not to the left or right of or above your target. -------------------------------- I don't practice shooting using human targets. What are you going to do when the intruder enters your house in the middle of the night, ask him to put a bullseye on his chest? ------------------------- What does that have to do with having a laser on a handgun or not? My point is that you should practice to hit what you are aiming at without one, and preferably without even sighting. Training should be as realistic as possible. Dick has it right... Practicing at close range, "from the hip" as it were. We used to practice, aiming by feel, not by eye. Prone, sitting... from the side... ---------------------- Military laser target designation systems are totally different. They are closed loop with an optical detector providing control of where the round goes. One person or system "illuminates" the target with a laser. A detector receives the reflected laser spot and controls the weapon and round to be fired. As long as the target remains illuminated with the laser, the round doesn't miss. What kind of weapon system are you talking about here? Something hand held??? |
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On Monday, August 26, 2013 5:51:05 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
I don't practice shooting using human targets. Well, then, why would you want a laser sight? They're not much good for target shooting. ---------------------------------------- If you re-read the thread you will find that I have stated that I think the lasers are worthless and wouldn't pay anything extra or seek out a particular gun only because it has one. The two handguns that I own that have them came standard with them. I don't use them. For reasons already stated in another post, I don't think they are of much value in a home defense, intruder situation either. I'd rather practice shooting at close range without sighting, using the handgun I'd reach for in the event of a home intruder. At 10-15 feet or so, I've become fairly proficient at hitting a small (8-inch) target, some near the bull's eye, with the 38 Chief's Special revolver, without sighting. Exactly right, Rick. I've always thought using laser sights was a waste and actually can be harmful especially in a smoky or light fog situation. My son was thinking about getting a laser sight for his Taurus 9mm. and I advised him that if push came to shove it could actually be dangerous for him. and I used the Classic CZ "Duty" video commercial for reference. Here's a copy of the letter i wrote to him.... "OK, so you can see the Hollywood 'action' in this CZ pistol video. Now, looking at the bigger picture, you can see why these ninny's wouldn't last one minute against armed (usually para-military) terrorists etc, before they were taken out. Noise, racket, flashlights, yelling, laser sighting, stalling and dropping to their knees (slowly) before taking a shot. BTW, it also looks like the one guy gets up while his partner is still shooting- a good way to take one in the back." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaDlSKrep0I |
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On Monday, August 26, 2013 6:25:06 PM UTC-5, F. O. A. D. wrote:
On 8/26/13 7:21 PM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote: Well, I agree 100%.. someone shows up in the door, I will attack without a second thought. If I hear them coming through a window, I might let them know I am coming armed and start swinging if they are still there when I get there... Either way, if I see them, it's on... You think someone will break into your place to steal your motorbike from the kitchen? And why not? Some one stole one of their bikes right out of his garage... |
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In article , says...
"JustWaitAFrekinMinute" wrote in message ... On 8/26/2013 8:45 PM, BAR wrote: In article , says... "BAR" wrote in message . .. In article , says... "F.O.A.D." wrote in message m... On 8/26/13 4:53 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: I wouldn't pay anything extra for a laser. If it comes standard with the gun, fine, but I wouldn't go searching for a laser equipped handgun based on that feature alone. I'm sorry, but I find most of this entire discussion hilarious. Red point lasers are not intended to *illuminate* a target, if you mean by that lighting it up. They are to tell you if you are pointing at your human target, and not to the left or right of or above your target. -------------------------------- I don't practice shooting using human targets. What are you going to do when the intruder enters your house in the middle of the night, ask him to put a bullseye on his chest? ------------------------- What does that have to do with having a laser on a handgun or not? My point is that you should practice to hit what you are aiming at without one, and preferably without even sighting. Training should be as realistic as possible. Dick has it right... Practicing at close range, "from the hip" as it were. We used to practice, aiming by feel, not by eye. Prone, sitting... from the side... ---------------------- Military laser target designation systems are totally different. They are closed loop with an optical detector providing control of where the round goes. One person or system "illuminates" the target with a laser. A detector receives the reflected laser spot and controls the weapon and round to be fired. As long as the target remains illuminated with the laser, the round doesn't miss. When the police train, they use bad guys targets. The the elite military forces train shooting at bad guy targets and life-like dummies. When you train to for home defense you should be shooting at bad guy targes and not bulls- eyes. I could care less about the laser on your weapon. |
