On Jul 15, 12:54*pm, wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jul 2011 05:24:15 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc





wrote:
On Jul 15, 6:19*am, "Steve" wrote:
The module I used was from a car. It worked fine.
I took the boat out yesturday and beat the hell out of it, It ran fine.. This
is whats driving me nuts. I hate intermittent problems. I did replace the
coil with a known good one, I am going to check the old coil to see if it is
within spec this weekend
Thanks
Steve"jamesgangnc" wrote in message

....
On Jul 13, 10:17 pm, "Steve" wrote:

Well its not a pinhole in the pickup tube. Have started or seen the boat
since sunday. Started right up. So i be thinking...
What about the internals of the distributor, can a pick up coil go bad?
Can I use a igntion module from a car to test it again? Does anyone test
ignition modules?
Thanks
Steve"Florida Jim" wrote in message

eb.com...

On 7/13/2011 1:04 PM, John H wrote:
On Wed, 13 Jul 2011 11:07:38 -0500, Boating All
wrote:

In ,
says...

OK let me start over, It is the Chevy 3.0 litre engine.(4 stroke)
alpha
gen
II outdrive. a 2005 to be exact.
Symptoms: Will run great all day, when it gets to a half tank or at
the end
of the day, it will start and run fine, but when it idles for longer
than 10
minutes, it will die. Then after it dies, it is VERY hard to start
and
will
only stay running at over 2k rpm. go back to it in a day or so, it
runs
fine
Runs great all day. So it's not a heat/electrics problem.
Half tank it gives problems.
That means a bad fuel pump or bad tank venting.
Check fuel pressure at full tank and at half tank.
Simple.
Bad tank venting. I hadn't seen that yet, but it sounds like it could
be
the problem. Create a
vacuum and you've got a problem.

Good 'eyes'.
Another guess. Pin holes in pickup tube in gas tank.

--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to
---- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Electronics affected by heat very seldom operates partially. *If the
trigger sensor in the distributor or the ignition module is failing
when hot it would be a lot more likely to fail completely. *Then work
again when cooled.

You said you tried a known good module? *What happened then?

The merc ignition components are pretty reliable.

--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to ---- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

From a car? *How did you manage to get a car electronic ignition to
work on a merc? *Not saying it can't be done but why?

Why not. These I/Os are basically just auto/truck engines with
marinized parts where they might spark. (alternators starters etc)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes, but the trigger and the trigger module are generally designed to
work as a pair. And on boats there is no vacuum advance and often no
mechanical advance either. All the advance is handled by the module.
On cars the vacuum advance was used because the engine load is not
consistent like it is on a boat. Then all of that changed completely
when cars went to computerized spark controls. Could you make a car
one from the era when cars still had them work, sure. But it's not
just going to plug in to the thunderbolt connector.

On Jul 15, 2:09*pm, wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jul 2011 10:41:07 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc





wrote:
On Jul 15, 12:54*pm, wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jul 2011 05:24:15 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc

From a car? *How did you manage to get a car electronic ignition to
work on a merc? *Not saying it can't be done but why?

Why not. These I/Os are basically just auto/truck engines with
marinized parts where they might spark. (alternators starters etc)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes, but the trigger and the trigger module are generally designed to
work as a pair. *And on boats there is no vacuum advance and often no
mechanical advance either. *All the advance is handled by the module.
On cars the vacuum advance was used because the engine load is not
consistent like it is on a boat. *Then all of that changed completely
when cars went to computerized spark controls. *Could you make a car
one from the era when cars still had them work, sure. *But it's not
just going to plug in to the thunderbolt connector.

I got the impression he was just testing to diagnose an idle problem.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

And I was asking how exactly he did that. He said he used a car
module. Well the only ignition module I know of that plugs into the
merc harness is the merc thunderbolt one. And you won't get the merc
one off a car. So I wanted more details. No matter why he did it I
don't understand how he did it.

I looked up the numbers on the module, its the same module that is used on
all gm igntions systems. Remember this is a 2005 with the electronic
iginition.
There is no mechanical advance or vacuum advance. it is all done in the
module.. As far as the coil goes, I looked up the numbers off the coil, same
coil (different mount) as a coil off of a 1987-1994 gm blazer or anything
with the 4.3 v6 OR the small block V8

"jamesgangnc" wrote in message
...
On Jul 15, 2:09 pm, wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jul 2011 10:41:07 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc





wrote:
On Jul 15, 12:54 pm, wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jul 2011 05:24:15 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc

From a car? How did you manage to get a car electronic ignition to
work on a merc? Not saying it can't be done but why?

