Wow, very nice.

I want to be on that trawler in the first picture.

Me too. And as soon as the busted engine
deal gets sorted out, I will be again! :-)

That's yours?! Geez, I got all mixed up as to who owns what.

Oh man, that is a sweet ride. What is it?

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Wow, very nice.

I want to be on that trawler in the first picture.

Me too. And as soon as the busted engine
deal gets sorted out, I will be again! :-)

That's yours?! Geez, I got all mixed up as to who owns what.

Oh man, that is a sweet ride. What is it?

36' 1983 Sundowner Tug. Built in Taiwan.
Single diesel (past tense). 8.5 kt cruise, about 2 gph. We think it's almost
perfect for the Pacific NW waters- but ask 100 people to describe the "perfect"
boat and you'll get at least 90 different answers. :-)

On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:42:13 GMT, "Paul" wrote:

Wow, very nice.

I want to be on that trawler in the first picture.
=======================================

Uhhh, I have it on good authority that the engine needs major work...

All kidding aside, nice pictures Chuck. Thanks for sharing.

On 02 Oct 2003 16:46:21 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

ask 100 people to describe the "perfect"
boat and you'll get at least 90 different answers. :-)

=========================================

Oh no, the really honest and experienced people will give you way more
than one answer. As I once again patiently explain to Mrs B, that you
really can't have too many boats...

Anytime I can help Really nice pix too. I plan to post a few more on
the St. Johns before doing a trip through the Intracoastal down to St.
Augustine and the ancient city there.
I will have to take the pix down size a bunch more as earthlink is
bitching about excess server space. (Welllllll everything together IS a
total of 7 meg and they only allow me 5.)

Capt Frank

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~aartworks

Gould 0738 wrote:
Wow!

Super nice job, Capt. Frank!

Most sincere thanks. :-)

Well then ... I will try not to assault you with a bazillion questions but
.... well I'm lying, here are a bazillion questions:

I think I do remember you talking about your diesel, you're replacing that
right? I think you said you thought it had been underpowered from the
beginning -- I might be wrong, sorry for my crappy memory. How many hours
did you have on it. I notice that it "only" gave you 20 years of service.

You said it's "almost" perfect. What would make it perfect? For you I mean
and I don't mean little stuff that might be broken, I mean what you do look
at and continually say "I wish ..."?

What is the difference between a tug and a trawler? I know the visual
difference between the actual working boats (the 18" rub rail on the tug
being a dead giveaway), but I have to admit that your tug looks like a
trawler to my inexperienced eye.

8.5kt so then it's a true displacement hull, not a "semi". As an experienced
boater what would be the limit of your exursions? I mean, at what point
would you say, "that I will not do"?

Single engine, my fear of fears. Do you have a wing engine? How do you deal
with that, or does it even bother you?

Again with the single engine but not on the redundancy side, what about
maneurverabilty? Bow thruster? That's a big ol' boat to be tucking into a
tight slip and I imagine a big keel on it. Love to hear your thoughts on
that.

And this is no question but as you know we bought our first boat this
summer. It's a planing hull, 30' long and a bunch of fun but we have quickly
learned that while plane and WOT is fun, we are a definitely a 10kt couple.
We love to piddle along. While our next boat (the ever-present next boat)
may be a planing hull for reasons I won't bore you with yet, we are without
question headed for a full displacement trawler. It may be a decade before
we get there but I would love to hear your input on the matter if you have
the time.


"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
That's yours?! Geez, I got all mixed up as to who owns what.

Oh man, that is a sweet ride. What is it?

36' 1983 Sundowner Tug. Built in Taiwan.
Single diesel (past tense). 8.5 kt cruise, about 2 gph. We think it's
almost
perfect for the Pacific NW waters- but ask 100 people to describe the
"perfect"
boat and you'll get at least 90 different answers. :-)

I think I do remember you talking about your diesel, you're replacing that
right? I think you said you thought it had been underpowered from the
beginning -- I might be wrong, sorry for my crappy memory.

No, the boat has not been underpowered from the start. Since the engine
presently develops ZERO horsepower, one could say it is underpowered now.
Putting a lot more horses on the wheel would just dig a bigger hole under the
stern. 165HP is plenty for a boat like this- if you doubled the HP you'd pick
up maybe a knot and a half.

How many hours
did you have on it. I notice that it "only" gave you 20 years of service.

Just a bit over 3900. Bad luck took this engine out a few thousand hours early.
Bummer!



You said it's "almost" perfect. What would make it perfect? For you I mean
and I don't mean little stuff that might be broken, I mean what you do look
at and continually say "I wish ..."?

Little things. I don't care for the deck scuppers. Wife would rather have a
centerline bunk...(she claims I pin her against the wall). A little more weight
in the bow. An aft head. Nothing ultra serious. A boat is like a woman, as much
as you love her, there are always a few minor things you'd change if you
could....(and vice versa I know for a fact).

What is the difference between a tug and a trawler? I know the visual
difference between the actual working boats (the 18" rub rail on the tug
being a dead giveaway), but I have to admit that your tug looks like a
trawler to my inexperienced eye.

