"F.O.A.D." wrote:
On 7/20/13 4:58 PM, Eisboch wrote:


"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

On 7/19/2013 4:35 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 13:15:12 -0400, "F.O.A.D."
wrote:

We could have helped out the city of Detroit, but we blew those
trillions on Iraq and Afghanistan.


No jackass, we blew it on the sell ou....er, bail out... We gave it to
the Unions so they could party like it was 2099.... and they did. Now
it's gone, and it's time to pay the bill.
===


Please, enlighten all of us who don't think off the wall crazy ****.
Show where the money went to the unions.

-------------------------------------

GM filed for Chapter 13 bankruptcy in 2009. Bankruptcy law requires
that creditors to the bankrupt corporation receive equal treatment in
terms of payments made to them. In other words, you can't pay one
creditor 75-100 percent of what he is owed and another creditor only
25-50 percent.

But in the case of GM, the union pension fund (VEBA) was given much
higher priority compared to other unsecured vendors, bond holders and
creditors. In the restructuring process GM was able to negotiate new
pay scales and benefit packages for new hires but was not successful in
reigning back costs significantly for existing union employees. As a
result, GM still has the highest labor cost of any of it's competitors.

As of July 3, 2013, the American taxpayers are still in the hole to the
tune of $19 billion of the $50 billion GM bailout. That amount is just
about equal to the cost of retaining the pre-bankruptcy union
employees's payscale and benefit packages and is likely not to ever be
recovered.


This is what happens when employers are allowed to have unfunded pension
liabilities. It's true at many corporations and municipalities, and it
shouldn't be allowed. It's just another way for employers to screw their employees.

Absolutely correct. And if this was the law, the California taxpayers
would not be on the hook for hundreds of billions in unfunded state and
local government union labor pensions. We would negotiate affordable
contracts!

On 7/20/13 6:24 PM, Califbill wrote:
"F.O.A.D." wrote:
On 7/20/13 4:58 PM, Eisboch wrote:


"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

On 7/19/2013 4:35 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 13:15:12 -0400, "F.O.A.D."
wrote:

We could have helped out the city of Detroit, but we blew those
trillions on Iraq and Afghanistan.


No jackass, we blew it on the sell ou....er, bail out... We gave it to
the Unions so they could party like it was 2099.... and they did. Now
it's gone, and it's time to pay the bill.
===


Please, enlighten all of us who don't think off the wall crazy ****.
Show where the money went to the unions.

-------------------------------------

GM filed for Chapter 13 bankruptcy in 2009. Bankruptcy law requires
that creditors to the bankrupt corporation receive equal treatment in
terms of payments made to them. In other words, you can't pay one
creditor 75-100 percent of what he is owed and another creditor only
25-50 percent.

But in the case of GM, the union pension fund (VEBA) was given much
higher priority compared to other unsecured vendors, bond holders and
creditors. In the restructuring process GM was able to negotiate new
pay scales and benefit packages for new hires but was not successful in
reigning back costs significantly for existing union employees. As a
result, GM still has the highest labor cost of any of it's competitors.

As of July 3, 2013, the American taxpayers are still in the hole to the
tune of $19 billion of the $50 billion GM bailout. That amount is just
about equal to the cost of retaining the pre-bankruptcy union
employees's payscale and benefit packages and is likely not to ever be
recovered.


This is what happens when employers are allowed to have unfunded pension
liabilities. It's true at many corporations and municipalities, and it
shouldn't be allowed. It's just another way for employers to screw their employees.

Absolutely correct. And if this was the law, the California taxpayers
would not be on the hook for hundreds of billions in unfunded state and
local government union labor pensions. We would negotiate affordable
contracts!


For many decades, state and local government employees gave up getting
decent wages for good health care and pension plans. Now the righties
want to **** them out of those, too.

"F.O.A.D." wrote:
On 7/20/13 6:24 PM, Califbill wrote:
"F.O.A.D." wrote:
On 7/20/13 4:58 PM, Eisboch wrote:


"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

On 7/19/2013 4:35 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 13:15:12 -0400, "F.O.A.D."
wrote:

We could have helped out the city of Detroit, but we blew those
trillions on Iraq and Afghanistan.


No jackass, we blew it on the sell ou....er, bail out... We gave it to
the Unions so they could party like it was 2099.... and they did. Now
it's gone, and it's time to pay the bill.
===


Please, enlighten all of us who don't think off the wall crazy ****.
Show where the money went to the unions.