Why not. These I/Os are basically just auto/truck engines with
marinized parts where they might spark. (alternators starters etc)-
Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes, but the trigger and the trigger module are generally designed to
work as a pair. And on boats there is no vacuum advance and often no
mechanical advance either. All the advance is handled by the module.
On cars the vacuum advance was used because the engine load is not
consistent like it is on a boat. Then all of that changed completely
when cars went to computerized spark controls. Could you make a car
one from the era when cars still had them work, sure. But it's not
just going to plug in to the thunderbolt connector.

I got the impression he was just testing to diagnose an idle problem.-
Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

And I was asking how exactly he did that. He said he used a car
module. Well the only ignition module I know of that plugs into the
merc harness is the merc thunderbolt one. And you won't get the merc
one off a car. So I wanted more details. No matter why he did it I
don't understand how he did it.



--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to ---

On Jul 16, 5:49*pm, "Steve" wrote:
I looked up the numbers on the module, its the same module that is used on
all gm igntions systems. Remember this is a 2005 with the electronic
iginition.
There is no mechanical advance or vacuum advance. it is all done in the
module.. As far as the coil goes, I looked up the numbers off the coil, same
coil (different mount) as a coil off of a 1987-1994 gm blazer or anything
with the 4.3 v6 OR the small block V8

"jamesgangnc" wrote in message

...
On Jul 15, 2:09 pm, wrote:





On Fri, 15 Jul 2011 10:41:07 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc

wrote:
On Jul 15, 12:54 pm, wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jul 2011 05:24:15 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc

From a car? How did you manage to get a car electronic ignition to
work on a merc? Not saying it can't be done but why?

Why not. These I/Os are basically just auto/truck engines with
marinized parts where they might spark. (alternators starters etc)-
Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes, but the trigger and the trigger module are generally designed to
work as a pair. And on boats there is no vacuum advance and often no
mechanical advance either. All the advance is handled by the module.
On cars the vacuum advance was used because the engine load is not
consistent like it is on a boat. Then all of that changed completely
when cars went to computerized spark controls. Could you make a car
one from the era when cars still had them work, sure. But it's not
just going to plug in to the thunderbolt connector.

I got the impression he was just testing to diagnose an idle problem.-
Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

And I was asking how exactly he did that. *He said he used a car
module. *Well the only ignition module I know of that plugs into the
merc harness is the merc thunderbolt one. *And you won't get the merc
one off a car. *So I wanted more details. *No matter why he did it I
don't understand how he did it.

--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to ---- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes, I realized it was electronic ignition. Merc has had electronic
ignition for a pretty long time. Since late 80s I think. I didn't
know they had started switching over to gm modules, for a long time
they made their own thunderbolt module. The early automotive modules
still relied on vacuum advance to detect when the engine was under a
load at low rpm. Today on cars the computer controls everything and
most cars now have gone to individual coil/module packs per spark
plug.

I still would put the electronics at the bottom of my list. Heat
associated failure of electronics is generally always total failure
until it cools back down.

I still suspect heat soak of something though. Did you try leaving
the engine cover off for a day to see if that delays or eliminates the
problem?

engine cover off, no go. started acting up again.
What about the antisiphon valve?
Thanks
Steve
"jamesgangnc" wrote in message
...
On Jul 16, 5:49 pm, "Steve" wrote:
I looked up the numbers on the module, its the same module that is used on
all gm igntions systems. Remember this is a 2005 with the electronic
iginition.
There is no mechanical advance or vacuum advance. it is all done in the
module.. As far as the coil goes, I looked up the numbers off the coil,
same
coil (different mount) as a coil off of a 1987-1994 gm blazer or anything
with the 4.3 v6 OR the small block V8

"jamesgangnc" wrote in message

...
On Jul 15, 2:09 pm, wrote:





On Fri, 15 Jul 2011 10:41:07 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc

wrote:
On Jul 15, 12:54 pm, wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jul 2011 05:24:15 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc

From a car? How did you manage to get a car electronic ignition to
work on a merc? Not saying it can't be done but why?

Why not. These I/Os are basically just auto/truck engines with
marinized parts where they might spark. (alternators starters etc)-
Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes, but the trigger and the trigger module are generally designed to
work as a pair. And on boats there is no vacuum advance and often no
mechanical advance either. All the advance is handled by the module.
On cars the vacuum advance was used because the engine load is not
consistent like it is on a boat. Then all of that changed completely
when cars went to computerized spark controls. Could you make a car
one from the era when cars still had them work, sure. But it's not
just going to plug in to the thunderbolt connector.