It's a matter of styling. The hull form is pretty well identical between a tug
and a trawler. Trawlers *usually* have a flying bridge, and tugs *usually* do
not. List exceptions here....... ........... ......... .........
........... ............ etc. Tugs typically have a false stack as a styling
element. (Mine doubles as a propane locker). A tug will have strong design
emphasis on the interior helm, and often a dedicated pilothouse. Many trawlers
give very short shrift to the interior helm (or leave it off entirely) and put
all the eggs in the flybridge basket. The primary helm is usually the lower
helm on a tug with a flybridge....less likely to be true on most trawlers.

8.5kt so then it's a true displacement hull, not a "semi"

No, it's a semi. It runs at displacement speeds, but it lacks several design
elements required to qualify it as a full displacement vessel. It has squared
off chines....big give away. It does not have an elevated or rounded transom.
It does have a nifty keel, and a big rudder protected by a skeg like a proper
displacement hull. Most, but not all "trawlers" are semi displacement. For
example: Grand Banks is a semi displacement hull, while Willard is a full
displacement design. Look carefully at those two boats and the difference will
be rather apparent.

As an experienced
boater what would be the limit of your exursions? I mean, at what point
would you say, "that I will not do"?

My boat is adequate for coastal cruising in
reasonable weather. Suits me fine, since I don't have the time for
passagemaking and I have too much respect for the forces of nature to waggle
my middle finger at seriously snotty conditions. On the occassions when we have
been caught out
in bad weather or I have underestimated the sea state and left port anyway, the
boat has always served us very well. I literally trust this boat with my life,
but I don't press the envelope, either.

Single engine, my fear of fears. Do you have a wing engine? How do you deal
with that, or does it even bother you?

We've been towed in three times. Once when my stupid instructions to my wife
(who followed them to the best of her ability) resulted in a severed torque
shear on the shaft. (Towed by a sailboat -shame of shames- into Friday Harbor).
Once when the tranny gave out and we coasted into the fuel dock.....(had to get
from the fuel dock to our slip). And then once again a couple of weeks ago when
the BIG ONE befell my poor Perkins. It would be accurate to say that we have
been towed in well under 1% of the times we have been underway in the boat. I
don't think it would be realistic to expect better reliability from twins,
despite the higher fuel and maintenance costs.



Again with the single engine but not on the redundancy side, what about
maneurverabilty? Bow thruster?

Bow thruster, shmuster. :-) With a big old rudder, the boat comes with a built
in stern thruster. You learn what the boat does in reverse. Mine backs to
starboard, so if I can I try to dock on the starboard side.
Put the bow up near the dock at a proper angle, and then take off way with a
touch of reverse......pulls the stern right over to the dock easy as can be.
Getting away from the dock is just the reverse- you get the stern out first and
back away until you have room enough to swing the stern and power forward. You
learn to steer with the stern, like the old timers. :-)

It's even possible to steer in reverse. I usually set wheel hard to port so the
rudder offsets the prop walk. Then it becomes a balancing act between the prop
and the rudder. If the boat is following the rudder too much, I raise the RPM
to increase the prop walk. If it's following the prop walk too much and not the
rudder, I throttle back or even come out of gear so that the force exerted by
the rudder exceeds the force exerted by the prop.

I routinely turn that 36 foot boat, plus swim step, 180 degrees at the end of a
fairway about 60 feet wide every time we come in to our marina. Our dock is
just under the promenade atop the bulkhead, and unless its well after dark or
raining heavily, there is typically an audience when we dock.
It's fun to hear the comments. "Look how well that boat spins around! He must
have two engines!" "Naw, I think that's a single- he has to have a bow thruster
to do that!"
I just smile. The secret is momentum. Once I get the boat turning I let it
momentum carry it through the turn without powering forward. Most of the time,
we finish the turn with the hull lined up exactly with the face of the float.
That's "most" of the time.......sometimes I manage to look like I've never
docked a boat in my life. :-)

When it's windy or there's a strong current running, you do have to think your
way to the dock. What direction shall I approach from? Will the wind/current
slam me against the dock all night or set me off a foot or so? If I'm only
stoping for lunch, etc.......will I be able to get *off* the dock if the wind
or current continues or gets worse? I frankly enjoy that process. Yeah, if I
had a couple of monster twins I could just forget about working within nature's
rulebook and bullhead on through.....but that wouldn't be as much fun.

Well thanks for taking the time to reply, especially in such detail.

Next next boat trawler!




"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
I think I do remember you talking about your diesel, you're replacing
that
right? I think you said you thought it had been underpowered from the
beginning -- I might be wrong, sorry for my crappy memory.

No, the boat has not been underpowered from the start. Since the engine
presently develops ZERO horsepower, one could say it is underpowered now.
Putting a lot more horses on the wheel would just dig a bigger hole under
the
stern. 165HP is plenty for a boat like this- if you doubled the HP you'd
pick
up maybe a knot and a half.

How many hours
did you have on it. I notice that it "only" gave you 20 years of service.

Just a bit over 3900. Bad luck took this engine out a few thousand hours
early.
Bummer!



