Guv'mint Motors Quality Control
 

Forbes says that 6 of the 7 worst new cars are being made by GM and
Chrysler, the same level of quality we can expect from ObamaCare.
You're going to get an ObamaClunker for health care with treatment
decided by bureaucrats on the basis of lowest cost. Good Job Dims.

Guv'mint Motors Quality Control
 

On 4/12/10 10:28 AM, Frogwatch wrote:
Forbes says that 6 of the 7 worst new cars are being made by GM and
Chrysler, the same level of quality we can expect from ObamaCare.
You're going to get an ObamaClunker for health care with treatment
decided by bureaucrats on the basis of lowest cost. Good Job Dims.


No wonder your business is failing; the CEO is insane. GM and Chrysler
management ensured their companies made crap cars before the government
infusions...and so did Ford's management.

--
Conservatives - just pretend Obama's health care legislation is another
unnecessary war and you'll feel better about it.

Guv'mint Motors Quality Control
 

On Apr 12, 10:28*am, Frogwatch wrote:
Forbes says that 6 of the 7 worst new cars are being made by GM and
Chrysler, the same level of quality we can expect from ObamaCare.
You're going to get an ObamaClunker for health care with treatment
decided by bureaucrats on the basis of lowest cost. *Good Job Dims.

Ford deserved kudos not only because they didn't take any fed money,
but also because their quality is now better than the rest, including
Toyota.

Meanwhile GM posted a 4.3 billion dollar loss for the second half of
2009. That butt-ugly Camaro is not going to save them.

Guv'mint Motors Quality Control
 

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 08:14:33 -0700 (PDT), Jack wrote:

On Apr 12, 10:28*am, Frogwatch wrote:
Forbes says that 6 of the 7 worst new cars are being made by GM and
Chrysler, the same level of quality we can expect from ObamaCare.
You're going to get an ObamaClunker for health care with treatment
decided by bureaucrats on the basis of lowest cost. *Good Job Dims.

Ford deserved kudos not only because they didn't take any fed money,
but also because their quality is now better than the rest, including
Toyota.

Meanwhile GM posted a 4.3 billion dollar loss for the second half of
2009. That butt-ugly Camaro is not going to save them.

My Dutch friend, a very liberal guy, commented that the European news is talking
about how much the US news is coming out against Toyota...with little or no
mention of the other car makers' recalls. They attribute it to the power of the
UAW and the attitude of the American press.

Guv'mint Motors Quality Control
 

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 07:28:58 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

Forbes says that 6 of the 7 worst new cars are being made by GM and
Chrysler, the same level of quality we can expect from ObamaCare.
You're going to get an ObamaClunker for health care with treatment
decided by bureaucrats on the basis of lowest cost. Good Job Dims.

Union made with the help of bad management. What a recipe for
disaster.

Guv'mint Motors Quality Control
 

On 4/12/10 11:18 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 07:28:58 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

Forbes says that 6 of the 7 worst new cars are being made by GM and
Chrysler, the same level of quality we can expect from ObamaCare.
You're going to get an ObamaClunker for health care with treatment
decided by bureaucrats on the basis of lowest cost. Good Job Dims.

Union made with the help of bad management. What a recipe for
disaster.


Your naivete is boundless. German autoworkers, Japanese autoworkers,
Spanish autoworkers, in fact, autoworkers in most democracies are
unionized. Even Ferrari autoworkers are unionized. *If* GM and Chrysler
are making "substandard" cars, it is entirely the fault of management.


--
http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym

Guv'mint Motors Quality Control
 

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 11:28:34 -0400, hk
wrote:

autoworkers in most democracies are
unionized. Even Ferrari autoworkers are unionized. *If* GM and Chrysler
are making "substandard" cars, it is entirely the fault of management.

I would agree that there are some unions that assist with, and
encourage, good quality. The UAW has never impressed me that way.
Whether or not that is ultimately the fault of management is certainly
arguable. What is perfectly clear is that the UAW has an unblemished
track record for opposing the modernization of work rules and other
improvements in productivity.