I got the impression he was just testing to diagnose an idle problem.-
Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

And I was asking how exactly he did that. He said he used a car
module. Well the only ignition module I know of that plugs into the
merc harness is the merc thunderbolt one. And you won't get the merc
one off a car. So I wanted more details. No matter why he did it I
don't understand how he did it.

--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to
---- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes, I realized it was electronic ignition. Merc has had electronic
ignition for a pretty long time. Since late 80s I think. I didn't
know they had started switching over to gm modules, for a long time
they made their own thunderbolt module. The early automotive modules
still relied on vacuum advance to detect when the engine was under a
load at low rpm. Today on cars the computer controls everything and
most cars now have gone to individual coil/module packs per spark
plug.

I still would put the electronics at the bottom of my list. Heat
associated failure of electronics is generally always total failure
until it cools back down.

I still suspect heat soak of something though. Did you try leaving
the engine cover off for a day to see if that delays or eliminates the
problem?



--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to ---

In article ,
says...

engine cover off, no go. started acting up again.
What about the antisiphon valve?
Thanks
Steve
"jamesgangnc" wrote in message
...
On Jul 16, 5:49 pm, "Steve" wrote:
I looked up the numbers on the module, its the same module that is used on
all gm igntions systems. Remember this is a 2005 with the electronic
iginition.
There is no mechanical advance or vacuum advance. it is all done in the
module.. As far as the coil goes, I looked up the numbers off the coil,
same
coil (different mount) as a coil off of a 1987-1994 gm blazer or anything
with the 4.3 v6 OR the small block V8

"jamesgangnc" wrote in message

...
On Jul 15, 2:09 pm, wrote:





On Fri, 15 Jul 2011 10:41:07 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc

wrote:
On Jul 15, 12:54 pm, wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jul 2011 05:24:15 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc

From a car? How did you manage to get a car electronic ignition to
work on a merc? Not saying it can't be done but why?

Why not. These I/Os are basically just auto/truck engines with
marinized parts where they might spark. (alternators starters etc)-
Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes, but the trigger and the trigger module are generally designed to
work as a pair. And on boats there is no vacuum advance and often no
mechanical advance either. All the advance is handled by the module.
On cars the vacuum advance was used because the engine load is not
consistent like it is on a boat. Then all of that changed completely
when cars went to computerized spark controls. Could you make a car
one from the era when cars still had them work, sure. But it's not
just going to plug in to the thunderbolt connector.

I got the impression he was just testing to diagnose an idle problem.-
Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

And I was asking how exactly he did that. He said he used a car
module. Well the only ignition module I know of that plugs into the
merc harness is the merc thunderbolt one. And you won't get the merc
one off a car. So I wanted more details. No matter why he did it I
don't understand how he did it.

--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to
---- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes, I realized it was electronic ignition. Merc has had electronic
ignition for a pretty long time. Since late 80s I think. I didn't
know they had started switching over to gm modules, for a long time
they made their own thunderbolt module. The early automotive modules
still relied on vacuum advance to detect when the engine was under a
load at low rpm. Today on cars the computer controls everything and
most cars now have gone to individual coil/module packs per spark
plug.

I still would put the electronics at the bottom of my list. Heat
associated failure of electronics is generally always total failure
until it cools back down.

I still suspect heat soak of something though. Did you try leaving
the engine cover off for a day to see if that delays or eliminates the
problem?



--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to ---

Still wondering what it takes to check the valve lash on these things...

--
Team Rowdy Mouse, Banned from the Mall for life!

On 7/19/2011 7:51 AM, I_am_Tosk wrote:
In ,
says...
engine cover off, no go. started acting up again.
What about the antisiphon valve?
Thanks
Steve
wrote in message
...
On Jul 16, 5:49 pm, wrote:
I looked up the numbers on the module, its the same module that is used on
all gm igntions systems. Remember this is a 2005 with the electronic
iginition.
There is no mechanical advance or vacuum advance. it is all done in the
module.. As far as the coil goes, I looked up the numbers off the coil,
same
coil (different mount) as a coil off of a 1987-1994 gm blazer or anything
with the 4.3 v6 OR the small block V8

wrote in message

...
On Jul 15, 2:09 pm, wrote:





