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It's snerk time in Florida...again.
On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 13:37:49 -0400, I_am_Tosk
wrote: In article , says... On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 12:19:45 -0400, I_am_Tosk wrote: In article , says... On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 10:27:15 -0400, I_am_Tosk wrote: In article , says... In article , says... On Thu, 17 Mar 2011 22:23:32 -0400, wrote: He is right about merit pay for teachers too so that is 2 things in a couple months. If a politician gets one big thing right a month I will be happy with them. What does he say about merit pay? Seems like a good idea to me. http://www2.jcfloridan.com/news/2011...ion-merit-pay- bill-mixed-ar-1594330/ "Fifty percent of a teacher's evaluation will depend on how much progress their students have made on the Florida Comprehensive Assessment Test or other exams over a three-year period." What this means is good teachers at low-income student schools will get screwed on pay. So the low-income student schools will end up with the poorest teachers. Real smart. I just saw a tivo of 60 minutes...$125K for charter school teachers. Apparently, it hasn't made a difference in kids' performance, at least not so far. Success of students to achieve their potential depends mostly on their parents. Initially charter schools get good performance because guess what? Involved parents are required to get kids in charter schools. Most have a waiting list for admission. Who is most responsible for getting the kids on the list? Involved parents. That's what gets successful education for kids. This whole deal about charter schools is pretty much misguided except it can allow some kids to get into a better environment for learning. That's good. Doesn't help those whose parents don't get them into a charter school. And way too many won't make that effort. It mostly comes down to parents, not teachers or schools. So much bull****... A good teacher can teach your kids in that 6 hours a day, not count on the parents to do the work for the other 18... I am sick and tired of folks trying to blame the Parents while they are at work all day and the teachers have the kids right there a captive audience. That is not really true. Good parents will help kids with homework and create a better learning experience at home. If a kid lives in a crack house with a bunch of drop outs and criminals, he is far more likely to be a crackhead, criminal, drop out. More likely I give you that, but a good teacher could reach out and let that kid get the most out of that 6 hours a day they have him or her... I just don't think this should be on the parents. If the schools spent more time teaching the basics instead of some of the crap they do, the kids could come out and learn. Now you're not talking 'teacher', you're talking 'school board' - the folks that develop the curriculum. Make the kids write, with pencil and paper, make them read, right there in class, out loud, like we did when we were kids, we learned. Or at least a lot of us did...;) I saw a news story on the text of one chapter taught in the NYC school system. It was a whole chapter on police brutality and corruption. Yeah, have a lesson on it, but a whole chapter, a whole month of the short school year? Again, you're talking curriculum, not what the teacher does. That is a waste and does nothing but create a divide between these kids and law and order. It certainly doesn't do anything to prepare them to come out to "normal" society outside of the ghetto or in collage that's for sure... Teach the kids, don't indoctrinate them and we will be just fine... You just need to figure out who you're putting down. Obviously, you should be writing to your local school board and attending some of their meetings. Why, my school system isn't at risk.. The teachers here are happy and well paid, and they really do teach the kids. I am talking about the failing schools particularly in the inner cities.. What do you expect when you've got a bunch of liberals and unions running the system? Their goal is to spend six hours a day showing fifth-graders how to put rubbers on cucumbers. |
It's snerk time in Florida...again.
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It's snerk time in Florida...again.
On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 14:56:22 -0400, Ernie wrote:
On 3/18/2011 2:39 PM, Harryk wrote: wrote: On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 12:06:53 -0400, wrote: I saw that show and it is significant that these were "at risk" kids. I believe it will take time to turn them around. I do believe that teachers should be paid by their performance and not just time in grade, particularly since you can't really get rid of a bad teacher. One problem is that "performance" is too closely linked to the results of "standardized testing," and all those tests really test is whether the kids memorized those parts of their lessons that appear on the tests. The test results do not tell you if the kids are learning anything significant or, just as important, how to think. You better get used to standardized tests. That is the way the world judges people. You can do much of anything these days without passing a test. If the test is well written, "memorizing the answer" is actually learning the material since no 2 kids will get exactly the same test. We are moving to computer generated testing where there is a huge pool of questions and they randomize the tests. The tests do nothing or little to show whether a kid can think. Regurgitating canned information is not thinking. What a small mind you have. Problems can be presented on tests that require thinking to arrive at a correct answer. You must remember that Harry scored 1600 on his SAT, and he did so without thinking. Now, you should take back what you said about his mind. |
It's snerk time in Florida...again.
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It's snerk time in Florida...again.
|
It's snerk time in Florida...again.
|
It's snerk time in Florida...again.
