I'm a pretty big guy and I worry about needing to do a solo deep water remount.
Even though I have a fairly wide boat, (Loon 160 now, earlier a Coleman Scanoe
and Folbot Super), Any unassisted attempt to remount has always flipped my
boat. (I pracitced in my swimming pool this Summer). The only thing that worked
fairly well was to tie off a cheap, half inflated swim ring and use it as a
step up. It worked, but it was ungarceful and I don't know how well it would
work in waves.

Now that my pool is too cold to experiment in, I think I have an improvement on
the idea and would like some feedback.

What if you took a long adjustable strap and tied one end to a swim ring? The
other end would go under the boat and then over the cockpit and be lashed to
some point inside the boat. Another strap and ring would be rigged from the
other side. Now, all you would need would be a foot stirup on the side you
wanted to mount from and in you'd go before the boat flipped.

I'm not sure this would work, but it would be cheap and would provide a stable
Summer swimming platform.

Has anyone tried this before?

Tom,
Tucson

That sounds similar to, but more complicated than, a modification of
the paddle float self-rescue that uses a strap with a loop on it.
Not sure if the loop is attached to the paddle or the boat itself
somehow...I never used it myself.

--
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::::::::::
Mary Malmros
Some days you're the windshield,
Other days you're the bug.

I too am a large person and worried about an open water re-entry. I'm very
interested in your experience.

1. Can you provide a better description of what you call a "swim ring"? Can
you point to a picture of one on the web somewhere?

2. I don't understand your description of the setup (the second one
described). Can you elaborate?

Thanks!


"TWall10618" wrote in message
...
I'm a pretty big guy and I worry about needing to do a solo deep water
remount.
Even though I have a fairly wide boat, (Loon 160 now, earlier a Coleman
Scanoe
and Folbot Super), Any unassisted attempt to remount has always flipped my
boat. (I pracitced in my swimming pool this Summer). The only thing that
worked
fairly well was to tie off a cheap, half inflated swim ring and use it as
a
step up. It worked, but it was ungarceful and I don't know how well it
would
work in waves.

Now that my pool is too cold to experiment in, I think I have an
improvement on
the idea and would like some feedback.

What if you took a long adjustable strap and tied one end to a swim ring?
The
other end would go under the boat and then over the cockpit and be lashed
to
some point inside the boat. Another strap and ring would be rigged from
the
other side. Now, all you would need would be a foot stirup on the side you
wanted to mount from and in you'd go before the boat flipped.

I'm not sure this would work, but it would be cheap and would provide a
stable
Summer swimming platform.

Has anyone tried this before?

Tom,
Tucson

If you are in whitewater, I would be wary of any plan that relied on
unleashing straps long enough to present an entanglement problem. In flat
water (if I understand your idea correctly) the entanglement risk would be
less of a concern.

Whether it actually would work is a matter of the actual mechanics of your
lash-up. You probably will have to wait until you can actually try it.

For what it's worth.

Rich Phillips

Try using a paddle float with a stirrup setup. Most sea kayaking
books will cover this type of re-entry.

Pete


TWall10618 wrote:

I'm a pretty big guy and I worry about needing to do a solo deep water remount.
Even though I have a fairly wide boat, (Loon 160 now, earlier a Coleman Scanoe
and Folbot Super), Any unassisted attempt to remount has always flipped my
boat. (I pracitced in my swimming pool this Summer). The only thing that worked
fairly well was to tie off a cheap, half inflated swim ring and use it as a
step up. It worked, but it was ungarceful and I don't know how well it would
work in waves.

Ken wrote:

I too am a large person and worried about an open water re-entry. I'm very
interested in your experience.


I assume that by "large", you mean that you have a lot of body fat.
Assuming that's the case, you need to use the buoyancy that it creates
to your advantage. The biggest problem I see when people are having
trouble with self rescues is that they try to come straight out of the
water vertically, which simply doesn't work. The heavier you are, the
more weight you have to try to lift and the more difficult it is to haul
yourself up. Stirrups and similar gimmicks encourage this poor
technique. They're also a great way to break a paddle and create an
entanglement hazard.