On Fri, 15 Jul 2011 10:41:07 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc
wrote:
On Jul 15, 12:54 pm, wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jul 2011 05:24:15 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc
From a car? How did you manage to get a car electronic ignition to
work on a merc? Not saying it can't be done but why?
Why not. These I/Os are basically just auto/truck engines with
marinized parts where they might spark. (alternators starters etc)-
Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Yes, but the trigger and the trigger module are generally designed to
work as a pair. And on boats there is no vacuum advance and often no
mechanical advance either. All the advance is handled by the module.
On cars the vacuum advance was used because the engine load is not
consistent like it is on a boat. Then all of that changed completely
when cars went to computerized spark controls. Could you make a car
one from the era when cars still had them work, sure. But it's not
just going to plug in to the thunderbolt connector.
I got the impression he was just testing to diagnose an idle problem.-
Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
And I was asking how exactly he did that. He said he used a car
module. Well the only ignition module I know of that plugs into the
merc harness is the merc thunderbolt one. And you won't get the merc
one off a car. So I wanted more details. No matter why he did it I
don't understand how he did it.

--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to
---- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Yes, I realized it was electronic ignition. Merc has had electronic
ignition for a pretty long time. Since late 80s I think. I didn't
know they had started switching over to gm modules, for a long time
they made their own thunderbolt module. The early automotive modules
still relied on vacuum advance to detect when the engine was under a
load at low rpm. Today on cars the computer controls everything and
most cars now have gone to individual coil/module packs per spark
plug.

I still would put the electronics at the bottom of my list. Heat
associated failure of electronics is generally always total failure
until it cools back down.

I still suspect heat soak of something though. Did you try leaving
the engine cover off for a day to see if that delays or eliminates the
problem?



--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to ---
Still wondering what it takes to check the valve lash on these things...

hydraulic lifters

On 7/19/2011 6:25 AM, Steve wrote:
engine cover off, no go. started acting up again.
What about the antisiphon valve?
Thanks
Steve
wrote in message
...
On Jul 16, 5:49 pm, wrote:
I looked up the numbers on the module, its the same module that is used on
all gm igntions systems. Remember this is a 2005 with the electronic
iginition.
There is no mechanical advance or vacuum advance. it is all done in the
module.. As far as the coil goes, I looked up the numbers off the coil,
same
coil (different mount) as a coil off of a 1987-1994 gm blazer or anything
with the 4.3 v6 OR the small block V8

wrote in message

...
On Jul 15, 2:09 pm, wrote:





On Fri, 15 Jul 2011 10:41:07 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc
wrote:
On Jul 15, 12:54 pm, wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jul 2011 05:24:15 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc
From a car? How did you manage to get a car electronic ignition to
work on a merc? Not saying it can't be done but why?
Why not. These I/Os are basically just auto/truck engines with
marinized parts where they might spark. (alternators starters etc)-
Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Yes, but the trigger and the trigger module are generally designed to
work as a pair. And on boats there is no vacuum advance and often no
mechanical advance either. All the advance is handled by the module.
On cars the vacuum advance was used because the engine load is not
consistent like it is on a boat. Then all of that changed completely
when cars went to computerized spark controls. Could you make a car
one from the era when cars still had them work, sure. But it's not
just going to plug in to the thunderbolt connector.
I got the impression he was just testing to diagnose an idle problem.-
Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
And I was asking how exactly he did that. He said he used a car
module. Well the only ignition module I know of that plugs into the
merc harness is the merc thunderbolt one. And you won't get the merc
one off a car. So I wanted more details. No matter why he did it I
don't understand how he did it.

--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to
---- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Yes, I realized it was electronic ignition. Merc has had electronic
ignition for a pretty long time. Since late 80s I think. I didn't
know they had started switching over to gm modules, for a long time
they made their own thunderbolt module. The early automotive modules
still relied on vacuum advance to detect when the engine was under a
load at low rpm. Today on cars the computer controls everything and
most cars now have gone to individual coil/module packs per spark
plug.

I still would put the electronics at the bottom of my list. Heat
associated failure of electronics is generally always total failure
until it cools back down.

I still suspect heat soak of something though. Did you try leaving
the engine cover off for a day to see if that delays or eliminates the
problem?



