+500 miles along the SE Atlantic coast with boating weather Damn near
365 days a year. When do you Buckeyes start putting your boats into
"hibernation" for the winter? Later this month or, is it already under
way? (BTW, 80F w/a 10kt N wind & scattered showers here tomorrow)

If it's a large area, do you mean to tell me you know EVERY charter
boat in
that area???

Find a six pack, offshore, charter that uses a Bayliner and prove me
wrong.

Oh I see... in a +500 mile strech of coatline you *know* that no one
uses a Bayliner for any Commerical applications. You pull a statement
completely out of you ass and it's up to me to prove it wrong? Yeah,
Scott, I'll go jump on that.

Just for argument, how many of those captains use Chris-Crafts, Jerseys,
Larsons, Wellcrafts, Four Winns, etc... Specifically are there any
other Brands that are absent? If so does that mean those boats are
inferior too? If so how come no one in this miserable group takes the
time to point a finger in those boats' direction? Why? My guess, it's
because a few people in this group are wannabe boating elitest, with
little real knowledge on any given boats capabilities (except hopefiully
their own), so they pick an easy target.

Possible past Bayliner quality control problems, cheaper price, cheaper
fit and finish, and lower power offerings of the base models, along
previous unsubstainted ramblings for other ignorant elitest, conspire to
make Bayline an easy target for people who have this childish need to
pooh pooh a boat that is not their brand but are too intellectually lazy
to put together a reasonable argument. Rather than qualify their
remarks, they simply dribble "Bayliner baaaad", because that brand has
least chance of being disputed, perpetuating ignorance, and setting up
the brand name for future attack.



And even if you do, does this directly means that all Bayliners are
crap???

No, what it "means" is that Bayliners are totally absent amoung
experienced Captains who rely upon their boat for a living.

Don't you wonder why not a single one of these captains have selected
such a "popular" brand of boat to rely upon?


Okay, I'll bite. "I wonder why Bayliners are not popular among this
small contingent of boaters". What's you response "'cuz dey suk!"?
Flawless logic indeed. Why don't you just tell me specifically what you
are trying to convey?

Also can we please try to argue with facts instead of implying something
from a small groupof people? Seriously, I can take a group of perch
fishermen or walleys fishermen on Lake Erie have a sample of more than
170 Boats, just like the referenced website, and have few if any Boston
Whalers present in that sample. What does than mean? Nothing.



Also doe this lacking of Bayliners (specifically Trophys) mean the boat
is
not suitable for the hardcore offshore and inshore fishing, but a 14
foot
aluminium bass boat is?

There were a couple of pictures of "14' aluminium bass boats" which is
more than we can say about Bayliner, isn't it?

Astonishing, given Bayliner's "popularity", don't you think?


So once again you imply a 14 aluminium boat is better equipped for than
a closed bow bayliner Trophy????? Really???? Isn't your ass getting a
little sore from pulling out all those comments?




Some of us, however, are a bit more demanding.

Whoa there.... Scott. Ya started off kinda jerky, but then were
sounding
like a pretty reasonable guy, until that last left-handed comment.

I endeavor to be a jerk all of the time but as you can see, nobody's
perfect.

Keep it up, you getting closer I think you're getting to your goal.

Contrary to what many elitest believe, the boat don't make the skipper.
I've been out in a 16' Bayliner in 6-8's in Lake Erie (And let me tell
you, those are NOT ocean swells).

Wave interval is a much more important factor, right?


Yes it is. And Lake Erie's shallow dept increase the frequency.

Tell you what, tough guy, bring a 16' Bayliner to Ponce or Sebastian
when a strong onshore wind is opposing an outgoing tide and go out
past the formidable "standing men" that form in either inlet. I'll
watch from my Whaler, ready for the inevitable rescue attempt. If you
make it, I'll be so impressed I promise to quit ragging on Bayliners
right here and now.

A final word of advice:

"Let me tell you, those are NOT ocean swells"
--
SJM

Uh.. Yeah, Scott... Once agin I'll jump right on it and am leaving
right now because I really need yto show you.

I have no problems taking your word on your local boating conditions. I
won't presume I can take a 16 foot Bayliner or ANY BOAT into waters that
I have absolutely no experience with. If your comment is that my
boating environment is not demanding, and that is the reason, I am
happy with Bayliners, then it is you who need to take my word that I
have been in Bayliners in demanding conditions, or come up her and see
for yourself. Better yet go to www.boatnerd.com and look for
information on Lake Erie.