The key to self rescue is to float yourself to the surface face down
(lying in the water on your belly) with your legs on the surface, then
slide yourself up and across the aft deck of your boat. Perhaps a
better way to look at it is that you're pushing the boat down and
pulling it under you. This uses your natural buoyancy to keep you on the
surface and your weight to push the boat down. A boat with a low aft
deck really helps, though most boats sized for larger people tend to
have high decks, which compounds the problems of re-entry. One thing
that can help with a high decked boat is to flood the cockpit to get the
boat lower in the water. I'm not fond of this technique, since it
requires more pumping out afterward, but it's preferable to not being
able to re-enter the boat.

--
Regards

Brian

wrote in news4amovkh986agtb3dksled3aa7idfdhnn4@
4ax.com:

On 12 Oct 2003 21:11:58 -0400, Mary Malmros wrote:


That sounds similar to, but more complicated than, a modification of
the paddle float self-rescue that uses a strap with a loop on it.
Not sure if the loop is attached to the paddle or the boat itself
somehow...I never used it myself.


Exactly what I thought.
http://www.seakayakermag.com/feb97/foster1.htm
http://www.rmskc.org/info/selfrescue.html

All of those links describe a paddlefloat rescue (though the original poster
never mentioned using a paddlefloat). It sounded to me that he was more
interested in using a stirrup of some kind to assist in a reentry.

There are a couple of methods that will work using just a piece of rope to
construct a stirrup. They can be helpful for someone without a lot of arm
strength.

The simplest method is to get a piece of rope and tie the ends together to
form a loop. Wrap the rope around the cockpit combing so that part of the
loop hangs over the side such that it's a couple of feet under water.
Adjust the length of the rope accordingly. The stirrup can be used to raise
your body up high enough so that you can get your weight onto the deck.

The alternative and probably more frequently used method involves a similar
loop from 12-15' of rope. After a capsize, a wet exit, emptying most of the
water from the cockpit, and righting the kayak, attach the paddle float to
the paddle blade. Then stick the paddle shaft through the loop of rope and
lay the paddle shaft just behind the cockpit. Toss the rope over to the
other side of the kayak and bring the remaining rope under the kayak. Wrap
the rope around the paddleshaft a couple of times and snug it down so there
is a couple of feet of loop remaining. Use the loop as a stirrup to get
your weight center over the boat.

Once of the tricks to using a rope stirrup is to just stick your toes onto
the rope. Then try to stand straight up until your upper body can flop onto
the deck.

Like all self rescues this is something that should be practiced a lot.
Under the kinds of conditions that would cause a capsize in the first place
a loop of rope is a potential entanglement hazard.

Peter Kuhn wrote in message ...
Try using a paddle float with a stirrup setup. Most sea kayaking
books will cover this type of re-entry.

Pete


TWall10618 wrote:

I'm a pretty big guy and I worry about needing to do a solo deep water remount.
Even though I have a fairly wide boat, (Loon 160 now, earlier a Coleman Scanoe
and Folbot Super), Any unassisted attempt to remount has always flipped my
boat. (I pracitced in my swimming pool this Summer). The only thing that worked
fairly well was to tie off a cheap, half inflated swim ring and use it as a
step up. It worked, but it was ungarceful and I don't know how well it would
work in waves.

If you are trying this solo in a closed kayak you might try getting
lessons , Some kind of co operative thing in your local kayak club may
help.
On first read I thought it was an open scanoe (Coleman ) type thing
and as my wife is much more skilled there I was not going at that . Re
entry in an open canoe is tricky, hard and painfull , it results in
bruises for the over 20 crowd.
If you must use a stirrup to re enter a kayak you should not be out
alone. That is the rude truth.
A standard paddle float re entry is a good option and sponsons may
help in your circomstance. There are people spitting now but these
things have a place. They are floats that strap to your boat after an
upset, you inflate them and now you have some extra width and boyancy
to the boat.A boat with the cockpit full of water will be instable and
hard to pump out. You will be pumping about 40 gallons of water out of
an unstable boat that you just fell out of for some reason. That can't
be good.
I have a bunch of rescues at my disposal. I have a good roll, paddle
float re entry is doable , It remains ugly and akward. Re Entry Roll,
and re entry roll with paddle float. I can sometimes get onto the back
deck and re enter without an aid.
I have no illusions. when alone if something takes me out of my boat,
the roll fails and conditions have deteriorated to the point that my
boat is not around my waist I am in trouble. That is compounded by the
fact that our water is very cold.
The advice is Be Carefull!!
Find an instructor, a good one and ask.
Local clubs like ours pull of rescue clinics the odd time. Cheap but
priceless.
Good paddling
Alex McGruer

On 19-Oct-2003, (Alex McGruer) wrote:

If you must use a stirrup to re enter a kayak you should not be out
alone. That is the rude truth.