Guv'mint Motors Quality Control
 

On Apr 12, 10:34*am, hk wrote:
On 4/12/10 10:28 AM, Frogwatch wrote:

Forbes says that 6 of the 7 worst new cars are being made by GM and
Chrysler, the same level of quality we can expect from ObamaCare.
You're going to get an ObamaClunker for health care with treatment
decided by bureaucrats on the basis of lowest cost. *Good Job Dims.

No wonder your business is failing; the CEO is insane. GM and Chrysler
management ensured their companies made crap cars before the government
infusions...and so did Ford's management.


Where did you get the idea that his business is failing?

Guv'mint Motors Quality Control
 

On Apr 12, 11:17*am, John H wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 08:14:33 -0700 (PDT), Jack wrote:
On Apr 12, 10:28*am, Frogwatch wrote:
Forbes says that 6 of the 7 worst new cars are being made by GM and
Chrysler, the same level of quality we can expect from ObamaCare.
You're going to get an ObamaClunker for health care with treatment
decided by bureaucrats on the basis of lowest cost. *Good Job Dims.

Ford deserved kudos not only because they didn't take any fed money,
but also because their quality is now better than the rest, including
Toyota.

Meanwhile GM posted a 4.3 billion dollar loss for the second half of
2009. *That butt-ugly Camaro is not going to save them.

My Dutch friend, a very liberal guy, commented that the European news is talking
about how much the US news is coming out against Toyota...with little or no
mention of the other car makers' recalls. They attribute it to the power of the
UAW and the attitude of the American press.

Well of course the Europeans will say it's the bad Americans that are
being unfair... they have their own attitudes. It's pretty common
knowledge that the Japanese auto makers have operated using "secret
recalls" and warranties for years. They tend to try to save face,
when the US car makers were compelled by closer scrutiny here in the
states to issue public recalls.

Many people love their Hondas, but the one Honda I've owned was the
most troublesome car I've owned. It had more issues than the two
Explorers that came after it.

Remind your friend of the US press going after Ford in the Explorer
roll-over fiasco. That was trumped-up BS... I hit a chunk of metal on
the interstate running 75mph. It hit the front diff, bounced off the
gas tank skid plate, and cut a four inch gash in my left rear tire,
deflating it instantly. I lifted off the gas, drifted over to the
emergency lane, and changed my tire. No drama. The Explorer was no
worse than any other SUV for instability, it was just the most
popular, with so many on the road the rate of occurance was high. I
think it was Car and Driver who rigged up a tire on an Explorer to
deflate instantly, and they did a series of tests that showed it was
stable. Drivers simply over reacted and caused them to crash.

Agree on the UAW though... they are corruption defined.

Guv'mint Motors Quality Control
 

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 13:03:10 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 09:01:24 -0700 (PDT), Jack
wrote:

Many people love their Hondas, but the one Honda I've owned was the
most troublesome car I've owned.

I had 2 Hondas that were pretty good and not hard to work on but my
current Prelude needs a timing belt and the first line in the shop
manual instructions to replace this belt is "remove engine".
This is the kind of engineering that GM would be proud of (similar to
the old Nova V-8 that required you to loosen a motor mount and raise
the engine to get to one of the spark plugs).
The difference is, this is not some 4 cylinder econobox that they
tried to cram a V-8 in. This car came off the drawing board this way.
BTW Honda will do it for $1000.

I once had a '67 MGB GT. I bought it with a bad clutch, but got it for $150,
which was a pretty good deal.

The first step in replacing the clutch was, "Remove engine". I know how you
feel.

Guv'mint Motors Quality Control
 

Loogypicker wrote:
On Apr 12, 10:34 am, hk wrote:
On 4/12/10 10:28 AM, Frogwatch wrote:

Forbes says that 6 of the 7 worst new cars are being made by GM and
Chrysler, the same level of quality we can expect from ObamaCare.
You're going to get an ObamaClunker for health care with treatment
decided by bureaucrats on the basis of lowest cost. Good Job Dims.
No wonder your business is failing; the CEO is insane. GM and Chrysler
management ensured their companies made crap cars before the government
infusions...and so did Ford's management.


