I know by their postings that many conservatives here don't have a clue
what true liberalism is about. Harry doesn't have a clue, neither. So,
to clear things up, from Wiki:

Liberalism (from the Latin liberalis, "of freedom")[1] is the belief in
the importance of liberty and equal rights.[2] Liberals espouse a wide
array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but
generally, liberals support ideas such as constitutionalism, liberal
democracy, free and fair elections, human rights, capitalism, and
freedom of religion.[3][4][5][6][7] These ideas are widely accepted,
even by political groups that do not openly profess a liberal
ideological orientation. Liberalism encompasses several intellectual
trends and traditions, but the dominant variants are classical
liberalism, which became popular in the eighteenth century, and social
liberalism, which became popular in the twentieth century.

Liberalism first became a powerful force in the Age of Enlightenment,
rejecting several foundational assumptions that dominated most earlier
theories of government, such as nobility, established religion, absolute
monarchy, and the Divine Right of Kings. The early liberal thinker John
Locke, who is often credited for the creation of liberalism as a
distinct philosophical tradition, employed the concept of natural rights
and the social contract to argue that the rule of law should replace
absolutism in government, that rulers were subject to the consent of the
governed, and that private individuals had a fundamental right to life,
liberty, and property.

The revolutionaries in the American Revolution and the French Revolution
used liberal philosophy to justify the armed overthrow of tyrannical
rule. The nineteenth century saw liberal governments established in
nations across Europe, Latin America, and North America. Liberal ideas
spread even further in the twentieth century, when liberal democracies
triumphed in two world wars and survived major ideological challenges
from fascism and communism. Today, liberalism in its many forms remains
as a political force to varying degrees of power and influence on all
major continents.

On 10/24/2011 12:39 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
I know by their postings that many conservatives here don't have a clue
what true liberalism is about. Harry doesn't have a clue, neither. So,
to clear things up, from Wiki:

Liberalism (from the Latin liberalis, "of freedom")[1] is the belief in
the importance of liberty and equal rights.[2] Liberals espouse a wide
array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but
generally, liberals support ideas such as constitutionalism, liberal
democracy, free and fair elections, human rights, capitalism, and
freedom of religion.[3][4][5][6][7] These ideas are widely accepted,
even by political groups that do not openly profess a liberal
ideological orientation. Liberalism encompasses several intellectual
trends and traditions, but the dominant variants are classical
liberalism, which became popular in the eighteenth century, and social
liberalism, which became popular in the twentieth century.

Liberalism first became a powerful force in the Age of Enlightenment,
rejecting several foundational assumptions that dominated most earlier
theories of government, such as nobility, established religion, absolute
monarchy, and the Divine Right of Kings. The early liberal thinker John
Locke, who is often credited for the creation of liberalism as a
distinct philosophical tradition, employed the concept of natural rights
and the social contract to argue that the rule of law should replace
absolutism in government, that rulers were subject to the consent of the
governed, and that private individuals had a fundamental right to life,
liberty, and property.

The revolutionaries in the American Revolution and the French Revolution
used liberal philosophy to justify the armed overthrow of tyrannical
rule. The nineteenth century saw liberal governments established in
nations across Europe, Latin America, and North America. Liberal ideas
spread even further in the twentieth century, when liberal democracies
triumphed in two world wars and survived major ideological challenges
from fascism and communism. Today, liberalism in its many forms remains
as a political force to varying degrees of power and influence on all
major continents.



Hmmm. Maybe that's why Harry changed his stripes to Progressive.

In article om,
says...

On 10/24/2011 12:39 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
I know by their postings that many conservatives here don't have a clue
what true liberalism is about. Harry doesn't have a clue, neither. So,
to clear things up, from Wiki:

Liberalism (from the Latin liberalis, "of freedom")[1] is the belief in
the importance of liberty and equal rights.[2] Liberals espouse a wide
array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but
generally, liberals support ideas such as constitutionalism, liberal
democracy, free and fair elections, human rights, capitalism, and
freedom of religion.[3][4][5][6][7] These ideas are widely accepted,
even by political groups that do not openly profess a liberal
ideological orientation. Liberalism encompasses several intellectual
trends and traditions, but the dominant variants are classical
liberalism, which became popular in the eighteenth century, and social
liberalism, which became popular in the twentieth century.

