Peter Kuhn wrote in message ...
Try using a paddle float with a stirrup setup. Most sea kayaking
books will cover this type of re-entry.

Pete


TWall10618 wrote:

I'm a pretty big guy and I worry about needing to do a solo deep water remount.
Even though I have a fairly wide boat, (Loon 160 now, earlier a Coleman Scanoe
and Folbot Super), Any unassisted attempt to remount has always flipped my
boat. (I pracitced in my swimming pool this Summer). The only thing that worked
fairly well was to tie off a cheap, half inflated swim ring and use it as a
step up. It worked, but it was ungarceful and I don't know how well it would
work in waves.

If you are trying this solo in a closed kayak you might try getting
lessons , Some kind of co operative thing in your local kayak club may
help.
On first read I thought it was an open scanoe (Coleman ) type thing
and as my wife is much more skilled there I was not going at that . Re
entry in an open canoe is tricky, hard and painfull , it results in
bruises for the over 20 crowd.
If you must use a stirrup to re enter a kayak you should not be out
alone. That is the rude truth.
A standard paddle float re entry is a good option and sponsons may
help in your circomstance. There are people spitting now but these
things have a place. They are floats that strap to your boat after an
upset, you inflate them and now you have some extra width and boyancy
to the boat.A boat with the cockpit full of water will be instable and
hard to pump out. You will be pumping about 40 gallons of water out of
an unstable boat that you just fell out of for some reason. That can't
be good.
I have a bunch of rescues at my disposal. I have a good roll, paddle
float re entry is doable , It remains ugly and akward. Re Entry Roll,
and re entry roll with paddle float. I can sometimes get onto the back
deck and re enter without an aid.
I have no illusions. when alone if something takes me out of my boat,
the roll fails and conditions have deteriorated to the point that my
boat is not around my waist I am in trouble. That is compounded by the
fact that our water is very cold.
The advice is Be Carefull!!
Find an instructor, a good one and ask.
Local clubs like ours pull of rescue clinics the odd time. Cheap but
priceless.
Good paddling
Alex McGruer

On 19-Oct-2003, (Alex McGruer) wrote:

If you must use a stirrup to re enter a kayak you should not be out
alone. That is the rude truth.

I'd agree with that. In fact, they might consider another sport.

A standard paddle float re entry is a good option and sponsons may
help in your circomstance.

The problem with both these methods is that neither addresses the
problem of needing a stirrup. Both provide extra stability, but
the issue is that he can't get up onto the deck.

ISTR that someone already suggested learning to float on the surface
and slide onto the deck. If someone can't do this and needs a stirrup,
then they are in a more difficult situation. Personally, I consider
the stirrup a poor solution except in the case of an injured paddler
(i.e. it's a temporary solution to a problem, not a standard one)
or a disabled paddler who paddles under specific conditions (e.g. with
companions who are accustomed to aiding them with the stirrup).

Otherwise, if someone can't get onto the kayak without a stirrup they
are liability to themselves and to others. Need for a stirrup indicates
a greater problem with skill or fitness. Either learn to do it by
floating or realize that a kayak isn't for you.

Find an instructor, a good one and ask.
Local clubs like ours pull of rescue clinics the odd time. Cheap but
priceless.

This is the best idea. This will either identify the issues that lead
the OP to want a stirrup and get rid of them or make the paddler
realize that they shouldn't be paddling.

Mike

"Michael Daly" wrote in message . cable.rogers.com...
On 19-Oct-2003, (Alex McGruer) wrote:

If you must use a stirrup to re enter a kayak you should not be out
alone. That is the rude truth.

I'd agree with that. In fact, they might consider another sport.

A standard paddle float re entry is a good option and sponsons may
help in your circomstance.

The problem with both these methods is that neither addresses the
problem of needing a stirrup. Both provide extra stability, but
the issue is that he can't get up onto the deck.

ISTR that someone already suggested learning to float on the surface
and slide onto the deck. If someone can't do this and needs a stirrup,
then they are in a more difficult situation. Personally, I consider
the stirrup a poor solution except in the case of an injured paddler
(i.e. it's a temporary solution to a problem, not a standard one)
or a disabled paddler who paddles under specific conditions (e.g. with
companions who are accustomed to aiding them with the stirrup).