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On 8/26/2013 10:16 PM, Tim wrote:
On Monday, August 26, 2013 6:25:06 PM UTC-5, F. O. A. D. wrote: On 8/26/13 7:21 PM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote: Well, I agree 100%.. someone shows up in the door, I will attack without a second thought. If I hear them coming through a window, I might let them know I am coming armed and start swinging if they are still there when I get there... Either way, if I see them, it's on... You think someone will break into your place to steal your motorbike from the kitchen? And why not? Some one stole one of their bikes right out of his garage... Well, not quite, they cut the locks and took it from a trailer in the driveway... but either way I am not an animal like harry, doubt I would kill someone over a motorbike... |
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On 8/26/2013 10:20 PM, BAR wrote:
In article , says... "JustWaitAFrekinMinute" wrote in message ... On 8/26/2013 8:45 PM, BAR wrote: In article , says... "BAR" wrote in message . .. In article , says... "F.O.A.D." wrote in message m... On 8/26/13 4:53 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: I wouldn't pay anything extra for a laser. If it comes standard with the gun, fine, but I wouldn't go searching for a laser equipped handgun based on that feature alone. I'm sorry, but I find most of this entire discussion hilarious. Red point lasers are not intended to *illuminate* a target, if you mean by that lighting it up. They are to tell you if you are pointing at your human target, and not to the left or right of or above your target. -------------------------------- I don't practice shooting using human targets. What are you going to do when the intruder enters your house in the middle of the night, ask him to put a bullseye on his chest? ------------------------- What does that have to do with having a laser on a handgun or not? My point is that you should practice to hit what you are aiming at without one, and preferably without even sighting. Training should be as realistic as possible. Dick has it right... Practicing at close range, "from the hip" as it were. We used to practice, aiming by feel, not by eye. Prone, sitting... from the side... ---------------------- Military laser target designation systems are totally different. They are closed loop with an optical detector providing control of where the round goes. One person or system "illuminates" the target with a laser. A detector receives the reflected laser spot and controls the weapon and round to be fired. As long as the target remains illuminated with the laser, the round doesn't miss. When the police train, they use bad guys targets. The the elite military forces train shooting at bad guy targets and life-like dummies. Yeah, I hear they actually went down to the local union office and took pictures of the members coming and going so the dummies faces, would look like real crims... When you train to for home defense you should be shooting at bad guy targes and not bulls- eyes. I could care less about the laser on your weapon. |
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"BAR" wrote in message . .. When the police train, they use bad guys targets. The the elite military forces train shooting at bad guy targets and life-like dummies. When you train to for home defense you should be shooting at bad guy targes and not bulls- eyes. I could care less about the laser on your weapon. ---------------------------------- Two reasons why I don't buy or use "bad guy" targets: 1. I belong to a local "sports club", not a police/military training facility. Use of targets that represent the profile of human beings is technically not permitted in the rules and regulations, although I've seen some people using them once in a while. The club has been in existence since 1922 and has indoor and outdoor pistol ranges, rifle ranges, skeet and trap shooting ranges, bow and arrow ranges, black powder and ball shooting areas and knife/tomahawk throwing areas. The club promotes the sport of target practice and competitive shooting events, not the simulation of shooting people. It also organizes fishing trips, camping trips and sponsors several youth activities and college scholarship programs for members and their families. 2. I don't think it really matters much what is printed on a piece of paper when it comes to practicing close range, home defense shooting. Realistically, if you can accurately and quickly get two or three rounds on an eight inch target at 10 to 15 feet without sighting, you are likely to hit any home intruder at the same distance. In a survival situation like that, there really isn't time to conveniently set up for a head shot, a chest shot to the heart or whatever. |
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On 8/26/13 10:16 PM, Tim wrote:
On Monday, August 26, 2013 6:25:06 PM UTC-5, F. O. A. D. wrote: On 8/26/13 7:21 PM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote: Well, I agree 100%.. someone shows up in the door, I will attack without a second thought. If I hear them coming through a window, I might let them know I am coming armed and start swinging if they are still there when I get there... Either way, if I see them, it's on... You think someone will break into your place to steal your motorbike from the kitchen? And why not? Some one stole one of their bikes right out of his garage... Maybe it was a "sign from above." |
