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On 8/24/13 12:03 PM, wrote: The military (non licensed) practitioners are very limited in what they are allowed to do on US soil so you can't blame them. The flaws in the US based military centers can be placed on licensed professionals or the politicians, your choice. VA facilities are all ruled by civilian law and practice. I was the inspector on the VA hospital in Port Charlotte and it was a STATE project. (or I would not have been there) Sorry, I don't believe that the reason returning vets with serious physical and emotional problems are not treated properly by veterans hospitals is because of "civilian law and practice." Oh, and "non-licensed" medical practitioners should be severely limited as to what they are allowed to do on U.S. soil in medical or related fields. You really are a fan of the home hobbyist approach. If you ever need a stent, I hope you find the right non-licensed, non-doctor Army/Navy/Air Force tech to perform the surgery for you. We are not talking about a stent or open heart surgery here. If I just need a few stitches or some other kind of emergency care I would be perfectly happy with a guy who was patching up marines, injured in combat as I would some guy who went to a Guatemala medical school and got licensed here. ---------------------------------------- Notes to self: If you happen to be in a restaurant and notice Harry choking, do *not* attempt the Heimlich maneuver. (you are not medically qualified by degree) If you happen to come upon an automobile accident and find Harry injured and bleeding, do *not* attempt to administer first aid. (you are not medically qualified by degree) If you happen to see Harry suddenly clutch his chest and drop to the ground unconscious, do *not* attempt CPR. (you are not medically qualified by degree) Best to just leave Harry be. If you successfully save his life and he finds out you are not medically qualified by degree, he'll probably sue. |
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On 8/24/13 2:08 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/24/13 12:03 PM, wrote: The military (non licensed) practitioners are very limited in what they are allowed to do on US soil so you can't blame them. The flaws in the US based military centers can be placed on licensed professionals or the politicians, your choice. VA facilities are all ruled by civilian law and practice. I was the inspector on the VA hospital in Port Charlotte and it was a STATE project. (or I would not have been there) Sorry, I don't believe that the reason returning vets with serious physical and emotional problems are not treated properly by veterans hospitals is because of "civilian law and practice." Oh, and "non-licensed" medical practitioners should be severely limited as to what they are allowed to do on U.S. soil in medical or related fields. You really are a fan of the home hobbyist approach. If you ever need a stent, I hope you find the right non-licensed, non-doctor Army/Navy/Air Force tech to perform the surgery for you. We are not talking about a stent or open heart surgery here. If I just need a few stitches or some other kind of emergency care I would be perfectly happy with a guy who was patching up marines, injured in combat as I would some guy who went to a Guatemala medical school and got licensed here. ---------------------------------------- Notes to self: If you happen to be in a restaurant and notice Harry choking, do *not* attempt the Heimlich maneuver. (you are not medically qualified by degree) If you happen to come upon an automobile accident and find Harry injured and bleeding, do *not* attempt to administer first aid. (you are not medically qualified by degree) If you happen to see Harry suddenly clutch his chest and drop to the ground unconscious, do *not* attempt CPR. (you are not medically qualified by degree) Best to just leave Harry be. If you successfully save his life and he finds out you are not medically qualified by degree, he'll probably sue. My estate will. :) |
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On Saturday, August 24, 2013 1:56:26 PM UTC-4, F.O.A.D. wrote:
Some of us have higher standards for the medical practitioners we allow to work on us. Is that why you don't get those open pustules on your rotting corpse fixed??? |
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True North wrote:
Too bad it wasn't a national initiative and enforced in all the states. If you are referring to the MA gun law proposals, what does that have to do with you? |
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BAR wrote:
In article , says... On Thu, 22 Aug 2013 17:59:27 -0400, John H wrote: Beautiful gun. Nice price. http://tinyurl.com/ls8jvo5 John (Gun Nut) H. That is a lot of gun to carry. Kimber does make a nice mini 9mm that my neighbor has. It is $1500 or so. I am looking at a couple of Sig's, P239 and P938, a Beretta Nano and the gun I have always wanted a Colt Mustang .380. Check out the S&W Bodyguard, too. |
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"Earl" wrote in message ... BAR wrote: In article , says... On Thu, 22 Aug 2013 17:59:27 -0400, John H wrote: Beautiful gun. Nice price. http://tinyurl.com/ls8jvo5 John (Gun Nut) H. That is a lot of gun to carry. Kimber does make a nice mini 9mm that my neighbor has. It is $1500 or so. I am looking at a couple of Sig's, P239 and P938, a Beretta Nano and the gun I have always wanted a Colt Mustang .380. Check out the S&W Bodyguard, too. ---------------------------------- I have a S&W Bodyguard 380. As the name suggests, it's a close up, self defense pistol only and not something you'd go to the target range with except maybe to practice at 7 yards or so. Double action only with an excessively long, 10 lb. trigger pull as it comes from the factory. It took me a while to adjust for the tendency to shoot low because of the long trigger pull. It's also a pain in the rear to break down for cleaning because of the weird little lever/pin that must be positioned and manipulated in exactly the right way in order to re-assemble. I've had mine apart many times and still have difficulty sometimes getting it back together properly. Despite it's drawbacks, I still like it. It's small, light and is easily concealed if you carry. The long trigger pull and lack of an exposed hammer makes it a very safe carry pistol. I bought a pocket holster for it and on the few occasions that I carry, I just stick it in my pants pocket. |
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On Sunday, August 25, 2013 1:46:46 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
Despite it's drawbacks, I still like it. It's small, light and is easily concealed if you carry. The long trigger pull and lack of an exposed hammer makes it a very safe carry pistol. I bought a pocket holster for it and on the few occasions that I carry, I just stick it in my pants pocket. Do me a favour, ****....shoot yourself in that fat head of yours. |
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In article , says...
