On Sun, 28 Nov 2010 09:07:34 -0500, I am Tosk
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 22:14:08 -0500, I am Tosk
wrote:

In article ,
says...

I am Tosk wrote:
In ,
says...

On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 18:02:58 -0500, I am
wrote:


In ,
says...

On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 17:23:44 -0500, John
wrote:


Cold winds or temps can
easily add a couple hours to the smoking time.

That may be the problem. It is not that cold here. I do notice when it
is in the 50s my gas grille is not as hot.

So, you guys are really cooking the birds as opposed to actually
"smoking" them. If the pop up timer is going off, it must be cooked, not
smoked. Not a big deal really as long as you get the flavor I guess...

Why do you say, "If the pop up timer....?"

The timer indicates the internal temp of the meat has reached a 'safe to eat'
state. Whether or not the bird has a pop up gauge (not a timer), it must still
be 'cooked' to a state of doneness.

No, not if it's smoked... My smoked meat never gets above 160 degrees,
it's smoked, not cooked.


What sort of meat are you talking about?

Pork is what I usually smoke... I make Kielbasa.

I have no doubt that you smoke pork, and that it's internal temp reaches 160F,
but I have a doubt that the smoker temp is also 160F.

Have you ever had real smoke preserved meat (smoked meat)?

Does beef jerky count? Also, I've had the smoked salmon from Alaska that's sold
at Costco, et al. Great stuff.

You *could* send me a few pounds of your kielbasa to test. :)
I say a 'few pounds' 'cause it wouldn't be worth the trouble just to mail a
smidgen.
--

Hope you're having a great day!

John H

On Sun, 28 Nov 2010 10:49:26 -0500, I am Tosk
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 21:30:44 -0500, L G wrote:

John H wrote:
On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 18:14:59 -0500, I am
wrote:


In ,
says...

In ,
says...

On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 17:23:44 -0500, John
wrote:


Cold winds or temps can
easily add a couple hours to the smoking time.

That may be the problem. It is not that cold here. I do notice when it
is in the 50s my gas grille is not as hot.

So, you guys are really cooking the birds as opposed to actually
"smoking" them. If the pop up timer is going off, it must be cooked, not
smoked. Not a big deal really as long as you get the flavor I guess...

What kind of wood do you guys use?

The reason I have to ask here is I need to make a new smokehouse and I
am trying to decide if I should do that or just buy one of these
"smokers"... I have thought of making a hybrid using one of them
though with my Father in laws' Baffle system for redirecting smoke and
at least 6 feet with 8 inch stovepipe...

I could make a nice box out of wood if I wanted to...

I use hickory, mesquite, or, if I can get it, apple. We had to cut down a
hickory tree in the back yard, so I've had lots of hickory to use.

Toss the mesquite or save it for beef - and use it sparingly. I prefer
fruit woods with hickory. The mixture depends on the meat.

I like the mesquite with both beef and pork. It's strong. Fruit trees are great
with poultry and fish.

Never tried it... I would like to find some around here.

Check Ace Hardware. Our local one does a pretty good job of stocking various
smoker woods.
--

Hope you're having a great day!

John H

On Nov 26, 11:49*pm, I am Tosk
wrote:
In article ,
says...



wrote:
On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 11:53:59 -0500, I am Tosk
*wrote:

What is a "Water Smoker"?

A smoker with a pan of water under the food. It puts some steam in the
smoke.
Most of them do it.

It really doesn't add anything to the meat that you are smoking. *I have
read a lot and learned a lot. *There are other methods that are simpler
and cleaner. *Sand is the favorite. *Nothing in the pan is 2nd.

Well, if you are still talking about cooking the meat at 225 plus
degrees, you are reading the wrong material


The meat never gets to 225 degrees. The meat rises in temp to about
160, then stays there as the collagen (connective tissue) in the meat
breaks down, turning into water, which cools the meat. This is
tenderizing the meat, and the process can last for hours. When the
meat start rising in temp above that 160 or so plateau, it's done and
ready to be removed from the smoker.

I use a Brinkmann horizontal smoker with the offset firebox. Same
basic process as the Red, White and Blue (great ribs!). My ribs and
brisket are as good as the best I've ever had. We'll usually do an
olive oil and rosemary infused whole chicken or two when it's fired
up. Hot Italian sausage is good in there as well. Hickory, pecan, or
just a *little* mesquite wood does the trick.

Oh, and Stubb's BBQ sauce if you want it wet. Great stuff, more like
Texas smokehouse sauce than that sweet, ketchup crap that usually
comes from the grocery store.

