Should I Upgrade or Update My Engine?
 

On Aug 30, 1:43*pm, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Aug 30, 1:28*pm, "*e#c" wrote:



On Aug 30, 12:15*pm, jamesgangnc wrote:

On Aug 30, 12:00*pm, W1TEF wrote:

On Mon, 30 Aug 2010 07:21:18 -0500, Jim wrote:
Best advice you got so far was to weigh the boat to see if the foam is
waterlogged.

I don't know if you remember Jim, but I found out that my Ranger bay
boat is about 870 lbs over published weight putting the whole rig
right on the edge of trailer capacity - 4,980 lbs for a 5,000 lb
trailer.

The foam isn't waterlogged. I called Ranger about it and they didn't
have an explanation either. *

I got to thinking about it. *A gallon of water weighs 8 lbs. *To have
870 lbs of extra water weight, the boat would have to hold 109 gals of
water.

That's a lot of cubic feet of water to have in foam on a 20 foot boat.

How do you know the foam isn't waterlogged? *Is all the space between
your floor and the hull accessible? *Case it's not on most boats.

You're right on the money. The Foam Cores are almost always NOT
accessible. When I re-did the sub frames,and floors in my boat, it WAS
accessible. No water in there, luckily.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yep, when I redid my floor I removed the foam. *The foam was only
accessible with the floor removed.

The plywood in mine had separated already, so it was easy. The foam
cores were in the rear of the boat. Both sides, measuring 5 feet long,
by 2 feet square. covered with new ply, and fiber-glassed shut using
new matting.
Problem is, I haven't found a paint that will adhere to the glass
gelcoat... Ideas? I don't want carpet in the stern of the boat. When
fishing, it gets stained with Rainbow Trout blood...lol.
I could put down those 3m " no-slip " strips......

Should I Upgrade or Update My Engine?
 

On 8/30/10 1:18 PM, wrote:

I often think the published weight is before they put in any of the
creature comforts like seats and consoles, just what is below the
deck.


Might be, hasn't been my experience. I buy the brand trailer I like from
a dealer in Virginia Beach and tow it home. With the current trailer,
the traffic was very light on the way home so I pulled into a truck
weigh station and asked if the operator would weigh my boat trailer. I
unhitched it, he weighed it. It was within 25 pounds of what the
manufacturer said it would weigh.


Last year, I pulled into the same weigh station with the boat. It was
within 100 pounds of what Parker said it would weigh with engine,
batteries, some gear and a half tank of fuel, less the weight of the
trailer.

Should I Upgrade or Update My Engine?
 

On Aug 30, 2:06*pm, "*e#c" wrote:
On Aug 30, 1:43*pm, jamesgangnc wrote:





On Aug 30, 1:28*pm, "*e#c" wrote:

On Aug 30, 12:15*pm, jamesgangnc wrote:

On Aug 30, 12:00*pm, W1TEF wrote:

On Mon, 30 Aug 2010 07:21:18 -0500, Jim wrote:
Best advice you got so far was to weigh the boat to see if the foam is
waterlogged.

I don't know if you remember Jim, but I found out that my Ranger bay
boat is about 870 lbs over published weight putting the whole rig
right on the edge of trailer capacity - 4,980 lbs for a 5,000 lb
trailer.

The foam isn't waterlogged. I called Ranger about it and they didn't
have an explanation either. *

I got to thinking about it. *A gallon of water weighs 8 lbs. *To have
870 lbs of extra water weight, the boat would have to hold 109 gals of
water.

That's a lot of cubic feet of water to have in foam on a 20 foot boat.

How do you know the foam isn't waterlogged? *Is all the space between
your floor and the hull accessible? *Case it's not on most boats.

You're right on the money. The Foam Cores are almost always NOT
accessible. When I re-did the sub frames,and floors in my boat, it WAS
accessible. No water in there, luckily.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yep, when I redid my floor I removed the foam. *The foam was only
accessible with the floor removed.