On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 12:11:34 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: On 8/24/13 12:03 PM, wrote: The military (non licensed) practitioners are very limited in what they are allowed to do on US soil so you can't blame them. The flaws in the US based military centers can be placed on licensed professionals or the politicians, your choice. VA facilities are all ruled by civilian law and practice. I was the inspector on the VA hospital in Port Charlotte and it was a STATE project. (or I would not have been there) Sorry, I don't believe that the reason returning vets with serious physical and emotional problems are not treated properly by veterans hospitals is because of "civilian law and practice." Oh, and "non-licensed" medical practitioners should be severely limited as to what they are allowed to do on U.S. soil in medical or related fields. You really are a fan of the home hobbyist approach. If you ever need a stent, I hope you find the right non-licensed, non-doctor Army/Navy/Air Force tech to perform the surgery for you. We are not talking about a stent or open heart surgery here. If I just need a few stitches or some other kind of emergency care I would be perfectly happy with a guy who was patching up marines, injured in combat as I would some guy who went to a Guatemala medical school and got licensed here. When I was a youth, living outside of Ft Belvior in Northern Virginia, we would go to DeWitt Army Hospital and if you needed stiches you had your pick of a half dozen Medic's, Army guys, to stitch you up. They were eager to actually stitch up real live flesh. |
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On 8/25/2013 9:07 AM, BAR wrote:
In article , says... On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 12:11:34 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: On 8/24/13 12:03 PM, wrote: The military (non licensed) practitioners are very limited in what they are allowed to do on US soil so you can't blame them. The flaws in the US based military centers can be placed on licensed professionals or the politicians, your choice. VA facilities are all ruled by civilian law and practice. I was the inspector on the VA hospital in Port Charlotte and it was a STATE project. (or I would not have been there) Sorry, I don't believe that the reason returning vets with serious physical and emotional problems are not treated properly by veterans hospitals is because of "civilian law and practice." Oh, and "non-licensed" medical practitioners should be severely limited as to what they are allowed to do on U.S. soil in medical or related fields. You really are a fan of the home hobbyist approach. If you ever need a stent, I hope you find the right non-licensed, non-doctor Army/Navy/Air Force tech to perform the surgery for you. We are not talking about a stent or open heart surgery here. If I just need a few stitches or some other kind of emergency care I would be perfectly happy with a guy who was patching up marines, injured in combat as I would some guy who went to a Guatemala medical school and got licensed here. When I was a youth, living outside of Ft Belvior in Northern Virginia, we would go to DeWitt Army Hospital and if you needed stiches you had your pick of a half dozen Medic's, Army guys, to stitch you up. They were eager to actually stitch up real live flesh. On a slightly different note.. Before I was born the neighbor kid broke his arm in our back yard on a rock that is not listed on our insurance as a "attractive nusence (sp?)". His parents weren't home so my dad loaded him up, took him off to emergency, paid 15 dollars and had a cast put on the kid, delivered him to his parents when they came home from work...... no lawyers, no problem.... Try that now:) |
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In article ,
says... On 8/25/2013 9:07 AM, BAR wrote: In article , says... On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 12:11:34 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: On 8/24/13 12:03 PM, wrote: The military (non licensed) practitioners are very limited in what they are allowed to do on US soil so you can't blame them. The flaws in the US based military centers can be placed on licensed professionals or the politicians, your choice. VA facilities are all ruled by civilian law and practice. I was the inspector on the VA hospital in Port Charlotte and it was a STATE project. (or I would not have been there) Sorry, I don't believe that the reason returning vets with serious physical and emotional problems are not treated properly by veterans hospitals is because of "civilian law and practice." Oh, and "non-licensed" medical practitioners should be severely limited as to what they are allowed to do on U.S. soil in medical or related fields. You really are a fan of the home hobbyist approach. If you ever need a stent, I hope you find the right non-licensed, non-doctor Army/Navy/Air Force tech to perform the surgery for you. We are not talking about a stent or open heart surgery here. If I just need a few stitches or some other kind of emergency care I would be perfectly happy with a guy who was patching up marines, injured in combat as I would some guy who went to a Guatemala medical school and got licensed here. When I was a youth, living outside of Ft Belvior in Northern Virginia, we would go to DeWitt Army Hospital and if you needed stiches you had your pick of a half dozen Medic's, Army guys, to stitch you up. They were eager to actually stitch up real live flesh. On a slightly different note.. Before I was born the neighbor kid broke his arm in our back yard on a rock that is not listed on our insurance as a "attractive nusence (sp?)". His parents weren't home so my dad loaded him up, took him off to emergency, paid 15 dollars and had a cast put on the kid, delivered him to his parents when they came home from work...... no lawyers, no problem.... Try that now:) Horse****. |
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On Sunday, August 25, 2013 11:09:32 AM UTC-4, iBoaterer wrote:
Horse****. Yes, you are....., |
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On Thu, 22 Aug 2013 15:43:01 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote:
On Thursday, August 22, 2013 4:59:27 PM UTC-5, John H wrote: Beautiful gun. Nice price. http://tinyurl.com/ls8jvo5 John (Gun Nut) H. -- Hope you're having a great day! For that price? YES! That 'was' a pretty good price. Now the ad says 'Price on Request'. We've been camping the past few days and didn't get the order in. John (Gun Nut) H. -- Hope you're having a great day! |