On 3/18/2011 3:12 PM, John H wrote:
On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 14:56:22 -0400, wrote: On 3/18/2011 2:39 PM, Harryk wrote: wrote: On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 12:06:53 -0400, wrote: I saw that show and it is significant that these were "at risk" kids. I believe it will take time to turn them around. I do believe that teachers should be paid by their performance and not just time in grade, particularly since you can't really get rid of a bad teacher. One problem is that "performance" is too closely linked to the results of "standardized testing," and all those tests really test is whether the kids memorized those parts of their lessons that appear on the tests. The test results do not tell you if the kids are learning anything significant or, just as important, how to think. You better get used to standardized tests. That is the way the world judges people. You can do much of anything these days without passing a test. If the test is well written, "memorizing the answer" is actually learning the material since no 2 kids will get exactly the same test. We are moving to computer generated testing where there is a huge pool of questions and they randomize the tests. The tests do nothing or little to show whether a kid can think. Regurgitating canned information is not thinking. What a small mind you have. Problems can be presented on tests that require thinking to arrive at a correct answer. You must remember that Harry scored 1600 on his SAT, and he did so without thinking. Now, you should take back what you said about his mind. What mind? Oh, you must be talking about the cesspool atop his shoulders. |
It's snerk time in Florida...again.
wrote:
On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 13:18:38 -0700, wrote: On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 14:35:46 -0400, wrote: On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 12:06:53 -0400, wrote: I saw that show and it is significant that these were "at risk" kids. I believe it will take time to turn them around. I do believe that teachers should be paid by their performance and not just time in grade, particularly since you can't really get rid of a bad teacher. One problem is that "performance" is too closely linked to the results of "standardized testing," and all those tests really test is whether the kids memorized those parts of their lessons that appear on the tests. The test results do not tell you if the kids are learning anything significant or, just as important, how to think. You better get used to standardized tests. That is the way the world judges people. You can do much of anything these days without passing a test. If the test is well written, "memorizing the answer" is actually learning the material since no 2 kids will get exactly the same test. We are moving to computer generated testing where there is a huge pool of questions and they randomize the tests. Learning how to think critically is the most important type of education. If that can be demonstrated in a standardized test, then I'm all for it. I don't think it can very easily. Of course, you understand that critical thinking requires a broad liberal arts education... :) Most K-12 is still learning basic concepts and memorizing things. You don't "think" about why 6x12=72, or what the formula for the area of a circle is, you just remember it. Maybe in your school system it was that way. It sure as hell was not that way when I was in K-12. Sure, we learned the basics and there was memorization, but there was a lot more in terms of teaching us how to think. I don't know why, but my favorite math course in high school was the year of geometry, followed by calculus. I didn't like the two years of algebra all that much, though I did OK in it. I still remember some of every class in high school: Four years of English Four years of math: algebra, geometry, algebra II and calculus Four years of science: biology, chemistry, physics and physics II Four years of foreign languages: four years of Latin Four years of history: ancient, medieval, european and U.S. And for my electives: two years of music/chorus and two years of Russian. I remember many of my teachers, too. Most of them were absolutely first-rate, and three of them had doctorates. My third year history teacher had a doctorate, and he later became principal teacher. The teacher I best remember, though, taught English. She not only pushed me into writing, she sneaked some of her students into a local jazz club several times a year where her really famous musician husband performed. |
It's snerk time in Florida...again.
On Sat, 19 Mar 2011 12:35:22 -0400, wrote:
On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 13:18:38 -0700, wrote: On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 14:35:46 -0400, wrote: On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 12:06:53 -0400, Harryk wrote: I saw that show and it is significant that these were "at risk" kids. I believe it will take time to turn them around. I do believe that teachers should be paid by their performance and not just time in grade, particularly since you can't really get rid of a bad teacher. One problem is that "performance" is too closely linked to the results of "standardized testing," and all those tests really test is whether the kids memorized those parts of their lessons that appear on the tests. The test results do not tell you if the kids are learning anything significant or, just as important, how to think. You better get used to standardized tests. That is the way the world judges people. You can do much of anything these days without passing a test. If the test is well written, "memorizing the answer" is actually learning the material since no 2 kids will get exactly the same test. We are moving to computer generated testing where there is a huge pool of questions and they randomize the tests. Learning how to think critically is the most important type of education. If that can be demonstrated in a standardized test, then I'm all for it. I don't think it can very easily. Of course, you understand that critical thinking requires a broad liberal arts education... :) Most K-12 is still learning basic concepts and memorizing things. You don't "think" about why 6x12=72, or what the formula for the area of a circle is, you just remember it. It's about learning basics and it's about learning how to function in society. The latter isn't something you can memorize and it's learned early or not at all. |
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