Where did you get the idea that his business is failing?

Krause is an expert at minding everyone else's business.

Guv'mint Motors Quality Control
 

On Apr 12, 1:15*pm, anon-e-moose wrote:
Loogypicker wrote:
On Apr 12, 10:34 am, hk wrote:
On 4/12/10 10:28 AM, Frogwatch wrote:

Forbes says that 6 of the 7 worst new cars are being made by GM and
Chrysler, the same level of quality we can expect from ObamaCare.
You're going to get an ObamaClunker for health care with treatment
decided by bureaucrats on the basis of lowest cost. *Good Job Dims.
No wonder your business is failing; the CEO is insane. GM and Chrysler
management ensured their companies made crap cars before the government
infusions...and so did Ford's management.

Where did you get the idea that his business is failing?

Krause is an expert at minding everyone else's business.

Real Americans support capitalism and buy Toyotas, Statists buy
Government Motors.

Guv'mint Motors Quality Control
 

On 4/12/10 11:45 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 11:28:34 -0400,
wrote:

autoworkers in most democracies are
unionized. Even Ferrari autoworkers are unionized. *If* GM and Chrysler
are making "substandard" cars, it is entirely the fault of management.

I would agree that there are some unions that assist with, and
encourage, good quality. The UAW has never impressed me that way.
Whether or not that is ultimately the fault of management is certainly
arguable.What is perfectly clear is that the UAW has an unblemished
track record for opposing the modernization of work rules and other
improvements in productivity.


You really do not know what you are talking about in your last
sentence, nor do you have any understanding of the severely adversarial
relationship that has existed between the UAW and the employers of its
members for many, many generations, going back to the 1930's and the
Ford Motor Company attacks on union members, organizers and
pamphleteers. The employers have never let up for a moment in their
attempts to bust the unions. In other parts of the world, the
relationship between the manufacturers and the unions, while adversarial
in many countries, is quite different.

The auto manufacturers in this country got precisely the relationship
with the unions that they deserved.

Quality control at an auto plant is entirely the function of management.






--
http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym

Guv'mint Motors Quality Control
 

"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...
On Apr 12, 1:15 pm, anon-e-moose wrote:
Loogypicker wrote:
On Apr 12, 10:34 am, hk wrote:
On 4/12/10 10:28 AM, Frogwatch wrote:

Forbes says that 6 of the 7 worst new cars are being made by GM and
Chrysler, the same level of quality we can expect from ObamaCare.
You're going to get an ObamaClunker for health care with treatment
decided by bureaucrats on the basis of lowest cost. Good Job Dims.
No wonder your business is failing; the CEO is insane. GM and Chrysler
management ensured their companies made crap cars before the government
infusions...and so did Ford's management.

Where did you get the idea that his business is failing?

Krause is an expert at minding everyone else's business.

Real Americans support capitalism and buy Toyotas, Statists buy
Government Motors.


Wow... so, because GM is using some gov't money to get back to business,
you're advocating buying foreign????

--
Nom=de=Plume

Guv'mint Motors Quality Control
 

On 4/12/10 4:55 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Apr 12, 1:15 pm, wrote:
Loogypicker wrote:
On Apr 12, 10:34 am, wrote:
On 4/12/10 10:28 AM, Frogwatch wrote:

Forbes says that 6 of the 7 worst new cars are being made by GM and
Chrysler, the same level of quality we can expect from ObamaCare.
You're going to get an ObamaClunker for health care with treatment
decided by bureaucrats on the basis of lowest cost. Good Job Dims.
No wonder your business is failing; the CEO is insane. GM and Chrysler
management ensured their companies made crap cars before the government
infusions...and so did Ford's management.

Where did you get the idea that his business is failing?

Krause is an expert at minding everyone else's business.

Real Americans support capitalism and buy Toyotas, Statists buy
Government Motors.


Wow... so, because GM is using some gov't money to get back to business,
you're advocating buying foreign????



Froggy has whined here a number of times about his inability to keep his
workers busy, his desire to farm out what little manufacturing/assembly
he does to foreign workers, and his desire to find new lines of business
not related to what he does now.