On Nov 26, 6:00*pm, wrote:
On Thu, 25 Nov 2010 14:03:33 -0800 (PST), "Jack."





wrote:
On Nov 25, 1:13*pm, wrote:
On Thu, 25 Nov 2010 07:48:26 -0800 (PST), "Jack."

wrote:
On Nov 24, 8:39*pm, wrote:
On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 14:19:37 -0800 (PST), "Jack."

wrote:
On Nov 24, 4:42*pm, wrote:
On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 15:18:16 -0500, "MMC" wrote:
I agree with Ken, I'm not afraid of someone seeing my scanned image,
having some guy search me for contraband or making me take off my
jacket and shoes. As long as EVERYONE has to follow the same
production and EVERYONE is subjected to the same inconvenience, we'll
all stay safe.

It's unfortunate things have gotten to this point but, maybe because
of the new rules, at least they got home safe.

-------

The company that makes the screening machines is represented by Michael
Chertoff, former DHS head (DHS owns TSA) and the machines are being bought
with Obama bailout money (another 1,000 for $300M). I guess that makes it
bipartisan?
If the new measures were above board, why can you be charged (and fined up
to $11k) for not playing along instead of just not being allowed to board,
like before?
It's about corruption and coercion, under the BS cover of security.

I'm boycotting air travel until Obamas wife and kids go thru this cr*p.

There's a big diff between being safe and feeling safe. It's a pretty
widely held understanding that the scanning and groping don't make us
safe. We need intelligent profiling, and we need a layered approach.
Most of this should happen before the airport.

This is all to make flying on a commercial flight safer, and it does
achieve something toward that. *It does not try to make the airport
itself safe... that has never been the goal. *If a terrorist simply
wants to kill lots of people, there are many environments that are
more target dense and less secure than an airport. *Concerts and
sporting events, to name two.

Something, but not very much. Why would a terrorist care if he killed
people on the ground vs. in the air? It's pretty obvious that anyone
trying to get on a plane has to go through a lot more hassle than
simply walking into the airport.

I thought the point was to make us safer? I don't recall DHS claiming
to make us safer only on the plane.

The conversation is about TSA agents and security screening at
airports. *That's only about airborne security.

Wider DHS measures are another thing completely.

So boarding isn't related to airborne security? Nice try!

??????? *The boarding process is exactly what we were talking about.
That begins when you leave the general area, process through TSA
security, and go to the gate area. *Ticketed passengers only. *It's
not just walking down the jetway. *Do you understand the distinction,
and process?

You said it was all about agents and security screening. I said that
the point was to make us safer when we fly. That has to include the
in-the-airport part, which is pre-boarding also.

No it doesn't. Now you want relatives, friends, grandma, etc... to
have to undergo patdowns when they come to meet you at your arriving
flight? That will *never* fly, pardon the pun. The intent of TSA has
always been to make *flying* safer. In fact, from their own website,
"deployed a Federal workforce to meet Congressional deadlines for
screening all commercial airline passengers and baggage." Not
screening grandma who meets you at your arriving flight, but rather
"commercial airline passengers and baggage". Their mission is
different from the one you're imagining here.


If you want to be safer while flying, don't allow the cockpit doors to
be opened during flights. Then, no matter what sharp implement is
available (and there are plenty) the pilots can't be involved other
than landing the plane.

?????? *The cockpit doors were reinforced after 9/11 to prevent forced
entry.

Have you not flow in the last 9 years?

Reinforcing them and not allowing them to be opened are two different
things. Have you not read anything related in the last 9 years?

They are reinforced to prevent unwanted opening. They *must* be able
to be opened to enable the crew to enter and exit. Reading can't take
the place of common sense. :-

In article ,
says...

In article 62d3bd07-e04f-42e7-b9af-6397b0a59d51
@z20g2000pra.googlegroups.com, says...

On Nov 26, 11:49*pm, I am Tosk
wrote:
In article ,
says...



wrote:
On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 11:53:59 -0500, I am Tosk
*wrote:

What is a "Water Smoker"?

A smoker with a pan of water under the food. It puts some steam in the
smoke.
Most of them do it.

It really doesn't add anything to the meat that you are smoking. *I have
read a lot and learned a lot. *There are other methods that are simpler
and cleaner. *Sand is the favorite. *Nothing in the pan is 2nd.

Well, if you are still talking about cooking the meat at 225 plus
degrees, you are reading the wrong material


The meat never gets to 225 degrees. The meat rises in temp to about
160, then stays there as the collagen (connective tissue) in the meat
breaks down, turning into water, which cools the meat. This is
tenderizing the meat, and the process can last for hours. When the
meat start rising in temp above that 160 or so plateau, it's done and
ready to be removed from the smoker.

