On Wed, 27 Mar 2013 20:15:58 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:



"J Herring" wrote in message
.. .

On Wed, 27 Mar 2013 06:47:36 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

2. Require mandatory safety training for issuance of the permit.
The training should be more extensive than a single 5 hour session.
I was very surprised at the sketchy training required in MA in
order to obtain a LTC. It should be much longer and cover more.


My wife just completed a five hour course in gun safety and firing.
How much more time should be
spent in telling a person that every gun is loaded, point only down
range, and don't put finger on
the trigger until ready to shoot.

What kinds of things would you add to the course that should require
a lot more time.

-----------------------------------------------------

Much more time in handling, loading, firing and cleaning of different
popular gun types.
Much more on general awareness of things like how far a round travels
for different gun types.
How to properly and safely "carry".
How to safely deal with jammed guns or "stovepipes".
Review of pertinent laws related to gun ownership and transfers.
Much more range time and instruction, especially for those who are new
to guns.

Finally, there should be a test. A real one, not a phony self
correct, self grade type thing like the one I took.

I can probably think up a few dozen more.

My oldest son and his wife both received their LTC in Massachusetts
before relocating to South Carolina.
Neither of them had any experience at all with guns. They took a
course that lasted for a month, meeting two or three times a week. 20
hours of instruction, then they spent 3 Saturdays at a range shooting
under instruction for a couple of hours each day.

When I took the course, it was one morning ... four hours of
"instruction" and one hour at the range. He covered the basics that
any idiot would know. The state has a checklist of items to be
covered, from handling guns to road rage. In many cases the
instructor just read the checklist off to us so he could claim he
covered them all.

I've learned more by reading by myself and from talking to experienced
gun owners at the range I belong to.

Experience is a great teacher. You covered a lot of items there...many of which she has no need to
know, like 'safely carry' (she's not), cleaning (which would have to include disassembly), dealing
with jams (call the Range Safety guy), and 'much more range time and instruction'. If she wants to
be a good shot with various weapons and be able to disassemble and reassemble then perhaps you're
right. But, she certainly doesn't *need* all that to be comfortable with loading and shooting a
weapon - safely. The pertinent laws were part of the class. She fired a revolver (.38 Special) and
an M&P 9mm. She has no need to learn about a lot of different weapons and ammunition.


Salmonbait

--
'Name-calling'...the liberals' last resort.

"J Herring" wrote in message
...


Experience is a great teacher. You covered a lot of items there...many
of which she has no need to
know, like 'safely carry' (she's not), cleaning (which would have to
include disassembly), dealing
with jams (call the Range Safety guy), and 'much more range time and
instruction'. If she wants to
be a good shot with various weapons and be able to disassemble and
reassemble then perhaps you're
right. But, she certainly doesn't *need* all that to be comfortable
with loading and shooting a
weapon - safely. The pertinent laws were part of the class. She fired
a revolver (.38 Special) and
an M&P 9mm. She has no need to learn about a lot of different weapons
and ammunition.


----------------------------------------------

Well, we'll have to disagree. If you think your wife (or anyone for
that matter) "doesn't need" to know how to disassemble, clean, deal
with jams (just call the RSO ???? ... I can't believe you said that)
..... then I'll have to make sure I never visit the range she shoots
at.

I bought some .380 "Snap-Caps" and spent an hour or so trying to
intentionally cause a jam in both the Walther PPK/S and the S&W
Bodyguard. I bought them purposely because they often don't work well
in some gun models .... just like some manufacturer's live rounds
don't always work well with certain gun models. I succeeded with
the Walther, causing a Snap-Cap to become wedged and stuck in the
chamber and the next Snap-Cap round in the magazine to jam up and out
of place behind it. In this situation, the magazine could not be
released (it was also jammed) and holding the slide back and shaking
the gun or pushing at the jammed round would not clear it. I finally
managed to get the jammed magazine round out, release and remove the
clip, but the chambered Snap-Cap wouldn't drop out. It was jammed
solid within the barrel. Finally got it out by lightly tapping on
the "lead end" with one of my cleaning rods.

