On 18-Apr-2004, John Smith wrote:

So, it seems that I would be looking at either an Algonquin 15 or 16, or
perhaps a Mattawa, if I were to get a Swift. The Mattawa looks to be a
better canoe, I will have to try one.

I haven't paddled a Mattawa, but I did paddle an Algonquin 17 for a weekend
once. I didn't realize that the A-17 was not considered a "serious" canoe -
its marketed as a high-end family or good recreational canoe. I found it
handled quite well and had decent speed. I would have rated as good or
better than many other companies' high-end tripper canoes!

I can't say much about the 15 or 16 foot versions other than to suggest that
if they're comparable to the 17, they're good enough for most paddlers.

If I had to buy a lake tripper tomorrow, I'd get the Swift Kippawa. If
there's one available, give it a look.

They will be in Guelph, Ontario next weekend, which is about 1 hours
drive from where I am.

I bought my last boat - a Boreal Designs Ellesmere sea kayak from Swift
at Guelph two years ago. If you're lucky, you;ll find a deal like I did.

Mike

Michael Daly wrote:


I haven't paddled a Mattawa, but I did paddle an Algonquin 17 for a weekend
once. I didn't realize that the A-17 was not considered a "serious" canoe -
its marketed as a high-end family or good recreational canoe. I found it
handled quite well and had decent speed. I would have rated as good or
better than many other companies' high-end tripper canoes!

I can't say much about the 15 or 16 foot versions other than to suggest that
if they're comparable to the 17, they're good enough for most paddlers.

If I had to buy a lake tripper tomorrow, I'd get the Swift Kippawa. If
there's one available, give it a look.


I bought my last boat - a Boreal Designs Ellesmere sea kayak from Swift
at Guelph two years ago. If you're lucky, you;ll find a deal like I did.

Mike

Thanks again. I've been trying to keep it to 15' or 16'. While the
wife enjoys canoeing, I do see myself going solo from time to time (or
maybe more). To be honest, I haven't done extensive solo in any canoe
recently, but I figure that a 17' (or more) may be a handful at time, at
least more so than a shorter canoe.

I could be way off on that last point.

I'll be doing lake paddling most of the time, doing rivers/creeks to get
to the next lake, but I don't see any whitewater in the foreseeable future.

We do camping, but have found we can fit all our gear into a 15'
comfortably.

I will be fishing extensively from this canoe.

My main canoeing experience from the past few years is using three
different canoes.

One is at the wife's family cottage. This is a green plastic 17'
Coleman with round metal tubes bracing the inside. I find it heavy and
the most difficult to paddle. I took it out two weekends ago for my
first paddle (only choice). I find it generally barge-like.

The other two are at my cousins cottage, which we frequently visit in
the summer. They have a 16 or 17', not sure of the material. It's red
and plasticy, sort of like the Coleman, but stiffer, with no metal
bracing. It's lighter than the Coleman, and seems fairly durable. It
may be Royalex/lite, I've never seen one up close, so I'm not sure
exactly what they look like. Anyways, this is a stable canoe, it seems
OK, but it's still quite heavy.

The last is a Swift, approximately 10 years old. it's a 15', not sure
which model. I'm not exactly sure of the material, but the inside is a
screen-like mesh pattern. It seems very light, although it doesn't seem
like it would appreciate being banged into a rock. This canoe has no
keel, so when I first used it, I thought it felt 'tippy'. After awhile,
I got used to it and find the canoe much more stable than the red one,
especially when you lean over the side, say, to unhook a fish! I guess
that's the Primary/Secondary stability.

Anyways, sorry to ramble, just looking for some input on what may be
suitable for me...

Thanks

Brian

On 19-Apr-2004, John Smith wrote:

BTW, I should admit that I haven't canoed in years, since sea kayaking has
taken over. I don't miss canoeing much - or at least, I don't miss the
idiot in the front seat :-). The only thing I miss while sea kayaking
is the ease of portaging my way away from the crowds (and power boats).

To be honest, I haven't done extensive solo in any canoe
recently, but I figure that a 17' (or more) may be a handful at time, at
least more so than a shorter canoe.

It can depend on the canoe. I did a lot of solo paddling in the old days
and found that a good 17' canoe is easier to handle than a poor 15-16'.
If you are talking about a solo canoe (i.e. single seat like the Osprey)
then 15-16' is standard. But for a double, even 17 is not too much
to handle solo if well designed.

It seems very light, although it doesn't seem
like it would appreciate being banged into a rock.

If Kevlar, it can be quite tough even though light.

This canoe has no keel,

Keels affect tracking, not stability. Many canoes get their tracking
stiffness from the bow and stern shape, so the keel is not critical.
The advantage of this design is that they track well but still turn
easily.

so when I first used it, I thought it felt 'tippy'. After awhile,
I got used to it and find the canoe much more stable than the red one,
especially when you lean over the side, say, to unhook a fish! I guess
that's the Primary/Secondary stability.

Correct. Good secondary is more important than high primary.

Mike

Michael Daly wrote:



It can depend on the canoe. I did a lot of solo paddling in the old days
and found that a good 17' canoe is easier to handle than a poor 15-16'.
If you are talking about a solo canoe (i.e. single seat like the Osprey)
then 15-16' is standard. But for a double, even 17 is not too much
to handle solo if well designed.


OK, so my selections have now expanded to most of the line. Algonquin,
Kipawa, Mattawa or maybe a Dumoine.

I guess at this point I'm just going to have to head out on Saturday and
paddle some of these things. Man I'm rusty...

With the asymmetrical canoes, when you paddle them solo, do you still
spin the canoe around and sit in the bow seat? Or am I missing the point
of a kneeling thwart?

Anyways, thanks for all your help. I guess it will probably boil down
to $$, from what I've read, it doesn't seem I'll go too far wrong with
any of these.

Are there good deals at the sales? Here's to hoping I can get into
something in Kevlar!

Thanks again

Brian