I try to be a reasonable person in my original assertion that not all
Bayliners are crappy. I've never asserted that any Bayliner can be
taken anywhere, competing with any other boat in any category.

I don't make absolute statements about a five hundred mile coastline one
cannot possibly be 100% familiar with, then tell people who aren't even
local to the area to "prove me wrong". I don't take a small sample of
people and say there are no Bayliners present so "what does that tell
you", to infer Bayliners are inferior.

What I do assert is that in MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE the Bayliners I have
owned and been and other Brands I have owned and been on, is that
Bayliners seem just as capable in rough boating conditions as a
comparable Wellcraft, Larson, Chris-Craft, Four Winns, etc... This
means that not all Bayliners can be dismissed as crap, and people who
feel the need to single out and dismiss all Bayliners, are behaving in
an ignorant manner.

If you feel the need to keep ragging on all Bayliners, becuase I am
unwilling to drive thousands of miles to prove it to you, well the have
fun with pounding your chest chanting "Bayliner baaaad. My boat
gooood." with Harry, and the lemmings in the Our Gang He Man Bayliner
Hater's Club.


Bob Dimond

BOB wrote:

+500 miles along the SE Atlantic coast with boating weather Damn near
365 days a year. When do you Buckeyes start putting your boats into
"hibernation" for the winter? Later this month or, is it already under
way? (BTW, 80F w/a 10kt N wind & scattered showers here tomorrow)

If it's a large area, do you mean to tell me you know EVERY charter
boat in
that area???

Find a six pack, offshore, charter that uses a Bayliner and prove me
wrong.

Oh I see... in a +500 mile strech of coatline you *know* that no one
uses a Bayliner for any Commerical applications. You pull a statement
completely out of you ass and it's up to me to prove it wrong? Yeah,
Scott, I'll go jump on that.

There was one six pack captain operating out of the area between St.
Mary's, Georgia, and St. Augustine, Florida, who ran a Bayliner Trophy
center console for inshore ocean fishing and on the ICW. He was the only
one I ever encountered in more than five years of fishing those waters
several times a week.

The most popular ICW boats for charter captains were Carolina Skiffs.

Outside the inlets, Whalers, Gradys, Contenders, Makos (lotsa older
Makos) and a dozen other brands were common among the hired captains. No
Tropnies.


Just for argument, how many of those captains use Chris-Crafts, Jerseys,
Larsons, Wellcrafts, Four Winns,

Chris Craft, Larson and Four Winns aren't in the salt water fishing boat
builder category. Bayliner is. Lotsa Wellcrafts were about, especially
the older 20 footers.



Possible past Bayliner quality control problems, cheaper price, cheaper
fit and finish, and lower power offerings of the base models, along
previous unsubstainted ramblings for other ignorant elitest, conspire to
make Bayline an easy target for people who have this childish need to
pooh pooh a boat that is not their brand but are too intellectually lazy
to put together a reasonable argument

There you go. You have your own list of Bayliner shortcomings.





--
* * *
email sent to will *never* get to me.

BOB wrote in message ]...

Oh I see... in a +500 mile strech of coatline you *know* that no one
uses a Bayliner for any Commerical applications.

I said "offshore, six pack, fishing or diving charter" not "commercial
applications" which could mean putt-putting around docks in the ICW.
An "application" Bayliners are eminently suited for.

You pull a statement completely out of you ass and it's up to me to prove it wrong?

There are no Bayliners in use for the type of operation I mentioned,
in that area, trust me

Just for argument, how many of those captains use Chris-Crafts, Jerseys,
Larsons, Wellcrafts, Four Winns, etc...

I've seen a few Wellcraft CC's in use down in the Keys for diving
op's.

IIRC none of the other brands you mention are in that market.

Bayliner is, or so they think.

Possible past Bayliner quality control problems, cheaper price, cheaper
fit and finish, and lower power offerings of the base models....

Well now, look who's "ragging" on Bayliner.

Okay, I'll bite. "I wonder why Bayliners are not popular among this
small contingent of boaters".

You may wish to refer to your own words, quoted above. I'll just add
one more he You'll also take a bath when you finally wise up and
try and sell/trade up the damn thing.

