On 13/06/2011 11:05 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 20:04:44 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 19:33:44 -0400, wrote:


That would encourage more long term investment.
I think I would but an extra tax on any financial instrument that was
kept less than a month to make flash trading less attractive.

let's get one thing straight

we dont need more INVESTMENT

we need more CONSUMPTION.

although investment is a form of consumption, ONLY MIDDLE CLASS
CONSUMPTION can pull us out of the depression

and wall street is NOT gonna let that happen

You can't get consumption without jobs and the only way we get that is
by expansion. It is clear the stimulus money just went into rich
people's pockets and not much actually got invested in expanded
industry. (thanks for a "no stimulus" stimulus bill)

Expansionary like Obama/Bernanke? Nope, that is inflation and fraud.
Real wealth and exconomic expansion occurs with wealth producing jobs.
More value added jobs, not the consumption kind.

You cannot create wealth with debt. You can steal it from our grand
children by saddling them with debt, but wealth has not been created and
thus unsustainable.

Wealth is mining some gold, growing some corn, producing something of
value that didn't exist before. A consumption job is a politician, a
jail or war. Bombing Libya does not create wealth, it consumes it.
Opening up a cotton mill and growing food is wealth.

Money is just like stock, if you double the money supply with debt, then
each stock is worth 1/2 as much as before. Printing and debt fraud
isn't going to work. It just makes the inevitable a worse than before.

Roman Empire fell for the same reasons. No one wanted to make sandles
or be a farmer, everyone wanted to be a top heavy statesmen, academic or
arts. When society became poorly productive, decay set in. At one
point, confiscating wealth to keep the empire ruse going. So Roman
Empire collapsed as producers were not getting enough and the
non-producers were getting too much.

Same problem exists today. Far too many on the consumption side and not
enough on the producting wealth side of the fence. This is causing the
economic breakdown as no value o the producers to continue losing welth
to a failing empire of government and consumption greed.
--
Government isn't the solution to the bad economy, it is the problem.

On 14/06/2011 10:02 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 09:01:51 -0400, wrote:

In ,
says...

In om,
says...

In ,
says...

On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 01:05:46 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 20:04:44 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 19:33:44 -0400, wrote:


That would encourage more long term investment.
I think I would but an extra tax on any financial instrument that was
kept less than a month to make flash trading less attractive.

let's get one thing straight

we dont need more INVESTMENT

we need more CONSUMPTION.

although investment is a form of consumption, ONLY MIDDLE CLASS
CONSUMPTION can pull us out of the depression

and wall street is NOT gonna let that happen

You can't get consumption without jobs and the only way we get that is
by expansion. It is clear the stimulus money just went into rich
people's pockets and not much actually got invested in expanded
industry. (thanks for a "no stimulus" stimulus bill)

There are plenty of stim projects underway, even if you don't believe
it or think they're working. They are working. We need more of them.

Name 10 of them.

LOL! It's a joke... I won't hold my breath.

http://stimuluswatch.org/index.php/project/by_state


When I look at the ones around here they are the same projects that we
would expect the government to kick in money into ... FROM OUR GAS
TAXES.
We are sending 38 cents a gallon off to DC and they dribble about half
of it back to us. That is not stimulus, it is government as usual.

Government consumes wealth. Lucky you are getting much back at all.
--
Government isn't the solution to the bad economy, it is the problem.

On 14/06/2011 3:57 AM, wf3h wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 01:05:46 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 20:04:44 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 19:33:44 -0400, wrote:


That would encourage more long term investment.
I think I would but an extra tax on any financial instrument that was
kept less than a month to make flash trading less attractive.

let's get one thing straight

we dont need more INVESTMENT

we need more CONSUMPTION.

although investment is a form of consumption, ONLY MIDDLE CLASS
CONSUMPTION can pull us out of the depression

and wall street is NOT gonna let that happen

You can't get consumption without jobs and the only way we get that is
by expansion. It is clear the stimulus money just went into rich
people's pockets and not much actually got invested in expanded
industry. (thanks for a "no stimulus" stimulus bill)

the only way we get expansion is with more money going to consumers,
NOT to the richest 1%. the american right wants ONLY increases in
capital for the already rich.

and the wall street excesses of the bush years amounted to a MASSIVE
transfer of wealth from the productive middle class to the non
productive capital gains class.

and the right wants to continue this. look at what the morons said in
last night's debate....eliminate capital gains taxes on the
wealthy...that's their ONLY economic program.

it's a failure

And Obama signed the checks.
--
Government isn't the solution to the bad economy, it is the problem.