Liberalism first became a powerful force in the Age of Enlightenment,
rejecting several foundational assumptions that dominated most earlier
theories of government, such as nobility, established religion, absolute
monarchy, and the Divine Right of Kings. The early liberal thinker John
Locke, who is often credited for the creation of liberalism as a
distinct philosophical tradition, employed the concept of natural rights
and the social contract to argue that the rule of law should replace
absolutism in government, that rulers were subject to the consent of the
governed, and that private individuals had a fundamental right to life,
liberty, and property.

The revolutionaries in the American Revolution and the French Revolution
used liberal philosophy to justify the armed overthrow of tyrannical
rule. The nineteenth century saw liberal governments established in
nations across Europe, Latin America, and North America. Liberal ideas
spread even further in the twentieth century, when liberal democracies
triumphed in two world wars and survived major ideological challenges
from fascism and communism. Today, liberalism in its many forms remains
as a political force to varying degrees of power and influence on all
major continents.



Hmmm. Maybe that's why Harry changed his stripes to Progressive.

Harry is just Harry, he wants the government to run his life for him,
tell him when to go to the doctor, and when to wipe his ass. He's not a
liberal in the true sense. Not even close.

On 10/24/11 1:56 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 12:39:00 -0400, wrote:

I know by their postings that many conservatives here don't have a clue
what true liberalism is about. Harry doesn't have a clue, neither. So,
to clear things up, from Wiki:

Liberalism (from the Latin liberalis, "of freedom")[1] is the belief in
the importance of liberty and equal rights.[2] Liberals espouse a wide
array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but
generally, liberals support ideas such as constitutionalism, liberal
democracy, free and fair elections, human rights, capitalism, and
freedom of religion.[3][4][5][6][7] These ideas are widely accepted,
even by political groups that do not openly profess a liberal
ideological orientation. Liberalism encompasses several intellectual
trends and traditions, but the dominant variants are classical
liberalism, which became popular in the eighteenth century, and social
liberalism, which became popular in the twentieth century.
In the 20th century "liberalism" has become everything but freedom.
For that you need to be libertarian.

"Liberals" want to tell you what kind of car to drive, (preferably
none at all), what to set your thermostat to, whether you wear a
helmet or not, who can have a gun, who gets to spend your money, which
wars we need to get into and what speech is acceptable, particularly
religious speech. I understand conservatives may be worse on many
freedom related things (sex, drugs and Rock&roll) but they don't call
themselves "liberal".


What could be funnier than iLoogy digging up a quote from Wiki and
presenting it as the "be-all and end-all" on any *.ism.

Well, your attempt isn't really any better, and for the same reasons.
You are defining a caricature. If you asked 10 liberals to define modern
liberalism, you'd get at least a handful of wildly different answers
with some commonality in some of them.

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 12:39:00 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

I know by their postings that many conservatives here don't have a clue
what true liberalism is about. Harry doesn't have a clue, neither. So,
to clear things up, from Wiki:

Liberalism (from the Latin liberalis, "of freedom")[1] is the belief in
the importance of liberty and equal rights.[2] Liberals espouse a wide
array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but
generally, liberals support ideas such as constitutionalism, liberal
democracy, free and fair elections, human rights, capitalism, and
freedom of religion.[3][4][5][6][7] These ideas are widely accepted,
even by political groups that do not openly profess a liberal
ideological orientation. Liberalism encompasses several intellectual
trends and traditions, but the dominant variants are classical
liberalism, which became popular in the eighteenth century, and social
liberalism, which became popular in the twentieth century.
In the 20th century "liberalism" has become everything but freedom.
For that you need to be libertarian.