Look in any of the local papers and you'll see -ten- Bayliners for
sale ad's for -one- of any other brand of boat. The classified ad
section is like a Bayliner "rendezvous".


I endeavor to be a jerk all of the time but as you can see, nobody's
perfect.

Keep it up, you getting closer I think you're getting to your goal.

I try not to disappoint.

If your comment is that my boating environment is not demanding, and that is the reason, I am happy with Bayliners, then it is you who need to take my
word that I have been in Bayliners in demanding conditions, or come up her
and see for yourself.

I saw your "great bayliner story", and Chuck Gould (as usual) made the
necessary post pointing out your all too typical, overly enthusiastic
newbie power boater, foolhardiness. Take a cab, bus, call a
friend/relative, ect, to get home next time.

But since you bring it up, you've been powerboating since 1999, right?

You had that 16'er for one whole "season", right?

You put an awe inspiring "250 miles" on it, right? (I've done half
that in one weekend)

That would mean you've had your current boat for less than 3 years,
right?

Why don't you come back when you get a little experience and let the
poundings you like to submit yourself to begin to take their toll on
your boat. Just because you were very fortunate one time doesn't prove
much either, Mr Logic, except for some exceedingly poor judgement on
your part.

Better yet go to www.boatnerd.com and look for information on Lake Erie.

I am well aware of the Great Lakes.

This means that not all Bayliners can be dismissed as crap, and people who
feel the need to single out and dismiss all Bayliners, are behaving in
an ignorant manner.

I never said they were "crap".

I said where I see them and, where I do not see them.

We know what people do where I see them and, what they do where I do
not see them.

People can draw their own conclusions.
--
SJM

Scott McFadden wrote:
BOB wrote in message ]...

Oh I see... in a +500 mile strech of coatline you *know* that no one
uses a Bayliner for any Commerical applications.

I said "offshore, six pack, fishing or diving charter" not "commercial
applications" which could mean putt-putting around docks in the ICW.
An "application" Bayliners are eminently suited for.

One of Bob's problems is that he is not a careful reader, as the rest of
your post here makes perfectly clear.




You pull a statement completely out of you ass and it's up to me to prove it wrong?

There are no Bayliners in use for the type of operation I mentioned,
in that area, trust me

Just for argument, how many of those captains use Chris-Crafts, Jerseys,
Larsons, Wellcrafts, Four Winns, etc...

I've seen a few Wellcraft CC's in use down in the Keys for diving
op's.

IIRC none of the other brands you mention are in that market.

Bayliner is, or so they think.

Possible past Bayliner quality control problems, cheaper price, cheaper
fit and finish, and lower power offerings of the base models....

Well now, look who's "ragging" on Bayliner.

Okay, I'll bite. "I wonder why Bayliners are not popular among this
small contingent of boaters".

You may wish to refer to your own words, quoted above. I'll just add
one more he You'll also take a bath when you finally wise up and
try and sell/trade up the damn thing.

Look in any of the local papers and you'll see -ten- Bayliners for
sale ad's for -one- of any other brand of boat. The classified ad
section is like a Bayliner "rendezvous".


I endeavor to be a jerk all of the time but as you can see, nobody's
perfect.

Keep it up, you getting closer I think you're getting to your goal.

I try not to disappoint.

If your comment is that my boating environment is not demanding, and that is the reason, I am happy with Bayliners, then it is you who need to take my
word that I have been in Bayliners in demanding conditions, or come up her
and see for yourself.

I saw your "great bayliner story", and Chuck Gould (as usual) made the
necessary post pointing out your all too typical, overly enthusiastic
newbie power boater, foolhardiness. Take a cab, bus, call a
friend/relative, ect, to get home next time.

But since you bring it up, you've been powerboating since 1999, right?

You had that 16'er for one whole "season", right?

You put an awe inspiring "250 miles" on it, right? (I've done half
that in one weekend)

That would mean you've had your current boat for less than 3 years,
right?

Why don't you come back when you get a little experience and let the
poundings you like to submit yourself to begin to take their toll on
your boat. Just because you were very fortunate one time doesn't prove
much either, Mr Logic, except for some exceedingly poor judgement on
your part.

Better yet go to www.boatnerd.com and look for information on Lake Erie.

I am well aware of the Great Lakes.

This means that not all Bayliners can be dismissed as crap, and people who
feel the need to single out and dismiss all Bayliners, are behaving in
an ignorant manner.