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On Thu, 22 Aug 2013 19:25:28 -0400, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Aug 2013 17:59:27 -0400, John H wrote: Beautiful gun. Nice price. http://tinyurl.com/ls8jvo5 John (Gun Nut) H. That is a lot of gun to carry. Kimber does make a nice mini 9mm that my neighbor has. It is $1500 or so. I'll check it out. Yup, that may be worth looking into. Thanks for the tip. http://tinyurl.com/l45sjgb John (Gun Nut) H. -- Hope you're having a great day! |
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On Fri, 23 Aug 2013 07:47:59 -0400, BAR wrote:
In article , says... Beautiful gun. Nice price. http://tinyurl.com/ls8jvo5 John (Gun Nut) H. My birthday is next week! Happy B-day!!! John (Gun Nut) H. -- Hope you're having a great day! |
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On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 00:54:49 -0400, wrote:
On Sun, 25 Aug 2013 17:51:10 -0400, John H wrote: On Thu, 22 Aug 2013 19:25:28 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 22 Aug 2013 17:59:27 -0400, John H wrote: Beautiful gun. Nice price. http://tinyurl.com/ls8jvo5 John (Gun Nut) H. That is a lot of gun to carry. Kimber does make a nice mini 9mm that my neighbor has. It is $1500 or so. I'll check it out. Yup, that may be worth looking into. Thanks for the tip. http://tinyurl.com/l45sjgb John (Gun Nut) H. That looks like the one and he has the laser in the grip. Does he like it? Does he find he laser site helpful? I've seen only one in use at a range, and it magnified the 'shaking' so much the individual aiming the weapon finally turned it off. I think he was just embarrassed. John (Gun Nut) H. -- Hope you're having a great day! |
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On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 16:53:19 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
"John H" wrote in message .. . On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 00:54:49 -0400, wrote: That looks like the one and he has the laser in the grip. Does he like it? Does he find he laser site helpful? I've seen only one in use at a range, and it magnified the 'shaking' so much the individual aiming the weapon finally turned it off. I think he was just embarrassed. John (Gun Nut) H. ----------------------------------- Based on the limited experience I've had, I think the lasers installed in handguns are a total waste of time. Unless you shoot indoors at a somewhat darkened range, they aren't strong enough to illuminate the target. I do most of my range shooting at an outdoor range and the lasers are totally worthless. The Walther PPK and the S&W Bodyguard both have lasers. Can't see them outdoors at 25 yards. In fact, I can't see them even at 10 yards outside in sunlight. They work ok in the house but unless there's an intruder, what's the point? And if there was ever a life threatening confrontation with an intruder, it's going to be a relatively close range and I am not going to worry about taking the time to turn the stupid laser on. The only firearm I have that has a laser strong enough to see outdoors at a reasonable range is the one installed in the Ruger 10/22 rifle that I recently purchased. But, I still don't bother using it. It's a stronger laser but the battery life is limited. I mounted a scope on the rifle and, after boresighting and adjusting the laser, I used it to adjust and calibrate the scope. Haven't used it since. I wouldn't pay anything extra for a laser. If it comes standard with the gun, fine, but I wouldn't go searching for a laser equipped handgun based on that feature alone. Greg may have a point in using the laser to help with the 'yips'. One could dry fire at the TV and try to keep the laser steady. I'd be hesitant to use it at the range until I could control it well enough to keep folks from laughing at all the jiggling. John (Gun Nut) H. -- Hope you're having a great day! |
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On 8/26/13 4:53 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
"John H" wrote in message ... On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 00:54:49 -0400, wrote: That looks like the one and he has the laser in the grip. Does he like it? Does he find he laser site helpful? I've seen only one in use at a range, and it magnified the 'shaking' so much the individual aiming the weapon finally turned it off. I think he was just embarrassed. John (Gun Nut) H. ----------------------------------- Based on the limited experience I've had, I think the lasers installed in handguns are a total waste of time. Unless you shoot indoors at a somewhat darkened range, they aren't strong enough to illuminate the target. I do most of my range shooting at an outdoor range and the lasers are totally worthless. The Walther PPK and the S&W Bodyguard both have lasers. Can't see them outdoors at 25 yards. In fact, I can't see them even at 10 yards outside in sunlight. They work ok in the house but unless there's an intruder, what's the point? And if there was ever a life threatening confrontation with an intruder, it's going to be a relatively close range and I am not going to worry about taking the time to turn the stupid laser on. The only firearm I have that has a laser strong enough to see outdoors at a reasonable range is the one installed in the Ruger 10/22 rifle that I recently purchased. But, I still don't bother using it. It's a stronger laser but the battery life is limited. I mounted a scope on the rifle and, after boresighting and adjusting the laser, I used it to adjust and calibrate the scope. Haven't used it since. I wouldn't pay anything extra for a laser. If it comes standard with the gun, fine, but I wouldn't go searching for a laser equipped handgun based on that feature alone. I'm sorry, but I find most of this entire discussion hilarious. Red point lasers are not intended to *illuminate* a target, if you mean by that lighting it up. They are to tell you if you are pointing at your human target, and not to the left or right of or above your target. On a handgun, if you are shooting targets, a nice red dot sight like this one... http://tinyurl.com/nl8dkut ....from Burris is pretty good. With the right red dot sight, a good shooter with steady hands can place his rounds precisely. The red dot is "projected" within the sight, not onto the target. A good target pistol will easily accommodate a rail on which you can mount a red dot sight. |
