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Cruising and reality
I once met a couple who had bought a boat on Lake Michigan, sailed
down the Miss. R and then across the gulf and then all over th Bahamas. They were on their way back aqnd had stopped in Apalachicola, FL and I asked how they had liked it. She had hated it. He had liked it but her dislike was enough. Another couple I know spent years re-building a boat to get ready to go cruising and then finally after 10 years of planning, set off. For some reason I still do not know, it din't work out and hey came back within 4 months. Another couple I know is working on their boat talking constantly about how they will take off as soon as they retire. What if it dosn't work out for them and they do not like it? That's a lot of wasted effort and years. Doesn't it make more sense to have a smaller boat you can afford with far fewer things to go wrong so you can afford to go NOW? A smaller boat you can afford allows you to arrange your work to allow more time for shorter coat hopping trips until you finally get some real time. I see too many big boats that sit at the dock rarely being sailed and we all know the saying that the amount of use a sailboat gets is inversely proportional to its size. |
Cruising and reality
On Apr 15, 8:23*pm, Frogwatch wrote:
I once met a couple who had bought a boat on Lake Michigan, sailed down the Miss. R and then across the gulf and then all over th Bahamas. *They were on their way back aqnd had stopped in Apalachicola, FL and I asked how they had liked it. *She had hated it. *He had liked it but her dislike was enough. Another couple I know spent years re-building a boat to get ready to go cruising and then finally after 10 years of planning, set off. *For some reason I still do not know, it din't work out and hey came back within 4 months. Another couple I know is working on their boat talking constantly about how they will take off as soon as they retire. *What if it dosn't work out for them and they do not like it? *That's a lot of wasted effort and years. Doesn't it make more sense to have a smaller boat you can afford with far fewer things to go wrong so you can afford to go NOW? *A smaller boat you can afford allows you to arrange your work to allow more time for shorter coat hopping trips until you finally get some real time. I see too many big boats that sit at the dock rarely being sailed and we all know the saying that the amount of use a sailboat gets is inversely proportional to its size. There's a guy locally that has a huge 80+ foot whatever moored and slipped at Kentucky lake, and it sits. In the fall, he'll fire it up and tool it down to Fla. and slip it there, and fly back. Then in the spring, he'll fly back down, fire it up and cruise back to Ky. Lake. And ti sits. He's done that for years. i never saw much future in that, really. |
Cruising and reality
"Frogwatch" wrote in message
... I once met a couple who had bought a boat on Lake Michigan, sailed down the Miss. R and then across the gulf and then all over th Bahamas. They were on their way back aqnd had stopped in Apalachicola, FL and I asked how they had liked it. She had hated it. He had liked it but her dislike was enough. Another couple I know spent years re-building a boat to get ready to go cruising and then finally after 10 years of planning, set off. For some reason I still do not know, it din't work out and hey came back within 4 months. Another couple I know is working on their boat talking constantly about how they will take off as soon as they retire. What if it dosn't work out for them and they do not like it? That's a lot of wasted effort and years. Doesn't it make more sense to have a smaller boat you can afford with far fewer things to go wrong so you can afford to go NOW? A smaller boat you can afford allows you to arrange your work to allow more time for shorter coat hopping trips until you finally get some real time. I see too many big boats that sit at the dock rarely being sailed and we all know the saying that the amount of use a sailboat gets is inversely proportional to its size. I wonder how many stories there are of people who actually enjoyed it. There must be a few. :) I think you're right. It does make sense to have a boat you can afford. We're not looking at a megayacht, which I suppose if we went into hock, we could "afford" (the very broadest sense of the word). As I said, two of us are not really too concerned about "jobs" at this point. The other two are, and we're trying to accomodate everyone. I think it would be quite reasonable to expect the boat would mostly sit at the dock for a year, since we're not planning on leaving before that. Even if we sailed every weeked (which is highly unrealistic - more like twice a month over the course of the year), that would still have it mostly sitting. The other three live down that way, so they'd be much more likely than I to go. In fact, assuming all goes as planned, I would likely be sailing on school boats, since I'm learning. -- Nom=de=Plume |
Cruising and reality
nom=de=plume wrote:
"Frogwatch" wrote in message ... I once met a couple who had bought a boat on Lake Michigan, sailed down the Miss. R and then across the gulf and then all over th Bahamas. They were on their way back aqnd had stopped in Apalachicola, FL and I asked how they had liked it. She had hated it. He had liked it but her dislike was enough. Another couple I know spent years re-building a boat to get ready to go cruising and then finally after 10 years of planning, set off. For some reason I still do not know, it din't work out and hey came back within 4 months. Another couple I know is working on their boat talking constantly about how they will take off as soon as they retire. What if it dosn't work out for them and they do not like it? That's a lot of wasted effort and years. Doesn't it make more sense to have a smaller boat you can afford with far fewer things to go wrong so you can afford to go NOW? A smaller boat you can afford allows you to arrange your work to allow more time for shorter coat hopping trips until you finally get some real time. I see too many big boats that sit at the dock rarely being sailed and we all know the saying that the amount of use a sailboat gets is inversely proportional to its size. I wonder how many stories there are of people who actually enjoyed it. There must be a few. :) I think you're right. It does make sense to have a boat you can afford. We're not looking at a megayacht, which I suppose if we went into hock, we could "afford" (the very broadest sense of the word). As I said, two of us are not really too concerned about "jobs" at this point. The other two are, and we're trying to accomodate everyone. Not worried about "jobs," eh? Canuck57 has you libs pegged pretty well. There's the welfare crowd, then the limo libs who don't have any work to do except keep an eye on their investment portfolios, and cry about unemployment and the homeless. When they're not figuring out what yacht to lay a cool quarter million on, that is. You got bpuharic crying about his 401k dropping down to what - half a mil? - while claiming he's "middle class," then you worrying about what yacht to buy for a quarter mil. And "letting it slip" that you could "afford" a megayacht. All the while it's the "little guy" paying for it all. Oh wait. You deserve what you have. That's right. But then you claim that dog eat dog is the other side's philosophy. You're just another braggart like Harry telling us how conspicuous consumption works, and tooting your horn. It's no wonder that Bill, who has patents and worked with Habitat, or Richard and Frogwatch, whose initiative provided jobs for many and made the world a better place, have more cred here than any limo lib. Jim - Disgusted by rampant lib hypocrisy. No wonder there's a Tea Party. |
Cruising and reality
On 4/16/10 9:07 AM, Jim wrote:
Canuck57 has you libs pegged pretty well. Gosharoonie, droogies, is that flajim posting under his old handle, or is it anon-e-moose posting as jim, or is it someone else faking his way into flajim's shoes... The fact that the poster is a fan of Canuck the Psychotic makes you go...hmmmmmm. :) |
Cruising and reality
"nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "Frogwatch" wrote in message ... I once met a couple who had bought a boat on Lake Michigan, sailed down the Miss. R and then across the gulf and then all over th Bahamas. They were on their way back aqnd had stopped in Apalachicola, FL and I asked how they had liked it. She had hated it. He had liked it but her dislike was enough. Another couple I know spent years re-building a boat to get ready to go cruising and then finally after 10 years of planning, set off. For some reason I still do not know, it din't work out and hey came back within 4 months. Another couple I know is working on their boat talking constantly about how they will take off as soon as they retire. What if it dosn't work out for them and they do not like it? That's a lot of wasted effort and years. Doesn't it make more sense to have a smaller boat you can afford with far fewer things to go wrong so you can afford to go NOW? A smaller boat you can afford allows you to arrange your work to allow more time for shorter coat hopping trips until you finally get some real time. I see too many big boats that sit at the dock rarely being sailed and we all know the saying that the amount of use a sailboat gets is inversely proportional to its size. I wonder how many stories there are of people who actually enjoyed it. There must be a few. :) I think you're right. It does make sense to have a boat you can afford. We're not looking at a megayacht, which I suppose if we went into hock, we could "afford" (the very broadest sense of the word). As I said, two of us are not really too concerned about "jobs" at this point. The other two are, and we're trying to accomodate everyone. I think it would be quite reasonable to expect the boat would mostly sit at the dock for a year, since we're not planning on leaving before that. Even if we sailed every weeked (which is highly unrealistic - more like twice a month over the course of the year), that would still have it mostly sitting. The other three live down that way, so they'd be much more likely than I to go. In fact, assuming all goes as planned, I would likely be sailing on school boats, since I'm learning. -- Nom=de=Plume How many miles would the sailboat be moored from your residence? |
Cruising and reality
On Apr 16, 11:13*am, "Don White" wrote:
"nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "Frogwatch" wrote in message ... I once met a couple who had bought a boat on Lake Michigan, sailed down the Miss. R and then across the gulf and then all over th Bahamas. *They were on their way back aqnd had stopped in Apalachicola, FL and I asked how they had liked it. *She had hated it. *He had liked it but her dislike was enough. Another couple I know spent years re-building a boat to get ready to go cruising and then finally after 10 years of planning, set off. *For some reason I still do not know, it din't work out and hey came back within 4 months. Another couple I know is working on their boat talking constantly about how they will take off as soon as they retire. *What if it dosn't work out for them and they do not like it? *That's a lot of wasted effort and years. Doesn't it make more sense to have a smaller boat you can afford with far fewer things to go wrong so you can afford to go NOW? *A smaller boat you can afford allows you to arrange your work to allow more time for shorter coat hopping trips until you finally get some real time. I see too many big boats that sit at the dock rarely being sailed and we all know the saying that the amount of use a sailboat gets is inversely proportional to its size. I wonder how many stories there are of people who actually enjoyed it. There must be a few. :) I think you're right. It does make sense to have a boat you can afford. We're not looking at a megayacht, which I suppose if we went into hock, we could "afford" (the very broadest sense of the word). As I said, two of us are not really too concerned about "jobs" at this point. The other two are, and we're trying to accomodate everyone. I think it would be quite reasonable to expect the boat would mostly sit at the dock for a year, since we're not planning on leaving before that.. Even if we sailed every weeked (which is highly unrealistic - more like twice a month over the course of the year), that would still have it mostly sitting. The other three live down that way, so they'd be much more likely than I to go. In fact, assuming all goes as planned, I would likely be sailing on school boats, since I'm learning. -- Nom=de=Plume How many miles would the sailboat be moored from your residence? Even if you love sailing, the harsh reality is that you'll get more use from a power boat. Unless you are cruising full time, the cost of fuel is small in relation to the cost of your "lost" hours in moving the boat to a new cruising place. Once I realized this, I took the old 6.5 hp diesel out of my boat that only pushed her at 4.5 kts and replaced it with a 13 hp one that pushed her at over 6.3 kts. It doesn't sound like a big diff but it makes a huge difference in getting places. |
Cruising and reality
On 4/16/10 11:13 AM, Don White wrote:
wrote in message ... wrote in message ... I once met a couple who had bought a boat on Lake Michigan, sailed down the Miss. R and then across the gulf and then all over th Bahamas. They were on their way back aqnd had stopped in Apalachicola, FL and I asked how they had liked it. She had hated it. He had liked it but her dislike was enough. Another couple I know spent years re-building a boat to get ready to go cruising and then finally after 10 years of planning, set off. For some reason I still do not know, it din't work out and hey came back within 4 months. Another couple I know is working on their boat talking constantly about how they will take off as soon as they retire. What if it dosn't work out for them and they do not like it? That's a lot of wasted effort and years. Doesn't it make more sense to have a smaller boat you can afford with far fewer things to go wrong so you can afford to go NOW? A smaller boat you can afford allows you to arrange your work to allow more time for shorter coat hopping trips until you finally get some real time. I see too many big boats that sit at the dock rarely being sailed and we all know the saying that the amount of use a sailboat gets is inversely proportional to its size. I wonder how many stories there are of people who actually enjoyed it. There must be a few. :) I think you're right. It does make sense to have a boat you can afford. We're not looking at a megayacht, which I suppose if we went into hock, we could "afford" (the very broadest sense of the word). As I said, two of us are not really too concerned about "jobs" at this point. The other two are, and we're trying to accomodate everyone. I think it would be quite reasonable to expect the boat would mostly sit at the dock for a year, since we're not planning on leaving before that. Even if we sailed every weeked (which is highly unrealistic - more like twice a month over the course of the year), that would still have it mostly sitting. The other three live down that way, so they'd be much more likely than I to go. In fact, assuming all goes as planned, I would likely be sailing on school boats, since I'm learning. -- Nom=de=Plume How many miles would the sailboat be moored from your residence? Yes, *that* certainly can be a reason not to use the boat as often as you like. I doubt I'd be a candidate for cruising these days. I like boating, but for a day or for a day or two at a time. But that's just me. I know some "cruisers" who are really into it. But...if you buy a large boat without first having cruised, well, you're really buying a pig in a poke. -- http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym |
Cruising and reality
On Apr 16, 12:25*pm, wrote:
On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 08:07:20 -0500, Jim wrote: When they're not figuring out what yacht to lay a cool quarter million on, No offense Jim but a cool quarter mil is not going to buy a yacht. That is just a boat. Yachts go more like several mil.up to hundreds of mil. They might have a quarter mil boat swinging on davits. You just need a change of venue, around here a trashed out oyster boat carrying a 6 pack of Miller is a Yacht. |
Cruising and reality
On Apr 16, 10:31*am, Frogwatch wrote:
On Apr 16, 11:13*am, "Don White" wrote: "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "Frogwatch" wrote in message .... I once met a couple who had bought a boat on Lake Michigan, sailed down the Miss. R and then across the gulf and then all over th Bahamas. *They were on their way back aqnd had stopped in Apalachicola, FL and I asked how they had liked it. *She had hated it. *He had liked it but her dislike was enough. Another couple I know spent years re-building a boat to get ready to go cruising and then finally after 10 years of planning, set off. *For some reason I still do not know, it din't work out and hey came back within 4 months. Another couple I know is working on their boat talking constantly about how they will take off as soon as they retire. *What if it dosn't work out for them and they do not like it? *That's a lot of wasted effort and years. Doesn't it make more sense to have a smaller boat you can afford with far fewer things to go wrong so you can afford to go NOW? *A smaller boat you can afford allows you to arrange your work to allow more time for shorter coat hopping trips until you finally get some real time. I see too many big boats that sit at the dock rarely being sailed and we all know the saying that the amount of use a sailboat gets is inversely proportional to its size. I wonder how many stories there are of people who actually enjoyed it.. There must be a few. :) I think you're right. It does make sense to have a boat you can afford. We're not looking at a megayacht, which I suppose if we went into hock, we could "afford" (the very broadest sense of the word). As I said, two of us are not really too concerned about "jobs" at this point. The other two are, and we're trying to accomodate everyone. I think it would be quite reasonable to expect the boat would mostly sit at the dock for a year, since we're not planning on leaving before that. Even if we sailed every weeked (which is highly unrealistic - more like twice a month over the course of the year), that would still have it mostly sitting. The other three live down that way, so they'd be much more likely than I to go. In fact, assuming all goes as planned, I would likely be sailing on school boats, since I'm learning. -- Nom=de=Plume How many miles would the sailboat be moored from your residence? Even if you love sailing, the harsh reality is that you'll get more use from a power boat. *Unless you are cruising full time, the cost of fuel is small in relation to the cost of your "lost" hours in moving the boat to a new cruising place. Once I realized this, I took the old 6.5 hp diesel out of my boat that only pushed her at 4.5 kts and replaced it with a 13 hp one that pushed her at over 6.3 kts. *It doesn't sound like a big diff but it makes a huge difference in getting places.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - 6.5 hp diesel? What make? kubota? Yannmar? Lombardini? I'm surprised that 6.5 could push anything of that size. other than a small riding mower. |
Cruising and reality
wrote in message
... On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 08:07:20 -0500, Jim wrote: When they're not figuring out what yacht to lay a cool quarter million on, No offense Jim but a cool quarter mil is not going to buy a yacht. That is just a boat. Yachts go more like several mil.up to hundreds of mil. They might have a quarter mil boat swinging on davits. Jim is a troll and a rude jerk. I just ignore him. However, those wishing to contribute to our ability to afford a "yacht" should feel free to send the money. :) -- Nom=de=Plume |
Cruising and reality
"Frogwatch" wrote in message
... On Apr 16, 12:25 pm, wrote: On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 08:07:20 -0500, Jim wrote: When they're not figuring out what yacht to lay a cool quarter million on, No offense Jim but a cool quarter mil is not going to buy a yacht. That is just a boat. Yachts go more like several mil.up to hundreds of mil. They might have a quarter mil boat swinging on davits. You just need a change of venue, around here a trashed out oyster boat carrying a 6 pack of Miller is a Yacht. Heh.. -- Nom=de=Plume |
Cruising and reality
"Don White" wrote in message
... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "Frogwatch" wrote in message ... I once met a couple who had bought a boat on Lake Michigan, sailed down the Miss. R and then across the gulf and then all over th Bahamas. They were on their way back aqnd had stopped in Apalachicola, FL and I asked how they had liked it. She had hated it. He had liked it but her dislike was enough. Another couple I know spent years re-building a boat to get ready to go cruising and then finally after 10 years of planning, set off. For some reason I still do not know, it din't work out and hey came back within 4 months. Another couple I know is working on their boat talking constantly about how they will take off as soon as they retire. What if it dosn't work out for them and they do not like it? That's a lot of wasted effort and years. Doesn't it make more sense to have a smaller boat you can afford with far fewer things to go wrong so you can afford to go NOW? A smaller boat you can afford allows you to arrange your work to allow more time for shorter coat hopping trips until you finally get some real time. I see too many big boats that sit at the dock rarely being sailed and we all know the saying that the amount of use a sailboat gets is inversely proportional to its size. I wonder how many stories there are of people who actually enjoyed it. There must be a few. :) I think you're right. It does make sense to have a boat you can afford. We're not looking at a megayacht, which I suppose if we went into hock, we could "afford" (the very broadest sense of the word). As I said, two of us are not really too concerned about "jobs" at this point. The other two are, and we're trying to accomodate everyone. I think it would be quite reasonable to expect the boat would mostly sit at the dock for a year, since we're not planning on leaving before that. Even if we sailed every weeked (which is highly unrealistic - more like twice a month over the course of the year), that would still have it mostly sitting. The other three live down that way, so they'd be much more likely than I to go. In fact, assuming all goes as planned, I would likely be sailing on school boats, since I'm learning. -- Nom=de=Plume How many miles would the sailboat be moored from your residence? From me it's quite a ways... in a straight line it's probably over 150 miles? Something like that, but driving it's over 2.5 hours with no traffic. The others are much closer (under 30 miles). If I go down, it would be for multiple nights (or for multiple days in a class). I still have work planned into next year, so it's not like I can just move down there right now. -- Nom=de=Plume |
Cruising and reality
"Frogwatch" wrote in message
... On Apr 16, 11:13 am, "Don White" wrote: "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "Frogwatch" wrote in message ... I once met a couple who had bought a boat on Lake Michigan, sailed down the Miss. R and then across the gulf and then all over th Bahamas. They were on their way back aqnd had stopped in Apalachicola, FL and I asked how they had liked it. She had hated it. He had liked it but her dislike was enough. Another couple I know spent years re-building a boat to get ready to go cruising and then finally after 10 years of planning, set off. For some reason I still do not know, it din't work out and hey came back within 4 months. Another couple I know is working on their boat talking constantly about how they will take off as soon as they retire. What if it dosn't work out for them and they do not like it? That's a lot of wasted effort and years. Doesn't it make more sense to have a smaller boat you can afford with far fewer things to go wrong so you can afford to go NOW? A smaller boat you can afford allows you to arrange your work to allow more time for shorter coat hopping trips until you finally get some real time. I see too many big boats that sit at the dock rarely being sailed and we all know the saying that the amount of use a sailboat gets is inversely proportional to its size. I wonder how many stories there are of people who actually enjoyed it. There must be a few. :) I think you're right. It does make sense to have a boat you can afford. We're not looking at a megayacht, which I suppose if we went into hock, we could "afford" (the very broadest sense of the word). As I said, two of us are not really too concerned about "jobs" at this point. The other two are, and we're trying to accomodate everyone. I think it would be quite reasonable to expect the boat would mostly sit at the dock for a year, since we're not planning on leaving before that. Even if we sailed every weeked (which is highly unrealistic - more like twice a month over the course of the year), that would still have it mostly sitting. The other three live down that way, so they'd be much more likely than I to go. In fact, assuming all goes as planned, I would likely be sailing on school boats, since I'm learning. -- Nom=de=Plume How many miles would the sailboat be moored from your residence? Even if you love sailing, the harsh reality is that you'll get more use from a power boat. Unless you are cruising full time, the cost of fuel is small in relation to the cost of your "lost" hours in moving the boat to a new cruising place. Sorry... not interested in powerboats for cruising around. Wakeboarding maybe... Once I realized this, I took the old 6.5 hp diesel out of my boat that only pushed her at 4.5 kts and replaced it with a 13 hp one that pushed her at over 6.3 kts. It doesn't sound like a big diff but it makes a huge difference in getting places. But wouldn't a boat of the size I mentioned be powered with a decent engine? Seems like it would be, but I haven't really looked into it. -- Nom=de=Plume |