I never said they were "crap".

I said where I see them and, where I do not see them.

We know what people do where I see them and, what they do where I do
not see them.

People can draw their own conclusions.
--
SJM


--
* * *
email sent to will *never* get to me.

In article , Harry Krause
wrote:

Scott McFadden wrote:
BOB wrote in message
]...

Oh I see... in a +500 mile strech of coatline you *know* that no one
uses a Bayliner for any Commerical applications.

I said "offshore, six pack, fishing or diving charter" not "commercial
applications" which could mean putt-putting around docks in the ICW.
An "application" Bayliners are eminently suited for.

One of Bob's problems is that he is not a careful reader, as the rest of
your post here makes perfectly clear.



I am a careful reader, just not a gullible one. I'm to believe he knows
every fishing vessel on a 500 mile coastliine, then infer the viability of
Bayliners based on a loose inference.

You too should get along very good. You both have similar definitions for
facts.

I should also point out that I am a terrible typist, speller, and use
incorrect grammar, but y'all ready knew that! :^)



I am a careful reader, just not a gullible one. I'm to believe he knows
every fishing vessel on a 500 mile coastliine, then infer the viability of
Bayliners based on a loose inference.

You too should get along very good. You both have similar definitions for
facts.

Bob D. wrote:

In article , Harry Krause
wrote:

Scott McFadden wrote:
BOB wrote in message
]...

Oh I see... in a +500 mile strech of coatline you *know* that no one
uses a Bayliner for any Commerical applications.

I said "offshore, six pack, fishing or diving charter" not "commercial
applications" which could mean putt-putting around docks in the ICW.
An "application" Bayliners are eminently suited for.

One of Bob's problems is that he is not a careful reader, as the rest of
your post here makes perfectly clear.



I am a careful reader, just not a gullible one. I'm to believe he knows
every fishing vessel on a 500 mile coastliine, then infer the viability of
Bayliners based on a loose inference.

You too should get along very good. You both have similar definitions for
facts.


Well, I fished off the Georgia-Florida Coast for six years, several
times a week and at least one day on the weekend (unless the weather was
horrible), and in the ICW and so forth, and in all those years, I saw
one Bayliner Trophy engaged in offshore fishing. In fact, I knew the
owner of that boat. I generally fished from the St. Mary's River in
Georgia down past St. Augustine in Florida, an area with, literally,
thousands of small fishing boats and hundreds of larger ones. I don't
even see that many Bayliner Trophies on Chesapeake Bay, although I do
see plenty of Bayliners.



--
* * *
email sent to will *never* get to me.

Well, I fished off the Georgia-Florida Coast for six years, several
times a week and at least one day on the weekend (unless the weather was
horrible), and in the ICW and so forth, and in all those years, I saw
one Bayliner Trophy engaged in offshore fishing. In fact, I knew the
owner of that boat. I generally fished from the St. Mary's River in
Georgia down past St. Augustine in Florida, an area with, literally,
thousands of small fishing boats and hundreds of larger ones. I don't
even see that many Bayliner Trophies on Chesapeake Bay, although I do
see plenty of Bayliners.



I have absolutly no problem with that statement. But, let's be honest,
Harry, because you didn't see them does that really mean that they don't
exist? Can you at least entertain the possibility that you don't know
every boat in this vast area, and there may be more than just ONE trophy
going offshore? It really doesn't mean your statement is less valid, it
just means that in such a boad expanse, it's impossible to know
everything.

It is one thing to state "in all those years, I saw one Bayliner Trophy
engaged in offshore fishing" It's quite another thing to state there is
not ONE Trophy used for charter in 500 miles of developed coastline, as
Scott has directly stated. How can he possibly have knowledge of that
fact? That is why I accuse Scott of pulling "facts" out of his ass. He
could have just as categorically stated Trophys are the only boats boats
used by charter captains in this 500 mile area, it still adds up to the
same bull****.

My argument with Scott, you or anyone, isn't that Bayliner isn't
unpopular, or is best choice for a specific region or for a spefic
purpose. I argue that if a Bayliner model is not suited for a specific
application, their are other comparable models from other brands that are
probably unsuitable as well. As such Bayliner should not be singled out.

I have tried to be objective, and keep an open mind by not using my
experience to say "Bayliners are great", I really do think they are for
their price, but I think people have a point when they say their not
interested in owning one.