The plywood in mine had separated already, so it was easy. The foam
cores were in the rear of the boat. Both sides, measuring 5 feet long,
by 2 feet square. covered with new ply, and fiber-glassed shut using
new matting.
Problem is, I haven't found a paint that will adhere to the glass
gelcoat... Ideas? I don't want carpet in the stern of the boat. When
fishing, it gets stained with Rainbow Trout blood...lol.
I could put down those 3m " no-slip " strips......- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I painted the inside of my nelow floor hold with tinted black epoxy.
Took a couple coats. Seems to have held up so far. I used the same
tint that is used in gelcoat, uscomposites.com has it.

Should I Upgrade or Update My Engine?
 

In article , says...

On 8/30/10 1:18 PM, wrote:

I often think the published weight is before they put in any of the
creature comforts like seats and consoles, just what is below the
deck.


Might be, hasn't been my experience. I buy the brand trailer I like from
a dealer in Virginia Beach and tow it home. With the current trailer,
the traffic was very light on the way home so I pulled into a truck
weigh station and asked if the operator would weigh my boat trailer. I
unhitched it, he weighed it. It was within 25 pounds of what the
manufacturer said it would weigh.


Last year, I pulled into the same weigh station with the boat. It was
within 100 pounds of what Parker said it would weigh with engine,
batteries, some gear and a half tank of fuel, less the weight of the
trailer.

Bull****! Are you trying to tell people here that their published weight
is within 100 lbs. of actual AFTER adding a half of tank of fuel, and
your gear?????? You are full of ****, spoofer.

Should I Upgrade or Update My Engine?
 

"Secular Humorist" wrote in message
...
On 8/30/10 1:18 PM, wrote:

I often think the published weight is before they put in any of the
creature comforts like seats and consoles, just what is below the
deck.


Might be, hasn't been my experience. I buy the brand trailer I like from a
dealer in Virginia Beach and tow it home. With the current trailer, the
traffic was very light on the way home so I pulled into a truck weigh
station and asked if the operator would weigh my boat trailer. I unhitched
it, he weighed it. It was within 25 pounds of what the manufacturer said
it would weigh.


Last year, I pulled into the same weigh station with the boat. It was
within 100 pounds of what Parker said it would weigh with engine,
batteries, some gear and a half tank of fuel, less the weight of the
trailer.


If BS was music....you'd be a brass band!

Should I Upgrade or Update My Engine?
 

W1TEF wrote:
On Mon, 30 Aug 2010 07:21:18 -0500, Jim wrote:

Best advice you got so far was to weigh the boat to see if the foam is
waterlogged.

I don't know if you remember Jim, but I found out that my Ranger bay
boat is about 870 lbs over published weight putting the whole rig
right on the edge of trailer capacity - 4,980 lbs for a 5,000 lb
trailer.

The foam isn't waterlogged. I called Ranger about it and they didn't
have an explanation either.

I got to thinking about it. A gallon of water weighs 8 lbs. To have
870 lbs of extra water weight, the boat would have to hold 109 gals of
water.

That's a lot of cubic feet of water to have in foam on a 20 foot boat.

I've seen where some weigh their new boat and find it a couple hundred
pounds over. The manufacturers always claim it's because different
workers lay glass differently than others, especially in how much resin.
And that makes sense if you're talking 10% weight or so.
Can't hurt to weigh the boat as a first step.
If it's not way more heavy than it should be, then go after the power side.
But if it's waterlogged, might as well throw it away.
Every case of waterlogged foam I've seen also has rotten stringers.
It's a 1972 boat glass boat. Nixon was President.

Jim - Some preferred Terry Bass over Ranger.

Should I Upgrade or Update My Engine?
 

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 30 Aug 2010 12:13:53 -0400, I am Tosk
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 30 Aug 2010 07:21:18 -0500, Jim wrote:

Best advice you got so far was to weigh the boat to see if the foam is
waterlogged.