"Liberals" want to tell you what kind of car to drive, (preferably
none at all), what to set your thermostat to, whether you wear a
helmet or not, who can have a gun, who gets to spend your money, which
wars we need to get into and what speech is acceptable, particularly
religious speech. I understand conservatives may be worse on many
freedom related things (sex, drugs and Rock&roll) but they don't call
themselves "liberal".

I agree, not many today know what the true meaning of liberalism is. I
am a little left of center. I don't want more and bigger government, and
I don't want them dictating what I drive, up to a point. I don't think
we should be able to pollute the environment and put our heads in the
sand like it will do no harm, for one.

On 24/10/2011 10:39 AM, iBoaterer wrote:
I know by their postings that many conservatives here don't have a clue
what true liberalism is about. Harry doesn't have a clue, neither. So,
to clear things up, from Wiki:

Liberalism (from the Latin liberalis, "of freedom")[1] is the belief in
the importance of liberty and equal rights.[2] Liberals espouse a wide
array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but
generally, liberals support ideas such as constitutionalism, liberal
democracy, free and fair elections, human rights, capitalism, and
freedom of religion.[3][4][5][6][7] These ideas are widely accepted,
even by political groups that do not openly profess a liberal
ideological orientation. Liberalism encompasses several intellectual
trends and traditions, but the dominant variants are classical
liberalism, which became popular in the eighteenth century, and social
liberalism, which became popular in the twentieth century.

Liberalism first became a powerful force in the Age of Enlightenment,
rejecting several foundational assumptions that dominated most earlier
theories of government, such as nobility, established religion, absolute
monarchy, and the Divine Right of Kings. The early liberal thinker John
Locke, who is often credited for the creation of liberalism as a
distinct philosophical tradition, employed the concept of natural rights
and the social contract to argue that the rule of law should replace
absolutism in government, that rulers were subject to the consent of the
governed, and that private individuals had a fundamental right to life,
liberty, and property.

The revolutionaries in the American Revolution and the French Revolution
used liberal philosophy to justify the armed overthrow of tyrannical
rule. The nineteenth century saw liberal governments established in
nations across Europe, Latin America, and North America. Liberal ideas
spread even further in the twentieth century, when liberal democracies
triumphed in two world wars and survived major ideological challenges
from fascism and communism. Today, liberalism in its many forms remains
as a political force to varying degrees of power and influence on all
major continents.

By that definition then there are no liberals nor liberalism.

Today's people who call themselves liberals and liberal-socialists are
about discarding conservative values. No need to develop and invest in
ones self, save, invest, just whine and entitlement. Envy others for
their wealth not asking the obvious, how come they don't go out and work
for some of their own.

Equal rights also means I should be able to save and invest without my
liberal-socialist neighbor wanting to tax me for my success and reward
him for his failure. It includes economics and economic liberty from
debt-tax slavery.

Nope, liberal socialism is about discarding the conservative values that
made America great and rewarding losers that wallow in greed, envy and
whine.

Greedy *******s mortgaging our kids and gand kids with their selfishness
of "just more debt" today.

"In Debt We Trust!"
- 0bama and the new American liberal-socialist way.
--
Eat the rich, screw the companies and wonder why there are no jobs. But
we have big huge government we can't afford...
-- Obama and the lefty fleabagger attitude

On 10/24/11 2:56 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 24/10/2011 10:39 AM, iBoaterer wrote:
I know by their postings that many conservatives here don't have a clue
what true liberalism is about. Harry doesn't have a clue, neither. So,
to clear things up, from Wiki:

Liberalism (from the Latin liberalis, "of freedom")[1] is the belief in
the importance of liberty and equal rights.[2] Liberals espouse a wide
array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but
generally, liberals support ideas such as constitutionalism, liberal
democracy, free and fair elections, human rights, capitalism, and
freedom of religion.[3][4][5][6][7] These ideas are widely accepted,
even by political groups that do not openly profess a liberal
ideological orientation. Liberalism encompasses several intellectual
trends and traditions, but the dominant variants are classical
liberalism, which became popular in the eighteenth century, and social
liberalism, which became popular in the twentieth century.