-------------------------------------

GM filed for Chapter 13 bankruptcy in 2009. Bankruptcy law requires
that creditors to the bankrupt corporation receive equal treatment in
terms of payments made to them. In other words, you can't pay one
creditor 75-100 percent of what he is owed and another creditor only
25-50 percent.

But in the case of GM, the union pension fund (VEBA) was given much
higher priority compared to other unsecured vendors, bond holders and
creditors. In the restructuring process GM was able to negotiate new
pay scales and benefit packages for new hires but was not successful in
reigning back costs significantly for existing union employees. As a
result, GM still has the highest labor cost of any of it's competitors.

As of July 3, 2013, the American taxpayers are still in the hole to the
tune of $19 billion of the $50 billion GM bailout. That amount is just
about equal to the cost of retaining the pre-bankruptcy union
employees's payscale and benefit packages and is likely not to ever be
recovered.


This is what happens when employers are allowed to have unfunded pension
liabilities. It's true at many corporations and municipalities, and it
shouldn't be allowed. It's just another way for employers to screw their employees.

Absolutely correct. And if this was the law, the California taxpayers
would not be on the hook for hundreds of billions in unfunded state and
local government union labor pensions. We would negotiate affordable
contracts!


For many decades, state and local government employees gave up getting
decent wages for good health care and pension plans. Now the righties
want to **** them out of those, too.

They were never underpaid for their work.

wrote:
On Sat, 20 Jul 2013 18:26:40 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

For many decades, state and local government employees gave up getting
decent wages for good health care and pension plans. Now the righties
want to **** them out of those, too.


You are delusional. Even in a right to work state like Florida, the
state and local government employees make a salary commensurate or
better than private sector workers and in a lot of cases much better
PLUS a fat benefit package that your private sector guy does not get.

The retired cop across the street from me makes about $70,000 ... TAX
FREE and gets insurance.

My cousin is a retired sheriff deputy. About $120k a year pension. They
spike there last year by collecting unused vacation and sick pay.

On 7/21/13 12:09 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 20 Jul 2013 18:26:40 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

For many decades, state and local government employees gave up getting
decent wages for good health care and pension plans. Now the righties
want to **** them out of those, too.


You are delusional. Even in a right to work state like Florida, the
state and local government employees make a salary commensurate or
better than private sector workers and in a lot of cases much better
PLUS a fat benefit package that your private sector guy does not get.

The retired cop across the street from me makes about $70,000 ... TAX
FREE and gets insurance.


Oh, dear. An almost reasonable retirement. Maybe you should work to
eliminate that pension or at least cut it in half, eh? If you did, why,
there would be more money to be grabbed by the Romney crowd, eh?

On 7/21/13 7:30 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jul 2013 06:56:31 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 7/21/13 12:09 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 20 Jul 2013 18:26:40 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

For many decades, state and local government employees gave up getting
decent wages for good health care and pension plans. Now the righties
want to **** them out of those, too.


You are delusional. Even in a right to work state like Florida, the
state and local government employees make a salary commensurate or
better than private sector workers and in a lot of cases much better
PLUS a fat benefit package that your private sector guy does not get.

The retired cop across the street from me makes about $70,000 ... TAX
FREE and gets insurance.


Oh, dear. An almost reasonable retirement. Maybe you should work to
eliminate that pension or at least cut it in half, eh? If you did, why,
there would be more money to be grabbed by the Romney crowd, eh?

My private sector pension is about a third of that and I have to pay
taxes on it. It would not break my heart if I was a citizen of that
northern city and they trimmed a little off that pension ... and my
tax bill.





That's really funny. The retired cop's employer negotiated a contract
with his union and you want to bust that agreement because he has an
almost decent pension from his former employer and you don't.

Tax free??
No wonder 'merica is teetering on bankruptcy

In article ,
says...

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,

says...

On 7/19/2013 4:35 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 13:15:12 -0400, "F.O.A.D."
wrote:

We could have helped out the city of Detroit, but we blew those
trillions on Iraq and Afghanistan.


No jackass, we blew it on the sell ou....er, bail out... We gave it
to
the Unions so they could party like it was 2099.... and they did.
Now
it's gone, and it's time to pay the bill.
===


Please, enlighten all of us who don't think off the wall crazy ****.
Show where the money went to the unions.