I don't know if you remember Jim, but I found out that my Ranger bay
boat is about 870 lbs over published weight putting the whole rig
right on the edge of trailer capacity - 4,980 lbs for a 5,000 lb
trailer.

The foam isn't waterlogged. I called Ranger about it and they didn't
have an explanation either.

I got to thinking about it. A gallon of water weighs 8 lbs. To have
870 lbs of extra water weight, the boat would have to hold 109 gals of
water.

That's a lot of cubic feet of water to have in foam on a 20 foot boat.

There is always the possibility the boat manufacturers play loose and
fast with the weight, the way auto manufacturers play with gas
mileage... Yes, even your beloved Ranger, what are they supposed to
tell you, "we lied". In the words of the immortal spaceman, "~snerk~"!

Oh no - that's not the case at all. They were right up front that the
specs could vary depending on any one particular boat.

It was the 870 lbs that floored them. Even if you took worst case
scenario manufacturing excess, extra ply on the hull/transom/etc.,
it still didn't work out to 870 lbs.

I talked to their engineers about it. We came up with a plan, opened
the access panels, tilted the boat, drain open - nada. Hull dry as a
bone.

Still don't know where the weight came from. Not that it matters. :)

Knowing how you are and how much you are willing to "do" (read spend:)
to go fast, I am surprised you let this go.?.??

I mean, we know the trailer industry does it, the auto industry with the
gas mileage, the boat engine industry with the HP ratings, air
conditioning and heating... Almost every industry that has to do with
any kind of "performance" does it, plays fast and loose with the stats
to sell more product, why would you not think Ranger and the rest of the
industry would not do it with hull weights? Quite frankly I am sure they
all do it, maybe they don't want to but if they didn't, they couldn't
compete with all the rest. What if a boat manufacturer put the realistic
safe carry capacity on it's hull plate instead of the fantasy number the
USCG ratings allow them to put on there, they wouldn't sell any boats!
LOL!

--
Rowdy Mouse Racing - We race for cheese!

Should I Upgrade or Update My Engine?
 

On 8/30/10 4:18 PM, W1TEF wrote:
On Mon, 30 Aug 2010 15:39:03 -0400,
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Aug 2010 09:15:27 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc
wrote:

On Aug 30, 12:00 pm, wrote:
On Mon, 30 Aug 2010 07:21:18 -0500, wrote:
Best advice you got so far was to weigh the boat to see if the foam is
waterlogged.

I don't know if you remember Jim, but I found out that my Ranger bay
boat is about 870 lbs over published weight putting the whole rig
right on the edge of trailer capacity - 4,980 lbs for a 5,000 lb
trailer.

The foam isn't waterlogged. I called Ranger about it and they didn't
have an explanation either.

I got to thinking about it. A gallon of water weighs 8 lbs. To have
870 lbs of extra water weight, the boat would have to hold 109 gals of
water.

That's a lot of cubic feet of water to have in foam on a 20 foot boat.

How do you know the foam isn't waterlogged? Is all the space between
your floor and the hull accessible? Case it's not on most boats.

Pulled the access panels.

Where the extra weight came from, nobody knows.

Opps - hit send too early. :)

7.5 gallons of water takes up one cubic foot of space.

109 gallons of water takes up 14.5 cubic feet of space.

14.5 cubic feet is a LOT of space on a small boat.

Even if the foam was open celled (which it is not), the sheer amount
of space required for the weight gain would rule that out.


One cubic foot of lead to make the boat float level... :)

Should I Upgrade or Update My Engine?
 

On 8/30/10 4:38 PM, W1TEF wrote:
On Mon, 30 Aug 2010 14:26:49 -0500, wrote:

W1TEF wrote:
On Mon, 30 Aug 2010 07:21:18 -0500, wrote:

Best advice you got so far was to weigh the boat to see if the foam is
waterlogged.