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On Tuesday, August 27, 2013 5:50:37 AM UTC-5, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 8/26/13 10:16 PM, Tim wrote: On Monday, August 26, 2013 6:25:06 PM UTC-5, F. O. A. D. wrote: On 8/26/13 7:21 PM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote: Well, I agree 100%.. someone shows up in the door, I will attack without a second thought. If I hear them coming through a window, I might let them know I am coming armed and start swinging if they are still there when I get there... Either way, if I see them, it's on... You think someone will break into your place to steal your motorbike from the kitchen? And why not? Some one stole one of their bikes right out of his garage... Maybe it was a "sign from above." Maybe it was a "sign from above." what? |
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On 8/27/13 7:54 AM, Tim wrote:
On Tuesday, August 27, 2013 5:50:37 AM UTC-5, F.O.A.D. wrote: On 8/26/13 10:16 PM, Tim wrote: On Monday, August 26, 2013 6:25:06 PM UTC-5, F. O. A. D. wrote: On 8/26/13 7:21 PM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote: Well, I agree 100%.. someone shows up in the door, I will attack without a second thought. If I hear them coming through a window, I might let them know I am coming armed and start swinging if they are still there when I get there... Either way, if I see them, it's on... You think someone will break into your place to steal your motorbike from the kitchen? And why not? Some one stole one of their bikes right out of his garage... Maybe it was a "sign from above." Maybe it was a "sign from above." what? The bike theft. A sign from that mysterious imaginary being of mythology and superstition that another hobby would be better. :) |
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On Tuesday, August 27, 2013 8:11:22 AM UTC-4, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 8/27/13 7:54 AM, Tim wrote: On Tuesday, August 27, 2013 5:50:37 AM UTC-5, F.O.A.D. wrote: On 8/26/13 10:16 PM, Tim wrote: On Monday, August 26, 2013 6:25:06 PM UTC-5, F. O. A. D. wrote: On 8/26/13 7:21 PM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote: Well, I agree 100%.. someone shows up in the door, I will attack without a second thought. If I hear them coming through a window, I might let them know I am coming armed and start swinging if they are still there when I get there... Either way, if I see them, it's on... You think someone will break into your place to steal your motorbike from the kitchen? And why not? Some one stole one of their bikes right out of his garage... Maybe it was a "sign from above." Maybe it was a "sign from above." what? The bike theft. A sign from that mysterious imaginary being of mythology and superstition that another hobby would be better. :) You may not be good at paying your taxes and debts, but you are *very* good at being an asshole. |
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On 8/27/2013 7:54 AM, Tim wrote:
On Tuesday, August 27, 2013 5:50:37 AM UTC-5, F.O.A.D. wrote: On 8/26/13 10:16 PM, Tim wrote: On Monday, August 26, 2013 6:25:06 PM UTC-5, F. O. A. D. wrote: On 8/26/13 7:21 PM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote: Well, I agree 100%.. someone shows up in the door, I will attack without a second thought. If I hear them coming through a window, I might let them know I am coming armed and start swinging if they are still there when I get there... Either way, if I see them, it's on... You think someone will break into your place to steal your motorbike from the kitchen? And why not? Some one stole one of their bikes right out of his garage... Maybe it was a "sign from above." Maybe it was a "sign from above." what? His vantage point in his cellar office, of course. |
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On 8/27/2013 9:13 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 8/27/13 8:49 AM, wrote: On Tuesday, August 27, 2013 8:11:22 AM UTC-4, F.O.A.D. wrote: On 8/27/13 7:54 AM, Tim wrote: On Tuesday, August 27, 2013 5:50:37 AM UTC-5, F.O.A.D. wrote: On 8/26/13 10:16 PM, Tim wrote: On Monday, August 26, 2013 6:25:06 PM UTC-5, F. O. A. D. wrote: On 8/26/13 7:21 PM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote: Well, I agree 100%.. someone shows up in the door, I will attack without a second thought. If I hear them coming through a window, I might let them know I am coming armed and start swinging if they are still there when I get there... Either way, if I see them, it's on... You think someone will break into your place to steal your motorbike from the kitchen? And why not? Some one stole one of their bikes right out of his garage... Maybe it was a "sign from above." Maybe it was a "sign from above." what? The bike theft. A sign from that mysterious imaginary being of mythology and superstition that another hobby would be better. :) You may not be good at paying your taxes and debts, but you are *very* good at being an asshole. Ooooooh. JackOff tries to make a funny. Ooooooh. You freepers are funny guys. Ooooooh. I don't think he intended it to be funny. What is funny, and sad, is how you see the world around you, and the insane comments you make about others. |
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On Tuesday, August 27, 2013 9:27:27 AM UTC-4, Hank© wrote:
On 8/27/2013 9:13 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote: On 8/27/13 8:49 AM, wrote: On Tuesday, August 27, 2013 8:11:22 AM UTC-4, F.O.A.D. wrote: The bike theft. A sign from that mysterious imaginary being of mythology and superstition that another hobby would be better. :) You may not be good at paying your taxes and debts, but you are *very* good at being an asshole. Ooooooh. JackOff tries to make a funny. Ooooooh. You freepers are funny guys. Ooooooh. I don't think he intended it to be funny. What is funny, and sad, is how you see the world around you, and the insane comments you make about others. Correct. I was dead serious. |
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On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 18:07:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
