On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 13:15:12 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

We could have helped out the city of Detroit, but we blew those
trillions on Iraq and Afghanistan.

===

Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and
he will eat for the rest of his life.

How do you propose fixing Detroit's issues for the long term? They
could blow through a trillion or two in no time at all. The auto
industry is not coming back any time soon and that is what built
Detroit in the first place. I know people in upstate NY who are
still waiting for the paper and carpet making industies to come back,
and they started leaving over 60 years ago.

On 7/19/2013 4:35 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 13:15:12 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

We could have helped out the city of Detroit, but we blew those
trillions on Iraq and Afghanistan.


No jackass, we blew it on the sell ou....er, bail out... We gave it to
the Unions so they could party like it was 2099.... and they did. Now
it's gone, and it's time to pay the bill.
===

Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and
he will eat for the rest of his life.

How do you propose fixing Detroit's issues for the long term? They
could blow through a trillion or two in no time at all. The auto
industry is not coming back any time soon and that is what built
Detroit in the first place. I know people in upstate NY who are
still waiting for the paper and carpet making industies to come back,
and they started leaving over 60 years ago.

On 7/19/13 5:36 PM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote:
On 7/19/2013 4:35 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 13:15:12 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

We could have helped out the city of Detroit, but we blew those
trillions on Iraq and Afghanistan.


No jackass, we blew it on the sell ou....er, bail out... We gave it to
the Unions so they could party like it was 2099.... and they did. Now
it's gone, and it's time to pay the bill.
===

That's absolutely complete bull****.

That lil' Snottie guy is crazy as a bedbug.

In article ,
says...

On 7/19/13 5:36 PM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote:
On 7/19/2013 4:35 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 13:15:12 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

We could have helped out the city of Detroit, but we blew those
trillions on Iraq and Afghanistan.


No jackass, we blew it on the sell ou....er, bail out... We gave it to
the Unions so they could party like it was 2099.... and they did. Now
it's gone, and it's time to pay the bill.
===

That's absolutely complete bull****.

You didn't expect anything sane to come out of him, do you? His jawbone
keeps his brain from functioning properly. He said so right here!

In article ,
says...

On 7/19/2013 4:35 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 13:15:12 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

We could have helped out the city of Detroit, but we blew those
trillions on Iraq and Afghanistan.


No jackass, we blew it on the sell ou....er, bail out... We gave it to
the Unions so they could party like it was 2099.... and they did. Now
it's gone, and it's time to pay the bill.
===
Please, enlighten all of us who don't think off the wall crazy ****.
Show where the money went to the unions.

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,

says...

On 7/19/2013 4:35 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 13:15:12 -0400, "F.O.A.D."
wrote:

We could have helped out the city of Detroit, but we blew those
trillions on Iraq and Afghanistan.


No jackass, we blew it on the sell ou....er, bail out... We gave it
to
the Unions so they could party like it was 2099.... and they did.
Now
it's gone, and it's time to pay the bill.
===


Please, enlighten all of us who don't think off the wall crazy ****.
Show where the money went to the unions.

-------------------------------------

GM filed for Chapter 13 bankruptcy in 2009. Bankruptcy law requires
that creditors to the bankrupt corporation receive equal treatment in
terms of payments made to them. In other words, you can't pay one
creditor 75-100 percent of what he is owed and another creditor only
25-50 percent.

But in the case of GM, the union pension fund (VEBA) was given much
higher priority compared to other unsecured vendors, bond holders and
creditors. In the restructuring process GM was able to negotiate new
pay scales and benefit packages for new hires but was not successful
in reigning back costs significantly for existing union employees.
As a result, GM still has the highest labor cost of any of it's
competitors.

As of July 3, 2013, the American taxpayers are still in the hole to
the tune of $19 billion of the $50 billion GM bailout. That amount
is just about equal to the cost of retaining the pre-bankruptcy union
employees's payscale and benefit packages and is likely not to ever
be recovered.

On 7/20/13 4:58 PM, Eisboch wrote:


"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

On 7/19/2013 4:35 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 13:15:12 -0400, "F.O.A.D."
wrote:

We could have helped out the city of Detroit, but we blew those
trillions on Iraq and Afghanistan.


No jackass, we blew it on the sell ou....er, bail out... We gave it to
the Unions so they could party like it was 2099.... and they did. Now
it's gone, and it's time to pay the bill.
===


Please, enlighten all of us who don't think off the wall crazy ****.
Show where the money went to the unions.

-------------------------------------

GM filed for Chapter 13 bankruptcy in 2009. Bankruptcy law requires
that creditors to the bankrupt corporation receive equal treatment in
terms of payments made to them. In other words, you can't pay one
creditor 75-100 percent of what he is owed and another creditor only
25-50 percent.