--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to ---
You can visually inspect that. It's just a ball and spring. Can we
assume you removed the pickup tube and inspected it for a clogged screen
or pin holes? You can eliminate the vent by leaving the gas cap loose.
Collapsing rubber fuel lines are sometimes hard to detect; especially if
the hose has delaminated.
If you have a spin on fuel filter, you can remove it when the engine
stalls and see if it's full of gas. You can dump the gas from the filter
into a glass container and see if it's contaminated with sediment or
water. The fuel system fittings up to the fuel pump must be air tight or
you won't get good suction. Did you weigh the float in the carb. and
check the float level adjustment? Did you replace the carb. inlet
filter? Is your flame arrestor clean? If the metal fuel line runs to
close to the hot engine you can put a bit of insulation on it. The
thermostat must be functioning for the engine to run properly. Did you
fix it? Is the choke operating properly. Electrically you have the
ignition module, trigger module, coil, coil tower lead, and neutral
safety switch. The manual might have some test procedures, otherwise
it's swap them out. Most of this has been said before but you still have
a problem. You need to go back to square one and start over.
Good luck.

On Jul 19, 9:20*am, Florida Jim wrote:
On 7/19/2011 6:25 AM, Steve wrote:



engine cover off, no go. started acting up again.
What about the antisiphon valve?
Thanks
Steve
*wrote in message
...
On Jul 16, 5:49 pm, *wrote:
I looked up the numbers on the module, its the same module that is used on
all gm igntions systems. Remember this is a 2005 with the electronic
iginition.
There is no mechanical advance or vacuum advance. it is all done in the
module.. As far as the coil goes, I looked up the numbers off the coil,
same
coil (different mount) as a coil off of a 1987-1994 gm blazer or anything
with the 4.3 v6 OR the small block V8

*wrote in message

....
On Jul 15, 2:09 pm, wrote:

On Fri, 15 Jul 2011 10:41:07 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc
*wrote:
On Jul 15, 12:54 pm, wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jul 2011 05:24:15 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc
From a car? How did you manage to get a car electronic ignition to
work on a merc? Not saying it can't be done but why?
Why not. These I/Os are basically just auto/truck engines with
marinized parts where they might spark. (alternators starters etc)-
Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Yes, but the trigger and the trigger module are generally designed to
work as a pair. And on boats there is no vacuum advance and often no
mechanical advance either. All the advance is handled by the module.
On cars the vacuum advance was used because the engine load is not
consistent like it is on a boat. Then all of that changed completely
when cars went to computerized spark controls. Could you make a car
one from the era when cars still had them work, sure. But it's not
just going to plug in to the thunderbolt connector.
I got the impression he was just testing to diagnose an idle problem.-
Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
And I was asking how exactly he did that. He said he used a car
module. Well the only ignition module I know of that plugs into the
merc harness is the merc thunderbolt one. And you won't get the merc
one off a car. So I wanted more details. No matter why he did it I
don't understand how he did it.

--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to
---- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Yes, I realized it was electronic ignition. *Merc has had electronic
ignition for a pretty long time. *Since late 80s I think. *I didn't
know they had started switching over to gm modules, for a long time
they made their own thunderbolt module. *The early automotive modules
still relied on vacuum advance to detect when the engine was under a
load at low rpm. *Today on cars the computer controls everything and
most cars now have gone to individual coil/module packs per spark
plug.

I still would put the electronics at the bottom of my list. *Heat
associated failure of electronics is generally always total failure
until it cools back down.

I still suspect heat soak of something though. *Did you try leaving
the engine cover off for a day to see if that delays or eliminates the
problem?

--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to ---

You can visually inspect that. It's just a ball and spring. Can we
assume you removed the pickup tube and inspected it for a clogged screen
or pin holes? You can eliminate the vent by leaving the gas cap loose.
Collapsing rubber fuel lines are sometimes hard to detect; especially if
the hose has delaminated.
If you have a spin on fuel filter, you can remove it when the engine
stalls and see if it's full of gas. You can dump the gas from the filter
into a glass container and see if it's contaminated with sediment or
water. The fuel system fittings up to the fuel pump must be air tight or
you won't get good suction. Did you weigh the float in the carb. and
check the float level adjustment? Did you replace the carb. inlet
filter? Is your flame arrestor clean? If the metal fuel line runs to
close to the hot engine you can put a bit of insulation on it. The
thermostat must be functioning for the engine to run properly. Did you
fix it? Is the choke operating properly. Electrically you have the
ignition module, trigger module, coil, coil tower lead, and neutral
safety switch. The manual might have some test procedures, otherwise
it's swap them out. Most of this has been said before but you still have
a problem. You need to go back to square one and start over.
Good luck.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

He's got a rather specific symptom that points to the most likely
cause being a heat issue. It runs fine for a good part of the day and
then starts failing to idle. But still runs ok at higher rpms.
Starting it the next day before adding more gas and it idles fine.

He's already replaced or rebuilt a lot of stuff with no effect on this
problem.

I suggested multiple times he use it for a day with the engine cover
off.