"John H" wrote in message .. . Greg may have a point in using the laser to help with the 'yips'. One could dry fire at the TV and try to keep the laser steady. I'd be hesitant to use it at the range until I could control it well enough to keep folks from laughing at all the jiggling. John (Gun Nut) H. -------------------------- Don't worry about the laughter. Unless you are indoors, they won't be able to see it either. I learned to reduce the jitters by simply relaxing a bit, and also not locking my elbows and arms. It's like when I first tried golf. I was gripping the club so hard my fingers where turning white. A friend who was an experienced (and very good) golfer noticed and worked with me to relax my grip. He had me walking down the fairway shaking my hands like they were wet and I was trying to air dry them. At the next tee, I tried my new, improved "relaxed grip" and tossed the club about 25 yards down the fairway. Re-adjusted a bit back to a slightly stronger grip and my golf game improved dramatically. The range I use is indoors, so the 'spot' would be very visible. I don't have a laser on any of the guns, but we did do some giggling at the range when we saw the 'spot' jiggling all over the target. I wish I could find an easy cure for my golf game. I've been stuck in the doldrum 90's for too long now. John (Gun Nut) H. -- Hope you're having a great day! |
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On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 19:14:02 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote:
On Monday, August 26, 2013 5:51:05 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote: I don't practice shooting using human targets. Well, then, why would you want a laser sight? They're not much good for target shooting. ---------------------------------------- If you re-read the thread you will find that I have stated that I think the lasers are worthless and wouldn't pay anything extra or seek out a particular gun only because it has one. The two handguns that I own that have them came standard with them. I don't use them. For reasons already stated in another post, I don't think they are of much value in a home defense, intruder situation either. I'd rather practice shooting at close range without sighting, using the handgun I'd reach for in the event of a home intruder. At 10-15 feet or so, I've become fairly proficient at hitting a small (8-inch) target, some near the bull's eye, with the 38 Chief's Special revolver, without sighting. Exactly right, Rick. I've always thought using laser sights was a waste and actually can be harmful especially in a smoky or light fog situation. My son was thinking about getting a laser sight for his Taurus 9mm. and I advised him that if push came to shove it could actually be dangerous for him. and I used the Classic CZ "Duty" video commercial for reference. Here's a copy of the letter i wrote to him.... "OK, so you can see the Hollywood 'action' in this CZ pistol video. Now, looking at the bigger picture, you can see why these ninny's wouldn't last one minute against armed (usually para-military) terrorists etc, before they were taken out. Noise, racket, flashlights, yelling, laser sighting, stalling and dropping to their knees (slowly) before taking a shot. BTW, it also looks like the one guy gets up while his partner is still shooting- a good way to take one in the back." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaDlSKrep0I Those CZ folks ain't too bright - unless lit up by a flashlight. John (Gun Nut) H. -- Hope you're having a great day! |
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On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 17:46:31 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:
On 8/26/13 4:53 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: "John H" wrote in message ... On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 00:54:49 -0400, wrote: That looks like the one and he has the laser in the grip. Does he like it? Does he find he laser site helpful? I've seen only one in use at a range, and it magnified the 'shaking' so much the individual aiming the weapon finally turned it off. I think he was just embarrassed. John (Gun Nut) H. ----------------------------------- Based on the limited experience I've had, I think the lasers installed in handguns are a total waste of time. Unless you shoot indoors at a somewhat darkened range, they aren't strong enough to illuminate the target. I do most of my range shooting at an outdoor range and the lasers are totally worthless. The Walther PPK and the S&W Bodyguard both have lasers. Can't see them outdoors at 25 yards. In fact, I can't see them even at 10 yards outside in sunlight. They work ok in the house but unless there's an intruder, what's the point? And if there was ever a life threatening confrontation with an intruder, it's going to be a relatively close range and I am not going to worry about taking the time to turn the stupid laser on. The only firearm I have that has a laser strong enough to see outdoors at a reasonable range is the one installed in the Ruger 10/22 rifle that I recently purchased. But, I still don't bother using it. It's a stronger laser but the battery life is limited. I mounted a scope on the rifle and, after boresighting and adjusting the laser, I used it to adjust and calibrate the scope. Haven't used it since. I wouldn't pay anything extra for a laser. If it comes standard with the gun, fine, but I wouldn't go searching for a laser equipped handgun based on that feature alone. I'm sorry, but I find most of this entire discussion hilarious. Red point lasers are not intended to *illuminate* a target, if you mean by that lighting it up. They are to tell you if you are pointing at your human target, and not to the left or right of or above your target. On a handgun, if you are shooting targets, a nice red dot sight like this one... http://tinyurl.com/nl8dkut ...from Burris is pretty good. With the right red dot sight, a good shooter with steady hands can place his rounds precisely. The red dot is "projected" within the sight, not onto the target. A good target pistol will easily accommodate a rail on which you can mount a red dot sight. Yes, the laser 'illuminates' the target. It illuminates the spot on the forehead or chest or balls where one desires the round to land. If I wanted to illuminate the entire person, I'd use a flashlight or turn on the overheads. You need to do a little military type reading and learn how words are used. John (Gun Nut) H. -- Hope you're having a great day! |