I'd agree with that. In fact, they might consider another sport.

A standard paddle float re entry is a good option and sponsons may
help in your circomstance.

The problem with both these methods is that neither addresses the
problem of needing a stirrup. Both provide extra stability, but
the issue is that he can't get up onto the deck.

ISTR that someone already suggested learning to float on the surface
and slide onto the deck. If someone can't do this and needs a stirrup,
then they are in a more difficult situation. Personally, I consider
the stirrup a poor solution except in the case of an injured paddler
(i.e. it's a temporary solution to a problem, not a standard one)
or a disabled paddler who paddles under specific conditions (e.g. with
companions who are accustomed to aiding them with the stirrup).

Otherwise, if someone can't get onto the kayak without a stirrup they
are liability to themselves and to others. Need for a stirrup indicates
a greater problem with skill or fitness. Either learn to do it by
floating or realize that a kayak isn't for you.

Find an instructor, a good one and ask.
Local clubs like ours pull of rescue clinics the odd time. Cheap but
priceless.

This is the best idea. This will either identify the issues that lead
the OP to want a stirrup and get rid of them or make the paddler
realize that they shouldn't be paddling.

Mike

"Michael Daly" wrote in message . cable.rogers.com...
On 19-Oct-2003, (Alex McGruer) wrote:

If you must use a stirrup to re enter a kayak you should not be out
alone. That is the rude truth.

I'd agree with that. In fact, they might consider another sport.

A standard paddle float re entry is a good option and sponsons may
help in your circomstance.

The problem with both these methods is that neither addresses the
problem of needing a stirrup. Both provide extra stability, but
the issue is that he can't get up onto the deck.

ISTR that someone already suggested learning to float on the surface
and slide onto the deck. If someone can't do this and needs a stirrup,
then they are in a more difficult situation. Personally, I consider
the stirrup a poor solution except in the case of an injured paddler
(i.e. it's a temporary solution to a problem, not a standard one)
or a disabled paddler who paddles under specific conditions (e.g. with
companions who are accustomed to aiding them with the stirrup).

Otherwise, if someone can't get onto the kayak without a stirrup they
are liability to themselves and to others. Need for a stirrup indicates
a greater problem with skill or fitness. Either learn to do it by
floating or realize that a kayak isn't for you.

Find an instructor, a good one and ask.
Local clubs like ours pull of rescue clinics the odd time. Cheap but
priceless.

This is the best idea. This will either identify the issues that lead
the OP to want a stirrup and get rid of them or make the paddler
realize that they shouldn't be paddling.

Mike

Hi Mike:
I am the fool that will put anyone I can fit in the cockpit of a boat
out on the water. Once I am comfortable i can get them back into the
boat we may hit salt water.
You are absolutely right in all your observations.
I know one lady that dropper over 100 Lbs just to get in a kayak and
paddle: The benefit of that far outweighed the risks of pond
paddling and a scoot into the inland protected areas we can find in
most places .
I hate like hell sending people back to the bowling allys or bingo
halls.
I have used a stirrup affair in getting one person back into the boat.
The stirrup is stowed all the time in my paddle float.
I have the odd experience that is trully funny. Folks stradling the
back deck, crawling up and sinking the cockpit then we pump like mad.
CRCA has a sticker, Kayaking and Canoeing is for everyone. OK that is
a bit too optemistic but why not try.
If a person has not at least 2 good practiced solo re entries under
their belt , solo paddling or paddling without some type of guide may
not be too wise,.
I still think this may be for an open Canadian type canoe. If that is
the case the job just became close to impossible
Chow
Alex
But You are right Mike...realy.