On Wed, 01 May 2013 20:05:45 -0400, wrote:

This came about because the 2 wire devices do not work with LEDs and
CFLs. They work OK with incandescents.

===

For us laymen, can you explain why that is?

On 5/1/2013 8:29 PM, Wayne B wrote:
On Wed, 01 May 2013 20:05:45 -0400, wrote:

This came about because the 2 wire devices do not work with LEDs and
CFLs. They work OK with incandescents.

===

For us laymen, can you explain why that is?


I'd like to know too. I have almost 40 LEDs working with 2 wires. There
are of course three wires in the fixture but one of them is ground and
not part of the circuit.

On 5/1/2013 10:08 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 01 May 2013 22:20:10 -0400, Hank©
wrote:

On 5/1/2013 8:29 PM, Wayne B wrote:
On Wed, 01 May 2013 20:05:45 -0400, wrote:

This came about because the 2 wire devices do not work with LEDs and
CFLs. They work OK with incandescents.

===

For us laymen, can you explain why that is?


I'd like to know too. I have almost 40 LEDs working with 2 wires. There
are of course three wires in the fixture but one of them is ground and
not part of the circuit.

The 3 wires are at the switch and it is required if you use electronic
switching and don't power the circuit through the load.
That would be typical of any occupancy sensor or timer that is a drop
in replacement for a snap switch.
In some of my applications I use the regular motion detector heads you
use outside and they have a relay for the switch so they will run
anything but you need a neutral for them.


I'll have to take your word for it. I wasn't aware that a ground is used
to complete a live circuit. Sounds hokey to me but I won't argue with you.

On 5/2/2013 2:05 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 02 May 2013 00:48:31 -0400, Hank©
wrote:

On 5/1/2013 10:08 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 01 May 2013 22:20:10 -0400, Hank©
wrote:

On 5/1/2013 8:29 PM, Wayne B wrote:
On Wed, 01 May 2013 20:05:45 -0400, wrote:

This came about because the 2 wire devices do not work with LEDs and
CFLs. They work OK with incandescents.

===

For us laymen, can you explain why that is?


I'd like to know too. I have almost 40 LEDs working with 2 wires. There
are of course three wires in the fixture but one of them is ground and
not part of the circuit.

The 3 wires are at the switch and it is required if you use electronic
switching and don't power the circuit through the load.
That would be typical of any occupancy sensor or timer that is a drop
in replacement for a snap switch.
In some of my applications I use the regular motion detector heads you
use outside and they have a relay for the switch so they will run
anything but you need a neutral for them.


I'll have to take your word for it. I wasn't aware that a ground is used
to complete a live circuit. Sounds hokey to me but I won't argue with you.

They used the ground for the electronics in some of the old designs
and the U/L standard was 500ua.

That would still be 1/10th of what it takes to trip a GFCI so it was
not seen as a safety issue.

Sounds like you'd have some pretty confused electrons running around if
you used many of those sort of devices.

On 5/1/2013 9:35 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 01 May 2013 20:29:10 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

On Wed, 01 May 2013 20:05:45 -0400, wrote:

This came about because the 2 wire devices do not work with LEDs and
CFLs. They work OK with incandescents.

===

For us laymen, can you explain why that is?

The switcher power supply in a CFL will store the minuscule current
the 2 wire line powered devices use and when the filter capacitor
reaches the point that the switcher generates a usable amount of
power, it flashes. This becomes a relaxation oscillator.
I have tried CFLs in a couple of my occupancy sensor locations and
they all flash. You can usually get by this by putting a small
incandescent in parallel with the CFL.
I have a 15' string of LED rope light on a SSR (triac) controlled
circuit and it never really turns off. You always see a dim glow
coming from it.
You sort of defeat the purpose of using a 13w CFL or LED if you have
to put a 15w light bulb in there to turn the switch off.


Your life is too complicated by this stuff.

In article ,
says...

On Wed, 01 May 2013 22:44:14 -0400, Hank©
wrote:


Your life is too complicated by this stuff.

Once you get a good array of motion and occupancy sensors in place,
you start wondering why you didn't do it sooner.
This actually started over a quarter century ago when I saw my wife
and daughter using the open refrigerator as a night light.

You gotta be kidding. Even 100 year-old houses are wired with wall
switches by the door. Have you ever heard of flashlights and nite-
lites?

That was my first indoor motion detector, turning on a small light
that lit up the kitchen, dining room and hallway. Now everywhere you
go around he house, inside or out, the light follows you.
The only places that don't have detectors are the bedrooms.
Inside it is really just 5 strategically located detectors and some
low level lighting.

I bet my dogs would be shocked as they wander around the house.
Wonder what all that on/off does for bulb longevity. We have one small
CFL in the range hood that provides almost whole house night light.
Illuminates enough to avoid tripping everywhere, including the bedrooms
if the door is open. My basement isn't wired up for lighting, so I just
keep a 3 dollar LED flashlight on a shelf at the foot of the stairs to
get to the one wall switch 20 feet away in the dark. Haven't even
changed the batteries in about 4 years.
Different strokes.

My house..built 71 years ago in the middle of WW2 when this city was booming supplying Britain with badly needed supplies had the same basic basement when we bought in 1985.
I ran plugs, electric lights and electric baseboard heaters everywhere.

On 5/2/2013 7:48 AM, True North wrote:
My house..built 71 years ago in the middle of WW2 when this city was booming supplying Britain with badly needed supplies had the same basic basement when we bought in 1985.
I ran plugs, electric lights and electric baseboard heaters everywhere.

Are you still running Knob and tube?

Never did.

True North wrote:
Never did.
How insightful! Thank you for your contribution.