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"John H" wrote in message ... Greg may have a point in using the laser to help with the 'yips'. One could dry fire at the TV and try to keep the laser steady. I'd be hesitant to use it at the range until I could control it well enough to keep folks from laughing at all the jiggling. John (Gun Nut) H. -------------------------- Don't worry about the laughter. Unless you are indoors, they won't be able to see it either. I learned to reduce the jitters by simply relaxing a bit, and also not locking my elbows and arms. It's like when I first tried golf. I was gripping the club so hard my fingers where turning white. A friend who was an experienced (and very good) golfer noticed and worked with me to relax my grip. He had me walking down the fairway shaking my hands like they were wet and I was trying to air dry them. At the next tee, I tried my new, improved "relaxed grip" and tossed the club about 25 yards down the fairway. Re-adjusted a bit back to a slightly stronger grip and my golf game improved dramatically. |
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"F.O.A.D." wrote in message m... On 8/26/13 4:53 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: I wouldn't pay anything extra for a laser. If it comes standard with the gun, fine, but I wouldn't go searching for a laser equipped handgun based on that feature alone. I'm sorry, but I find most of this entire discussion hilarious. Red point lasers are not intended to *illuminate* a target, if you mean by that lighting it up. They are to tell you if you are pointing at your human target, and not to the left or right of or above your target. -------------------------------- I don't practice shooting using human targets. |
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On 8/26/2013 6:00 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 16:53:19 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: "John H" wrote in message ... On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 00:54:49 -0400, wrote: That looks like the one and he has the laser in the grip. Does he like it? Does he find he laser site helpful? I've seen only one in use at a range, and it magnified the 'shaking' so much the individual aiming the weapon finally turned it off. I think he was just embarrassed. John (Gun Nut) H. ----------------------------------- Based on the limited experience I've had, I think the lasers installed in handguns are a total waste of time. Unless you shoot indoors at a somewhat darkened range, they aren't strong enough to illuminate the target. I do most of my range shooting at an outdoor range and the lasers are totally worthless. The Walther PPK and the S&W Bodyguard both have lasers. Can't see them outdoors at 25 yards. In fact, I can't see them even at 10 yards outside in sunlight. They work ok in the house but unless there's an intruder, what's the point? And if there was ever a life threatening confrontation with an intruder, it's going to be a relatively close range and I am not going to worry about taking the time to turn the stupid laser on. The only firearm I have that has a laser strong enough to see outdoors at a reasonable range is the one installed in the Ruger 10/22 rifle that I recently purchased. But, I still don't bother using it. It's a stronger laser but the battery life is limited. I mounted a scope on the rifle and, after boresighting and adjusting the laser, I used it to adjust and calibrate the scope. Haven't used it since. I wouldn't pay anything extra for a laser. If it comes standard with the gun, fine, but I wouldn't go searching for a laser equipped handgun based on that feature alone. Try a green laser One friend of mine says "the guys shooting you can use it to pinpoint you", but that assumes you are in a "gunfight". I suspect if I carried a weapon and pulled it, whatever happened would be over quite quickly. That being said. There is also the intimidation factor... The rack of a shotgun is probably the most recognizable sound out there as far as deterrent is concerned .. If a bad guy, or a good guy for that matter hears that sound he knows he has met resistance, and possibly someone has just gotten the jump, and it's time to get the hell out of there if you can or lay down and hope the guy doesn't hit the bang switch:) (from a previous post:). Similarly, if that guy sees a red dot on his shirt, or even the trace of the laser after the first volley, unless he is also familiar with laser clad guns, I assume it would have a similar intimation effect... It only takes a second of distraction or second guessing to get the jump on "the bad guy", so I might want that laser anyway.... |
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wrote in message ... On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 16:53:19 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: I wouldn't pay anything extra for a laser. If it comes standard with the gun, fine, but I wouldn't go searching for a laser equipped handgun based on that feature alone. Try a green laser ---------------------------------- I still don't get what the point is. As Harry pointed out the laser is to help determine where the gun is pointed without using the sights. This would most likely be in a close range, self defense requirement where you need to get some rounds off fast and you fire more from the "ready" without sighting. In that type of situation, who's going to spend the extra time fumbling for the laser button to turn in on. Worse yet, only to find your battery is dead. So are you. A bunch of us went to the range today and practiced shooting without sighting with targets set up only about 10 feet away. I think it's important to do this with your primary home defense gun of choice, because after a while you know instinctively where to hold and point it, even if you are firing from waist level. Each gun is different, obviously, so I only use my 38 Chief's Special for this. It's the gun I'd reach for in the event of a home intruder at night with ill-will. |
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On 8/26/13 6:10 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
"F.O.A.D." wrote in message m... On 8/26/13 4:53 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: I wouldn't pay anything extra for a laser. If it comes standard with the gun, fine, but I wouldn't go searching for a laser equipped handgun based on that feature alone. I'm sorry, but I find most of this entire discussion hilarious. Red point lasers are not intended to *illuminate* a target, if you mean by that lighting it up. They are to tell you if you are pointing at your human target, and not to the left or right of or above your target. -------------------------------- I don't practice shooting using human targets. Well, then, why would you want a laser sight? They're not much good for target shooting. |