Cruising and reality
"hk" wrote in message
m... On 4/16/10 11:13 AM, Don White wrote: wrote in message ... wrote in message ... I once met a couple who had bought a boat on Lake Michigan, sailed down the Miss. R and then across the gulf and then all over th Bahamas. They were on their way back aqnd had stopped in Apalachicola, FL and I asked how they had liked it. She had hated it. He had liked it but her dislike was enough. Another couple I know spent years re-building a boat to get ready to go cruising and then finally after 10 years of planning, set off. For some reason I still do not know, it din't work out and hey came back within 4 months. Another couple I know is working on their boat talking constantly about how they will take off as soon as they retire. What if it dosn't work out for them and they do not like it? That's a lot of wasted effort and years. Doesn't it make more sense to have a smaller boat you can afford with far fewer things to go wrong so you can afford to go NOW? A smaller boat you can afford allows you to arrange your work to allow more time for shorter coat hopping trips until you finally get some real time. I see too many big boats that sit at the dock rarely being sailed and we all know the saying that the amount of use a sailboat gets is inversely proportional to its size. I wonder how many stories there are of people who actually enjoyed it. There must be a few. :) I think you're right. It does make sense to have a boat you can afford. We're not looking at a megayacht, which I suppose if we went into hock, we could "afford" (the very broadest sense of the word). As I said, two of us are not really too concerned about "jobs" at this point. The other two are, and we're trying to accomodate everyone. I think it would be quite reasonable to expect the boat would mostly sit at the dock for a year, since we're not planning on leaving before that. Even if we sailed every weeked (which is highly unrealistic - more like twice a month over the course of the year), that would still have it mostly sitting. The other three live down that way, so they'd be much more likely than I to go. In fact, assuming all goes as planned, I would likely be sailing on school boats, since I'm learning. -- Nom=de=Plume How many miles would the sailboat be moored from your residence? Yes, *that* certainly can be a reason not to use the boat as often as you like. I doubt I'd be a candidate for cruising these days. I like boating, but for a day or for a day or two at a time. But that's just me. I know some "cruisers" who are really into it. But...if you buy a large boat without first having cruised, well, you're really buying a pig in a poke. -- http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym Besides renting for a cruising vacation (like Sunsail or Moorings) how would one cruise on it before buying? I'm assuming you meant that... -- Nom=de=Plume |
Cruising and reality
On 4/16/10 1:25 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
wrote in message m... On 4/16/10 11:13 AM, Don White wrote: wrote in message ... wrote in message ... I once met a couple who had bought a boat on Lake Michigan, sailed down the Miss. R and then across the gulf and then all over th Bahamas. They were on their way back aqnd had stopped in Apalachicola, FL and I asked how they had liked it. She had hated it. He had liked it but her dislike was enough. Another couple I know spent years re-building a boat to get ready to go cruising and then finally after 10 years of planning, set off. For some reason I still do not know, it din't work out and hey came back within 4 months. Another couple I know is working on their boat talking constantly about how they will take off as soon as they retire. What if it dosn't work out for them and they do not like it? That's a lot of wasted effort and years. Doesn't it make more sense to have a smaller boat you can afford with far fewer things to go wrong so you can afford to go NOW? A smaller boat you can afford allows you to arrange your work to allow more time for shorter coat hopping trips until you finally get some real time. I see too many big boats that sit at the dock rarely being sailed and we all know the saying that the amount of use a sailboat gets is inversely proportional to its size. I wonder how many stories there are of people who actually enjoyed it. There must be a few. :) I think you're right. It does make sense to have a boat you can afford. We're not looking at a megayacht, which I suppose if we went into hock, we could "afford" (the very broadest sense of the word). As I said, two of us are not really too concerned about "jobs" at this point. The other two are, and we're trying to accomodate everyone. I think it would be quite reasonable to expect the boat would mostly sit at the dock for a year, since we're not planning on leaving before that. Even if we sailed every weeked (which is highly unrealistic - more like twice a month over the course of the year), that would still have it mostly sitting. The other three live down that way, so they'd be much more likely than I to go. In fact, assuming all goes as planned, I would likely be sailing on school boats, since I'm learning. -- Nom=de=Plume How many miles would the sailboat be moored from your residence? Yes, *that* certainly can be a reason not to use the boat as often as you like. I doubt I'd be a candidate for cruising these days. I like boating, but for a day or for a day or two at a time. But that's just me. I know some "cruisers" who are really into it. But...if you buy a large boat without first having cruised, well, you're really buying a pig in a poke. -- http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym Besides renting for a cruising vacation (like Sunsail or Moorings) how would one cruise on it before buying? I'm assuming you meant that... By chartering or by being a guest... -- http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym |
Cruising and reality
"Frogwatch" wrote in message ... On Apr 16, 12:25 pm, wrote: On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 08:07:20 -0500, Jim wrote: When they're not figuring out what yacht to lay a cool quarter million on, No offense Jim but a cool quarter mil is not going to buy a yacht. That is just a boat. Yachts go more like several mil.up to hundreds of mil. They might have a quarter mil boat swinging on davits. You just need a change of venue, around here a trashed out oyster boat carrying a 6 pack of Miller is a Yacht. ----------- Long as they enjoy it, it's the right boat! |
Cruising and reality
On Apr 16, 1:53*pm, wrote:
On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 09:29:59 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch wrote: On Apr 16, 12:25*pm, wrote: On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 08:07:20 -0500, Jim wrote: When they're not figuring out what yacht to lay a cool quarter million on, No offense Jim but a cool quarter mil is not going to buy a yacht. That is just a boat. Yachts go more like several mil.up to hundreds of mil. They might have a quarter mil boat swinging on davits. You just need a change of venue, around here a trashed out oyster boat carrying a 6 pack of Miller is a Yacht. Does PBR count, I may have a yacht after all you mean that stuff is still available? I rememebr back in the 70's when they and Busch (Budweiser) were competing for #1 spot, then all of a sudden PBR closed down the Peoria IL plant then they just sort of disapeared. At least under that lable. |
Cruising and reality
On 4/16/10 3:15 PM, Tim wrote:
On Apr 16, 1:53 pm, wrote: On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 09:29:59 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch wrote: On Apr 16, 12:25 pm, wrote: On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 08:07:20 -0500, wrote: When they're not figuring out what yacht to lay a cool quarter million on, No offense Jim but a cool quarter mil is not going to buy a yacht. That is just a boat. Yachts go more like several mil.up to hundreds of mil. They might have a quarter mil boat swinging on davits. You just need a change of venue, around here a trashed out oyster boat carrying a 6 pack of Miller is a Yacht. Does PBR count, I may have a yacht after all you mean that stuff is still available? I rememebr back in the 70's when they and Busch (Budweiser) were competing for #1 spot, then all of a sudden PBR closed down the Peoria IL plant then they just sort of disapeared. At least under that lable. Yep, and certainly better than Bud Lite and Miller Lite, although still just another ****y American brew. I spent a college summer working on the loading dock of Hulls Export Beer in New Haven. I guess it was called Export Beer because no one in New Haven would drink it. No one except us loading dock workers. :) -- http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym |
Cruising and reality
Frogwatch wrote:
On Apr 16, 12:25 pm, wrote: On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 08:07:20 -0500, Jim wrote: When they're not figuring out what yacht to lay a cool quarter million on, No offense Jim but a cool quarter mil is not going to buy a yacht. That is just a boat. Yachts go more like several mil.up to hundreds of mil. They might have a quarter mil boat swinging on davits. You just need a change of venue, around here a trashed out oyster boat carrying a 6 pack of Miller is a Yacht. Yep, yacht means different thing to different folks. Only thing locked down about "yacht" is vessel for pleasure. But there's a difference between a $1,000 boat and quarter million dollar boat. $249,000 extra thrown in the hole in the water. Libs should be giving that money to the poor, or for supporting their "heartfelt" causes, not squandering it on themselves for frivolities. It just gets me how some libs talk all poor and "caring" when not bragging about their stock portfolios or riding in their limos. Course it's all BS coming from deplum anyway. These anonymous folks can't be believed for anything. And that includes Loogy. Why is these libs won't use their names? Harry don't count. He's not a lib, just a union thug. Worse, because at least the normal limp-wristed lib don't go out leg-breaking with a baseball bat. Jim - My daddy told me that actions speak louder than words, and never trust somebody selling goods from the trunk of a Cadillac limo. |
Cruising and reality
On Apr 16, 3:59*pm, wrote:
On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 12:15:28 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: Does PBR count, I may have a yacht after all you mean that stuff is still available? I rememebr back in the 70's when they and Busch (Budweiser) were competing for #1 spot, then all of a sudden PBR closed down the Peoria IL plant then they just sort of disapeared. At least under that lable. Absolutely but it isn't the "cheap beer" now Sailboat engines, normally called "Auxiliary Engines" are sized to get the boat to roughly 5 kts in calm water to enable her to get in and out of port. Sailboats tend to have easily pushed hulls and need much smaller engines than power boats like Trawlers. They are also displacement hulls so will never go very fast anyway and the feeling is that more power is wasted. So, the 6.5 hp Yanmar 1 cylinder diesel (Model 1GM) did very well and I even used ti to cruise all over the eastern Gulf of Mexico. One Memorial day weekend, I motored a distance of 250 miles from near Naples, FL back to Near St. Marks, FL with no wind at all and only burned 12 gallons of diesel. However, getting caught in 2 thunderstorms where that engine seemed far too small to keep her bow pointed into the wind convinced me I needed a larger engine so I bought a used Yanmar 2GM (2 cylinder 13 hp) and installed it. This significantly increased my top speed and power in nasty conditions. She burns about 1/2 gal/hr at 5.5 kts and maybe .7 gal/hr at 6.5 kts. Sailboat diesels cost nearly as much as or more than outboards do. I think you can still buy the Yanmar 1gm new for $2500 but a new 2GM will cost about $5000, installation will be extra. My used engine was taken out of a 30' racing boat because the owner wanted to use a tiny trolling motor to get out of his slip to save weight for light wind. I got it for $2000 and installed it myself. |
Cruising and reality
"hk" wrote in message
... On 4/16/10 1:25 PM, nom=de=plume wrote: wrote in message m... On 4/16/10 11:13 AM, Don White wrote: wrote in message ... wrote in message ... I once met a couple who had bought a boat on Lake Michigan, sailed down the Miss. R and then across the gulf and then all over th Bahamas. They were on their way back aqnd had stopped in Apalachicola, FL and I asked how they had liked it. She had hated it. He had liked it but her dislike was enough. Another couple I know spent years re-building a boat to get ready to go cruising and then finally after 10 years of planning, set off. For some reason I still do not know, it din't work out and hey came back within 4 months. Another couple I know is working on their boat talking constantly about how they will take off as soon as they retire. What if it dosn't work out for them and they do not like it? That's a lot of wasted effort and years. Doesn't it make more sense to have a smaller boat you can afford with far fewer things to go wrong so you can afford to go NOW? A smaller boat you can afford allows you to arrange your work to allow more time for shorter coat hopping trips until you finally get some real time. I see too many big boats that sit at the dock rarely being sailed and we all know the saying that the amount of use a sailboat gets is inversely proportional to its size. I wonder how many stories there are of people who actually enjoyed it. There must be a few. :) I think you're right. It does make sense to have a boat you can afford. We're not looking at a megayacht, which I suppose if we went into hock, we could "afford" (the very broadest sense of the word). As I said, two of us are not really too concerned about "jobs" at this point. The other two are, and we're trying to accomodate everyone. I think it would be quite reasonable to expect the boat would mostly sit at the dock for a year, since we're not planning on leaving before that. Even if we sailed every weeked (which is highly unrealistic - more like twice a month over the course of the year), that would still have it mostly sitting. The other three live down that way, so they'd be much more likely than I to go. In fact, assuming all goes as planned, I would likely be sailing on school boats, since I'm learning. -- Nom=de=Plume How many miles would the sailboat be moored from your residence? Yes, *that* certainly can be a reason not to use the boat as often as you like. I doubt I'd be a candidate for cruising these days. I like boating, but for a day or for a day or two at a time. But that's just me. I know some "cruisers" who are really into it. But...if you buy a large boat without first having cruised, well, you're really buying a pig in a poke. -- http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym Besides renting for a cruising vacation (like Sunsail or Moorings) how would one cruise on it before buying? I'm assuming you meant that... By chartering or by being a guest... -- http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym I like the guest idea... did that with friends in Santa Cruz, but only for a weekend. I think we're going to do some sort of cruise in Baja via a rental company. -- Nom=de=Plume |
Cruising and reality
On Apr 16, 3:19*pm, Frogwatch wrote:
On Apr 16, 3:59*pm, wrote: On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 12:15:28 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: Does PBR count, I may have a yacht after all you mean that stuff is still available? I rememebr back in the 70's when they and Busch (Budweiser) were competing for #1 spot, then all of a sudden PBR closed down the Peoria IL plant then they just sort of disapeared. At least under that lable. Absolutely but it isn't the "cheap beer" now Sailboat engines, normally called "Auxiliary Engines" are sized to get the boat to roughly 5 kts in calm water to enable her to get in and out of port. *Sailboats tend to have easily pushed hulls and need much smaller engines than power boats like Trawlers. *They are also displacement hulls so will never go very fast anyway and the feeling is that more power is wasted. So, the 6.5 hp Yanmar 1 cylinder diesel (Model 1GM) did very well and I even used ti to cruise all over the eastern Gulf of Mexico. *One Memorial day weekend, I motored a distance of 250 miles from near Naples, FL back to Near St. Marks, FL with no wind at all and only burned 12 gallons of diesel. However, getting caught in 2 thunderstorms where that engine seemed far too small to keep her bow pointed into the wind convinced me I needed a larger engine so I bought a used Yanmar 2GM (2 cylinder 13 hp) and installed it. *This significantly increased my top speed and power in nasty conditions. *She burns about 1/2 gal/hr at 5.5 kts and maybe .7 gal/hr at 6.5 kts. Sailboat diesels cost nearly as much as or more than outboards do. *I think you can still buy the Yanmar 1gm new for $2500 but a new 2GM will cost about $5000, installation will be extra. *My used engine was taken out of a 30' racing boat because the owner wanted to use a tiny trolling motor to get out of his slip to save weight for light wind. I got it for $2000 and installed it myself. It 's interesting that you explained that. I've posted about something in the past,t hat over at lake carlyle, there's some neat sail boats a couple 35'rs too. And most have no sails. But on weekends you'll see people loading up on fri. night, and motoring their way out into the lake, and stay out there till Sunday night. Next weekend, do it again! Some with kicker engines and some totally inboard, and not moving fast, but moving steady. I suppose you don't have to sail a sail boat. |
Cruising and reality
On Apr 16, 3:31*pm, Tim wrote:
On Apr 16, 3:19*pm, Frogwatch wrote: On Apr 16, 3:59*pm, wrote: On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 12:15:28 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: Does PBR count, I may have a yacht after all you mean that stuff is still available? I rememebr back in the 70's when they and Busch (Budweiser) were competing for #1 spot, then all of a sudden PBR closed down the Peoria IL plant then they just sort of disapeared. At least under that lable. Absolutely but it isn't the "cheap beer" now Sailboat engines, normally called "Auxiliary Engines" are sized to get the boat to roughly 5 kts in calm water to enable her to get in and out of port. *Sailboats tend to have easily pushed hulls and need much smaller engines than power boats like Trawlers. *They are also displacement hulls so will never go very fast anyway and the feeling is that more power is wasted. So, the 6.5 hp Yanmar 1 cylinder diesel (Model 1GM) did very well and I even used ti to cruise all over the eastern Gulf of Mexico. *One Memorial day weekend, I motored a distance of 250 miles from near Naples, FL back to Near St. Marks, FL with no wind at all and only burned 12 gallons of diesel. However, getting caught in 2 thunderstorms where that engine seemed far too small to keep her bow pointed into the wind convinced me I needed a larger engine so I bought a used Yanmar 2GM (2 cylinder 13 hp) and installed it. *This significantly increased my top speed and power in nasty conditions. *She burns about 1/2 gal/hr at 5.5 kts and maybe .7 gal/hr at 6.5 kts. Sailboat diesels cost nearly as much as or more than outboards do. *I think you can still buy the Yanmar 1gm new for $2500 but a new 2GM will cost about $5000, installation will be extra. *My used engine was taken out of a 30' racing boat because the owner wanted to use a tiny trolling motor to get out of his slip to save weight for light wind. I got it for $2000 and installed it myself. It 's interesting that you explained that. I've posted about something in the past,t hat over at lake carlyle, there's some neat sail boats *a couple 35'rs too. And most have no sails. But on weekends you'll see people loading up on fri. night, and motoring their way out into the lake, and stay out there till Sunday night. Next weekend, do it again! *Some with kicker engines and some totally inboard, and not moving fast, but moving steady. I suppose you don't have to sail a sail boat. The reality is that most sailing cruising people spend over 50% of their time motoring. This is why I am now a fan of the Troller/sail boat where an engine is the primary propulsion and the sails are secondary. This concept is best shown in the "Diesel Duck" line by Buller. |
Cruising and reality
Tim wrote:
On Apr 16, 10:31 am, wrote: On Apr 16, 11:13 am, "Don wrote: wrote in message ... wrote in message .... I once met a couple who had bought a boat on Lake Michigan, sailed down the Miss. R and then across the gulf and then all over th Bahamas. They were on their way back aqnd had stopped in Apalachicola, FL and I asked how they had liked it. She had hated it. He had liked it but her dislike was enough. Another couple I know spent years re-building a boat to get ready to go cruising and then finally after 10 years of planning, set off. For some reason I still do not know, it din't work out and hey came back within 4 months. Another couple I know is working on their boat talking constantly about how they will take off as soon as they retire. What if it dosn't work out for them and they do not like it? That's a lot of wasted effort and years. Doesn't it make more sense to have a smaller boat you can afford with far fewer things to go wrong so you can afford to go NOW? A smaller boat you can afford allows you to arrange your work to allow more time for shorter coat hopping trips until you finally get some real time. I see too many big boats that sit at the dock rarely being sailed and we all know the saying that the amount of use a sailboat gets is inversely proportional to its size. I wonder how many stories there are of people who actually enjoyed it.. There must be a few. :) I think you're right. It does make sense to have a boat you can afford. We're not looking at a megayacht, which I suppose if we went into hock, we could "afford" (the very broadest sense of the word). As I said, two of us are not really too concerned about "jobs" at this point. The other two are, and we're trying to accomodate everyone. I think it would be quite reasonable to expect the boat would mostly sit at the dock for a year, since we're not planning on leaving before that. Even if we sailed every weeked (which is highly unrealistic - more like twice a month over the course of the year), that would still have it mostly sitting. The other three live down that way, so they'd be much more likely than I to go. In fact, assuming all goes as planned, I would likely be sailing on school boats, since I'm learning. -- Nom=de=Plume How many miles would the sailboat be moored from your residence? Even if you love sailing, the harsh reality is that you'll get more use from a power boat. Unless you are cruising full time, the cost of fuel is small in relation to the cost of your "lost" hours in moving the boat to a new cruising place. Once I realized this, I took the old 6.5 hp diesel out of my boat that only pushed her at 4.5 kts and replaced it with a 13 hp one that pushed her at over 6.3 kts. It doesn't sound like a big diff but it makes a huge difference in getting places.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - 6.5 hp diesel? What make? kubota? Yannmar? Lombardini? I'm surprised that 6.5 could push anything of that size. other than a small riding mower. They have a lot of torque and a rather large prop. |
Cruising and reality
nom=de=plume wrote:
But wouldn't a boat of the size I mentioned be powered with a decent engine? Seems like it would be, but I haven't really looked into it. You have a _lot_ of homework ahead of you. |
Cruising and reality
On Apr 16, 6:59*pm, Larry wrote:
nom=de=plume wrote: But wouldn't a boat of the size I mentioned be powered with a decent engine? Seems like it would be, but I haven't really looked into it. You have a _lot_ of homework ahead of you. Getting the right prop is a major deal. Major controversy over fixed 2 blade fixed or 3 blade fixed because the 3 blade fixed hurts sailing performance about 1/2 kt but the 3 blade gives better motoring performance. There is a company that makes an oversize plastic composite prop called PerfectPitch that makes up for this but they are sorta unknown. Then, there are the folding props.................. |
Cruising and reality
"Frogwatch" wrote in message
