wrote in message
...
On Tue, 04 May 2010 18:01:07 -0400, hk
wrote:

...in the latest Rasmussen survey of Florida voter preferences for the
general election, 38% to 34%.

Rubio, of course, has the Republican primary locked.

The Democrat in the general election race hasn't the name recognition
yet of Rubio or Crist.

Could be the most interesting general election in the country this fall,
with Rubio getting the hard-right mindless conservative voters, Crist
pulling moderate Republicans and some Indys and Dems, and maybe winning,
or spoiling Rubio's chances, giving the Dem the edge.

I don't have a horse in the Florida U.S. Senate race, but if Crist or
the Dem beat Rubio, it'll be a slam on the mindless right, and *that*
can only be good for America.

Most Floridians haven't really figured out Meek is a black guy so I am
not sure the polls are really all that accurate.
I do expect this to get nasty. Don't be surprised if the recurring
rumor that Crist is gay pops up.


Do you think Meet's race would be an issue? Obama won Florida and he was
born in Keny.. oh never mind.

On 5/4/10 8:25 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Tue, 04 May 2010 18:01:07 -0400,
wrote:

...in the latest Rasmussen survey of Florida voter preferences for the
general election, 38% to 34%.

Rubio, of course, has the Republican primary locked.

The Democrat in the general election race hasn't the name recognition
yet of Rubio or Crist.

Could be the most interesting general election in the country this fall,
with Rubio getting the hard-right mindless conservative voters, Crist
pulling moderate Republicans and some Indys and Dems, and maybe winning,
or spoiling Rubio's chances, giving the Dem the edge.

I don't have a horse in the Florida U.S. Senate race, but if Crist or
the Dem beat Rubio, it'll be a slam on the mindless right, and *that*
can only be good for America.

Most Floridians haven't really figured out Meek is a black guy so I am
not sure the polls are really all that accurate.
I do expect this to get nasty. Don't be surprised if the recurring
rumor that Crist is gay pops up.


Do you think Meet's race would be an issue? Obama won Florida and he was
born in Keny.. oh never mind.




:)



--
The Tea Party's teabaggers are just the Republican base by another name.

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 4 May 2010 17:25:54 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 04 May 2010 18:01:07 -0400, hk
wrote:

...in the latest Rasmussen survey of Florida voter preferences for the
general election, 38% to 34%.

Rubio, of course, has the Republican primary locked.

The Democrat in the general election race hasn't the name recognition
yet of Rubio or Crist.

Could be the most interesting general election in the country this fall,
with Rubio getting the hard-right mindless conservative voters, Crist
pulling moderate Republicans and some Indys and Dems, and maybe winning,
or spoiling Rubio's chances, giving the Dem the edge.

I don't have a horse in the Florida U.S. Senate race, but if Crist or
the Dem beat Rubio, it'll be a slam on the mindless right, and *that*
can only be good for America.

Most Floridians haven't really figured out Meek is a black guy so I am
not sure the polls are really all that accurate.
I do expect this to get nasty. Don't be surprised if the recurring
rumor that Crist is gay pops up.


Do you think Meet's race would be an issue? Obama won Florida and he was
born in Keny.. oh never mind.


Obama might not win if the election was held today.
Rubio is Cuban and will carry a lot of the same counties Obama
carried.

There are also a lot of people who wanted SB6 that Crist originally
supported, then vetoed. That was the one that made teacher pay
coincide with teacher performance and limited tenure. There are a lot
of parents here who are ****ed that the school board spends $17,661
per student ($1.4B/80400 students) and our graduation rate is 53%.
They think something is dreadfully wrong with the school system.

This thing is like FCAT where the better off schools, with parents at home
to help the kids and make sure they did thier home work got better scores
and funding was tied to those scores.
It was probably just typical pie in the sky optmism and no conspiracy but
the way it worked out is it benefited the affluent and screwed the poorer
schools and kids. I think the merit pay tied to student grades would end up
driving good people away that happen to be working in schools that don't
score well and never havea hope of making better than the crap pay that they
start with. What professional would stick around if the only chance for a
pay raise was based on the performance of others that had no concern for
better performance on thier own part?
It all sounds good in theory but sucks in practice.


There are also plenty of people who think all that stimulus money,
that Crist hugged Obama for, seemed to pass them by.

If Crist loses Miami Dade and Broward, I doubt he can win because the
red counties will go for Rubio.

Meek may get a significant amount of the Jacksonville vote and he will
probably carry his predominately black (51%) West Miami Broward
district but he has really run unopposed there so we don't really know
how he would do with some actual competition. He only had about 13% of
the electorate turn out last time. In the end,
I see Rubio and Crist splitting about 75-80% of the vote.
I don't have a good prediction yet, November is a long way away but if
I was really pressed my money would be on Rubio if the election was
held today.

I looked up the history of parties in this country and since George
Washington (an independat) we always been a 2 party system. No wonder it's
so hard to pull our collective heads out!!!