Otherwise, if someone can't get onto the kayak without a stirrup they
are liability to themselves and to others. Need for a stirrup indicates
a greater problem with skill or fitness. Either learn to do it by
floating or realize that a kayak isn't for you.

Find an instructor, a good one and ask.
Local clubs like ours pull of rescue clinics the odd time. Cheap but
priceless.

This is the best idea. This will either identify the issues that lead
the OP to want a stirrup and get rid of them or make the paddler
realize that they shouldn't be paddling.

Mike

Hi Mike:
I am the fool that will put anyone I can fit in the cockpit of a boat
out on the water. Once I am comfortable i can get them back into the
boat we may hit salt water.
You are absolutely right in all your observations.
I know one lady that dropper over 100 Lbs just to get in a kayak and
paddle: The benefit of that far outweighed the risks of pond
paddling and a scoot into the inland protected areas we can find in
most places .
I hate like hell sending people back to the bowling allys or bingo
halls.
I have used a stirrup affair in getting one person back into the boat.
The stirrup is stowed all the time in my paddle float.
I have the odd experience that is trully funny. Folks stradling the
back deck, crawling up and sinking the cockpit then we pump like mad.
CRCA has a sticker, Kayaking and Canoeing is for everyone. OK that is
a bit too optemistic but why not try.
If a person has not at least 2 good practiced solo re entries under
their belt , solo paddling or paddling without some type of guide may
not be too wise,.
I still think this may be for an open Canadian type canoe. If that is
the case the job just became close to impossible
Chow
Alex
But You are right Mike...realy.

On 22-Oct-2003, (Alex McGruer) wrote:

CRCA has a sticker, Kayaking and Canoeing is for everyone. OK that is
a bit too optemistic but why not try.

I don't have a problem with people wanting to try, but everyone has to
realize that there are limits to their abilities and at some point it
becomes more of a risk than a hobby. I don't like saying what I did,
and I've taken flack for it in the past.

The example of the woman who lost weight is a good one. As you say,
she'll reap benefits beyond just kayaking as a result. If the initial
contact with kayaking encourages someone to lose weight/add strength/
get in shape/whatever and achieve a level of competence, then they
get more than just kayaking.

I don't know why folks take the attitude that everyone has some kind
of right to paddle regardless of physical ability or condition. For
example, in scuba diving, you aren't guaranteed a license - you can
flunk a course and be denied (except by unscrupulous operators).
When I got my license, one woman was tossed out of the course on the
first night because she simply couldn't do the most basic physical
tests. She was upset, but it was for her own good.

I'd rather send them away than see them in a body bag.

Mike

"Michael Daly" writes:

On 22-Oct-2003, (Alex McGruer) wrote:

CRCA has a sticker, Kayaking and Canoeing is for everyone. OK that is
a bit too optemistic but why not try.

I don't have a problem with people wanting to try, but everyone has to
realize that there are limits to their abilities and at some point it
becomes more of a risk than a hobby. I don't like saying what I did,
and I've taken flack for it in the past.

Well, there's also a difference between how fit/skilled/whatever you
need to be to kayak, and how fit/skilled/whatever you need to be to
kayak solo. I don't think needing a stirrup should keep someone out
of kayaking as such, but if you do, you should recognize that your
limited ability to self-rescue creates some additional risk for you,
and (if you are sensible) restricts where you can paddle, and when,
and with whom.

[snip]
I don't know why folks take the attitude that everyone has some kind
of right to paddle regardless of physical ability or condition. For
example, in scuba diving, you aren't guaranteed a license - you can
flunk a course and be denied (except by unscrupulous operators).

And in kayaking, you don't NEED a license...so, yes, everybody DOES
have "some kind of right to paddle". A license is a legal
requirement that may or may not exist for a particular sport; it's
not some kind of Get Out Of Jail Free card that divine providence
issues you that guarantees you'll never get a smackdown.

[snip]
I'd rather send them away than see them in a body bag.

Appropriate, but in any given situation, you may have a lot more
choices than just those two.

--
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::::::::::
Mary Malmros
Some days you're the windshield,
Other days you're the bug.