... On Apr 16, 6:59 pm, Larry wrote: nom=de=plume wrote: But wouldn't a boat of the size I mentioned be powered with a decent engine? Seems like it would be, but I haven't really looked into it. You have a _lot_ of homework ahead of you. Getting the right prop is a major deal. Major controversy over fixed 2 blade fixed or 3 blade fixed because the 3 blade fixed hurts sailing performance about 1/2 kt but the 3 blade gives better motoring performance. There is a company that makes an oversize plastic composite prop called PerfectPitch that makes up for this but they are sorta unknown. Then, there are the folding props.................. Larry is a jerk. In any case, I ask again... wouldn't a newer boat in the size I mentioned from a reputable US manufacturer be powered properly? -- Nom=de=Plume |
Cruising and reality
wrote in message
... On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 21:01:09 -0700, "nom=de=plume" wrote: .. wouldn't a newer boat in the size I mentioned from a reputable US manufacturer be powered properly? This is what Froggy is saying "properly" depends on which side of the compromise you want to come down on. You can have a fast power boat with sails or a fast sailboat with a motor but both at the same time is hard to do. My understanding is that the engine on a cruising type boat would be able to bring the boat to "hull" speed. You can't really go faster than that, so I suppose the appropriate engine would be one that could do that (or nearly so)? 1.34 x sq. rt of water line? So, assuming there's overhang on a 42' boat, say the water line is 40' the max speed would be about 8.5. Of course, if it were not pushing all the water, skimming, then you could go faster. -- Nom=de=Plume |
Cruising and reality
In article ,
says... wrote in message ... On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 21:01:09 -0700, "nom=de=plume" wrote: .. wouldn't a newer boat in the size I mentioned from a reputable US manufacturer be powered properly? This is what Froggy is saying "properly" depends on which side of the compromise you want to come down on. You can have a fast power boat with sails or a fast sailboat with a motor but both at the same time is hard to do. My understanding is that the engine on a cruising type boat would be able to bring the boat to "hull" speed. You can't really go faster than that, so I suppose the appropriate engine would be one that could do that (or nearly so)? 1.34 x sq. rt of water line? So, assuming there's overhang on a 42' boat, say the water line is 40' the max speed would be about 8.5. Of course, if it were not pushing all the water, skimming, then you could go faster. They call "skimming" "planing" here. And you are correct. But many hull types are incapable of planing. Peter |
Cruising and reality
On Apr 17, 8:05*am, "Peter (Yes, that one)"
wrote: In article , says... wrote in message .. . On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 21:01:09 -0700, "nom=de=plume" wrote: .. wouldn't a newer boat in the size I mentioned from a reputable US manufacturer be powered properly? This is what Froggy is saying "properly" depends on which side of the compromise you want to come down on. You can have a fast power boat with sails or a fast sailboat with a motor but both at the same time is hard to do. My understanding is that the engine on a cruising type boat would be able to bring the boat to "hull" speed. You can't really go faster than that, so I suppose the appropriate engine would be one that could do that (or nearly so)? 1.34 x sq. rt of water line? So, assuming there's overhang on a 42' boat, say the water line is 40' the max speed would be about 8.5. Of course, if it were not pushing all the water, skimming, then you could go faster. |
Cruising and reality
"Frogwatch" wrote in message
... On Apr 17, 8:05 am, "Peter (Yes, that one)" wrote: In article , says... wrote in message .. . On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 21:01:09 -0700, "nom=de=plume" wrote: .. wouldn't a newer boat in the size I mentioned from a reputable US manufacturer be powered properly? This is what Froggy is saying "properly" depends on which side of the compromise you want to come down on. You can have a fast power boat with sails or a fast sailboat with a motor but both at the same time is hard to do. My understanding is that the engine on a cruising type boat would be able to bring the boat to "hull" speed. You can't really go faster than that, so I suppose the appropriate engine would be one that could do that (or nearly so)? 1.34 x sq. rt of water line? So, assuming there's overhang on a 42' boat, say the water line is 40' the max speed would be about 8.5. Of course, if it were not pushing all the water, skimming, then you could go faster. They call "skimming" "planing" here. And you are correct. But many hull types are incapable of planing. Peter Displacement hull sailboats cannot plane which is why they need so little power. Manufacturers generally use an engine just big enough to get to hull speed. I do not think that is enough for a real cruising boat because a real cruising boat will spend far more of its time under power than people realize AND because sometimes it will be used in conditions when a lot of power is needed for safety. For the size boat Nom is considering, a 4 cylinder diesel would be good and they normally have sufficient power. The problems come in with smaller boats when it is a compromise between a 1 or 2 cylinder or a slighter larger boat betwen a 2 and 3 cylinder. She prob does not need to worry about the engine. Reply: I would never worry about the engine. That's someone else's area. -- Nom=de=Plume |
Cruising and reality
On Apr 17, 10:23*am, "nom=de=plume" wrote:
"Frogwatch" wrote in message ... On Apr 17, 8:05 am, "Peter (Yes, that one)" wrote: In article , says... wrote in message .. . On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 21:01:09 -0700, "nom=de=plume" wrote: .. wouldn't a newer boat in the size I mentioned from a reputable US manufacturer be powered properly? This is what Froggy is saying "properly" depends on which side of the compromise you want to come down on. You can have a fast power boat with sails or a fast sailboat with a motor but both at the same time is hard to do. My understanding is that the engine on a cruising type boat would be able to bring the boat to "hull" speed. You can't really go faster than that, so I suppose the appropriate engine would be one that could do that (or nearly so)? 1.34 x sq. rt of water line? So, assuming there's overhang on a 42' boat, say the water line is 40' the max speed would be about 8.5. Of course, if it were not pushing all the water, skimming, then you could go faster. They call "skimming" "planing" here. And you are correct. But many hull types are incapable of planing. Peter Displacement hull sailboats cannot plane which is why they need so little power. *Manufacturers generally use an engine just big enough to get to hull speed. *I do not think that is enough for a real cruising boat because a real cruising boat will spend far more of its time under power than people realize AND because sometimes it will be used in conditions when a lot of power is needed for safety. *For the size boat Nom is considering, a 4 cylinder diesel would be good and they normally have sufficient power. *The problems come in with smaller boats when it is a compromise between a 1 or 2 cylinder or a slighter larger boat betwen a 2 and 3 cylinder. *She prob does not need to worry about the engine. Reply: I would never worry about the engine. That's someone else's area. -- Nom=de=Plume The smell of diesel, the most masculine cologne. |
Cruising and reality
"Frogwatch" wrote in message
... On Apr 17, 10:23 am, "nom=de=plume" wrote: "Frogwatch" wrote in message ... On Apr 17, 8:05 am, "Peter (Yes, that one)" wrote: In article , says... wrote in message .. . On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 21:01:09 -0700, "nom=de=plume" wrote: .. wouldn't a newer boat in the size I mentioned from a reputable US manufacturer be powered properly? This is what Froggy is saying "properly" depends on which side of the compromise you want to come down on. You can have a fast power boat with sails or a fast sailboat with a motor but both at the same time is hard to do. My understanding is that the engine on a cruising type boat would be able to bring the boat to "hull" speed. You can't really go faster than that, so I suppose the appropriate engine would be one that could do that (or nearly so)? 1.34 x sq. rt of water line? So, assuming there's overhang on a 42' boat, say the water line is 40' the max speed would be about 8.5. Of course, if it were not pushing all the water, skimming, then you could go faster. They call "skimming" "planing" here. And you are correct. But many hull types are incapable of planing. Peter Displacement hull sailboats cannot plane which is why they need so little power. Manufacturers generally use an engine just big enough to get to hull speed. I do not think that is enough for a real cruising boat because a real cruising boat will spend far more of its time under power than people realize AND because sometimes it will be used in conditions when a lot of power is needed for safety. For the size boat Nom is considering, a 4 cylinder diesel would be good and they normally have sufficient power. The problems come in with smaller boats when it is a compromise between a 1 or 2 cylinder or a slighter larger boat betwen a 2 and 3 cylinder. She prob does not need to worry about the engine. Reply: I would never worry about the engine. That's someone else's area. -- Nom=de=Plume The smell of diesel, the most masculine cologne. NOT blech. -- Nom=de=Plume |
