On Wed, 04 May 2011 14:59:03 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 04 May 2011 11:00:28 -0700, wrote:

On Wed, 04 May 2011 13:42:49 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 04 May 2011 09:30:49 -0700, wrote:

On Wed, 04 May 2011 01:23:36 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 03 May 2011 20:53:41 -0700, wrote:

These guys didn't even do a cursory investigation into the weather or
just exactly what the nature of the desert was really like.
Your Wiki says they did not understand the sand moves and that it also
flies in the air. They took sea going helicopters with no defense
against airborne dirt into a sand storm. Guess what, The helicopters
failed ... duh!
That is a failure of planning.

Give the time-frame they were working under, it was the best they
could do. Of course,

You should watch the Charley Rose interview with Dennis Blair this
week (5/03/11) It starts about 30 minutes in,. I am sure it is on the
web site. He says pretty much what I said about Eagle Claw.

No agenda there... he was fired by Obama.

You didn't watch it did you.

I don't have the time to confirm or deny all of your wild references.
Are you denying that he screwed up and was fired?

So you are willing to speak from ignorance, OK

You're the one who appears to be selectively ignorant, since you won't
answer the question.


Blair was fired for reasons having nothing to do with his knowledge of
naval operations in the late 70s.

So, therefore, someone who's proven to be incompetent, should be
believed.


Carter was evil and/or incompetent,

Yes, in DC terms he was incompetent. He did not understand how things
worked and did not really accomplish much.

even though
he got more done legislatively than just about any other president.

Huh? More than LBJ? More than Nixon? FDR?
You are going to have to explain that one.
Even Carter says his main achievement was Camp David

Huh... read up.... http://www.achievement.org/autodoc/page/car0bio-1


You must not have even read the article you cited. I saw no
significant legislative things there.
They talk a lot about the foreign policy things, mostly Camp David,
that I pointed out, Salt II and giving away the Panama canal.
That is nothing compared to FDR, LBJ or Nixon's LEGISLATIVE
accomplishments and that is what you were talking about.

Try again. This time read slower.

I did. Now enlighten us and quote the part I missed in that article.
Are you referring to the nebulous comments about reorganizing some
federal departments? That is executive, not legislative and was really
just changing some signs.

Enlighten yourself. You appear to need it.



Perhaps there was the fear that loading more capable helicopters on a
carrier would attract attention but FDR managed to train crews and put
B-25s on the Hornet without a leak. Much like Mogadishu, the right
assets should have been in theater before you try things like this or
you can't deal with adversity.

I bet the sky over Aghanistan was black with orbiting planes and
choppers full of guys, in case this thing blew up.

I'll bet that if you look at the timeline, there was a lot more time
available for the current vs. the previous.

Then maybe they shouldn't have done it and Carter was the one who said
GO.

So, you believe he was told that it wouldn't work but he said go
anyway? Keep trying, but you're not even close.

Where does the buck stop?

You didn't answer the question. What a shocker.

I believe he approved a flawed plan, in a hurry without doing due
diligence and it was a horrible debacle. Carter was involved in all of
the decision making and most of the planning. Maybe you should do some
reading, beyond a single Wiki post.

So, you're claiming that Carter selected the helicopter models? Did he
also select the ammo?


It was widely reported that Carter was involved in all of the decision
making, to the point of being disruptive. Carter's micro managing was
so pervasive and so public that it made it to Saturday Night Live.

Total nonsense. Carter didn't pick the helicopters or the crew. You
know it, I know it, the world knows it.


Feel free to claim Clinton was at fault, but Reagan did just fine in
Lebanon.

Lebanon was a suicide bomber crashing into a hotel, not exactly the
same as an attack in Iran is it?

False equivalency

And, Reagan in all his glory, cut and ran. What a hero!

There was nothing to be gained there, just like Somalia a few years
later. Sometimes cutting your losses and getting the hell out is the
smart thing to do.

So, he cut and ran. Of course, when Clinton finally left after GHWB
started it, all the right wingers claimed it was because it was
because of Lewinski. That was ok with you... lying and misleading the
American people is typical for right-wingers.

GHWB did not authorize that mission. He was long gone. Again you want
to blame a Bush for a democratic failure.

So, I guess this is just all made up then?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgCeFXeuE4U

Get your facts straight. Clinton tried to fix Bush I's mess.

Bush planned on getting the troops out by the time he left the white
house (Connie Chung said so). Why did Clinton keep them there? Why did
he expand the mission?

Oh, he _planned_ on doing it, but didn't, therefore, he did nothing
wrong. I get it.


At least you should listen to the You Tube videos you cite but you
don't seem to read the articles either so I am not surprised.

Was Bush wrong going into Somalia? Yes he was but like Obama in
Afghanistan, Clinton compounded the mistake.


Clinton did no such thing. Despite the nonsense, Bush started it, much
like the other Bush started in Iraq. Of course, that's all Obama's
fault, even Somalia.