I did this because a similar jam occurred the first time I used that
gun, except it was with live ammo. It took two of us to clear it, one
holding the slide back as far as it would go (it wouldn't lock) and
the other pressing the magazine release button while tugging on the
bottom of the magazine at the same time.

I learned that the Walther doesn't like ammo manufactured by
Independence. Since then I buy Winchester, Remington or Federal and
have not had any problems.

So what if something like this happened to your wife "on the range"
and the RSO wasn't around?

On Fri, 29 Mar 2013 17:45:29 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:



"J Herring" wrote in message
.. .


Experience is a great teacher. You covered a lot of items there...many
of which she has no need to
know, like 'safely carry' (she's not), cleaning (which would have to
include disassembly), dealing
with jams (call the Range Safety guy), and 'much more range time and
instruction'. If she wants to
be a good shot with various weapons and be able to disassemble and
reassemble then perhaps you're
right. But, she certainly doesn't *need* all that to be comfortable
with loading and shooting a
weapon - safely. The pertinent laws were part of the class. She fired
a revolver (.38 Special) and
an M&P 9mm. She has no need to learn about a lot of different weapons
and ammunition.


----------------------------------------------

Well, we'll have to disagree. If you think your wife (or anyone for
that matter) "doesn't need" to know how to disassemble, clean, deal
with jams (just call the RSO ???? ... I can't believe you said that)
.... then I'll have to make sure I never visit the range she shoots
at.

I bought some .380 "Snap-Caps" and spent an hour or so trying to
intentionally cause a jam in both the Walther PPK/S and the S&W
Bodyguard. I bought them purposely because they often don't work well
in some gun models .... just like some manufacturer's live rounds
don't always work well with certain gun models. I succeeded with
the Walther, causing a Snap-Cap to become wedged and stuck in the
chamber and the next Snap-Cap round in the magazine to jam up and out
of place behind it. In this situation, the magazine could not be
released (it was also jammed) and holding the slide back and shaking
the gun or pushing at the jammed round would not clear it. I finally
managed to get the jammed magazine round out, release and remove the
clip, but the chambered Snap-Cap wouldn't drop out. It was jammed
solid within the barrel. Finally got it out by lightly tapping on
the "lead end" with one of my cleaning rods.

I did this because a similar jam occurred the first time I used that
gun, except it was with live ammo. It took two of us to clear it, one
holding the slide back as far as it would go (it wouldn't lock) and
the other pressing the magazine release button while tugging on the
bottom of the magazine at the same time.

I learned that the Walther doesn't like ammo manufactured by
Independence. Since then I buy Winchester, Remington or Federal and
have not had any problems.

So what if something like this happened to your wife "on the range"
and the RSO wasn't around?



The ranges at which we shoot have extremely knowledgeable safety officers. And, she doesn't go to a
range without me. We have practiced with snap caps at home. She can disassemble the M&P 9 because I
taught her how to do so. For the instructor to have taught each student how to disassemble and clean
their own weapons would have been unreasonable.

Anytime my wife is shooting someplace besides a range, I'll be there. I don't expect her to be an
expert in firearms.


Salmonbait

--
'Name-calling'...the liberals' last resort.

On Fri, 29 Mar 2013 17:45:29 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:



"J Herring" wrote in message
.. .


Experience is a great teacher. You covered a lot of items there...many
of which she has no need to
know, like 'safely carry' (she's not), cleaning (which would have to
include disassembly), dealing
with jams (call the Range Safety guy), and 'much more range time and
instruction'. If she wants to
be a good shot with various weapons and be able to disassemble and
reassemble then perhaps you're
right. But, she certainly doesn't *need* all that to be comfortable
with loading and shooting a
weapon - safely. The pertinent laws were part of the class. She fired
a revolver (.38 Special) and
an M&P 9mm. She has no need to learn about a lot of different weapons
and ammunition.


----------------------------------------------

Well, we'll have to disagree. If you think your wife (or anyone for
that matter) "doesn't need" to know how to disassemble, clean, deal
with jams (just call the RSO ???? ... I can't believe you said that)
.... then I'll have to make sure I never visit the range she shoots
at.