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On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 19:31:49 -0400, Hank© wrote:
On 8/26/2013 5:46 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote: On 8/26/13 4:53 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: "John H" wrote in message ... On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 00:54:49 -0400, wrote: That looks like the one and he has the laser in the grip. Does he like it? Does he find he laser site helpful? I've seen only one in use at a range, and it magnified the 'shaking' so much the individual aiming the weapon finally turned it off. I think he was just embarrassed. John (Gun Nut) H. ----------------------------------- Based on the limited experience I've had, I think the lasers installed in handguns are a total waste of time. Unless you shoot indoors at a somewhat darkened range, they aren't strong enough to illuminate the target. I do most of my range shooting at an outdoor range and the lasers are totally worthless. The Walther PPK and the S&W Bodyguard both have lasers. Can't see them outdoors at 25 yards. In fact, I can't see them even at 10 yards outside in sunlight. They work ok in the house but unless there's an intruder, what's the point? And if there was ever a life threatening confrontation with an intruder, it's going to be a relatively close range and I am not going to worry about taking the time to turn the stupid laser on. The only firearm I have that has a laser strong enough to see outdoors at a reasonable range is the one installed in the Ruger 10/22 rifle that I recently purchased. But, I still don't bother using it. It's a stronger laser but the battery life is limited. I mounted a scope on the rifle and, after boresighting and adjusting the laser, I used it to adjust and calibrate the scope. Haven't used it since. I wouldn't pay anything extra for a laser. If it comes standard with the gun, fine, but I wouldn't go searching for a laser equipped handgun based on that feature alone. I'm sorry, but I find most of this entire discussion hilarious. Red point lasers are not intended to *illuminate* a target, if you mean by that lighting it up. They are to tell you if you are pointing at your human target, and not to the left or right of or above your target. On a handgun, if you are shooting targets, a nice red dot sight like this one... http://tinyurl.com/nl8dkut ....from Burris is pretty good. With the right red dot sight, a good shooter with steady hands can place his rounds precisely. The red dot is "projected" within the sight, not onto the target. A good target pistol will easily accommodate a rail on which you can mount a red dot sight. You obviously have reading difficulties. The red spot indicates where the bullet is going. No one said otherwise. Exactly. John (Gun Nut) H. -- Hope you're having a great day! |
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On 8/27/2013 10:40 AM, John H wrote:
On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 18:07:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: "John H" wrote in message ... Greg may have a point in using the laser to help with the 'yips'. One could dry fire at the TV and try to keep the laser steady. I'd be hesitant to use it at the range until I could control it well enough to keep folks from laughing at all the jiggling. John (Gun Nut) H. -------------------------- Don't worry about the laughter. Unless you are indoors, they won't be able to see it either. I learned to reduce the jitters by simply relaxing a bit, and also not locking my elbows and arms. It's like when I first tried golf. I was gripping the club so hard my fingers where turning white. A friend who was an experienced (and very good) golfer noticed and worked with me to relax my grip. He had me walking down the fairway shaking my hands like they were wet and I was trying to air dry them. At the next tee, I tried my new, improved "relaxed grip" and tossed the club about 25 yards down the fairway. Re-adjusted a bit back to a slightly stronger grip and my golf game improved dramatically. The range I use is indoors, so the 'spot' would be very visible. I don't have a laser on any of the guns, but we did do some giggling at the range when we saw the 'spot' jiggling all over the target. I wish I could find an easy cure for my golf game. I've been stuck in the doldrum 90's for too long now. John (Gun Nut) H. Get a pro for a few lessons.... We were gifted some "lessons" by the team and have gotten to work with a currently ranked pro rider... Jess has had a problem called "dabbing" that has hurt her corners for years. When you dab, your inside foot in a corner hits the ground, and you fall in losing contact with the outside leg and foot peg... This means you come off the throttle, etc... Anyway, we have been working for two years on keeping the weight on the outside peg... driving me nuts. Turns out, five minutes into our lesson he says "she's dabbing, her inside elbow is wrong"... Two years of agony solved with five minutes of pro advice.... anyway, spend a few bucks, enjoy your sport more than you do now...:) |
Do I need this?