But I think you and others should give due consideration to my assertion
that not all Bayliners are "bad", therefore Bayliners should not be so
globally maligned, without provocation as you and others have done in the
past, that all.

You don't have to like 'em, but I believe when you go snubbing or bashing
any person or boat in this group, without giving due consideration, you
are being rude and doing the entire group a disservice.

Bob Dimond

"Bob D." wrote in message
...



Well, I fished off the Georgia-Florida Coast for six years, several
times a week and at least one day on the weekend (unless the weather was
horrible), and in the ICW and so forth, and in all those years, I saw
one Bayliner Trophy engaged in offshore fishing. In fact, I knew the
owner of that boat. I generally fished from the St. Mary's River in
Georgia down past St. Augustine in Florida, an area with, literally,
thousands of small fishing boats and hundreds of larger ones. I don't
even see that many Bayliner Trophies on Chesapeake Bay, although I do
see plenty of Bayliners.



I have absolutly no problem with that statement. But, let's be honest,
Harry, because you didn't see them does that really mean that they don't
exist?

Let's not get too existential in here, eh?

It is one thing to state "in all those years, I saw one Bayliner Trophy
engaged in offshore fishing" It's quite another thing to state there is
not ONE Trophy used for charter in 500 miles of developed coastline, as
Scott has directly stated.

There was one Bayliner Trophy used by a near-shore charter captain out of
Jax. The only one I ever saw in all the years I fished that area.

My argument with Scott, you or anyone, isn't that Bayliner isn't
unpopular, or is best choice for a specific region or for a spefic
purpose. I argue that if a Bayliner model is not suited for a specific
application, their are other comparable models from other brands that are
probably unsuitable as well. As such Bayliner should not be singled out.

Why not? I've been aboard enough Bayliner Trophy boats to form an opinion
about them.


But I think you and others should give due consideration to my assertion
that not all Bayliners are "bad", therefore Bayliners should not be so
globally maligned, without provocation as you and others have done in the
past, that all.

Indeed, some Bayliners have worked their way up to mediocre.

Bob, I have no interest in "all" Bayliners or even very many of them.
I have looked over the Trophies extensively over the years and determined
their shortcomings are such I would not want one.

Most of the larger non-Trophy Bayliners do not even slightly interest me,
because they are too underpowered, too flat-bottomed, powered with I/O's,.
have small fuel tanks, and so forth and so on. And I haven't addressed
qualitative issues.

I saw your "great bayliner story", and Chuck Gould (as usual) made the
necessary post pointing out your all too typical, overly enthusiastic
newbie power boater, foolhardiness. Take a cab, bus, call a
friend/relative, ect, to get home next time.


I have no problem with Gould, Wally, or most people in this group. My
problem is with a few elitist who thrive on the "My boat is better than
your boat" mentality. I really don't care who you are or what type of
boat you own, this elitism goes against the grain of everthing I was
raised to cherish with respect to the civility and comaraderie of the
boating fraternity. In all my travels through the great lakes, and even
the Florida panhandle, it is, thankfully, a rarity to encounter this
mindset. Sadly it is all too prevelant in this group.

Gould made some very good points and was tactful about the points he
wanted to make. he wasn't responding to belittle a person or boat, or to
cite how great his brand of boat is, but to express his opinion and
legitimate concerns. I respect anyone who tactfully points out the
flaws in something using known facts and personal experience as he did,
instead of slinging left-handed or derrogatory remarks, by making casual
inferences that are of questionable relevance to their statement.

In my response to Gould's post I conceeded he was right. I noticed I had
said: "lack of experience" in the sixth paragraph in my story, when I
wanted to say was: "lack of experience pulling this vessel out of a tight
mooring". I further qualified my remarks, stating that I did have
sufficient rough water experience and equipment to minimize the risk and
make the venture a little less foolhardy than it seemed. I had
experience, on this specific route, how to minimize weather, take
advantage of the lees in the passage, as well as carry redundant safety
equipment (tranceiver, GPS, flares, day signal, portable air horn. cell
phone), in a watertight box in case the worst happened.

I don't think my response changed Gould's mind on what he thought of the
passage, and that's okay. Hopefully, it clarified that I was not some
newbie cowboy, going out yelling "Yee Haaa" without a thought of what
they were getting into or how to handle it when they hit it.