I bought some .380 "Snap-Caps" and spent an hour or so trying to
intentionally cause a jam in both the Walther PPK/S and the S&W
Bodyguard. I bought them purposely because they often don't work well
in some gun models .... just like some manufacturer's live rounds
don't always work well with certain gun models. I succeeded with
the Walther, causing a Snap-Cap to become wedged and stuck in the
chamber and the next Snap-Cap round in the magazine to jam up and out
of place behind it. In this situation, the magazine could not be
released (it was also jammed) and holding the slide back and shaking
the gun or pushing at the jammed round would not clear it. I finally
managed to get the jammed magazine round out, release and remove the
clip, but the chambered Snap-Cap wouldn't drop out. It was jammed
solid within the barrel. Finally got it out by lightly tapping on
the "lead end" with one of my cleaning rods.

I did this because a similar jam occurred the first time I used that
gun, except it was with live ammo. It took two of us to clear it, one
holding the slide back as far as it would go (it wouldn't lock) and
the other pressing the magazine release button while tugging on the
bottom of the magazine at the same time.

I learned that the Walther doesn't like ammo manufactured by
Independence. Since then I buy Winchester, Remington or Federal and
have not had any problems.

So what if something like this happened to your wife "on the range"
and the RSO wasn't around?



BTW, has your wife taken the course which teaches all the items you covered?


Salmonbait

--
'Name-calling'...the liberals' last resort.

"J Herring" wrote in message
...


BTW, has your wife taken the course which teaches all the items you
covered?

===============================================


My wife has no desire to even hold or look at a gun, let alone shoot
one. If she did, and wanted to get a permit to own one, I'd recommend
she take the course that my son and his wife took that was far more
extensive. In anticipation of your next question, all my guns are
kept in a safe in my house and the only other person other than me who
has the combination is my son in South Carolina (in case something
should happen to us.)

My point in my original post was that I found the simple, 5 hour
course required to get a LTC in MA is marginally worthwhile,
especially for people who are not familiar with firearms or have
little or no experience with using them. I think that is a little
ironic for a state that otherwise has some very strict gun ownership
laws.

On Fri, 29 Mar 2013 23:10:12 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:



"J Herring" wrote in message
.. .


BTW, has your wife taken the course which teaches all the items you
covered?

===============================================


My wife has no desire to even hold or look at a gun, let alone shoot
one. If she did, and wanted to get a permit to own one, I'd recommend
she take the course that my son and his wife took that was far more
extensive. In anticipation of your next question, all my guns are
kept in a safe in my house and the only other person other than me who
has the combination is my son in South Carolina (in case something
should happen to us.)

My point in my original post was that I found the simple, 5 hour
course required to get a LTC in MA is marginally worthwhile,
especially for people who are not familiar with firearms or have
little or no experience with using them. I think that is a little
ironic for a state that otherwise has some very strict gun ownership
laws.


There is a whole list of courses available for my wife (and me, possibly) to take if we desire. They
include advanced handgun, personal protection, concealed carry, pistol cleaning and maintenance,
Utah/multi-state concealed carry, and a pot full of rifle courses. She took the basic pistol course.
Good catch on my next question. We do keep a loaded gun in the house, and have for many years. When
I saw the class given by a woman for women, I thought my wife would be interested. She was. Now
she's wanting me to take her to the range. It won't be in the woods shooting at stumps. Last night,
while going out for dinner, she mentioned getting a carry permit. So, she may be taking the next
courses sooner than I thought!


Salmonbait

--
'Name-calling'...the liberals' last resort.

On 3/30/13 7:47 AM, J Herring wrote:
On Fri, 29 Mar 2013 23:10:12 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:



"J Herring" wrote in message
...


BTW, has your wife taken the course which teaches all the items you
covered?

===============================================


My wife has no desire to even hold or look at a gun, let alone shoot
one. If she did, and wanted to get a permit to own one, I'd recommend
she take the course that my son and his wife took that was far more
extensive. In anticipation of your next question, all my guns are
kept in a safe in my house and the only other person other than me who
has the combination is my son in South Carolina (in case something
should happen to us.)

My point in my original post was that I found the simple, 5 hour
course required to get a LTC in MA is marginally worthwhile,
especially for people who are not familiar with firearms or have
little or no experience with using them. I think that is a little
ironic for a state that otherwise has some very strict gun ownership
laws.