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 5 May 2010 11:52:07 -0400, "mmc" wrote:

There are also a lot of people who wanted SB6 that Crist originally
supported, then vetoed. That was the one that made teacher pay
coincide with teacher performance and limited tenure. There are a lot
of parents here who are ****ed that the school board spends $17,661
per student ($1.4B/80400 students) and our graduation rate is 53%.
They think something is dreadfully wrong with the school system.

This thing is like FCAT where the better off schools, with parents at home
to help the kids and make sure they did thier home work got better scores
and funding was tied to those scores.


There is a lot of hype from the teachers saying tests don't matter but
the reality is, if you can't do well on tests, you will never be able
to get a decent job.


Well.... some people just don't test well. I have an attorney friend who
tried the Cal Bar three times before he passed. He's a heck of a lot smarter
than I, and he makes a heck of a lot more money. I've known a couple of
biologists who are quite bright, but never did well on test and never got
advanced degrees.

I think tests can be an indication of future success, but I don't think
they're the last word on the subject.

On 5/5/10 8:05 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 5 May 2010 16:38:45 -0700,
wrote:

There is a lot of hype from the teachers saying tests don't matter but
the reality is, if you can't do well on tests, you will never be able
to get a decent job.


Well.... some people just don't test well. I have an attorney friend who
tried the Cal Bar three times before he passed. He's a heck of a lot smarter
than I, and he makes a heck of a lot more money. I've known a couple of
biologists who are quite bright, but never did well on test and never got
advanced degrees.

I think tests can be an indication of future success, but I don't think
they're the last word on the subject.


Unfortunately they are a fact of life and the sooner kids learn how to
take a test the sooner they will succeed in the 21st century society.
In Florida you can't even cut hair or do fingernails without passing a
standardized test. Obviously, as you pointed out, all "professions"
use tests for a benchmark. It is also the key to getting into a decent
college, getting a decent job in the military or even things as
mundane as a driver's license.
Without test skills your only paths to success are as a rock star,
athlete or drug dealer.


The problem with putting the onus on classroom teachers for the
performance of their charges is that the teachers have no control over
the kids' environments outside of school. Educated adults who take exams
in order to practice a profession can take virtually all the time they
need to prep, and they can, within reason, control their environment.
Lots of kids who do not "achieve" have a lousy home life and that
diminishes the ability for many to prep for standardized tests.

"Without test skills your only paths to success are as a rock star,
athlete or drug dealer." Or half-term governor of Alaska.




--
The Tea Party's teabaggers are just the Republican base by another name.

In article ,
says...

On 5/5/10 8:05 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 5 May 2010 16:38:45 -0700,
wrote:

There is a lot of hype from the teachers saying tests don't matter but
the reality is, if you can't do well on tests, you will never be able
to get a decent job.


Well.... some people just don't test well. I have an attorney friend who
tried the Cal Bar three times before he passed. He's a heck of a lot smarter
than I, and he makes a heck of a lot more money. I've known a couple of
biologists who are quite bright, but never did well on test and never got
advanced degrees.

I think tests can be an indication of future success, but I don't think
they're the last word on the subject.


Unfortunately they are a fact of life and the sooner kids learn how to
take a test the sooner they will succeed in the 21st century society.
In Florida you can't even cut hair or do fingernails without passing a
standardized test. Obviously, as you pointed out, all "professions"
use tests for a benchmark. It is also the key to getting into a decent
college, getting a decent job in the military or even things as
mundane as a driver's license.
Without test skills your only paths to success are as a rock star,
athlete or drug dealer.


The problem with putting the onus on classroom teachers for the
performance of their charges is that the teachers have no control over
the kids' environments outside of school. Educated adults who take exams
in order to practice a profession can take virtually all the time they
need to prep, and they can, within reason, control their environment.
Lots of kids who do not "achieve" have a lousy home life and that
diminishes the ability for many to prep for standardized tests.

"Without test skills your only paths to success are as a rock star,
athlete or drug dealer." Or half-term governor of Alaska.

When society takes away the tools of parenting from the parents you
can't put the blame for the failings of the chidren/students upon the
parents.

Hillary's book "It Takes a Village" is proof that the
liberal/progressives/Democrat's don't want the parents to be the final
authority for their own childrens upbringing.

On 5/5/10 8:38 PM, BAR wrote:
In articleVLadncq_EJKhlH_WnZ2dnUVZ_r6dnZ2d@earthlink .com,
says...

On 5/5/10 8:05 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 5 May 2010 16:38:45 -0700,
wrote:

There is a lot of hype from the teachers saying tests don't matter but
the reality is, if you can't do well on tests, you will never be able
to get a decent job.


Well.... some people just don't test well. I have an attorney friend who
tried the Cal Bar three times before he passed. He's a heck of a lot smarter
than I, and he makes a heck of a lot more money. I've known a couple of
biologists who are quite bright, but never did well on test and never got
advanced degrees.

I think tests can be an indication of future success, but I don't think
they're the last word on the subject.