BTW - I never claimed to be the brightest bulb in the strand, but
suggesting to take a cab or a bus from an island??? If you had read the
posts in this thread, you would have known that was not an alternative, as
well the fact that I was not taking my boat out unprepared.


But since you bring it up, you've been powerboating since 1999, right?


Well, since you brought it up, you're wrong. I've been powerboating on
western Lake Erie since 1969. In boats ranging from a 15 foot bowrider
to a 40' Wheeler under power. I've been sailing since about 1993 in boats
from a 16' Cat boat to a 40' Trimarran. In thirty years plus of boating
at this location, while I haven't seen everything, I seen enough to
minimize my risks for chances I am willing to take. The majority of
fatialities in my area are from people who don't assume, plan, and are not
ready, for the bad conditions.


You had that 16'er for one whole "season", right?


Owned the 16' one season, docked in Sandusky for 1/2 a season. My
sailboat was up there previosly, so I didn't take it out on weekends until
the later half. Instead I putted around Cleveland, launching from Rocky
River, which I do not count as miles because it wasn't "on a trip" by my
definition.


You put an awe inspiring "250 miles" on it, right? (I've done half
that in one weekend)


125 miles in one weekend is a nice trip. I won't belittle it as you tried
to. What kind of boat was it on? The trip I described in the story you
supposedly read was the last leg home from a trip to Windsor Ontario, at
least a 130 miles round trip. Once again, if you had bothered to read,
instead of just scanning for things to criticiize, you would have saved
your smartass comment for another time. Also I've done almost three
times the 125 mile distance you cited in the weekend time you've
specified, just not in a 16' boat.

That would mean you've had your current boat for less than 3 years,
right?


Yeah I think I owned the Trophy for either 2 1/2 or 3 1/2 seasons. My
current boat is a 23' Chris-Craft, just in this year, is still in
shakedown until the '04 season. What's your point?


Why don't you come back when you get a little experience and let the
poundings you like to submit yourself to begin to take their toll on
your boat. Just because you were very fortunate one time doesn't prove
much either, Mr Logic, except for some exceedingly poor judgement on
your part.


Ouch. Okay, Scott. I'm back! And if you had been following this thread
you would have noted that I had a familiarity with rough seas on the
western end of Lake Erie long before I acquired the 16 foot cuddy. In my
childhood on my father's boats, as an adult boating with friends, and my
own sailboats, is where I've gained my experience in rough weather boat
handling in this region.

I've been out in three models of Bayliner, and numerous other boats from
Sea Ray, Four Winns, Jersey, Wheeler, Lyman, Richardson, Chris-Craft, etc,
all in conditions that ranged from wonderful to worst. My experiences
have formed the opinion that, foot per foot, a Bayliner can handle these
seas as well as any other boat I've been on. I'm sorry but basing an
opinion on the viability of Bayliners based on actual personal experience
is a damn sight better logic, than pulling a statement out of your ass
about how many Bayliners are used for charter on 500 miles miles of
coastline, or counting the pictures of Bayliners on a fishing web site.

I've done what you asked, returning when I had the experience, why don't
you reciprocate the same courtesy and come back when you can read a
complete thread, and offer substancial information to debate posts.


Better yet go to www.boatnerd.com and look for information on Lake Erie.

I am well aware of the Great Lakes.


Good. Assuming that your awarness comes from personal experience and not
a web site, I hope you enjoyed them as much as I have in the last
thirty-four years.

This means that not all Bayliners can be dismissed as crap, and people who
feel the need to single out and dismiss all Bayliners, are behaving in
an ignorant manner.

I never said they were "crap".

Your right, Scott. You never said that "baylinesr were crap". But if you:

Start tossing out snobby left-handed remarks, pooh poohing, a brand name
that people own and take pride in owning, as if the boat and their owners
are beneath you.

Cite vague reference of questionable relevance, passing it off as fact,
then, when someone calls you on it, try to change the argument by pointing
out some insignificant detail, or hide behind your words, because you
didn't actually "say it", only implied it.

Then Scott, your not someone who wants to teach those with less experience
and learn from those with more experiece. You're not echoing the very
core of the boating fraternity, that I believe rec.boats was created to
emulate. Instead your an ignorant elitist, who is more concerned with
flinging your crap with no more thought than a monkey at the zoo.

Like anything else in life, Scott, you choose how to behave. Don't
dismiss or imply someone elses boating choices as beneath you standards,
and expect a warn reception.