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"JustWaitAFrekinMinute" wrote in message ... On 8/26/2013 6:00 PM, wrote: On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 16:53:19 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: "John H" wrote in message ... On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 00:54:49 -0400, wrote: That looks like the one and he has the laser in the grip. Does he like it? Does he find he laser site helpful? I've seen only one in use at a range, and it magnified the 'shaking' so much the individual aiming the weapon finally turned it off. I think he was just embarrassed. John (Gun Nut) H. ----------------------------------- Based on the limited experience I've had, I think the lasers installed in handguns are a total waste of time. Unless you shoot indoors at a somewhat darkened range, they aren't strong enough to illuminate the target. I do most of my range shooting at an outdoor range and the lasers are totally worthless. The Walther PPK and the S&W Bodyguard both have lasers. Can't see them outdoors at 25 yards. In fact, I can't see them even at 10 yards outside in sunlight. They work ok in the house but unless there's an intruder, what's the point? And if there was ever a life threatening confrontation with an intruder, it's going to be a relatively close range and I am not going to worry about taking the time to turn the stupid laser on. The only firearm I have that has a laser strong enough to see outdoors at a reasonable range is the one installed in the Ruger 10/22 rifle that I recently purchased. But, I still don't bother using it. It's a stronger laser but the battery life is limited. I mounted a scope on the rifle and, after boresighting and adjusting the laser, I used it to adjust and calibrate the scope. Haven't used it since. I wouldn't pay anything extra for a laser. If it comes standard with the gun, fine, but I wouldn't go searching for a laser equipped handgun based on that feature alone. Try a green laser One friend of mine says "the guys shooting you can use it to pinpoint you", but that assumes you are in a "gunfight". I suspect if I carried a weapon and pulled it, whatever happened would be over quite quickly. That being said. There is also the intimidation factor... The rack of a shotgun is probably the most recognizable sound out there as far as deterrent is concerned .. If a bad guy, or a good guy for that matter hears that sound he knows he has met resistance, and possibly someone has just gotten the jump, and it's time to get the hell out of there if you can or lay down and hope the guy doesn't hit the bang switch:) (from a previous post:). Similarly, if that guy sees a red dot on his shirt, or even the trace of the laser after the first volley, unless he is also familiar with laser clad guns, I assume it would have a similar intimation effect... It only takes a second of distraction or second guessing to get the jump on "the bad guy", so I might want that laser anyway.... ------------------------------ I agree the sound of racking a shotgun is probably a strong sound deterrent. Don't agree about the laser spot for reasons I've already stated plus the fact that an intruder probably won't notice the spot on his chest or head at first, even if you had the time to find the button or switch and turn it on. I think a lot of this "what if" talk is bogus anyway. If you woke up at 2 am with the sound of someone breaking into your house, or approaching you in your room, there isn't going to be a whole hell of a lot of time to think about what to do to "scare" the intruder away. That's why my home defense firearm of choice is the little 38 Special. It's a simple revolver, ready to fire either in double or single action mode. No racking of slides, no safeties, no laser. Just pull the trigger and "bang". |
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On 8/26/13 6:18 PM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote:
On 8/26/2013 6:00 PM, wrote: On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 16:53:19 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: "John H" wrote in message ... On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 00:54:49 -0400, wrote: That looks like the one and he has the laser in the grip. Does he like it? Does he find he laser site helpful? I've seen only one in use at a range, and it magnified the 'shaking' so much the individual aiming the weapon finally turned it off. I think he was just embarrassed. John (Gun Nut) H. ----------------------------------- Based on the limited experience I've had, I think the lasers installed in handguns are a total waste of time. Unless you shoot indoors at a somewhat darkened range, they aren't strong enough to illuminate the target. I do most of my range shooting at an outdoor range and the lasers are totally worthless. The Walther PPK and the S&W Bodyguard both have lasers. Can't see them outdoors at 25 yards. In fact, I can't see them even at 10 yards outside in sunlight. They work ok in the house but unless there's an intruder, what's the point? And if there was ever a life threatening confrontation with an intruder, it's going to be a relatively close range and I am not going to worry about taking the time to turn the stupid laser on. The only firearm I have that has a laser strong enough to see outdoors at a reasonable range is the one installed in the Ruger 10/22 rifle that I recently purchased. But, I still don't bother using it. It's a stronger laser but the battery life is limited. I mounted a scope on the rifle and, after boresighting and adjusting the laser, I used it to adjust and calibrate the scope. Haven't used it since. I wouldn't pay anything extra for a laser. If it comes standard with the gun, fine, but I wouldn't go searching for a laser equipped handgun based on that feature alone. Try a green laser One friend of mine says "the guys shooting you can use it to pinpoint you", but that assumes you are in a "gunfight". I suspect if I carried a weapon and pulled it, whatever happened would be over quite quickly. That being said. There is also the intimidation factor... The rack of a shotgun is probably the most recognizable sound out there as far as deterrent is concerned .. If a bad guy, or a good guy for that matter hears that sound he knows he has met resistance, and possibly someone has just gotten the jump, and it's time to get the hell out of there if you can or lay down and hope the guy doesn't hit the bang switch:) (from a previous post:). Similarly, if that guy sees a red dot on his shirt, or even the trace of the laser after the first volley, unless he is also familiar with laser clad guns, I assume it would have a similar intimation effect... It only takes a second of distraction or second guessing to get the jump on "the bad guy", so I might want that laser anyway.... Just make sure that laser is pointed at you before you pull the trigger. |
Do I need this?