Liberalism first became a powerful force in the Age of Enlightenment,
rejecting several foundational assumptions that dominated most earlier
theories of government, such as nobility, established religion, absolute
monarchy, and the Divine Right of Kings. The early liberal thinker John
Locke, who is often credited for the creation of liberalism as a
distinct philosophical tradition, employed the concept of natural rights
and the social contract to argue that the rule of law should replace
absolutism in government, that rulers were subject to the consent of the
governed, and that private individuals had a fundamental right to life,
liberty, and property.

The revolutionaries in the American Revolution and the French Revolution
used liberal philosophy to justify the armed overthrow of tyrannical
rule. The nineteenth century saw liberal governments established in
nations across Europe, Latin America, and North America. Liberal ideas
spread even further in the twentieth century, when liberal democracies
triumphed in two world wars and survived major ideological challenges
from fascism and communism. Today, liberalism in its many forms remains
as a political force to varying degrees of power and influence on all
major continents.

By that definition then there are no liberals nor liberalism.

Today's people who call themselves liberals and liberal-socialists are
about discarding conservative values.

There are no conservative values beyond greed and a stated belief in
Christianity and, once stated, mostly ignored. I know this because I
watched several of the recent GOP nominee debates, and I never heard any
of the candidates espouse anything beyond simple-minded bumpersticker
slogans.

On 24/10/2011 12:15 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In ,
says...

On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 12:39:00 -0400, wrote:

I know by their postings that many conservatives here don't have a clue
what true liberalism is about. Harry doesn't have a clue, neither. So,
to clear things up, from Wiki:

Liberalism (from the Latin liberalis, "of freedom")[1] is the belief in
the importance of liberty and equal rights.[2] Liberals espouse a wide
array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but
generally, liberals support ideas such as constitutionalism, liberal
democracy, free and fair elections, human rights, capitalism, and
freedom of religion.[3][4][5][6][7] These ideas are widely accepted,
even by political groups that do not openly profess a liberal
ideological orientation. Liberalism encompasses several intellectual
trends and traditions, but the dominant variants are classical
liberalism, which became popular in the eighteenth century, and social
liberalism, which became popular in the twentieth century.
In the 20th century "liberalism" has become everything but freedom.
For that you need to be libertarian.

"Liberals" want to tell you what kind of car to drive, (preferably
none at all), what to set your thermostat to, whether you wear a
helmet or not, who can have a gun, who gets to spend your money, which
wars we need to get into and what speech is acceptable, particularly
religious speech. I understand conservatives may be worse on many
freedom related things (sex, drugs and Rock&roll) but they don't call
themselves "liberal".

I agree, not many today know what the true meaning of liberalism is. I
am a little left of center. I don't want more and bigger government, and
I don't want them dictating what I drive, up to a point. I don't think
we should be able to pollute the environment and put our heads in the
sand like it will do no harm, for one.

In the liberty sense, I too would be a liberal. But liberal or
libertarian are two different things. Todays people that call them
selves "liberals" or "liberal-socialists" are not much about integrity,
freedom, personal liberty or any of that. For example personal liberty
also comes with personal responsibility. I don't see todays liberals
taking any responsibility at all. Just whine, envy and greed of others.

--
Eat the rich, screw the companies and wonder why there are no jobs. But
we have big huge government we can't afford...
-- Obama and the lefty fleabagger attitude

On 10/24/11 3:07 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 24/10/2011 12:15 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In ,
says...

