HI Larry,

After my little hike-a-roo, I've been thinking about getting three hike-out
kits with belts/beltpack features to distribute to my homeboys at the
put-in. That way there's no issue who wins/loses at the Class V rodeo.

I've also thought about quitting Class V altogether. Not to sound like a
snob, but most Eastern "standard" Class V (Watauga, Upper Yough, etc.) isn't
really in the same league as some of the Western stuff-- the main difference
being not so much in the difficulty of the individual drops, but in the
consequences of a swim in truly continuous whitewater.

I'm 41, got two kids. I gots to stay alive!

I've also done a heckuva lot of research on big boy boats. The two I've
fingered are the Dagger Nomad and the Robson Charger. They're definitely
way better for me than a Big Gun. The ethical question is considering all
the other things I do, and my slowly advancing age and lack of commitment to
those 45-day-a-year years, should I be jumping on relatively hard runs at
all?

I'm also looking at the Pyranha s6f, and wondering if I should buy one, beat
myself senseless on the local play wave, and hang up those Class V spurs. I
earned my Macho Merit Badge a long time ago, and while I'm in great cardio
shape, I'm no natural athlete. I'm lucky if I can chew gum and walk at the
same time. And I can always paddle my Tornado on any run that I actually
belong on that's a little difficult.

But as far as that ducky thing, well... I dunno!

Best,

Chuck

in article , Larry Cable at
ospam wrote on 6/9/04 5:58 PM:

Good luck on the search of a new boat. You could join Bill and I over on the
dark side and start paddling a duckie:^).

Charles Pezeshki wrote in message ...
HI Larry,

I've also thought about quitting Class V altogether. Not to sound like a
snob, but most Eastern "standard" Class V (Watauga, Upper Yough, etc.) isn't
really in the same league as some of the Western stuff-- the main difference
being not so much in the difficulty of the individual drops, but in the
consequences of a swim in truly continuous whitewater.

Not to quibble . . . but neither the Watauga nor the Upper Yough are
class V rivers. The AW site rates both as IV-V, but if you check the
ratings of individual rapids you'll find that the Upper Yough has a
single low V and the Watauga two low V's. Like the Upper Gauley,
which also has a handful of very low V's in AW's opinion (indeed, they
defend their rating of Insignificant as class V by saying "Class V has
to start somewhere . . ."), folks who frequently paddle Eastern Class
V would be unlikely to consider any of these "Class V Classics" class
V rivers.

Like you, now that I have kids I have cut back the difficulty of what
I run considerably, but I have no qualms about running any of the
three rivers listed above at normal flows. Most Eastern Class V's I
do have qualms about running these days.

As an aside, in the days I did paddle a lot of Class V, I found the
Eastern, Rocky Mountain and California ratings pretty consistent (too
little experience in the Pacific Northwest to include). What differed
was what paddlers in the various regions without much experience in
other regions found challenging. Less traveled Eastern boaters often
find high water honking big water bob down the middle challenging,
less traveled Western boaters often find tweeze through the boulder
garden then land on the rocks challenging.

-- Chris

Hi Chris,

Good to hear from you!

Are you still running the Green Narrows?

There's a lot that has happened in the boating scene in the East since I
left, and all your points are well-taken.

In reality, I miss Eastern paddling a lot. Runs like the Watauga, Upper
Yough, and such are really great in that the rapids have some gradient, but
they also have pools at the bottom. It's not this 'cataract in the middle
of a Class III rapid' that seems to characterize too much Idaho Class V.

I also miss the warm water.

It's too bad it's so hard to plan a paddling vacation to the East. I'd be
back there next year.

Best,

Chuck

http://www.wildcountry.info

in article , Chris Bell at
wrote on 6/10/04 6:18 AM:

Like you, now that I have kids I have cut back the difficulty of what
I run considerably, but I have no qualms about running any of the
three rivers listed above at normal flows. Most Eastern Class V's I
do have qualms about running these days.

Charles Pezeshki wrote in message ...
Hi Chris,

Good to hear from you!

Are you still running the Green Narrows?

Yes, but I walk the "Big Two" and I've never run "Go Left" (Go Left
has a sneak called "Squeeze"). Back in the day I didn't feel like I'd
really run the river unless I ran everything. Now it feels like a
real run even though I'm walking Gorilla and Sunshine! The Narrows is
certainly a step up from the Watauga and the Upper Yough, but it isn't
cutting edge -- unless you're running all the hardest lines and
catching all the eddies in inconvenient, very scary places.

-- Chris

(Chris Bell)

Typed in Message-ID:

Not to quibble . . . but neither the Watauga nor the Upper Yough are
class V rivers. The AW site rates both as IV-V, but if you check the
ratings of individual rapids you'll find that the Upper Yough has a
single low V and the Watauga two low V's. Like the Upper Gauley,
which also has a handful of very low V's in AW's opinion (indeed,

they
defend their rating of Insignificant as class V by saying "Class V has
to start somewhere . . ."), folks who frequently paddle Eastern Class
V would be unlikely to consider any of these "Class V Classics" class
V rivers.

Have to agree with Chris on this one. While these were cutting edge streams 10
years ago, there are not the extreme end of Eastern WW now. I would have to
give that to runs like Deckers, Otter, Manns and some of the really tiny and
steep stuff coming off the Walden's Ridge in Tennessee.

What differed
was what paddlers in the various regions without much experience in
other regions found challenging. Less traveled Eastern boaters often
find high water honking big water bob down the middle challenging,
less traveled Western boaters often find tweeze through the boulder

garden then land on the rocks challenging.

I've also found that true. I once ran the New at reasonably high flow, about
4.5' at Fayette Station with a group of reasonably skilled Tennessee Creek
Boaters. Several
very good boaters had repeated swims because they weren't use to dealing with
the big water. I've had Western boaters tell me that the Little in the Smokies
wasn't runnable at 1000 cfs (which is a pretty decent level BTW).


SYOTR
Larry C.