On 8/26/2013 6:39 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
"JustWaitAFrekinMinute" wrote in message ... On 8/26/2013 6:00 PM, wrote: On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 16:53:19 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: "John H" wrote in message ... On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 00:54:49 -0400, wrote: That looks like the one and he has the laser in the grip. Does he like it? Does he find he laser site helpful? I've seen only one in use at a range, and it magnified the 'shaking' so much the individual aiming the weapon finally turned it off. I think he was just embarrassed. John (Gun Nut) H. ----------------------------------- Based on the limited experience I've had, I think the lasers installed in handguns are a total waste of time. Unless you shoot indoors at a somewhat darkened range, they aren't strong enough to illuminate the target. I do most of my range shooting at an outdoor range and the lasers are totally worthless. The Walther PPK and the S&W Bodyguard both have lasers. Can't see them outdoors at 25 yards. In fact, I can't see them even at 10 yards outside in sunlight. They work ok in the house but unless there's an intruder, what's the point? And if there was ever a life threatening confrontation with an intruder, it's going to be a relatively close range and I am not going to worry about taking the time to turn the stupid laser on. The only firearm I have that has a laser strong enough to see outdoors at a reasonable range is the one installed in the Ruger 10/22 rifle that I recently purchased. But, I still don't bother using it. It's a stronger laser but the battery life is limited. I mounted a scope on the rifle and, after boresighting and adjusting the laser, I used it to adjust and calibrate the scope. Haven't used it since. I wouldn't pay anything extra for a laser. If it comes standard with the gun, fine, but I wouldn't go searching for a laser equipped handgun based on that feature alone. Try a green laser One friend of mine says "the guys shooting you can use it to pinpoint you", but that assumes you are in a "gunfight". I suspect if I carried a weapon and pulled it, whatever happened would be over quite quickly. That being said. There is also the intimidation factor... The rack of a shotgun is probably the most recognizable sound out there as far as deterrent is concerned .. If a bad guy, or a good guy for that matter hears that sound he knows he has met resistance, and possibly someone has just gotten the jump, and it's time to get the hell out of there if you can or lay down and hope the guy doesn't hit the bang switch:) (from a previous post:). Similarly, if that guy sees a red dot on his shirt, or even the trace of the laser after the first volley, unless he is also familiar with laser clad guns, I assume it would have a similar intimation effect... It only takes a second of distraction or second guessing to get the jump on "the bad guy", so I might want that laser anyway.... ------------------------------ I agree the sound of racking a shotgun is probably a strong sound deterrent. Don't agree about the laser spot for reasons I've already stated plus the fact that an intruder probably won't notice the spot on his chest or head at first, even if you had the time to find the button or switch and turn it on. I think a lot of this "what if" talk is bogus anyway. If you woke up at 2 am with the sound of someone breaking into your house, or approaching you in your room, there isn't going to be a whole hell of a lot of time to think about what to do to "scare" the intruder away. That's why my home defense firearm of choice is the little 38 Special. It's a simple revolver, ready to fire either in double or single action mode. No racking of slides, no safeties, no laser. Just pull the trigger and "bang". Well, have a couple other ideas provided by a fiend but they are all "what if's"... soooooo... I will say, one of them involves yelling down the stairs (custom designed for my home at the time) " We are armed, the police are on the way, if you come up the stairs we will shoot you!" Our insurance agent taught a course in "use of deadly force for homeowners", and we were considering firearms at the time... |
Do I need this?
On 8/26/13 6:48 PM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote:
On 8/26/2013 6:39 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: "JustWaitAFrekinMinute" wrote in message ... On 8/26/2013 6:00 PM, wrote: On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 16:53:19 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: "John H" wrote in message ... On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 00:54:49 -0400, wrote: That looks like the one and he has the laser in the grip. Does he like it? Does he find he laser site helpful? I've seen only one in use at a range, and it magnified the 'shaking' so much the individual aiming the weapon finally turned it off. I think he was just embarrassed. John (Gun Nut) H. ----------------------------------- Based on the limited experience I've had, I think the lasers installed in handguns are a total waste of time. Unless you shoot indoors at a somewhat darkened range, they aren't strong enough to illuminate the target. I do most of my range shooting at an outdoor range and the lasers are totally worthless. The Walther PPK and the S&W Bodyguard both have lasers. Can't see them outdoors at 25 yards. In fact, I can't see them even at 10 yards outside in sunlight. They work ok in the house but unless there's an intruder, what's the point? And if there was ever a life threatening confrontation with an intruder, it's going to be a relatively close range and I am not going to worry about taking the time to turn the stupid laser on. The only firearm I have that has a laser strong enough to see outdoors at a reasonable range is the one installed in the Ruger 10/22 rifle that I recently purchased. But, I still don't bother using it. It's a stronger laser but the battery life is limited. I mounted a scope on the rifle and, after boresighting and adjusting the laser, I used it to adjust and calibrate the scope. Haven't used it since. I wouldn't pay anything extra for a laser. If it comes standard with the gun, fine, but I wouldn't go searching for a laser equipped handgun based on that feature alone. Try a green laser One friend of mine says "the guys shooting you can use it to pinpoint you", but that assumes you are in a "gunfight". I suspect if I carried a weapon and pulled it, whatever happened would be over quite quickly. That being said. There is also the intimidation factor... The rack of a shotgun is probably the most recognizable sound out there as far as deterrent is concerned .. If a bad guy, or a good guy for that matter hears that sound he knows he has met resistance, and possibly someone has just gotten the jump, and it's time to get the hell out of there if you can or lay down and hope the guy doesn't hit the bang switch:) (from a previous post:). Similarly, if that guy sees a red dot on his shirt, or even the trace of the laser after the first volley, unless he is also familiar with laser clad guns, I assume it would have a similar intimation effect... It only takes a second of distraction or second guessing to get the jump on "the bad guy", so I might want that laser anyway.... ------------------------------ I agree the sound of racking a shotgun is probably a strong sound deterrent. Don't agree about the laser spot for reasons I've already stated plus the fact that an intruder probably won't notice the spot on his chest or head at first, even if you had the time to find the button or switch and turn it on. I think a lot of this "what if" talk is bogus anyway. If you woke up at 2 am with the sound of someone breaking into your house, or approaching you in your room, there isn't going to be a whole hell of a lot of time to think about what to do to "scare" the intruder away. That's why my home defense firearm of choice is the little 38 Special. It's a simple revolver, ready to fire either in double or single action mode. No racking of slides, no safeties, no laser. Just pull the trigger and "bang". Well, have a couple other ideas provided by a fiend but they are all "what if's"... soooooo... I will say, one of them involves yelling down the stairs (custom designed for my home at the time) " We are armed, the police are on the way, if you come up the stairs we will shoot you!" Our insurance agent taught a course in "use of deadly force for homeowners", and we were considering firearms at the time... Not to worry, little ****. When you "home invade" here and bust in a door or window, that will be a warning you provide for yourself. |
Do I need this?