On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 12:39:00 -0400, wrote:

I know by their postings that many conservatives here don't have a clue
what true liberalism is about. Harry doesn't have a clue, neither. So,
to clear things up, from Wiki:

Liberalism (from the Latin liberalis, "of freedom")[1] is the belief in
the importance of liberty and equal rights.[2] Liberals espouse a wide
array of views depending on their understanding of these principles,
but
generally, liberals support ideas such as constitutionalism, liberal
democracy, free and fair elections, human rights, capitalism, and
freedom of religion.[3][4][5][6][7] These ideas are widely accepted,
even by political groups that do not openly profess a liberal
ideological orientation. Liberalism encompasses several intellectual
trends and traditions, but the dominant variants are classical
liberalism, which became popular in the eighteenth century, and social
liberalism, which became popular in the twentieth century.
In the 20th century "liberalism" has become everything but freedom.
For that you need to be libertarian.

"Liberals" want to tell you what kind of car to drive, (preferably
none at all), what to set your thermostat to, whether you wear a
helmet or not, who can have a gun, who gets to spend your money, which
wars we need to get into and what speech is acceptable, particularly
religious speech. I understand conservatives may be worse on many
freedom related things (sex, drugs and Rock&roll) but they don't call
themselves "liberal".

I agree, not many today know what the true meaning of liberalism is. I
am a little left of center. I don't want more and bigger government, and
I don't want them dictating what I drive, up to a point. I don't think
we should be able to pollute the environment and put our heads in the
sand like it will do no harm, for one.

In the liberty sense, I too would be a liberal. But liberal or
libertarian are two different things. Todays people that call them
selves "liberals" or "liberal-socialists" are not much about integrity,
freedom, personal liberty or any of that. For example personal liberty
also comes with personal responsibility. I don't see todays liberals
taking any responsibility at all. Just whine, envy and greed of others.


No one, and I mean no one, whines here more than you do, asshole.

On 10/24/2011 3:00 PM, X ` Man wrote:
On 10/24/11 2:56 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 24/10/2011 10:39 AM, iBoaterer wrote:
I know by their postings that many conservatives here don't have a clue
what true liberalism is about. Harry doesn't have a clue, neither. So,
to clear things up, from Wiki:

Liberalism (from the Latin liberalis, "of freedom")[1] is the belief in
the importance of liberty and equal rights.[2] Liberals espouse a wide
array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but
generally, liberals support ideas such as constitutionalism, liberal
democracy, free and fair elections, human rights, capitalism, and
freedom of religion.[3][4][5][6][7] These ideas are widely accepted,
even by political groups that do not openly profess a liberal
ideological orientation. Liberalism encompasses several intellectual
trends and traditions, but the dominant variants are classical
liberalism, which became popular in the eighteenth century, and social
liberalism, which became popular in the twentieth century.

Liberalism first became a powerful force in the Age of Enlightenment,
rejecting several foundational assumptions that dominated most earlier
theories of government, such as nobility, established religion, absolute
monarchy, and the Divine Right of Kings. The early liberal thinker John
Locke, who is often credited for the creation of liberalism as a
distinct philosophical tradition, employed the concept of natural rights
and the social contract to argue that the rule of law should replace
absolutism in government, that rulers were subject to the consent of the
governed, and that private individuals had a fundamental right to life,
liberty, and property.

The revolutionaries in the American Revolution and the French Revolution
used liberal philosophy to justify the armed overthrow of tyrannical
rule. The nineteenth century saw liberal governments established in
nations across Europe, Latin America, and North America. Liberal ideas
spread even further in the twentieth century, when liberal democracies
triumphed in two world wars and survived major ideological challenges
from fascism and communism. Today, liberalism in its many forms remains
as a political force to varying degrees of power and influence on all
major continents.

By that definition then there are no liberals nor liberalism.

Today's people who call themselves liberals and liberal-socialists are
about discarding conservative values.

There are no conservative values beyond greed and a stated belief in
Christianity and, once stated, mostly ignored. I know this because I
watched several of the recent GOP nominee debates, and I never heard any
of the candidates espouse anything beyond simple-minded bumpersticker
slogans.

Like "hope and change" or "yes we can" Don't knock stupid slogans. They
worked for one clown.