I use a Brinkmann horizontal smoker with the offset firebox. Same
basic process as the Red, White and Blue (great ribs!). My ribs and
brisket are as good as the best I've ever had. We'll usually do an
olive oil and rosemary infused whole chicken or two when it's fired
up. Hot Italian sausage is good in there as well. Hickory, pecan, or
just a *little* mesquite wood does the trick.

Oh, and Stubb's BBQ sauce if you want it wet. Great stuff, more like
Texas smokehouse sauce than that sweet, ketchup crap that usually
comes from the grocery store.

I agree about the Stubbs BBQ. Most like what I ate down south than any
other, I love it..

Sauce in the south is a regional thing. Alabama's typical is a little
different than Georgia's, etc. North Carolina's is way different in that
it typically has NO tomato product in it. South Carolina in the right
region has a mustard based sauce. Northern Alabama has a white sauce
that is mayonnaise and vinegar based.

On Nov 28, 1:35*pm, Crotchedy Harry wrote:
In article ,
says...







In article 62d3bd07-e04f-42e7-b9af-6397b0a59d51
@z20g2000pra.googlegroups.com, says...

On Nov 26, 11:49 pm, I am Tosk
wrote:
In article ,
says...

wrote:
On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 11:53:59 -0500, I am Tosk
wrote:

What is a "Water Smoker"?

A smoker with a pan of water under the food. It puts some steam in the
smoke.
Most of them do it.

It really doesn't add anything to the meat that you are smoking. I have
read a lot and learned a lot. There are other methods that are simpler
and cleaner. Sand is the favorite. Nothing in the pan is 2nd.

Well, if you are still talking about cooking the meat at 225 plus
degrees, you are reading the wrong material

The meat never gets to 225 degrees. *The meat rises in temp to about
160, then stays there as the collagen (connective tissue) in the meat
breaks down, turning into water, which cools the meat. *This is
tenderizing the meat, and the process can last for hours. *When the
meat start rising in temp above that 160 or so plateau, it's done and
ready to be removed from the smoker.

I use a Brinkmann horizontal smoker with the offset firebox. *Same
basic process as the Red, White and Blue (great ribs!). *My ribs and
brisket are as good as the best I've ever had. *We'll usually do an
olive oil and rosemary infused whole chicken or two when it's fired
up. *Hot Italian sausage is good in there as well. *Hickory, pecan, or
just a *little* mesquite wood does the trick.

Oh, and Stubb's BBQ sauce if you want it wet. *Great stuff, more like
Texas smokehouse sauce than that sweet, ketchup crap that usually
comes from the grocery store.

I agree about the Stubbs BBQ. Most like what I ate down south than any
other, I love it..

Sauce in the south is a regional thing. Alabama's typical is a little
different than Georgia's, etc. North Carolina's is way different in that
it typically has NO tomato product in it. South Carolina in the right
region has a mustard based sauce. Northern Alabama has a white sauce
that is mayonnaise and vinegar based.

I'm in SC in the area that does the mustard-based stuff. BBQ to the
locals mean pit-cooked pork over hickory, chopped and mixed with the
mustard based sauce. I like it OK, but some of it is too mustard-y,
if you know what I mean. To me, BBQ sauce needs to have a bite... a
kick to it. Chicken is better than pork with the local sauce. My FIL
is from south GA, and he mixes up a concoction that is heavy on the
hot sauce, with mayo, mustard, ketchup, black pepper, vinegar... you
get the picture. Big bite, not sweet, right amount of body. Good
stuff.


I like the Texas way of BBQ, with the different cuts of smoked meats,
sauce on the side. My ribs and brisket are dry-rubbed, with a final
minimal coat of sauce just before taking them off.

When we BBQ (not smoke) chicken, I cook it, then coat with sauce
lightly, get some caramelization, then another light coat and into an
ice chest lined with foil to rest. That last steaming and resting
makes it moist and lets the sauce "set"... the finishing touch.

Damn, I'm hungry. :-

On Sun, 28 Nov 2010 13:05:29 -0800 (PST), "Jack." wrote:

On Nov 28, 1:35*pm, Crotchedy Harry wrote:
In article ,
says...







In article 62d3bd07-e04f-42e7-b9af-6397b0a59d51
@z20g2000pra.googlegroups.com, says...

On Nov 26, 11:49 pm, I am Tosk
wrote:
In article ,
says...

wrote:
On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 11:53:59 -0500, I am Tosk
wrote:

What is a "Water Smoker"?

A smoker with a pan of water under the food. It puts some steam in the
smoke.
Most of them do it.