"F.O.A.D." wrote in message ... On 8/26/13 6:10 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: "F.O.A.D." wrote in message m... On 8/26/13 4:53 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: I wouldn't pay anything extra for a laser. If it comes standard with the gun, fine, but I wouldn't go searching for a laser equipped handgun based on that feature alone. I'm sorry, but I find most of this entire discussion hilarious. Red point lasers are not intended to *illuminate* a target, if you mean by that lighting it up. They are to tell you if you are pointing at your human target, and not to the left or right of or above your target. -------------------------------- I don't practice shooting using human targets. Well, then, why would you want a laser sight? They're not much good for target shooting. ---------------------------------------- If you re-read the thread you will find that I have stated that I think the lasers are worthless and wouldn't pay anything extra or seek out a particular gun only because it has one. The two handguns that I own that have them came standard with them. I don't use them. For reasons already stated in another post, I don't think they are of much value in a home defense, intruder situation either. I'd rather practice shooting at close range without sighting, using the handgun I'd reach for in the event of a home intruder. At 10-15 feet or so, I've become fairly proficient at hitting a small (8-inch) target, some near the bull's eye, with the 38 Chief's Special revolver, without sighting. |
Do I need this?
On 8/26/13 6:51 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
"F.O.A.D." wrote in message ... On 8/26/13 6:10 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: "F.O.A.D." wrote in message m... On 8/26/13 4:53 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: I wouldn't pay anything extra for a laser. If it comes standard with the gun, fine, but I wouldn't go searching for a laser equipped handgun based on that feature alone. I'm sorry, but I find most of this entire discussion hilarious. Red point lasers are not intended to *illuminate* a target, if you mean by that lighting it up. They are to tell you if you are pointing at your human target, and not to the left or right of or above your target. -------------------------------- I don't practice shooting using human targets. Well, then, why would you want a laser sight? They're not much good for target shooting. ---------------------------------------- If you re-read the thread you will find that I have stated that I think the lasers are worthless and wouldn't pay anything extra or seek out a particular gun only because it has one. The two handguns that I own that have them came standard with them. I don't use them. For reasons already stated in another post, I don't think they are of much value in a home defense, intruder situation either. I'd rather practice shooting at close range without sighting, using the handgun I'd reach for in the event of a home intruder. At 10-15 feet or so, I've become fairly proficient at hitting a small (8-inch) target, some near the bull's eye, with the 38 Chief's Special revolver, without sighting. Agreed. But I see some use for a pistol mounted flashlight, just to make sure you recognize that your target is not a family member. |
Do I need this?
"JustWaitAFrekinMinute" wrote in message ... Well, have a couple other ideas provided by a fiend but they are all "what if's"... soooooo... I will say, one of them involves yelling down the stairs (custom designed for my home at the time) " We are armed, the police are on the way, if you come up the stairs we will shoot you!" Our insurance agent taught a course in "use of deadly force for homeowners", and we were considering firearms at the time... ---------------------------------- Hopefully that would work for you, just like in the movies. I worry more about the meth/crack addict that wakes you as he enters your bedroom. These are unstable people who think they are invincible and don't respond to fear or threats. Or the professional burglar that panics when you confront him. How they got by the barking dogs and house alarm doesn't matter then. Those are the only reasons I keep a loaded handgun in our bedroom that I can get to very quickly. I am not paranoid. Just prepared. By day, it goes back in the safe. |
Do I need this?
On 8/26/2013 2:23 PM, John H wrote:
On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 00:54:49 -0400, wrote: On Sun, 25 Aug 2013 17:51:10 -0400, John H wrote: On Thu, 22 Aug 2013 19:25:28 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 22 Aug 2013 17:59:27 -0400, John H wrote: Beautiful gun. Nice price. http://tinyurl.com/ls8jvo5 John (Gun Nut) H. That is a lot of gun to carry. Kimber does make a nice mini 9mm that my neighbor has. It is $1500 or so. I'll check it out. Yup, that may be worth looking into. Thanks for the tip. http://tinyurl.com/l45sjgb John (Gun Nut) H. That looks like the one and he has the laser in the grip. Does he like it? Does he find he laser site helpful? I've seen only one in use at a range, and it magnified the 'shaking' so much the individual aiming the weapon finally turned it off. I think he was just embarrassed. John (Gun Nut) H. I should think it would help demonstrate why there might be inconsistant shot patterns. |
Do I need this?
On 8/26/2013 7:03 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
"JustWaitAFrekinMinute" wrote in message ... Well, have a couple other ideas provided by a fiend but they are all "what if's"... soooooo... I will say, one of them involves yelling down the stairs (custom designed for my home at the time) " We are armed, the police are on the way, if you come up the stairs we will shoot you!" Our insurance agent taught a course in "use of deadly force for homeowners", and we were considering firearms at the time... ---------------------------------- Hopefully that would work for you, just like in the movies. I worry more about the meth/crack addict that wakes you as he enters your bedroom. These are unstable people who think they are invincible and don't respond to fear or threats. Or the professional burglar that panics when you confront him. How they got by the barking dogs and house alarm doesn't matter then. Those are the only reasons I keep a loaded handgun in our bedroom that I can get to very quickly. I am not paranoid. Just prepared. By day, it goes back in the safe. Well, I agree 100%.. someone shows up in the door, I will attack without a second thought. If I hear them coming through a window, I might let them know I am coming armed and start swinging if they are still there when I get there... Either way, if I see them, it's on... |
Do I need this?