There is a whole list of courses available for my wife (and me, possibly) to take if we desire. They
include advanced handgun, personal protection, concealed carry, pistol cleaning and maintenance,
Utah/multi-state concealed carry, and a pot full of rifle courses. She took the basic pistol course.
Good catch on my next question. We do keep a loaded gun in the house, and have for many years. When
I saw the class given by a woman for women, I thought my wife would be interested. She was. Now
she's wanting me to take her to the range. It won't be in the woods shooting at stumps. Last night,
while going out for dinner, she mentioned getting a carry permit. So, she may be taking the next
courses sooner than I thought!


Salmonbait

--
'Name-calling'...the liberals' last resort.


Oh, boy! Be sure to keep us posted...I don't often watch the local news
on TV.

On 3/30/2013 7:48 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 3/30/13 7:47 AM, J Herring wrote:
On Fri, 29 Mar 2013 23:10:12 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:



"J Herring" wrote in message
...


BTW, has your wife taken the course which teaches all the items you
covered?

===============================================


My wife has no desire to even hold or look at a gun, let alone shoot
one. If she did, and wanted to get a permit to own one, I'd recommend
she take the course that my son and his wife took that was far more
extensive. In anticipation of your next question, all my guns are
kept in a safe in my house and the only other person other than me who
has the combination is my son in South Carolina (in case something
should happen to us.)

My point in my original post was that I found the simple, 5 hour
course required to get a LTC in MA is marginally worthwhile,
especially for people who are not familiar with firearms or have
little or no experience with using them. I think that is a little
ironic for a state that otherwise has some very strict gun ownership
laws.


There is a whole list of courses available for my wife (and me,
possibly) to take if we desire. They
include advanced handgun, personal protection, concealed carry, pistol
cleaning and maintenance,
Utah/multi-state concealed carry, and a pot full of rifle courses. She
took the basic pistol course.
Good catch on my next question. We do keep a loaded gun in the house,
and have for many years. When
I saw the class given by a woman for women, I thought my wife would be
interested. She was. Now
she's wanting me to take her to the range. It won't be in the woods
shooting at stumps. Last night,
while going out for dinner, she mentioned getting a carry permit. So,
she may be taking the next
courses sooner than I thought!


Salmonbait

--
'Name-calling'...the liberals' last resort.


Oh, boy! Be sure to keep us posted...I don't often watch the local news
on TV.

Why do you have to be such an asshole, all of the time.

Tell the little woman who manages your life and pays your bills to find
something for you to do that makes you happy. Otherwise you'll sit there
pounding on your keyboard, chewing your fingers and becoming more
miserable.

In article , says...

"J Herring" wrote in message
...


BTW, has your wife taken the course which teaches all the items you
covered?

===============================================


My wife has no desire to even hold or look at a gun, let alone shoot
one. If she did, and wanted to get a permit to own one, I'd recommend
she take the course that my son and his wife took that was far more
extensive. In anticipation of your next question, all my guns are
kept in a safe in my house and the only other person other than me who
has the combination is my son in South Carolina (in case something
should happen to us.)

My point in my original post was that I found the simple, 5 hour
course required to get a LTC in MA is marginally worthwhile,
especially for people who are not familiar with firearms or have
little or no experience with using them. I think that is a little
ironic for a state that otherwise has some very strict gun ownership
laws.

Your wife does own a gun or did you get divorced?

On 3/30/2013 10:23 AM, BAR wrote:
In article , says...

"J Herring" wrote in message
...


BTW, has your wife taken the course which teaches all the items you
covered?

===============================================


My wife has no desire to even hold or look at a gun, let alone shoot
one. If she did, and wanted to get a permit to own one, I'd recommend
she take the course that my son and his wife took that was far more
extensive. In anticipation of your next question, all my guns are
kept in a safe in my house and the only other person other than me who
has the combination is my son in South Carolina (in case something
should happen to us.)

My point in my original post was that I found the simple, 5 hour
course required to get a LTC in MA is marginally worthwhile,
especially for people who are not familiar with firearms or have
little or no experience with using them. I think that is a little
ironic for a state that otherwise has some very strict gun ownership
laws.

Your wife does own a gun or did you get divorced?

Are you thinking community property?