On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 06:30:35 -0500, Harryk
wrote:

Doing nothing is better than doing the wrong thing. Ethanol still has
not proved it's value.


There are other agricultural alternatives to corn ethanol. If we come up
with something, I'd like it owned by the people instead of by big,
multi-national corporations. We need to move away from "corporate uber
alles."

You should buy some stock in some of those big, multi-national
corporations. It turns out that they are all owned by the people,
people just like us.

On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 02:00:06 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 01 Feb 2011 22:00:40 -0800, jps wrote:

On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 00:31:01 -0500, wrote:


Without the farm subsidies ethanol would be very expensive.


Right, let's do...nothing.

Doing nothing is better than doing the wrong thing. Ethanol still has
not proved it's value.

Ethanol is a ruse. We should be investing in switchgrass or algae
production and refinement.


Why not CNG, it is cheap, clean and we have plenty of it?

It obviously doesn't buy Democrat votes. If it did, Obama would have mentioned
it in his speech.

On 2/2/11 8:06 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 06:30:35 -0500,
wrote:

Doing nothing is better than doing the wrong thing. Ethanol still has
not proved it's value.


There are other agricultural alternatives to corn ethanol. If we come up
with something, I'd like it owned by the people instead of by big,
multi-national corporations. We need to move away from "corporate uber
alles."

You should buy some stock in some of those big, multi-national
corporations. It turns out that they are all owned by the people,
people just like us.



Right...small individual shareholders have the ability to control big,
multi-national corporations, and Hollywood starlets call me all the time
for dates.

Big, multi-national corporations...that's why everything is working out
so well. I prefer public ownership of the public's resources, the
public's highways, the public's schools, the public's hospitals, the
public's airports. et cetera.

When "the system" favors only the rich, when the middle and lower income
classes are regressing, when able-bodied, willing workers cannot find
decent, family supporting jobs, all because of the greed at the top,
it's time for serious, heavy duty change.

On 2/2/11 8:18 AM, John H wrote:
On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 02:00:06 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 01 Feb 2011 22:00:40 -0800, wrote:

On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 00:31:01 -0500, wrote:


Without the farm subsidies ethanol would be very expensive.


Right, let's do...nothing.

Doing nothing is better than doing the wrong thing. Ethanol still has
not proved it's value.

Ethanol is a ruse. We should be investing in switchgrass or algae
production and refinement.


Why not CNG, it is cheap, clean and we have plenty of it?

It obviously doesn't buy Democrat votes. If it did, Obama would have mentioned
it in his speech.


You're ever the moron, eh, Herring?

On 2/2/11 12:05 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 06:30:35 -0500,
wrote:

On 2/2/11 12:31 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 01 Feb 2011 16:09:43 -0500,
wrote:

On 2/1/11 3:58 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 01 Feb 2011 12:17:11 -0500,
wrote:



Read up on cellulosic ethanol,

Unfortunately virtually all of the ethanol made here comes from corn.


That doesn't mean we're going to be forever stupid.

Without the farm subsidies ethanol would be very expensive.


Right, let's do...nothing.

Doing nothing is better than doing the wrong thing. Ethanol still has
not proved it's value.


There are other agricultural alternatives to corn ethanol. If we come up
with something, I'd like it owned by the people instead of by big,
multi-national corporations. We need to move away from "corporate uber
alles."

Who do you think controls most of the farming? You are just trading
Exxon for ADM but you can bet your ass Exxon would still be right in
the middle of it.

It doesn't have to be that way. We don't have to be under the thumb of
huge corporations. I've stated several times that we need a major
restructuring in this country, one that "rebalances" our economy so that
it works for middle and lower income workers and families. I don't know
whether that rebalancing will come about peacefully.

In a future political climate it may be possibly to restrict the
development and sale of alternative energy sources to small corporations
or not-for-profit entities.

In our lives here, we're not particularly restricted by governmental
rules and regulations. The impact of large corporations is a negative in
almost everything, and large corporations have their thumbs on almost
everything.

We've got to get rid of "corporate uber alles," or this won't be a
country worth living in.

On 2/2/11 1:04 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 12:31:32 -0500,
wrote:

There are other agricultural alternatives to corn ethanol. If we come up
with something, I'd like it owned by the people instead of by big,
multi-national corporations. We need to move away from "corporate uber
alles."

Who do you think controls most of the farming? You are just trading
Exxon for ADM but you can bet your ass Exxon would still be right in
the middle of it.