-------------------------------------

GM filed for Chapter 13 bankruptcy in 2009. Bankruptcy law requires
that creditors to the bankrupt corporation receive equal treatment in
terms of payments made to them. In other words, you can't pay one
creditor 75-100 percent of what he is owed and another creditor only
25-50 percent.

But in the case of GM, the union pension fund (VEBA) was given much
higher priority compared to other unsecured vendors, bond holders and
creditors. In the restructuring process GM was able to negotiate new
pay scales and benefit packages for new hires but was not successful
in reigning back costs significantly for existing union employees.
As a result, GM still has the highest labor cost of any of it's
competitors.

As of July 3, 2013, the American taxpayers are still in the hole to
the tune of $19 billion of the $50 billion GM bailout. That amount
is just about equal to the cost of retaining the pre-bankruptcy union
employees's payscale and benefit packages and is likely not to ever
be recovered.

That is compensation for money's owed to them. That's very different
than Scotty's bull**** statement that they bailout money "we gave to the
unions".

In article ,
says...

On 7/20/2013 4:58 PM, Eisboch wrote:


"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

On 7/19/2013 4:35 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 13:15:12 -0400, "F.O.A.D."
wrote:

We could have helped out the city of Detroit, but we blew those
trillions on Iraq and Afghanistan.


No jackass, we blew it on the sell ou....er, bail out... We gave it to
the Unions so they could party like it was 2099.... and they did. Now
it's gone, and it's time to pay the bill.
===


Please, enlighten all of us who don't think off the wall crazy ****.
Show where the money went to the unions.

-------------------------------------

GM filed for Chapter 13 bankruptcy in 2009. Bankruptcy law requires
that creditors to the bankrupt corporation receive equal treatment in
terms of payments made to them. In other words, you can't pay one
creditor 75-100 percent of what he is owed and another creditor only
25-50 percent.

But in the case of GM, the union pension fund (VEBA) was given much
higher priority compared to other unsecured vendors, bond holders and
creditors. In the restructuring process GM was able to negotiate new
pay scales and benefit packages for new hires but was not successful in
reigning back costs significantly for existing union employees. As a
result, GM still has the highest labor cost of any of it's competitors.

As of July 3, 2013, the American taxpayers are still in the hole to the
tune of $19 billion of the $50 billion GM bailout. That amount is just
about equal to the cost of retaining the pre-bankruptcy union
employees's payscale and benefit packages and is likely not to ever be
recovered.

In other words.. for about the millionth time, I am right, kevin is
jealous...

You stupid fool!!!! YOU said we "gave the (bailout) money to the
unions". That's bull****, and yes, Eisboch is right, and that makes YOU
WRONG, but you're too insane to see that. Do you really think that
KevinLoogyPlumeTom is real? You need serious help if so, and why would
this imaginary friend of yours be "jealous" of an insane fool like you
who claims that his insane babble is a direct cause/affect of his jaw
being smashed in?

In article ,
says...

On 7/20/13 5:49 PM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote:
On 7/20/2013 4:58 PM, Eisboch wrote:


"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

On 7/19/2013 4:35 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 13:15:12 -0400, "F.O.A.D."
wrote:

We could have helped out the city of Detroit, but we blew those
trillions on Iraq and Afghanistan.


No jackass, we blew it on the sell ou....er, bail out... We gave it to
the Unions so they could party like it was 2099.... and they did. Now
it's gone, and it's time to pay the bill.
===


Please, enlighten all of us who don't think off the wall crazy ****.
Show where the money went to the unions.

-------------------------------------

GM filed for Chapter 13 bankruptcy in 2009. Bankruptcy law requires
that creditors to the bankrupt corporation receive equal treatment in
terms of payments made to them. In other words, you can't pay one
creditor 75-100 percent of what he is owed and another creditor only
25-50 percent.

But in the case of GM, the union pension fund (VEBA) was given much
higher priority compared to other unsecured vendors, bond holders and
creditors. In the restructuring process GM was able to negotiate new
pay scales and benefit packages for new hires but was not successful in
reigning back costs significantly for existing union employees. As a
result, GM still has the highest labor cost of any of it's competitors.

As of July 3, 2013, the American taxpayers are still in the hole to the
tune of $19 billion of the $50 billion GM bailout. That amount is just
about equal to the cost of retaining the pre-bankruptcy union
employees's payscale and benefit packages and is likely not to ever be
recovered.

In other words.. for about the millionth time, I am right, kevin is
jealous...


Second funny of this day, and from the rec.boats lunatic.

His jawbone is acting up again.....