It really doesn't add anything to the meat that you are smoking. I have
read a lot and learned a lot. There are other methods that are simpler
and cleaner. Sand is the favorite. Nothing in the pan is 2nd.

Well, if you are still talking about cooking the meat at 225 plus
degrees, you are reading the wrong material

The meat never gets to 225 degrees. *The meat rises in temp to about
160, then stays there as the collagen (connective tissue) in the meat
breaks down, turning into water, which cools the meat. *This is
tenderizing the meat, and the process can last for hours. *When the
meat start rising in temp above that 160 or so plateau, it's done and
ready to be removed from the smoker.

I use a Brinkmann horizontal smoker with the offset firebox. *Same
basic process as the Red, White and Blue (great ribs!). *My ribs and
brisket are as good as the best I've ever had. *We'll usually do an
olive oil and rosemary infused whole chicken or two when it's fired
up. *Hot Italian sausage is good in there as well. *Hickory, pecan, or
just a *little* mesquite wood does the trick.

Oh, and Stubb's BBQ sauce if you want it wet. *Great stuff, more like
Texas smokehouse sauce than that sweet, ketchup crap that usually
comes from the grocery store.

I agree about the Stubbs BBQ. Most like what I ate down south than any
other, I love it..

Sauce in the south is a regional thing. Alabama's typical is a little
different than Georgia's, etc. North Carolina's is way different in that
it typically has NO tomato product in it. South Carolina in the right
region has a mustard based sauce. Northern Alabama has a white sauce
that is mayonnaise and vinegar based.

I'm in SC in the area that does the mustard-based stuff. BBQ to the
locals mean pit-cooked pork over hickory, chopped and mixed with the
mustard based sauce. I like it OK, but some of it is too mustard-y,
if you know what I mean. To me, BBQ sauce needs to have a bite... a
kick to it. Chicken is better than pork with the local sauce. My FIL
is from south GA, and he mixes up a concoction that is heavy on the
hot sauce, with mayo, mustard, ketchup, black pepper, vinegar... you
get the picture. Big bite, not sweet, right amount of body. Good
stuff.


I like the Texas way of BBQ, with the different cuts of smoked meats,
sauce on the side. My ribs and brisket are dry-rubbed, with a final
minimal coat of sauce just before taking them off.

When we BBQ (not smoke) chicken, I cook it, then coat with sauce
lightly, get some caramelization, then another light coat and into an
ice chest lined with foil to rest. That last steaming and resting
makes it moist and lets the sauce "set"... the finishing touch.

Damn, I'm hungry. :-


Hell, Jack. A good son-in-law would get that good recipe and post it right here
on rec.boats for the rest of us to try out. I could probably do without the
mayo, but all the rest sounds pretty good.
--

Hope you're having a great day!

John H

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 28 Nov 2010 13:05:29 -0800 (PST), "Jack." wrote:

On Nov 28, 1:35*pm, Crotchedy Harry wrote:
In article ,
says...







In article 62d3bd07-e04f-42e7-b9af-6397b0a59d51
@z20g2000pra.googlegroups.com, says...

On Nov 26, 11:49 pm, I am Tosk
wrote:
In article ,
says...

wrote:
On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 11:53:59 -0500, I am Tosk
wrote:

What is a "Water Smoker"?

A smoker with a pan of water under the food. It puts some steam in the
smoke.
Most of them do it.

It really doesn't add anything to the meat that you are smoking. I have
read a lot and learned a lot. There are other methods that are simpler
and cleaner. Sand is the favorite. Nothing in the pan is 2nd.

Well, if you are still talking about cooking the meat at 225 plus
degrees, you are reading the wrong material

The meat never gets to 225 degrees. *The meat rises in temp to about
160, then stays there as the collagen (connective tissue) in the meat
breaks down, turning into water, which cools the meat. *This is
tenderizing the meat, and the process can last for hours. *When the
meat start rising in temp above that 160 or so plateau, it's done and
ready to be removed from the smoker.

I use a Brinkmann horizontal smoker with the offset firebox. *Same
basic process as the Red, White and Blue (great ribs!). *My ribs and
brisket are as good as the best I've ever had. *We'll usually do an
olive oil and rosemary infused whole chicken or two when it's fired
up. *Hot Italian sausage is good in there as well. *Hickory, pecan, or

Most in the south protect their sauce and Q recipes to the death!

On Nov 28, 7:14*pm, John H wrote:
On Sun, 28 Nov 2010 13:05:29 -0800 (PST), "Jack." wrote:
On Nov 28, 1:35*pm, Crotchedy Harry wrote:
In article ,
says...