On 14/06/2011 9:09 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 23:56:30 -0600,
wrote:

On 13/06/2011 5:33 PM, wrote:


I did hear one idea on capital gains that sounded interesting. Tie the
tax discount more closely to how long the investment was held.

They already do in the USA for cash accounts. 40k/IRA get the full hit
on withdrawal.

Explain the "cash account" thing?

I agree 401ks are a time bomb and I think we ain't seen nothin yet on
those taxes.



You wouldn't get the full tax break until it was held 5 years and make
it a higher percentage ending at the regular income rate at 1 or 2
years.

Fast way to scare off investment. In todays market, 5 years is not even
calculated. Too many changes coming for a commitment that long without
some guarantees no one will or can make.

A huge part of our problem is that businesses work in 90 day windows
while out competition in China looks at decades at a time.

For example, if you give me a 20 year tax rate guarantee for property
and income tax that I like, I would buy a Florida property tomorrow
morning. But with the debts out of control, I will hold off and decline
thank you. No sense in moving to the taxed poor districts of USA. And
Florida is one of the better places.


There is no income tax in Florida and we have SOH limits on property
taxes. That may actually be a bad thing because if we get a round of
massive inflation, the local communities may go broke. They were
certainly fat during the housing boom because the property taxes were
pegged to the sale prices and they were fantasy. The smart communities
like mine banked that excess money. although we did let the school
board get out of control ($20k per student kind of out of control)

Not really. Limiting government taxes is good. Can't keep raising
taxes into perpetuity or you quickly become state debt-tax slaves. What
is missing though is the removal of governments saddling debt into the
system. That is, funding the excess with a credit card. That bypasses
the intent of the limiting taxes and thus is fraud on the intent for
people to maintain some economic freedom.

The reality is, government is living beyond its means using debt fraud
to fund it.

Bottom line, they have to cut spending and start paying those debts. If
that means tossing some politicially sacred cows and union ass to the
pavement, start throwing. No reason why everybody has to suffer but for
government. Do the socialist thing, share the pain not just the gain.
--
Government isn't the solution to the bad economy, it is the problem.

On 14/06/2011 9:32 AM, I_am_Tosk wrote:
In ,
says...

On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 23:56:30 -0600,
wrote:

On 13/06/2011 5:33 PM, wrote:


I did hear one idea on capital gains that sounded interesting. Tie the
tax discount more closely to how long the investment was held.

They already do in the USA for cash accounts. 40k/IRA get the full hit
on withdrawal.

Explain the "cash account" thing?

I agree 401ks are a time bomb and I think we ain't seen nothin yet on
those taxes.



You wouldn't get the full tax break until it was held 5 years and make
it a higher percentage ending at the regular income rate at 1 or 2
years.

Fast way to scare off investment. In todays market, 5 years is not even
calculated. Too many changes coming for a commitment that long without
some guarantees no one will or can make.

A huge part of our problem is that businesses work in 90 day windows
while out competition in China looks at decades at a time.

For example, if you give me a 20 year tax rate guarantee for property
and income tax that I like, I would buy a Florida property tomorrow
morning. But with the debts out of control, I will hold off and decline
thank you. No sense in moving to the taxed poor districts of USA. And
Florida is one of the better places.


There is no income tax in Florida and we have SOH limits on property
taxes. That may actually be a bad thing because if we get a round of
massive inflation, the local communities may go broke. They were
certainly fat during the housing boom because the property taxes were
pegged to the sale prices and they were fantasy. The smart communities
like mine banked that excess money. although we did let the school
board get out of control ($20k per student kind of out of control)

I was wondering why the democrat pundit was pushing 401's as the
"safest" way to go right now... "FREE MONEY" he said, "from your
employer". I guess it makes sense now, then they can tax the crap out of
you and your employer...

As of last year I ceased contributing to tax deferred funds. As the
fleabaggers look with envy and greed at those fat juicy taxable 401K/IRA
(RRSP/LIRA for Canada).