On 8/27/2013 10:47 AM, John H wrote:
On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 17:46:31 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: On 8/26/13 4:53 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: "John H" wrote in message ... On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 00:54:49 -0400, wrote: That looks like the one and he has the laser in the grip. Does he like it? Does he find he laser site helpful? I've seen only one in use at a range, and it magnified the 'shaking' so much the individual aiming the weapon finally turned it off. I think he was just embarrassed. John (Gun Nut) H. ----------------------------------- Based on the limited experience I've had, I think the lasers installed in handguns are a total waste of time. Unless you shoot indoors at a somewhat darkened range, they aren't strong enough to illuminate the target. I do most of my range shooting at an outdoor range and the lasers are totally worthless. The Walther PPK and the S&W Bodyguard both have lasers. Can't see them outdoors at 25 yards. In fact, I can't see them even at 10 yards outside in sunlight. They work ok in the house but unless there's an intruder, what's the point? And if there was ever a life threatening confrontation with an intruder, it's going to be a relatively close range and I am not going to worry about taking the time to turn the stupid laser on. The only firearm I have that has a laser strong enough to see outdoors at a reasonable range is the one installed in the Ruger 10/22 rifle that I recently purchased. But, I still don't bother using it. It's a stronger laser but the battery life is limited. I mounted a scope on the rifle and, after boresighting and adjusting the laser, I used it to adjust and calibrate the scope. Haven't used it since. I wouldn't pay anything extra for a laser. If it comes standard with the gun, fine, but I wouldn't go searching for a laser equipped handgun based on that feature alone. I'm sorry, but I find most of this entire discussion hilarious. Red point lasers are not intended to *illuminate* a target, if you mean by that lighting it up. They are to tell you if you are pointing at your human target, and not to the left or right of or above your target. On a handgun, if you are shooting targets, a nice red dot sight like this one... http://tinyurl.com/nl8dkut ...from Burris is pretty good. With the right red dot sight, a good shooter with steady hands can place his rounds precisely. The red dot is "projected" within the sight, not onto the target. A good target pistol will easily accommodate a rail on which you can mount a red dot sight. Yes, the laser 'illuminates' the target. It illuminates the spot on the forehead or chest or balls where one desires the round to land. If I wanted to illuminate the entire person, I'd use a flashlight or turn on the overheads. You need to do a little military type reading and learn how words are used. John (Gun Nut) H. Just to jump back in, when I was talking about the intimidation factor I was imagining a situation where the "perp" (who can't see the dot on himself anyway), sees the laser moving around the room, looking for a target.. To a perp, that could suggest "this guy has a better weapon than me, and he's serious"... again, the ideal situation is to see the perp flounder out the window or door he came in like those robbers on the video shows who meet with resistance.... |
Do I need this?
On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 11:08:18 -0400, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote:
On 8/27/2013 10:40 AM, John H wrote: On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 18:07:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: "John H" wrote in message ... Greg may have a point in using the laser to help with the 'yips'. One could dry fire at the TV and try to keep the laser steady. I'd be hesitant to use it at the range until I could control it well enough to keep folks from laughing at all the jiggling. John (Gun Nut) H. -------------------------- Don't worry about the laughter. Unless you are indoors, they won't be able to see it either. I learned to reduce the jitters by simply relaxing a bit, and also not locking my elbows and arms. It's like when I first tried golf. I was gripping the club so hard my fingers where turning white. A friend who was an experienced (and very good) golfer noticed and worked with me to relax my grip. He had me walking down the fairway shaking my hands like they were wet and I was trying to air dry them. At the next tee, I tried my new, improved "relaxed grip" and tossed the club about 25 yards down the fairway. Re-adjusted a bit back to a slightly stronger grip and my golf game improved dramatically. The range I use is indoors, so the 'spot' would be very visible. I don't have a laser on any of the guns, but we did do some giggling at the range when we saw the 'spot' jiggling all over the target. I wish I could find an easy cure for my golf game. I've been stuck in the doldrum 90's for too long now. John (Gun Nut) H. Get a pro for a few lessons.... We were gifted some "lessons" by the team and have gotten to work with a currently ranked pro rider... Jess has had a problem called "dabbing" that has hurt her corners for years. When you dab, your inside foot in a corner hits the ground, and you fall in losing contact with the outside leg and foot peg... This means you come off the throttle, etc... Anyway, we have been working for two years on keeping the weight on the outside peg... driving me nuts. Turns out, five minutes into our lesson he says "she's dabbing, her inside elbow is wrong"... Two years of agony solved with five minutes of pro advice.... anyway, spend a few bucks, enjoy your sport more than you do now...:) I've tried lessons with pros on four occasions. One of them was working very well when the pro moved to California. The other three didn't do so well, although one was really nice looking! But, she wasn't cheap, and the course is a long drive from my house. http://www.larkingolf.com/ John (Gun Nut) H. -- Hope you're having a great day! |
Do I need this?
Well, if that lady couldn't help you, I'd say you were beyond help.
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Do I need this?
On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 09:25:28 -0700 (PDT), True North wrote:
Well, if that lady couldn't help you, I'd say you were beyond help. Could be. Or could be that I should have stayed for more than five lessons. It's hard to fix everything in five lessons. John (Gun Nut) H. -- Hope you're having a great day! |
Do I need this?
In article , says...