In article 62d3bd07-e04f-42e7-b9af-6397b0a59d51
@z20g2000pra.googlegroups.com, says...

On Nov 26, 11:49 pm, I am Tosk
wrote:
In article ,
says...

wrote:
On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 11:53:59 -0500, I am Tosk
wrote:

What is a "Water Smoker"?

A smoker with a pan of water under the food. It puts some steam in the
smoke.
Most of them do it.

It really doesn't add anything to the meat that you are smoking. I have
read a lot and learned a lot. There are other methods that are simpler
and cleaner. Sand is the favorite. Nothing in the pan is 2nd.

Well, if you are still talking about cooking the meat at 225 plus
degrees, you are reading the wrong material

The meat never gets to 225 degrees. *The meat rises in temp to about
160, then stays there as the collagen (connective tissue) in the meat
breaks down, turning into water, which cools the meat. *This is
tenderizing the meat, and the process can last for hours. *When the
meat start rising in temp above that 160 or so plateau, it's done and
ready to be removed from the smoker.

I use a Brinkmann horizontal smoker with the offset firebox. *Same
basic process as the Red, White and Blue (great ribs!). *My ribs and
brisket are as good as the best I've ever had. *We'll usually do an
olive oil and rosemary infused whole chicken or two when it's fired
up. *Hot Italian sausage is good in there as well. *Hickory, pecan, or
just a *little* mesquite wood does the trick.

Oh, and Stubb's BBQ sauce if you want it wet. *Great stuff, more like
Texas smokehouse sauce than that sweet, ketchup crap that usually
comes from the grocery store.

I agree about the Stubbs BBQ. Most like what I ate down south than any
other, I love it..

Sauce in the south is a regional thing. Alabama's typical is a little
different than Georgia's, etc. North Carolina's is way different in that
it typically has NO tomato product in it. South Carolina in the right
region has a mustard based sauce. Northern Alabama has a white sauce
that is mayonnaise and vinegar based.

I'm in SC in the area that does the mustard-based stuff. *BBQ to the
locals mean pit-cooked pork over hickory, chopped and mixed with the
mustard based sauce. *I like it OK, but some of it is too mustard-y,
if you know what I mean. *To me, BBQ sauce needs to have a bite... a
kick to it. *Chicken is better than pork with the local sauce. *My FIL
is from south GA, and he mixes up a concoction that is heavy on the
hot sauce, with mayo, mustard, ketchup, black pepper, vinegar... you
get the picture. *Big bite, not sweet, right amount of body. *Good
stuff.

I like the Texas way of BBQ, with the different cuts of smoked meats,
sauce on the side. *My ribs and brisket are dry-rubbed, with a final
minimal coat of sauce just before taking them off.

When we BBQ (not smoke) chicken, I cook it, then coat with sauce
lightly, get some caramelization, then another light coat and into an
ice chest lined with foil to rest. *That last steaming and resting
makes it moist and lets the sauce "set"... the finishing touch.

Damn, I'm hungry. *:-

Hell, Jack. A good son-in-law would get that good recipe and post it right here
on rec.boats for the rest of us to try out. I could probably do without the
mayo, but all the rest sounds pretty good.
--

I can try, but it won't be easy. He and his wife are both graduates
of the "pinch of this, glop of that" cooking school. I'll wager his
sauce has never seen a measuring cup.

In article ,
says...

In article ,
says...

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 28 Nov 2010 13:05:29 -0800 (PST), "Jack." wrote:

On Nov 28, 1:35*pm, Crotchedy Harry wrote:
In article ,
says...







In article 62d3bd07-e04f-42e7-b9af-6397b0a59d51
@z20g2000pra.googlegroups.com, says...

On Nov 26, 11:49 pm, I am Tosk
wrote:
In article ,
says...

wrote:
On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 11:53:59 -0500, I am Tosk
wrote:

What is a "Water Smoker"?

A smoker with a pan of water under the food. It puts some steam in the
smoke.
Most of them do it.

It really doesn't add anything to the meat that you are smoking. I have
read a lot and learned a lot. There are other methods that are simpler
and cleaner. Sand is the favorite. Nothing in the pan is 2nd.

Well, if you are still talking about cooking the meat at 225 plus
degrees, you are reading the wrong material

The meat never gets to 225 degrees. *The meat rises in temp to about
160, then stays there as the collagen (connective tissue) in the meat
breaks down, turning into water, which cools the meat. *This is
tenderizing the meat, and the process can last for hours. *When the
meat start rising in temp above that 160 or so plateau, it's done and
ready to be removed from the smoker.

Well, it's manly because Q is serious business around here. Entering
contests etc. So......if it's silly, what about that Kielbasa recipe???