The idea is I want my money liquid and free to move fast without tax
issues if the governments don't fix their fraud and misbehavior. Study
of why Roman Empire fell is a good read, just government greed and
corruption.

--
Government isn't the solution to the bad economy, it is the problem.

On 14/06/2011 11:14 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 08:21:23 -0400, wrote:

In ,
says...

On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 20:01:07 -0400, wrote:

In ,
says...

On Sun, 12 Jun 2011 17:22:54 -0600,
wrote:

On 11/06/2011 6:31 PM, wf3h wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jun 2011 11:40:36 -0600,
wrote:

meaningless.

and, of course, your method was tried

it was called the depression of 29

ever hear of it??

Actually, you dumbsh1t fleabaggers

says the right winger with a reader's digest view of economics


should read. In 1929 they tried to
spend out of it. In 1933 they realized after the 1932 crash that
fleabagger debt spend does not work. Took 6 years of restraint to cover
the debts and recovery was slow.

really?

uh...why did the depression end in 39?

did something happen in 39? uh yeah...the US started to spend for ww2

canuck's moronic view of economics is exceeded only by his ignorance
of history

It was something called lend lease that got the factories moving again.

So, money was spent by the US gov't. This stabilized the economy.
Thanks for the confirmation.

It was just like any other business deal. The corporations were told
that if they made and sold the items now they would get some money down
the road. This loaded up the companies billables and they could use that
to borrow against.

Which is exactly what happens when the gov't pumps money into the
economy for things like the STIM. Jobs are created and people pay
taxes. Same with the GM/Chrysler bailouts. All those people are still
employed and paying taxes.

The best bang for your buck (other than a war) are things like food
stamps. That money returns to the economy immediately, and is a net
positive, esp. in the short term.

Look up the fine print of lend lease. First, it was less than a
trillion dollars to end a decade long depression. Very, very cheap and
efficient compared to Obamanomics. And no government debt for it.

It was also precipitated by the ned for war munitions and goods for the
world. No such needs to that level are needed today. But could be why
Obama is war hungry. A bad mad debtor.

Third element, it didn't have a debt battered business base. Debt of
government, business and people were relatively low compared to today.
Some economists say the end of the depression may have occured anyways
and in fact had already started before WW II.

--
Government isn't the solution to the bad economy, it is the problem.

On 14/06/2011 12:33 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 01:02:05 -0400, wrote:


spend out of it. In 1933 they realized after the 1932 crash that
fleabagger debt spend does not work. Took 6 years of restraint to cover
the debts and recovery was slow.

really?

uh...why did the depression end in 39?

did something happen in 39? uh yeah...the US started to spend for ww2

canuck's moronic view of economics is exceeded only by his ignorance
of history

It was something called lend lease that got the factories moving again.

That was when the rest of the world was borrowing from us.

Bob, do you see the difference?


Greg, do you see that the US gov't was injecting money into the
economy? Do you see why it doesn't make much difference how it does it
and that via a war isn't exactly the best way to do that... unless you
don't mind killing a lot of people in the name of profit of course.

Never mind. You're hiding. I forgot.

Funny, the economy isn't seeing the money. It sits in a Saudi bank account.

--
Government isn't the solution to the bad economy, it is the problem.

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 11:50:19 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 07:14:57 -0400, Jay wrote:

On 6/14/2011 2:33 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 01:02:05 -0400, wrote:


spend out of it. In 1933 they realized after the 1932 crash that
fleabagger debt spend does not work. Took 6 years of restraint to cover
the debts and recovery was slow.

really?

uh...why did the depression end in 39?

did something happen in 39? uh yeah...the US started to spend for ww2

canuck's moronic view of economics is exceeded only by his ignorance
of history

It was something called lend lease that got the factories moving again.

That was when the rest of the world was borrowing from us.

Bob, do you see the difference?


Greg, do you see that the US gov't was injecting money into the
economy? Do you see why it doesn't make much difference how it does it
and that via a war isn't exactly the best way to do that... unless you
don't mind killing a lot of people in the name of profit of course.

Never mind. You're hiding. I forgot.

Greg isn't hiding.I see all of his posts. Check your filters.