Cruising and reality
nom=de=plume wrote:
wrote in message ... On Apr 16, 6:59 pm, wrote: nom=de=plume wrote: But wouldn't a boat of the size I mentioned be powered with a decent engine? Seems like it would be, but I haven't really looked into it. You have a _lot_ of homework ahead of you. Getting the right prop is a major deal. Major controversy over fixed 2 blade fixed or 3 blade fixed because the 3 blade fixed hurts sailing performance about 1/2 kt but the 3 blade gives better motoring performance. There is a company that makes an oversize plastic composite prop called PerfectPitch that makes up for this but they are sorta unknown. Then, there are the folding props.................. Larry is a jerk. In any case, I ask again... wouldn't a newer boat in the size I mentioned from a reputable US manufacturer be powered properly? I'm not a jerk. You are throwing around all of this information and misinformation and you even have a budget attached to it. You are also asking questions that are rather basic. First it was a $2K Hobie and now it's a $300K sailing cruiser. Yes, you have a lot of homework to do. That is a very fair statement. |
Cruising and reality
nom=de=plume wrote:
wrote in message ... On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 21:01:09 -0700, "nom=de=plume" wrote: .. wouldn't a newer boat in the size I mentioned from a reputable US manufacturer be powered properly? This is what Froggy is saying "properly" depends on which side of the compromise you want to come down on. You can have a fast power boat with sails or a fast sailboat with a motor but both at the same time is hard to do. My understanding is that the engine on a cruising type boat would be able to bring the boat to "hull" speed. You can't really go faster than that, so I suppose the appropriate engine would be one that could do that (or nearly so)? 1.34 x sq. rt of water line? So, assuming there's overhang on a 42' boat, say the water line is 40' the max speed would be about 8.5. Of course, if it were not pushing all the water, skimming, then you could go faster. It's not that simple. Size is one thing. Then there is displacement, hull design, load distribution, etc. Even those factors don't limit speed. I really hope this isn't a troll or I'm wasting my time... Imagine a cruise ship. They have displacement hulls. They don't "skim" or plane (the correct term). Their speed is not limited solely by hull design. If they add more HP, the ship will move faster. You are looking at a sailboat, right? Why all of this interest in speed from the diesel? |
Cruising and reality
nom=de=plume wrote:
wrote in message ... On Apr 17, 8:05 am, "Peter (Yes, that wrote: In , says... wrote in message ... On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 21:01:09 -0700, "nom=de=plume" wrote: .. wouldn't a newer boat in the size I mentioned from a reputable US manufacturer be powered properly? This is what Froggy is saying "properly" depends on which side of the compromise you want to come down on. You can have a fast power boat with sails or a fast sailboat with a motor but both at the same time is hard to do. My understanding is that the engine on a cruising type boat would be able to bring the boat to "hull" speed. You can't really go faster than that, so I suppose the appropriate engine would be one that could do that (or nearly so)? 1.34 x sq. rt of water line? So, assuming there's overhang on a 42' boat, say the water line is 40' the max speed would be about 8.5. Of course, if it were not pushing all the water, skimming, then you could go faster. They call "skimming" "planing" here. And you are correct. But many hull types are incapable of planing. Peter Displacement hull sailboats cannot plane which is why they need so little power. Manufacturers generally use an engine just big enough to get to hull speed. I do not think that is enough for a real cruising boat because a real cruising boat will spend far more of its time under power than people realize AND because sometimes it will be used in conditions when a lot of power is needed for safety. For the size boat Nom is considering, a 4 cylinder diesel would be good and they normally have sufficient power. The problems come in with smaller boats when it is a compromise between a 1 or 2 cylinder or a slighter larger boat betwen a 2 and 3 cylinder. She prob does not need to worry about the engine. Reply: I would never worry about the engine. That's someone else's area. Yet you are dwelling on it here. |
Cruising and reality
On 17/04/2010 6:06 PM, Larry wrote:
nom=de=plume wrote: wrote in message ... On Apr 16, 6:59 pm, wrote: nom=de=plume wrote: But wouldn't a boat of the size I mentioned be powered with a decent engine? Seems like it would be, but I haven't really looked into it. You have a _lot_ of homework ahead of you. Getting the right prop is a major deal. Major controversy over fixed 2 blade fixed or 3 blade fixed because the 3 blade fixed hurts sailing performance about 1/2 kt but the 3 blade gives better motoring performance. There is a company that makes an oversize plastic composite prop called PerfectPitch that makes up for this but they are sorta unknown. Then, there are the folding props.................. Larry is a jerk. In any case, I ask again... wouldn't a newer boat in the size I mentioned from a reputable US manufacturer be powered properly? I'm not a jerk. You are throwing around all of this information and misinformation and you even have a budget attached to it. You are also asking questions that are rather basic. First it was a $2K Hobie and now it's a $300K sailing cruiser. Yes, you have a lot of homework to do. That is a very fair statement. Forgive de-fumer, she hasn't had it in awhile. -- Time to ask ask, is our government serving us or are we serving the government? |
Cruising and reality
"Larry" wrote in message ... nom=de=plume wrote: wrote in message ... On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 21:01:09 -0700, "nom=de=plume" wrote: .. wouldn't a newer boat in the size I mentioned from a reputable US manufacturer be powered properly? This is what Froggy is saying "properly" depends on which side of the compromise you want to come down on. You can have a fast power boat with sails or a fast sailboat with a motor but both at the same time is hard to do. My understanding is that the engine on a cruising type boat would be able to bring the boat to "hull" speed. You can't really go faster than that, so I suppose the appropriate engine would be one that could do that (or nearly so)? 1.34 x sq. rt of water line? So, assuming there's overhang on a 42' boat, say the water line is 40' the max speed would be about 8.5. Of course, if it were not pushing all the water, skimming, then you could go faster. It's not that simple. Size is one thing. Then there is displacement, hull design, load distribution, etc. Even those factors don't limit speed. I really hope this isn't a troll or I'm wasting my time... Imagine a cruise ship. They have displacement hulls. They don't "skim" or plane (the correct term). Their speed is not limited solely by hull design. If they add more HP, the ship will move faster. You are looking at a sailboat, right? Why all of this interest in speed from the diesel? Cruise ships go slower than hull speed. But hull speed is pretty high on a 1000' long ship. |
Cruising and reality
wrote in message
... On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 16:18:28 -0700, "nom=de=plume" wrote: The smell of diesel, the most masculine cologne. NOT blech. -- You may be too young to remember the 70s when guys would spritz a little gasoline behind their ear in hopes a girl would think you worked in a gas station. Good grief... did any of them live? -- Nom=de=Plume |
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