I don't know if you remember Jim, but I found out that my Ranger bay
boat is about 870 lbs over published weight putting the whole rig
right on the edge of trailer capacity - 4,980 lbs for a 5,000 lb
trailer.

The foam isn't waterlogged. I called Ranger about it and they didn't
have an explanation either.

I got to thinking about it. A gallon of water weighs 8 lbs. To have
870 lbs of extra water weight, the boat would have to hold 109 gals of
water.

That's a lot of cubic feet of water to have in foam on a 20 foot boat.

I've seen where some weigh their new boat and find it a couple hundred
pounds over. The manufacturers always claim it's because different
workers lay glass differently than others, especially in how much resin.
And that makes sense if you're talking 10% weight or so.

Funny you should mention that. Back when I was in the market for a
32' CC I thought about a custom designed CC from Blue Fin over in
Bristol, RI. We took a trip over there, met the design crew, took the
manufacturing plant tour (which was really interesting) and just
generally got comfortable with them - great folks by the way.

Anyhow, I asked about weight (because of the Ranger) and the design
guy told me the weight spec could be off as much as 10/12% to the plus
side and never on the other side. For exactly that reason - extra
layer of glass, little more mat in strength areas, density of the core
material and how it absorbed the resin under vacuum - he listed a
bunch of things that would cause the extra weight.

So you're right on that score.

Just as a side note, I would have bought the boat they planned for me
if the Grady dealer hadn't come up with an acceptable price. :)

This is funny stuff. In building modern, small fiberglass boats, the
glass cloth is cut to a pattern, either by hand or by numerically
controlled machines. The amount of chop is known. The amount of gelcoat
is known. The amount of resin is known. The amount of XL ply is known.
So are the weights of these products, as are the weights of what the
factory installs into the boat, such as a pair of batteries. The Parker
factory told me my boat, sans engine, would weigh about 2700 pounds, a
bit less than what it usually did because I opted out of a fairly heavy
option. I knew what the engine would weigh, and I know what a half tank
of gas weighs.

All things being equal, the finished hull and accessories, san engine
and gas, for my boat would have been within 50 pounds of what the
factory says, to account for more resin, glass, whatever.

But 10 to 12% more on a small boat built to the typical standard without
additional heavy options? Bull****.

My guess is that no one at Ranger actually weighed a model of the boat
Tom boat when his was made. Someone just guessed, and they guessed...low.

Some years ago, there was a discussion in a real boating group about a
Bertram that wouldn't float level on its lines, and the "fix" was
pouring in a couple of tons of concrete on the "high" side.

Maybe tom's boat has some "extra" weight for that reason...or perhaps
there are a few bodies stuffed in under the bilges.

Should I Upgrade or Update My Engine?
 

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 30 Aug 2010 16:05:10 -0400, I am Tosk
wrote:

Knowing how you are and how much you are willing to "do" (read spend:)
to go fast, I am surprised you let this go.?.??

Hey - what can I say - I like the boat. :)

I've gotten a fair amount of use out of the boat so if and when I buy
another one (which is not out of the question for next year), I just
might look into it a little more - as in take the boat apart.

Ok, maybe not take the boat apart, but certainly do some test cores
through the access panels (which, strangely, there are a lot of) just
to see one way or the other.

Admittedly, sans the extra weight, it might go a tad faster than it
does now, but so what?

You also have to take into consideration that the year 2000 bay boat
was the very first model year for that style boat from Ranger. I
heard via a pretty reliable source that the guy in PA who bought the
sister boat to mine (reverse color scheme on his) came up with a
similar figure when he traded trucks - a diesel to a gas engine truck
which is exactly what happened with me.

So it certainly is possible that Ranger screwed up the specs somewhere
along the way.

That would make sense. Being a new model, maybe in the rush to get it
out they just based the figures on the computer models...



.... and then took a bit more off just for good measure;) But I can see
it happening, without too much of a conspiracy.

--
Rowdy Mouse Racing - We race for cheese!