I am just not engaging Plume. I got tired of every debate ending up in
an insult when she ran out of things to say

You got tired of have no facts. You started the insults, but you're
not going to admit it. Did I call you a moron or an asshole? Did I
claim you have a small ding dong? No. What was this terrible insult?
Oh, I think it was "you're delusional if you think...."

How terrible. You must have a very thin skin. I apologize.

That's very nice, if sincere.
If Greg bites there might be 2 intelligent people talking at once here.
When cannuck is one side that's impossible.

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 11:32:43 -0400, I_am_Tosk
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 23:56:30 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:

On 13/06/2011 5:33 PM, wrote:


I did hear one idea on capital gains that sounded interesting. Tie the
tax discount more closely to how long the investment was held.

They already do in the USA for cash accounts. 40k/IRA get the full hit
on withdrawal.

Explain the "cash account" thing?

I agree 401ks are a time bomb and I think we ain't seen nothin yet on
those taxes.



You wouldn't get the full tax break until it was held 5 years and make
it a higher percentage ending at the regular income rate at 1 or 2
years.

Fast way to scare off investment. In todays market, 5 years is not even
calculated. Too many changes coming for a commitment that long without
some guarantees no one will or can make.

A huge part of our problem is that businesses work in 90 day windows
while out competition in China looks at decades at a time.

For example, if you give me a 20 year tax rate guarantee for property
and income tax that I like, I would buy a Florida property tomorrow
morning. But with the debts out of control, I will hold off and decline
thank you. No sense in moving to the taxed poor districts of USA. And
Florida is one of the better places.


There is no income tax in Florida and we have SOH limits on property
taxes. That may actually be a bad thing because if we get a round of
massive inflation, the local communities may go broke. They were
certainly fat during the housing boom because the property taxes were
pegged to the sale prices and they were fantasy. The smart communities
like mine banked that excess money. although we did let the school
board get out of control ($20k per student kind of out of control)

I was wondering why the democrat pundit was pushing 401's as the
"safest" way to go right now... "FREE MONEY" he said, "from your
employer". I guess it makes sense now, then they can tax the crap out of
you and your employer...

The employer is not going to be taxed but I bet those people taking
their 401k money out in the future will get their ass kicked on it.

Right now a worker would be paying a very minimal tax on this money
but I bet those numbers will go up sharply as we try to dig our way
out of crushing debt.

That's the point... Get you to put as much of your savings into one
account (to be taxed later, big time) and get your company to match the
money going in... Then when they do hit you with taxes they get to tax
all of your savings, basically twice as they collect on what the company
put in too

--
Team Rowdy Mouse, Banned from the Mall for life!

In article ,
says...

On 14/06/2011 10:02 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 09:01:51 -0400, wrote:

In ,
says...

In om,
says...

In ,
says...

On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 01:05:46 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 20:04:44 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 19:33:44 -0400, wrote:


That would encourage more long term investment.
I think I would but an extra tax on any financial instrument that was
kept less than a month to make flash trading less attractive.

let's get one thing straight

we dont need more INVESTMENT

we need more CONSUMPTION.

although investment is a form of consumption, ONLY MIDDLE CLASS
CONSUMPTION can pull us out of the depression

and wall street is NOT gonna let that happen

You can't get consumption without jobs and the only way we get that is
by expansion. It is clear the stimulus money just went into rich
people's pockets and not much actually got invested in expanded
industry. (thanks for a "no stimulus" stimulus bill)

There are plenty of stim projects underway, even if you don't believe
it or think they're working. They are working. We need more of them.

Name 10 of them.

LOL! It's a joke... I won't hold my breath.

http://stimuluswatch.org/index.php/project/by_state


When I look at the ones around here they are the same projects that we
would expect the government to kick in money into ... FROM OUR GAS
TAXES.
We are sending 38 cents a gallon off to DC and they dribble about half
of it back to us. That is not stimulus, it is government as usual.

Government consumes wealth. Lucky you are getting much back at all.

Well, if you look at the figures, California (with it's 6 figure
lifeguards at the beach), Florida, New York, and wonder of wonders,
Illinois got the most porkulous money... snerk

--
Team Rowdy Mouse, Banned from the Mall for life!