Unfortunately they are a fact of life and the sooner kids learn how to
take a test the sooner they will succeed in the 21st century society.
In Florida you can't even cut hair or do fingernails without passing a
standardized test. Obviously, as you pointed out, all "professions"
use tests for a benchmark. It is also the key to getting into a decent
college, getting a decent job in the military or even things as
mundane as a driver's license.
Without test skills your only paths to success are as a rock star,
athlete or drug dealer.


The problem with putting the onus on classroom teachers for the
performance of their charges is that the teachers have no control over
the kids' environments outside of school. Educated adults who take exams
in order to practice a profession can take virtually all the time they
need to prep, and they can, within reason, control their environment.
Lots of kids who do not "achieve" have a lousy home life and that
diminishes the ability for many to prep for standardized tests.

"Without test skills your only paths to success are as a rock star,
athlete or drug dealer." Or half-term governor of Alaska.

When society takes away the tools of parenting from the parents you
can't put the blame for the failings of the chidren/students upon the
parents.

Hillary's book "It Takes a Village" is proof that the
liberal/progressives/Democrat's don't want the parents to be the final
authority for their own childrens upbringing.


You don't have the knowledge, experience, or background to make such a
judgment.


--
The Tea Party's teabaggers are just the Republican base by another name.

On 5/5/10 9:47 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 05 May 2010 20:11:40 -0400,
wrote:

Unfortunately they are a fact of life and the sooner kids learn how to
take a test the sooner they will succeed in the 21st century society.
In Florida you can't even cut hair or do fingernails without passing a
standardized test. Obviously, as you pointed out, all "professions"
use tests for a benchmark. It is also the key to getting into a decent
college, getting a decent job in the military or even things as
mundane as a driver's license.
Without test skills your only paths to success are as a rock star,
athlete or drug dealer.



The problem with putting the onus on classroom teachers for the
performance of their charges is that the teachers have no control over
the kids' environments outside of school. Educated adults who take exams
in order to practice a profession can take virtually all the time they
need to prep, and they can, within reason, control their environment.
Lots of kids who do not "achieve" have a lousy home life and that
diminishes the ability for many to prep for standardized tests.

I have no problem with separating these kids out for additional
attention and special remedial classes. That may be where more money
should actually be spent. The problem is, this would be seen as de
facto segregation and it wouldn't take a semester before the school
board was sued.
By a like token, it is hard to create programs for the brightest
students (or just the ones who have helpful families at home) because
the demographics will not usually meet muster with the deseg
agreements the school system has to abide by.


Well, then, putting the onus on teachers thusly seems like an impossible
burden. Certainly teachers are responsible for teaching with appropriate
methodology. Students and their parents are responsible for learning. If
the teachers are teaching properly, but the students and their parents
are not holding up their part of the bargain, well...you have
failure...no matter how well the teachers perform.



--
The Tea Party's teabaggers are just the Republican base by another name.

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 05 May 2010 21:51:54 -0400, hk
wrote:


I have no problem with separating these kids out for additional
attention and special remedial classes. That may be where more money
should actually be spent. The problem is, this would be seen as de
facto segregation and it wouldn't take a semester before the school
board was sued.
By a like token, it is hard to create programs for the brightest
students (or just the ones who have helpful families at home) because
the demographics will not usually meet muster with the deseg
agreements the school system has to abide by.


Well, then, putting the onus on teachers thusly seems like an impossible
burden. Certainly teachers are responsible for teaching with appropriate
methodology. Students and their parents are responsible for learning. If
the teachers are teaching properly, but the students and their parents
are not holding up their part of the bargain, well...you have
failure...no matter how well the teachers perform.

The real question here is teachers who simply do not perform.
You can have a three time golden apple winner who is making
significantly less than the older teacher who couldn't teach a dog to
scratch fleas.
Pay is strictly time in grade and the number of degrees you have, not
your actual teaching skill. The only real way to get fired is to sleep
with one of your students. Even then, it is not certain.
That was the reason for SB6


Yup.. this is a problem. The question is.. how does one evaluate the
teacher. That's a continuing problem.

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 5 May 2010 21:30:44 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

The real question here is teachers who simply do not perform.
You can have a three time golden apple winner who is making
significantly less than the older teacher who couldn't teach a dog to
scratch fleas.
Pay is strictly time in grade and the number of degrees you have, not
your actual teaching skill. The only real way to get fired is to sleep
with one of your students. Even then, it is not certain.
That was the reason for SB6


Yup.. this is a problem. The question is.. how does one evaluate the
teacher. That's a continuing problem.


Teachers don't seem to want to be evaluated beyond their degrees and
time in grade.,
I do understand the emphasis on degrees. That is the product they sell
so they have to recognize it's worth, even when it becomes worthless.
Why do I care if an elementary school teacher has a PHD in some
obscure subject?


You're lumping all teachers and that's not appropriate. Most teachers are
decent, hard-working people who want the best for their students. Most do
not have PhDs.