But in the case of GM, the union pension fund (VEBA) was given much
higher priority compared to other unsecured vendors, bond holders and
creditors. In the restructuring process GM was able to negotiate new
pay scales and benefit packages for new hires but was not successful in
reigning back costs significantly for existing union employees. As a
result, GM still has the highest labor cost of any of it's competitors.

As of July 3, 2013, the American taxpayers are still in the hole to the
tune of $19 billion of the $50 billion GM bailout. That amount is just
about equal to the cost of retaining the pre-bankruptcy union
employees's payscale and benefit packages and is likely not to ever be
recovered.


This is what happens when employers are allowed to have unfunded pension
liabilities. It's true at many corporations and municipalities, and it
shouldn't be allowed. It's just another way for employers to screw their
employees.

"F.O.A.D." wrote:
On 7/20/13 4:58 PM, Eisboch wrote:


"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

On 7/19/2013 4:35 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 13:15:12 -0400, "F.O.A.D."
wrote:

We could have helped out the city of Detroit, but we blew those
trillions on Iraq and Afghanistan.


No jackass, we blew it on the sell ou....er, bail out... We gave it to
the Unions so they could party like it was 2099.... and they did. Now
it's gone, and it's time to pay the bill.
===


Please, enlighten all of us who don't think off the wall crazy ****.
Show where the money went to the unions.

-------------------------------------

GM filed for Chapter 13 bankruptcy in 2009. Bankruptcy law requires
that creditors to the bankrupt corporation receive equal treatment in
terms of payments made to them. In other words, you can't pay one
creditor 75-100 percent of what he is owed and another creditor only
25-50 percent.

But in the case of GM, the union pension fund (VEBA) was given much
higher priority compared to other unsecured vendors, bond holders and
creditors. In the restructuring process GM was able to negotiate new
pay scales and benefit packages for new hires but was not successful in
reigning back costs significantly for existing union employees. As a
result, GM still has the highest labor cost of any of it's competitors.

As of July 3, 2013, the American taxpayers are still in the hole to the
tune of $19 billion of the $50 billion GM bailout. That amount is just
about equal to the cost of retaining the pre-bankruptcy union
employees's payscale and benefit packages and is likely not to ever be
recovered.


This is what happens when employers are allowed to have unfunded pension
liabilities. It's true at many corporations and municipalities, and it
shouldn't be allowed. It's just another way for employers to screw their employees.

Absolutely correct. And if this was the law, the California taxpayers
would not be on the hook for hundreds of billions in unfunded state and
local government union labor pensions. We would negotiate affordable
contracts!

On 7/20/13 6:24 PM, Califbill wrote:
"F.O.A.D." wrote:
On 7/20/13 4:58 PM, Eisboch wrote:


"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

On 7/19/2013 4:35 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 13:15:12 -0400, "F.O.A.D."
wrote:

We could have helped out the city of Detroit, but we blew those
trillions on Iraq and Afghanistan.


No jackass, we blew it on the sell ou....er, bail out... We gave it to
the Unions so they could party like it was 2099.... and they did. Now
it's gone, and it's time to pay the bill.
===


Please, enlighten all of us who don't think off the wall crazy ****.
Show where the money went to the unions.

-------------------------------------

GM filed for Chapter 13 bankruptcy in 2009. Bankruptcy law requires
that creditors to the bankrupt corporation receive equal treatment in
terms of payments made to them. In other words, you can't pay one
creditor 75-100 percent of what he is owed and another creditor only
25-50 percent.

But in the case of GM, the union pension fund (VEBA) was given much
higher priority compared to other unsecured vendors, bond holders and
creditors. In the restructuring process GM was able to negotiate new
pay scales and benefit packages for new hires but was not successful in
reigning back costs significantly for existing union employees. As a
result, GM still has the highest labor cost of any of it's competitors.

As of July 3, 2013, the American taxpayers are still in the hole to the
tune of $19 billion of the $50 billion GM bailout. That amount is just
about equal to the cost of retaining the pre-bankruptcy union
employees's payscale and benefit packages and is likely not to ever be
recovered.


This is what happens when employers are allowed to have unfunded pension
liabilities. It's true at many corporations and municipalities, and it
shouldn't be allowed. It's just another way for employers to screw their employees.

Absolutely correct. And if this was the law, the California taxpayers
would not be on the hook for hundreds of billions in unfunded state and
local government union labor pensions. We would negotiate affordable
contracts!


For many decades, state and local government employees gave up getting
decent wages for good health care and pension plans. Now the righties
want to **** them out of those, too.