On 10/28/11 12:55 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 08:18:50 -0700, wrote:

On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 08:29:59 -0400, X `
wrote:

On 10/28/11 4:01 AM, jps wrote:
On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 01:15:21 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 20:15:30 -0700, wrote:


You just want to bitch instead of finding out what they're protesting.

They want to get the money out of politics and its effect on how the
country is run.

That simple enough for you?

I have signed the Ratigan get the money out petition.
That appears to be a small part of the complaints in OWS.

It's central to the movement.


Here's the document I saw...it's a good beginning...

https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/

Notice the first three points are about dealing with money in
politics.


... and then they wander off into fantasy. They say they want to pay
down the debt and then propose a couple trillion in unfunded mandates.
My advice is they should put down the lighter, step away from the bong
and get out a calculator to figure out the expense of forgiving
mortgages, eliminating student debt and that health care system that
nobody wants to pay for.
When you show them what the tax rate would be to do this in a revenue
neutral way I bet they will start pulling back on their demands.

I do find it interesting that they want to abolish the fed. I don't
know one economist who thinks that is a good idea and eliminating the
electoral college will be DOA when it gets to the state legislatures.
I assume they want to restructure the senate too. Essentially 5 states
would run the whole government.

The dumbest idea is the CCC and the WPA. How many of those kids would
be willing to work outside in the hot sun for minimum wage? (or less)
That is just a bunch of kids who do not understand what those programs
were. Do you really think ANYONE would work for $16 a day and that is
what the CCC paid, adjusted for inflation. It was a dollar a day and
they only cleared $5 a month, the rest was sent home.
Even if you paid the Davis Bacon wage, most of the people I see at
these protests would turn their nose up at that kind of job.


It's just a political platform, just like, you know...

On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 12:55:38 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 08:18:50 -0700, jps wrote:

On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 08:29:59 -0400, X ` Man
wrote:

On 10/28/11 4:01 AM, jps wrote:
On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 01:15:21 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 20:15:30 -0700, wrote:


You just want to bitch instead of finding out what they're protesting.

They want to get the money out of politics and its effect on how the
country is run.

That simple enough for you?

I have signed the Ratigan get the money out petition.
That appears to be a small part of the complaints in OWS.

It's central to the movement.


Here's the document I saw...it's a good beginning...

https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/

Notice the first three points are about dealing with money in
politics.


... and then they wander off into fantasy. They say they want to pay
down the debt and then propose a couple trillion in unfunded mandates.
My advice is they should put down the lighter, step away from the bong
and get out a calculator to figure out the expense of forgiving
mortgages, eliminating student debt and that health care system that
nobody wants to pay for.
When you show them what the tax rate would be to do this in a revenue
neutral way I bet they will start pulling back on their demands.

I do find it interesting that they want to abolish the fed. I don't
know one economist who thinks that is a good idea and eliminating the
electoral college will be DOA when it gets to the state legislatures.
I assume they want to restructure the senate too. Essentially 5 states
would run the whole government.

The dumbest idea is the CCC and the WPA. How many of those kids would
be willing to work outside in the hot sun for minimum wage? (or less)
That is just a bunch of kids who do not understand what those programs
were. Do you really think ANYONE would work for $16 a day and that is
what the CCC paid, adjusted for inflation. It was a dollar a day and
they only cleared $5 a month, the rest was sent home.
Even if you paid the Davis Bacon wage, most of the people I see at
these protests would turn their nose up at that kind of job.

It's a draft. What do you think the initial drafts of the
constitution looked like? You think everyone who had an idea was as
smart as Jefferson?

You've just defined yourself as a low info voter. You haven't read
anything about the agenda of the 99 until it's handed to you on a
silver platter but you've seen lots of pictures. And, from those
pictures, you've judged that they'd turn their noses up at minimum
wage. Following in the footsteps of Bill Frist in the Terry Shiavo
case, eh?

Minimum wage in Washington is $8.67 and going to $9.04 as of Jan 1,
2012. That's scarcely enough to live on but it's a damned sight
better than nothing. I don't know how long it's been since you've had
to go without food or a place to sleep but I'm guessing you're sorely
out of touch.

On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 09:39:29 -0400, Drifter wrote:

On 10/28/2011 9:21 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 10/28/11 9:13 AM, John H wrote:
On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 08:54:43 -0400, wrote:

On 10/28/2011 7:01 AM, X ` Man wrote:

Yes, and earlier this week I read a long list of "demands," really no
different than a political party platform, being circulated. I didn't
save it, but it was interesting and far-reaching and would result in a
restructuring of our society so that human needs finally outweighed
"property rights."



That would certainly upset your applecart. I can just see you giving up
your propery to satisfy others human needs. You must think its a great
idea so long as *YOU* are exempt.

If you don't have a Ducati, you can't give up your Ducati.

If you don't have compassion, you don't have a soul.

Who told you that? Couldn't have been an athiest or an agnostic.

The Liberals have shown tremendous compassion to the poor over the years - by keeping them
poor. And they fight the one hope the poor may have, a decent education. Gotta keep those worthless
union teachers in the schools. Make sure there are no standards by which teachers and students can
be evaluated.

That's compassion!


City, State, % of People Below the Poverty Level
1. Detroit, MI 32.5%
2. Buffalo, NY 29..9%
3. Cincinnati, OH 27.8%
4. Cleveland, OH 27.0%
5. Miami, FL 26.9%
5. St. Louis, MO 26.8%
7. El Paso, TX 26.4%
8. Milwaukee, WI 26.2%
9. Philadelphia, PA 25.1%
10. Newark, NJ 24.2%
U.S. Census Bureau, 2006 American Community Survey, August 2007

What do the top ten cities (over 250,000) with the highest poverty
rate all have in common? Democrat mayors.