On 8/26/13 7:21 PM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote:
Well, I agree 100%.. someone shows up in the door, I will attack without a second thought. If I hear them coming through a window, I might let them know I am coming armed and start swinging if they are still there when I get there... Either way, if I see them, it's on... You think someone will break into your place to steal your motorbike from the kitchen? |
Do I need this?
"F.O.A.D." wrote in message ... On 8/26/13 6:51 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: "F.O.A.D." wrote in message ... On 8/26/13 6:10 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: "F.O.A.D." wrote in message m... On 8/26/13 4:53 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: I wouldn't pay anything extra for a laser. If it comes standard with the gun, fine, but I wouldn't go searching for a laser equipped handgun based on that feature alone. I'm sorry, but I find most of this entire discussion hilarious. Red point lasers are not intended to *illuminate* a target, if you mean by that lighting it up. They are to tell you if you are pointing at your human target, and not to the left or right of or above your target. -------------------------------- I don't practice shooting using human targets. Well, then, why would you want a laser sight? They're not much good for target shooting. ---------------------------------------- If you re-read the thread you will find that I have stated that I think the lasers are worthless and wouldn't pay anything extra or seek out a particular gun only because it has one. The two handguns that I own that have them came standard with them. I don't use them. For reasons already stated in another post, I don't think they are of much value in a home defense, intruder situation either. I'd rather practice shooting at close range without sighting, using the handgun I'd reach for in the event of a home intruder. At 10-15 feet or so, I've become fairly proficient at hitting a small (8-inch) target, some near the bull's eye, with the 38 Chief's Special revolver, without sighting. Agreed. But I see some use for a pistol mounted flashlight, just to make sure you recognize that your target is not a family member. ------------------------ Yeah. I've made it clear to our kids that if they have to visit the house late at night for some reason, to holler out until they get a response before coming in. The dogs will make a racket anyway. I am a fairly light sleeper and they often wake me up in the middle of the night when a deer or something goes walking across the driveway. |
Do I need this?
On 8/26/2013 5:46 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 8/26/13 4:53 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: "John H" wrote in message ... On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 00:54:49 -0400, wrote: That looks like the one and he has the laser in the grip. Does he like it? Does he find he laser site helpful? I've seen only one in use at a range, and it magnified the 'shaking' so much the individual aiming the weapon finally turned it off. I think he was just embarrassed. John (Gun Nut) H. ----------------------------------- Based on the limited experience I've had, I think the lasers installed in handguns are a total waste of time. Unless you shoot indoors at a somewhat darkened range, they aren't strong enough to illuminate the target. I do most of my range shooting at an outdoor range and the lasers are totally worthless. The Walther PPK and the S&W Bodyguard both have lasers. Can't see them outdoors at 25 yards. In fact, I can't see them even at 10 yards outside in sunlight. They work ok in the house but unless there's an intruder, what's the point? And if there was ever a life threatening confrontation with an intruder, it's going to be a relatively close range and I am not going to worry about taking the time to turn the stupid laser on. The only firearm I have that has a laser strong enough to see outdoors at a reasonable range is the one installed in the Ruger 10/22 rifle that I recently purchased. But, I still don't bother using it. It's a stronger laser but the battery life is limited. I mounted a scope on the rifle and, after boresighting and adjusting the laser, I used it to adjust and calibrate the scope. Haven't used it since. I wouldn't pay anything extra for a laser. If it comes standard with the gun, fine, but I wouldn't go searching for a laser equipped handgun based on that feature alone. I'm sorry, but I find most of this entire discussion hilarious. Red point lasers are not intended to *illuminate* a target, if you mean by that lighting it up. They are to tell you if you are pointing at your human target, and not to the left or right of or above your target. On a handgun, if you are shooting targets, a nice red dot sight like this one... http://tinyurl.com/nl8dkut ....from Burris is pretty good. With the right red dot sight, a good shooter with steady hands can place his rounds precisely. The red dot is "projected" within the sight, not onto the target. A good target pistol will easily accommodate a rail on which you can mount a red dot sight. You obviously have reading difficulties. The red spot indicates where the bullet is going. No one said otherwise. |
Do I need this?
On 8/26/2013 6:39 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 8/26/13 6:10 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: "F.O.A.D." wrote in message m... On 8/26/13 4:53 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: I wouldn't pay anything extra for a laser. If it comes standard with the gun, fine, but I wouldn't go searching for a laser equipped handgun based on that feature alone. I'm sorry, but I find most of this entire discussion hilarious. Red point lasers are not intended to *illuminate* a target, if you mean by that lighting it up. They are to tell you if you are pointing at your human target, and not to the left or right of or above your target. -------------------------------- I don't practice shooting using human targets. Well, then, why would you want a laser sight? They're not much good for target shooting. Why not? |
Do I need this?
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Do I need this?
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Do I need this?
"F.O.A.D." wrote in message m... On 8/26/13 4:53 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: I wouldn't pay anything extra for a laser. If it comes standard with the gun, fine, but I wouldn't go searching for a laser equipped handgun based on that feature alone. I'm sorry, but I find most of this entire discussion hilarious. Red point lasers are not intended to *illuminate* a target, if you mean by that lighting it up. They are to tell you if you are pointing at your human target, and not to the left or right of or above your target. -------------------------------- It just dawned on me what you were saying here. I am used to the term " to illuminate" with regard to a laser to be target designation, not "to illuminate" in the sense of putting light on something so it can be seen, such as with a flashlight. Obviously the laser installed on handguns don't light something up so you can see it. They just put a spot on where you are aiming. |
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