On 22-Oct-2003, Mary Malmros wrote:

A license is a legal
requirement that may or may not exist for a particular sport;

A scuba license has no legal status. It is a feature that is
maintained on a voluntary basis by participants (including
retailers) in the sport. You can dive without a license
if you can find someone who will lend/rent you the kit. No
one can prosecute you.

it's
not some kind of Get Out Of Jail Free card that divine providence
issues you that guarantees you'll never get a smackdown.

No, but in scuba, at least it's a sign that there are folks that
have the guts to say that not everyone is entitled to instant
gratification just because they think something's cool.

If enough idiots put themselves at risk, it'll attract the
attention of the politicians and they'll lean on all of us.
If idiots put _me_ at risk, it interferes with my pursuit of
life, liberty and happiness (as Americans would put it) and
I greatly object to that.

Mike

"Michael Daly" writes:

On 22-Oct-2003, Mary Malmros wrote:

A license is a legal
requirement that may or may not exist for a particular sport;

A scuba license has no legal status. It is a feature that is
maintained on a voluntary basis by participants (including
retailers) in the sport. You can dive without a license
if you can find someone who will lend/rent you the kit. No
one can prosecute you.

There you go! You got a divine right to scuba.

it's
not some kind of Get Out Of Jail Free card that divine providence
issues you that guarantees you'll never get a smackdown.

No, but in scuba, at least it's a sign that there are folks that
have the guts to say that not everyone is entitled to instant
gratification just because they think something's cool.

And it's all about guts, hmmmm? And nobody does anything like this
in kayaking? My local whitewataer outfitter won't rent a boat to
anyone except if they sign a pretty long form in which they have to
specifically initial statements that they have various skills.
Somehow, I don't think this is atypical. I doubt you'll find a
whitewater outfitter who'll rent a hardshell boat to anyone with a
wallet and a pulse who walks through the door.

If enough idiots put themselves at risk, it'll attract the
attention of the politicians and they'll lean on all of us.

I've heard this assertion many times, but not once yet heard a
convincing argument to support it...merely emotional rants about
lawyers and litigious society and so on. Show me a reasonably
parallel situation where similar events have caused "the
politicians" to "lean on" participants as a whole -- presuably with
the effect of restricting their activity -- and I will perhaps be
somewhat more inclined to believe that someone dying because he
can't do a self-rescue is going to mean the end of kayaking as we
know it. Meanwhile, here in Massachusetts, two women died kayaking
within the last couple of weeks, in what was quite likely a case of
insufficient preparation and/or skills and/or judgment. I have yet
to hear of any talk from any politicians anywhere who are deploring
the inherent dangers of kayaking and seeking to save paddlers from
themselves, and somehow I don't think it's gonna happen.

--
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::::::::::
Mary Malmros
Some days you're the windshield,
Other days you're the bug.

Mary Malmros ) writes:

Well, there's also a difference between how fit/skilled/whatever you
need to be to kayak, and how fit/skilled/whatever you need to be to
kayak solo. I don't think needing a stirrup should keep someone out
of kayaking as such, but if you do, you should recognize that your
limited ability to self-rescue creates some additional risk for you,
and (if you are sensible) restricts where you can paddle, and when,
and with whom.

the other approach is to choose a kayak suited to the paddler's ability.
nothing wrong with a bigger more stable kayak. or with anti-capsize aids
like sponsons.
--
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On 25-Oct-2003, (William R. Watt) wrote:

nothing wrong with a bigger more stable kayak. or with anti-capsize aids
like sponsons

And we've told you countless times that a boat that's more stable
in calm water is less stable in rough water - when you're more likely
to go over. But you _still_ don't get it!

Mike

"Michael Daly" ) writes:
On 19-Oct-2003, (Alex McGruer) wrote:

If you must use a stirrup to re enter a kayak you should not be out
alone. That is the rude truth.

I'd agree with that. In fact, they might consider another sport.

A standard paddle float re entry is a good option and sponsons may
help in your circomstance.

The problem with both these methods is that neither addresses the
problem of needing a stirrup. Both provide extra stability, but
the issue is that he can't get up onto the deck.

ISTR that someone already suggested learning to float on the surface
and slide onto the deck.

I've written here befor of my experince using an old horse collar PFD
under my hips to keep them on the surface while sliding into my small boat
from the side. Any boat cushion type floatation device would do.
--
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homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
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