You said it's "almost" perfect. What would make it perfect? For you I
mean
and I don't mean little stuff that might be broken, I mean what you do
look
at and continually say "I wish ..."?

Little things. I don't care for the deck scuppers. Wife would rather have
a
centerline bunk...(she claims I pin her against the wall). A little more
weight
in the bow. An aft head. Nothing ultra serious. A boat is like a woman, as
much
as you love her, there are always a few minor things you'd change if you
could....(and vice versa I know for a fact).

What is the difference between a tug and a trawler? I know the visual
difference between the actual working boats (the 18" rub rail on the tug
being a dead giveaway), but I have to admit that your tug looks like a
trawler to my inexperienced eye.

It's a matter of styling. The hull form is pretty well identical between a
tug
and a trawler. Trawlers *usually* have a flying bridge, and tugs *usually*
do
not. List exceptions here....... ........... ......... .........
.......... ............ etc. Tugs typically have a false stack as a
styling
element. (Mine doubles as a propane locker). A tug will have strong design
emphasis on the interior helm, and often a dedicated pilothouse. Many
trawlers
give very short shrift to the interior helm (or leave it off entirely) and
put
all the eggs in the flybridge basket. The primary helm is usually the
lower
helm on a tug with a flybridge....less likely to be true on most trawlers.

8.5kt so then it's a true displacement hull, not a "semi"

No, it's a semi. It runs at displacement speeds, but it lacks several
design
elements required to qualify it as a full displacement vessel. It has
squared
off chines....big give away. It does not have an elevated or rounded
transom.
It does have a nifty keel, and a big rudder protected by a skeg like a
proper
displacement hull. Most, but not all "trawlers" are semi displacement. For
example: Grand Banks is a semi displacement hull, while Willard is a full
displacement design. Look carefully at those two boats and the difference
will
be rather apparent.

As an experienced
boater what would be the limit of your exursions? I mean, at what point
would you say, "that I will not do"?

My boat is adequate for coastal cruising in
reasonable weather. Suits me fine, since I don't have the time for
passagemaking and I have too much respect for the forces of nature to
waggle
my middle finger at seriously snotty conditions. On the occassions when we
have
been caught out
in bad weather or I have underestimated the sea state and left port
anyway, the
boat has always served us very well. I literally trust this boat with my
life,
but I don't press the envelope, either.

Single engine, my fear of fears. Do you have a wing engine? How do you
deal
with that, or does it even bother you?

We've been towed in three times. Once when my stupid instructions to my
wife
(who followed them to the best of her ability) resulted in a severed
torque
shear on the shaft. (Towed by a sailboat -shame of shames- into Friday
Harbor).
Once when the tranny gave out and we coasted into the fuel dock.....(had
to get
from the fuel dock to our slip). And then once again a couple of weeks ago
when
the BIG ONE befell my poor Perkins. It would be accurate to say that we
have
been towed in well under 1% of the times we have been underway in the
boat. I
don't think it would be realistic to expect better reliability from twins,
despite the higher fuel and maintenance costs.



Again with the single engine but not on the redundancy side, what about
maneurverabilty? Bow thruster?

Bow thruster, shmuster. :-) With a big old rudder, the boat comes with a
built
in stern thruster. You learn what the boat does in reverse. Mine backs to
starboard, so if I can I try to dock on the starboard side.
Put the bow up near the dock at a proper angle, and then take off way with
a
touch of reverse......pulls the stern right over to the dock easy as can
be.
Getting away from the dock is just the reverse- you get the stern out
first and
back away until you have room enough to swing the stern and power forward.
You
learn to steer with the stern, like the old timers. :-)

It's even possible to steer in reverse. I usually set wheel hard to port
so the
rudder offsets the prop walk. Then it becomes a balancing act between the
prop
and the rudder. If the boat is following the rudder too much, I raise the
RPM
to increase the prop walk. If it's following the prop walk too much and
not the
rudder, I throttle back or even come out of gear so that the force exerted
by
the rudder exceeds the force exerted by the prop.

I routinely turn that 36 foot boat, plus swim step, 180 degrees at the end
of a
fairway about 60 feet wide every time we come in to our marina. Our dock
is
just under the promenade atop the bulkhead, and unless its well after dark
or
raining heavily, there is typically an audience when we dock.
It's fun to hear the comments. "Look how well that boat spins around! He
must
have two engines!" "Naw, I think that's a single- he has to have a bow
thruster
to do that!"
I just smile. The secret is momentum. Once I get the boat turning I let it
momentum carry it through the turn without powering forward. Most of the
time,
we finish the turn with the hull lined up exactly with the face of the
float.
That's "most" of the time.......sometimes I manage to look like I've never
docked a boat in my life. :-)

When it's windy or there's a strong current running, you do have to think
your
way to the dock. What direction shall I approach from? Will the
wind/current
slam me against the dock all night or set me off a foot or so? If I'm only
stoping for lunch, etc.......will I be able to get *off* the dock if the
wind
or current continues or gets worse? I frankly enjoy that process. Yeah,
if I
had a couple of monster twins I could just forget about working within
nature's
rulebook and bullhead on through.....but that wouldn't be as much fun.