Detroit, MI (1st on the poverty rate list) hasn't elected a
Republican mayor since 1961;


Buffalo, NY (2nd) hasn't elected one since 1954;

Cincinnati, OH (3rd)...since 1984;

Cleveland, OH (4th)...since 1989;

Miami, FL (5th) has never had a Republican mayor;

St. Louis, MO (6th)....since 1949;

El Paso, TX (7th) has never had a Republican mayor;

Milwaukee, WI (8th)...since 1908;

Philadelphia, PA (9th)...since 1952;

Newark, NJ (10th)...since 1907.

On 10/28/11 2:37 PM, John H wrote:
..

The Liberals have shown tremendous compassion to the poor over the years - by keeping them
poor.

What a crackpot you are...the only thing you have to look forward to is
your increasing senility...and racism.

On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 15:15:18 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 08:54:43 -0400, Drifter wrote:

On 10/28/2011 7:01 AM, X ` Man wrote:

Yes, and earlier this week I read a long list of "demands," really no
different than a political party platform, being circulated. I didn't
save it, but it was interesting and far-reaching and would result in a
restructuring of our society so that human needs finally outweighed
"property rights."



That would certainly upset your applecart. I can just see you giving up
your propery to satisfy others human needs. You must think its a great
idea so long as *YOU* are exempt.

Greed, that is the problem, and there is plenty to go around for all.

The economy is in the gutter because of wall street greed.
The American worker is out of work due to corporate greed.
The healthcare system is an absolute mess because of greed.

Nope. Change 'greed' to 'Chris' and 'Barney', at least in the first two. The last is simple fallacy.
Take illegals out of the picture, and the scene changes tremendously.

Of course, you'd get no pats on the back for a Harryesque post if you didn't act the 'neo-lib'.

On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 20:38:20 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 11:19:24 -0700, jps wrote:

On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 12:55:38 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 08:18:50 -0700, jps wrote:


https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/

Notice the first three points are about dealing with money in
politics.


... and then they wander off into fantasy. They say they want to pay
down the debt and then propose a couple trillion in unfunded mandates.
My advice is they should put down the lighter, step away from the bong
and get out a calculator to figure out the expense of forgiving
mortgages, eliminating student debt and that health care system that
nobody wants to pay for.
When you show them what the tax rate would be to do this in a revenue
neutral way I bet they will start pulling back on their demands.

I do find it interesting that they want to abolish the fed. I don't
know one economist who thinks that is a good idea and eliminating the
electoral college will be DOA when it gets to the state legislatures.
I assume they want to restructure the senate too. Essentially 5 states
would run the whole government.

The dumbest idea is the CCC and the WPA. How many of those kids would
be willing to work outside in the hot sun for minimum wage? (or less)
That is just a bunch of kids who do not understand what those programs
were. Do you really think ANYONE would work for $16 a day and that is
what the CCC paid, adjusted for inflation. It was a dollar a day and
they only cleared $5 a month, the rest was sent home.
Even if you paid the Davis Bacon wage, most of the people I see at
these protests would turn their nose up at that kind of job.

It's a draft. What do you think the initial drafts of the
constitution looked like? You think everyone who had an idea was as
smart as Jefferson?

You've just defined yourself as a low info voter. You haven't read
anything about the agenda of the 99 until it's handed to you on a
silver platter but you've seen lots of pictures.

I have seen several of these lists of demands. Some don't even pass
the laugh test. That is what happens when you have thousands of kids
walking around with lap tops and tablets pumping out manifestos. It is
really hard to figure out who is talking and for whom they actually
speak.

Minimum wage in Washington is $8.67 and going to $9.04 as of Jan 1,
2012. That's scarcely enough to live on but it's a damned sight
better than nothing. I don't know how long it's been since you've had
to go without food or a place to sleep but I'm guessing you're sorely
out of touch.

Not since 1965 but I did figure out how to make a living. My point is
the whole idea that a CCC camp doing manual labor would attract anyone
in this century is ludicrous ... unless you are talking about illegal
aliens. We can't even get people in this country to pick fruits and
vegetables. That is not quarrying out stone and breaking them up with
a hammer like the CCC people were doing.

Further proves that you're out of touch with young people of today.
You seem to think they're jaded and spoiled but I find the opposite.

They're more concerned with the environment, fellow citizens and the
state of the country than my peers were in the 60s and 70s and we were
significantly more enlightened than those that came before us.

On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 11:03:37 -0700, jps wrote:

On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 00:21:41 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 21:06:12 -0700, jps wrote:

On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 20:38:20 -0400, wrote:



Not since 1965 but I did figure out how to make a living. My point is
the whole idea that a CCC camp doing manual labor would attract anyone
in this century is ludicrous ... unless you are talking about illegal
aliens. We can't even get people in this country to pick fruits and
vegetables. That is not quarrying out stone and breaking them up with
a hammer like the CCC people were doing.

Further proves that you're out of touch with young people of today.
You seem to think they're jaded and spoiled but I find the opposite.

They're more concerned with the environment, fellow citizens and the
state of the country than my peers were in the 60s and 70s and we were
significantly more enlightened than those that came before us.

I was an inspector for 8 years and my wife built houses, I do know who
shows up for manual labor jobs. That is what the WPA and the CCC was.
It is all I was talking about.

I don't think student loans are at the center of this protest. There's
a depth of despair in those that cannot find a job and cannot support
their families. These protestors are just the canary in the
mineshaft.

WPA would be an excellent thing but we don't need pictures, we need
roads and bridges fixed and schools repaired.

I've yet to see any signs saying, "Rebuild our Roads and Bridges" or "Fix our Schools".

Most of the signs indicate the holder wants something for nothing.