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#1
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OT and contentious: Torture photos from Iraq
riverman wrote: This latest thing is atrocious, and I am sure than there isn't a single American living in the states who fully realizes how distainful, discrediting and compromising this makes us look. Agreed. I trepidaciously look forward to how Bush will pass blame for this on to someone else. The blame rests with the people who did it. That seems pretty evident. There's no reason to pass the blame, what's needed is to prosecute the guilty parties. |
#2
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OT and contentious: Torture photos from Iraq
Brian Nystrom wrote in message ...
riverman wrote: This latest thing is atrocious, and I am sure than there isn't a single American living in the states who fully realizes how distainful, discrediting and compromising this makes us look. Agreed. I trepidaciously look forward to how Bush will pass blame for this on to someone else. The blame rests with the people who did it. That seems pretty evident. There's no reason to pass the blame, what's needed is to prosecute the guilty parties. It is not isolated Brian. We ( As a group ) don't see these people as fully human so we can do nasty things to them. After all they blew up the trade towers ... right??. |
#3
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OT and contentious: Torture photos from Iraq
Fiona wrote: Brian Nystrom wrote in message ... riverman wrote: This latest thing is atrocious, and I am sure than there isn't a single American living in the states who fully realizes how distainful, discrediting and compromising this makes us look. Agreed. I trepidaciously look forward to how Bush will pass blame for this on to someone else. The blame rests with the people who did it. That seems pretty evident. There's no reason to pass the blame, what's needed is to prosecute the guilty parties. It is not isolated Brian. That depends on how you define "isolated". I'm assuming that this has happened more than once, but that hardly makes it systemic. We ( As a group ) don't see these people as fully human so we can do nasty things to them. Don't include me in your "we". I don't see it that way at all. There is no justification for what apparently happened. After all they blew up the trade towers ... right??. No. Whatever gave you that idea? You're going way out on a limb here. What point are you trying to make? Are you just trying to bait me or something? If so, you're wasting your time, as I don't think that way. |
#4
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OT and contentious: Torture photos from Iraq
On Thu, 06 May 2004 23:44:30 GMT, Brian Nystrom
wrote: That depends on how you define "isolated". I'm assuming that this has happened more than once, but that hardly makes it systemic. ... Wait a minute. We are expected to believe that these reservists came up with things that Muslims specifically would see as humiliating? All by themselves with no help? Do you think they took Arab Humiliation courses at their local community college? Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA We are the CroMagnon of the future |
#5
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OT and contentious: Torture photos from Iraq
Galen Hekhuis wrote in message . ..
On Thu, 06 May 2004 23:44:30 GMT, Brian Nystrom wrote: That depends on how you define "isolated". I'm assuming that this has happened more than once, but that hardly makes it systemic. ... Wait a minute. We are expected to believe that these reservists came up with things that Muslims specifically would see as humiliating? All by themselves with no help? Do you think they took Arab Humiliation courses at their local community college? Galen I think anyone would be humiliated at this stuff. I did not see anything that would not fill a Christian or a pagan with absolute disgust . Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA We are the CroMagnon of the future brian : i was being sarcastic. the world knows that iraq had nothing to do with the trade tower bombings . WMD's are sort of in doubt right now too. in an earier post I mentioned what happened to a friend . i am pretty angry about that. soldiers are not policing themselves in a mannor appropriate for the circomstance. US soldiers (and brits) are finding themselves in the same circomstance that i would imagine the germans did with the jews. dehuminize the foe and they can be mistreated or even exterminated. the germans are not an ignorant barbaric race, as a nation quite the oposite : but they did what they did and now we are getting a lesson on how this can happen. i saw a night vision video of three men being shot by machine gun a couple of nights ago. they were unarmed. the humiliation the men in that iraqi prison were put through was not just stuff that would play on the Islamic mind , it would be a crime against anyone. what you are looking at is an attitude. young men have absolute power over a people that can't speak the language to complain and if they can they are afraid to. this has hapened before; and will again. the truly sad thing is there is now way out. we had a program played here in Canada , A W5 CBC production . It was about the bush , bin laden ties and soudi arabia. It was most interesting. going to war seams easy. how george gets you out of it is going to be a task. though i dissagree with your view you are quite eliquent. i an sure you don't carry a natural hatred for arabs at large, right now though the coalition of the willing seams to. the news not allowed out of iraq is frightening . your own media is not allowed to show coffins, body bags or the bodies of dead US soldiers. i think you will change your mind, eventually ( 10 years or so ) but only if i am wrong.... fiona. |
#6
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OT and contentious: Torture photos from Iraq
Galen Hekhuis wrote:
On Thu, 06 May 2004 23:44:30 GMT, Brian Nystrom wrote: That depends on how you define "isolated". I'm assuming that this has happened more than once, but that hardly makes it systemic. ... Wait a minute. We are expected to believe that these reservists came up with things that Muslims specifically would see as humiliating? All by themselves with no help? Do you think they took Arab Humiliation courses at their local community college? Well, I think it's safe to say that anyone would have found it humiliating. Regardless, it's entirely possible that they were coached, directed and/or encouraged. If so, the people who did so should be punished at least as severely as those who perpetrated the acts. However, that doesn't mean that all guards, supervisors and the like are guilty or that these things occurred at all facilities. Time will tell. |
#7
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OT and contentious: Torture photos from Iraq
For a country that prides itself in its free press, I was amazed to see
coverage of the photos of US soldiers torturing and humiating Iraqi detainee on all the tv news stations last night, all except CNN. Followup: So where are we now? CBS was asked to suppress the story - which it did - essentially confirming that part of the US media is under the direction of the US government. Now that is a free press. ---- I don't know why everyone is so surprised by the discovery of abuse of Iraqi prisioners. It should come as no surprise that a nation capable of compromising the rights of its own citizens in support of a war on terror through the provisions of the Patriot Act would hesitate at all in violating the human rights of people it has declared as the enemy. ---- The far right has a tradition of believing the End justifies the Means. We need only become students of history. It was 40 years ago, that we first heard "Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice". (Barry Goldwater - 1964 presidential campaign). One aspect of becoming older is that you get to see much of the past repeated. It seems each generation needs to learn their own truthes through their own experiences. So we make the same mistakes all over again. Those of the Vietnam era have already experienced the abuse of domestic surveillence by the CIA and FBI. And nearly 34 years ago to the day, we witnessed our own military killing our own citizenry in the streets. Back then the images of abuse were prisoners in "Tiger Cages" and people pushed out of helicopters. The chant from Patriotic chorus was just as loud. "Love it or Leave it". Nixon won in a record landslide only to become the first president to resign in disgrace. And then we wonder why the American people are split so sharply over (your pick) Bush, the war in Iraq, rights violations both foreign and domestic. Many of us have seen it before. And after the dust settled, there were the investigations where we learned that we were lied to and spied upon "for our own good". The distrust that the government earned lingers long. Blakely LaCroix Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA. RBP Clique member # 86. The best adventure is yet to come. |
#8
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OT and contentious: Torture photos from Iraq
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