On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 11:08:18 -0400, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote: On 8/27/2013 10:40 AM, John H wrote: On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 18:07:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: "John H" wrote in message ... Greg may have a point in using the laser to help with the 'yips'. One could dry fire at the TV and try to keep the laser steady. I'd be hesitant to use it at the range until I could control it well enough to keep folks from laughing at all the jiggling. John (Gun Nut) H. -------------------------- Don't worry about the laughter. Unless you are indoors, they won't be able to see it either. I learned to reduce the jitters by simply relaxing a bit, and also not locking my elbows and arms. It's like when I first tried golf. I was gripping the club so hard my fingers where turning white. A friend who was an experienced (and very good) golfer noticed and worked with me to relax my grip. He had me walking down the fairway shaking my hands like they were wet and I was trying to air dry them. At the next tee, I tried my new, improved "relaxed grip" and tossed the club about 25 yards down the fairway. Re-adjusted a bit back to a slightly stronger grip and my golf game improved dramatically. The range I use is indoors, so the 'spot' would be very visible. I don't have a laser on any of the guns, but we did do some giggling at the range when we saw the 'spot' jiggling all over the target. I wish I could find an easy cure for my golf game. I've been stuck in the doldrum 90's for too long now. John (Gun Nut) H. Get a pro for a few lessons.... We were gifted some "lessons" by the team and have gotten to work with a currently ranked pro rider... Jess has had a problem called "dabbing" that has hurt her corners for years. When you dab, your inside foot in a corner hits the ground, and you fall in losing contact with the outside leg and foot peg... This means you come off the throttle, etc... Anyway, we have been working for two years on keeping the weight on the outside peg... driving me nuts. Turns out, five minutes into our lesson he says "she's dabbing, her inside elbow is wrong"... Two years of agony solved with five minutes of pro advice.... anyway, spend a few bucks, enjoy your sport more than you do now...:) I've tried lessons with pros on four occasions. One of them was working very well when the pro moved to California. The other three didn't do so well, although one was really nice looking! But, she wasn't cheap, and the course is a long drive from my house. http://www.larkingolf.com/ John (Gun Nut) H. At some point you have to decide whether your enjoyment of playing the game as you can or trying to improve to a certain targed performance level with all of the time and effort that is involved in trying to achieve that targed performance level. Me, I am happy with my game and really enjoy playing and don't want to put 20 hours a week into practicing. |
Do I need this?
On 8/27/2013 12:05 PM, John H wrote:
On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 11:08:18 -0400, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote: On 8/27/2013 10:40 AM, John H wrote: On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 18:07:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: "John H" wrote in message ... Greg may have a point in using the laser to help with the 'yips'. One could dry fire at the TV and try to keep the laser steady. I'd be hesitant to use it at the range until I could control it well enough to keep folks from laughing at all the jiggling. John (Gun Nut) H. -------------------------- Don't worry about the laughter. Unless you are indoors, they won't be able to see it either. I learned to reduce the jitters by simply relaxing a bit, and also not locking my elbows and arms. It's like when I first tried golf. I was gripping the club so hard my fingers where turning white. A friend who was an experienced (and very good) golfer noticed and worked with me to relax my grip. He had me walking down the fairway shaking my hands like they were wet and I was trying to air dry them. At the next tee, I tried my new, improved "relaxed grip" and tossed the club about 25 yards down the fairway. Re-adjusted a bit back to a slightly stronger grip and my golf game improved dramatically. The range I use is indoors, so the 'spot' would be very visible. I don't have a laser on any of the guns, but we did do some giggling at the range when we saw the 'spot' jiggling all over the target. I wish I could find an easy cure for my golf game. I've been stuck in the doldrum 90's for too long now. John (Gun Nut) H. Get a pro for a few lessons.... We were gifted some "lessons" by the team and have gotten to work with a currently ranked pro rider... Jess has had a problem called "dabbing" that has hurt her corners for years. When you dab, your inside foot in a corner hits the ground, and you fall in losing contact with the outside leg and foot peg... This means you come off the throttle, etc... Anyway, we have been working for two years on keeping the weight on the outside peg... driving me nuts. Turns out, five minutes into our lesson he says "she's dabbing, her inside elbow is wrong"... Two years of agony solved with five minutes of pro advice.... anyway, spend a few bucks, enjoy your sport more than you do now...:) I've tried lessons with pros on four occasions. One of them was working very well when the pro moved to California. The other three didn't do so well, although one was really nice looking! But, she wasn't cheap, and the course is a long drive from my house. http://www.larkingolf.com/ John (Gun Nut) H. Yeah, I can see that... I forget that half of the top players in our sport, live locally, or came up locally anyway. There are at least a dozen pro riders here but three or four are known for being able to teach too... We are lucky enough to get one of 4 slots a week, one of them is giving out during the off season right now... Another great tool for me is video... if you really want to step up your game get a cheap vid camera and video your game then go home and see if your elbow is really where you think it is... Video is our number one tool over the years. Still using a 99 dollar, ten year old camera.... but it works well and the camera doesn't lie... |
Do I need this?
On 8/27/2013 1:05 PM, John H wrote:
On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 09:25:28 -0700 (PDT), True North wrote: Well, if that lady couldn't help you, I'd say you were beyond help. Could be. Or could be that I should have stayed for more than five lessons. It's hard to fix everything in five lessons. John (Gun Nut) H. You do realize you are taking criticism from a guy who has his wife pull the boat up the driveway... right? |
Do I need this?