It doesn't have to be that way. We don't have to be under the thumb of
huge corporations. I've stated several times that we need a major
restructuring in this country, one that "rebalances" our economy so that
it works for middle and lower income workers and families. I don't know
whether that rebalancing will come about peacefully.

In a future political climate it may be possibly to restrict the
development and sale of alternative energy sources to small corporations
or not-for-profit entities.

In our lives here, we're not particularly restricted by governmental
rules and regulations. The impact of large corporations is a negative in
almost everything, and large corporations have their thumbs on almost
everything.

We've got to get rid of "corporate uber alles," or this won't be a
country worth living in.


As long as people still go to WalMart and let their local stores die,
you will not change the model. It is not WalMart per se but just the
mentality that a lower price trumps all else. You can say all you want
about the evils of corporate America but it is pretty much undisputed
that they bring us "Market driven quality" at a lower price than mom
and pop could ever do. Both are cheaper than if the government does it
although most of the government price is hidden in taxes so they can
make things look like they are free.

BTW I watched two interesting movies on the NetFlix streamer last
night
WalMart, the high cost of a low price and Maxed Out.





Since the 1980s, it seems, the so-called "free market" has not been
serving us with its credo of no real taxes on the wealthy, no real
regulation, no real government.

"Market driven quality" is no quality at all.

On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 11:58:25 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 01 Feb 2011 23:49:28 -0800, jps wrote:

On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 02:00:06 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 01 Feb 2011 22:00:40 -0800, jps wrote:

On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 00:31:01 -0500, wrote:


Without the farm subsidies ethanol would be very expensive.


Right, let's do...nothing.

Doing nothing is better than doing the wrong thing. Ethanol still has
not proved it's value.

Ethanol is a ruse. We should be investing in switchgrass or algae
production and refinement.


Why not CNG, it is cheap, clean and we have plenty of it?

Why not invest in something we can grow instead of ripping apart the
earth's crust while spoiling the water table with toxins and dangerous
gases?

Because we are going to run out of water long before we run out of
oil.

So, we should make the problem worse by using fracking?

On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 08:06:28 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 06:30:35 -0500, Harryk
wrote:

Doing nothing is better than doing the wrong thing. Ethanol still has
not proved it's value.


There are other agricultural alternatives to corn ethanol. If we come up
with something, I'd like it owned by the people instead of by big,
multi-national corporations. We need to move away from "corporate uber
alles."

You should buy some stock in some of those big, multi-national
corporations. It turns out that they are all owned by the people,
people just like us.

So, you think the small investor in a multinational has some actual
say in how the company is run and the ethics involved? It's only
recently that CEO pay has been on the table as needing non-binding
approval of the stockholders!

In article ,
says...

On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 08:06:28 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 06:30:35 -0500, Harryk
wrote:

Doing nothing is better than doing the wrong thing. Ethanol still has
not proved it's value.


There are other agricultural alternatives to corn ethanol. If we come up
with something, I'd like it owned by the people instead of by big,
multi-national corporations. We need to move away from "corporate uber
alles."

You should buy some stock in some of those big, multi-national
corporations. It turns out that they are all owned by the people,
people just like us.

So, you think the small investor in a multinational has some actual
say in how the company is run and the ethics involved? It's only
recently that CEO pay has been on the table as needing non-binding
approval of the stockholders!

Yes. If enough choose not to keep stock with that company, then they
will lose in the end.

On 2/2/11 3:29 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 11:36:08 -0800, wrote:

On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 11:58:25 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 01 Feb 2011 23:49:28 -0800, wrote:

On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 02:00:06 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 01 Feb 2011 22:00:40 -0800, wrote:

On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 00:31:01 -0500, wrote:


Without the farm subsidies ethanol would be very expensive.


Right, let's do...nothing.

Doing nothing is better than doing the wrong thing. Ethanol still has
not proved it's value.

Ethanol is a ruse. We should be investing in switchgrass or algae
production and refinement.


Why not CNG, it is cheap, clean and we have plenty of it?

Why not invest in something we can grow instead of ripping apart the
earth's crust while spoiling the water table with toxins and dangerous
gases?

Because we are going to run out of water long before we run out of
oil.

So, we should make the problem worse by using fracking?

Did you just learn a new word?

I agree there have been some problem in a few places with this but the
majority of the fracking does not hurt anyone.

Do you know of anything that doesn't affect someone?


Here we go with that "equivalent" stuff again. Everything is the same,
right?