On 8/27/13 1:25 PM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote:
On 8/27/2013 1:05 PM, John H wrote: On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 09:25:28 -0700 (PDT), True North wrote: Well, if that lady couldn't help you, I'd say you were beyond help. Could be. Or could be that I should have stayed for more than five lessons. It's hard to fix everything in five lessons. John (Gun Nut) H. You do realize you are taking criticism from a guy who has his wife pull the boat up the driveway... right? As opposed to what? Getting advice from a moron like you who was socially promoted out of high school? |
Do I need this?
Pull the boat up the driveway??
What a dunce...even I can't do that anymore. |
Do I need this?
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Do I need this?
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Do I need this?
On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 13:07:51 -0400, BAR wrote:
In article , says... On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 11:08:18 -0400, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote: On 8/27/2013 10:40 AM, John H wrote: On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 18:07:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: "John H" wrote in message ... Greg may have a point in using the laser to help with the 'yips'. One could dry fire at the TV and try to keep the laser steady. I'd be hesitant to use it at the range until I could control it well enough to keep folks from laughing at all the jiggling. John (Gun Nut) H. -------------------------- Don't worry about the laughter. Unless you are indoors, they won't be able to see it either. I learned to reduce the jitters by simply relaxing a bit, and also not locking my elbows and arms. It's like when I first tried golf. I was gripping the club so hard my fingers where turning white. A friend who was an experienced (and very good) golfer noticed and worked with me to relax my grip. He had me walking down the fairway shaking my hands like they were wet and I was trying to air dry them. At the next tee, I tried my new, improved "relaxed grip" and tossed the club about 25 yards down the fairway. Re-adjusted a bit back to a slightly stronger grip and my golf game improved dramatically. The range I use is indoors, so the 'spot' would be very visible. I don't have a laser on any of the guns, but we did do some giggling at the range when we saw the 'spot' jiggling all over the target. I wish I could find an easy cure for my golf game. I've been stuck in the doldrum 90's for too long now. John (Gun Nut) H. Get a pro for a few lessons.... We were gifted some "lessons" by the team and have gotten to work with a currently ranked pro rider... Jess has had a problem called "dabbing" that has hurt her corners for years. When you dab, your inside foot in a corner hits the ground, and you fall in losing contact with the outside leg and foot peg... This means you come off the throttle, etc... Anyway, we have been working for two years on keeping the weight on the outside peg... driving me nuts. Turns out, five minutes into our lesson he says "she's dabbing, her inside elbow is wrong"... Two years of agony solved with five minutes of pro advice.... anyway, spend a few bucks, enjoy your sport more than you do now...:) I've tried lessons with pros on four occasions. One of them was working very well when the pro moved to California. The other three didn't do so well, although one was really nice looking! But, she wasn't cheap, and the course is a long drive from my house. http://www.larkingolf.com/ John (Gun Nut) H. At some point you have to decide whether your enjoyment of playing the game as you can or trying to improve to a certain targed performance level with all of the time and effort that is involved in trying to achieve that targed performance level. Me, I am happy with my game and really enjoy playing and don't want to put 20 hours a week into practicing. I'm enjoying the game. Not happy with my performance. Not willing to put in 20 hours a week of practice, but do go to the range a couple times a week to bang balls. I can always say the main reason I'm playing the game is for the exercise! John (Gun Nut) H. -- Hope you're having a great day! |
Do I need this?
On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 13:25:03 -0400, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote:
On 8/27/2013 1:05 PM, John H wrote: On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 09:25:28 -0700 (PDT), True North wrote: Well, if that lady couldn't help you, I'd say you were beyond help. Could be. Or could be that I should have stayed for more than five lessons. It's hard to fix everything in five lessons. John (Gun Nut) H. You do realize you are taking criticism from a guy who has his wife pull the boat up the driveway... right? Actually, I took it as a huge compliment to Erika Larkin! Every so often Donnie makes a post that is not a 'Harry suckup' type post. Those should be encouraged. John (Gun Nut) H. -- Hope you're having a great day! |
Do I need this?
On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 14:28:19 -0400, wrote:
On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 12:05:01 -0400, John H wrote: I've tried lessons with pros on four occasions. One of them was working very well when the pro moved to California. The other three didn't do so well, although one was really nice looking! But, she wasn't cheap, and the course is a long drive from my house. http://www.larkingolf.com/ John (Gun Nut) H. My wife's club pro looked at my swing and asked if I had considered quitting golf and becoming a lumberjack. ;-) I still like hitting the ball and I don't count how many times I do it. I only try to enjoy the good ones. Yesterday I shot a 42 on the front nine and didn't play the back nine. I was kicking myself later for not playing the back nine on my own. The guy I was playing with had to get home. John (Gun Nut) H. -- Hope you're having a great day! |
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