--
http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym

Guv'mint Motors Quality Control
 

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 07:28:58 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

Forbes says that 6 of the 7 worst new cars are being made by GM and
Chrysler, the same level of quality we can expect from ObamaCare.
You're going to get an ObamaClunker for health care with treatment
decided by bureaucrats on the basis of lowest cost. Good Job Dims.

guess he doesnt know the countries with best healthcare are all
'socialized'.

oh well...the right is never big on thinking

and both GM and chrysler are privately held...

Guv'mint Motors Quality Control
 

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 10:44:06 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

On Apr 12, 1:15*pm, anon-e-moose wrote:
Loogypicker wrote:
On Apr 12, 10:34 am, hk wrote:
On 4/12/10 10:28 AM, Frogwatch wrote:

Forbes says that 6 of the 7 worst new cars are being made by GM and
Chrysler, the same level of quality we can expect from ObamaCare.
You're going to get an ObamaClunker for health care with treatment
decided by bureaucrats on the basis of lowest cost. *Good Job Dims.
No wonder your business is failing; the CEO is insane. GM and Chrysler
management ensured their companies made crap cars before the government
infusions...and so did Ford's management.

Where did you get the idea that his business is failing?

Krause is an expert at minding everyone else's business.

Real Americans support capitalism and buy Toyotas, Statists buy
Government Motors.

really? if unregulated capitalism is so great...

why isn't lehman brothers around to tell us? what happened to the 9
trillion in 401K's and other investments that wall street told us were
safe?

Guv'mint Motors Quality Control
 

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 11:17:35 -0400, John H
wrote:

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 08:14:33 -0700 (PDT), Jack wrote:

On Apr 12, 10:28*am, Frogwatch wrote:
Forbes says that 6 of the 7 worst new cars are being made by GM and
Chrysler, the same level of quality we can expect from ObamaCare.
You're going to get an ObamaClunker for health care with treatment
decided by bureaucrats on the basis of lowest cost. *Good Job Dims.

Ford deserved kudos not only because they didn't take any fed money,
but also because their quality is now better than the rest, including
Toyota.

Meanwhile GM posted a 4.3 billion dollar loss for the second half of
2009. That butt-ugly Camaro is not going to save them.

My Dutch friend, a very liberal guy, commented that the European news is talking
about how much the US news is coming out against Toyota...with little or no
mention of the other car makers' recalls. They attribute it to the power of the
UAW and the attitude of the American press.

i've been to europe a number of times. they have no idea how weak
american unions are.

and the MSM is controlled by rupert murdoch...hardly a left winger

Guv'mint Motors Quality Control
 

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 09:01:24 -0700 (PDT), Jack
wrote:



Many people love their Hondas, but the one Honda I've owned was the
most troublesome car I've owned. It had more issues than the two
Explorers that came after it.

i've got 197,000 miles on mine. replaced the tires a few time. a few
lightbulbs...that's about it.


Remind your friend of the US press going after Ford in the Explorer
roll-over fiasco.

really? my boss is living in an apartment while his house is being
rebuilt after his ford explorer short circuited and burned it down


Agree on the UAW though... they are corruption defined.

ROFLMAO!!! american unions don't exist.

Guv'mint Motors Quality Control
 

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 13:46:29 -0400, hk
wrote:

I would agree that there are some unions that assist with, and
encourage, good quality. The UAW has never impressed me that way.
Whether or not that is ultimately the fault of management is certainly
arguable.What is perfectly clear is that the UAW has an unblemished
track record for opposing the modernization of work rules and other
improvements in productivity.


You really do not know what you are talking about in your last
sentence, nor do you have any understanding of the severely adversarial
relationship that has existed between the UAW and the employers of its
members for many, many generations, going back to the 1930's and the
Ford Motor Company attacks on union members, organizers and
pamphleteers. The employers have never let up for a moment in their
attempts to bust the unions.

1930s ?

That's like red necks still fighting the civil war 150 years later.
It's time to move on into the 21st century.

GM and Ford could have busted the unions any time they were willing to
take the big strike and start sub-contracting out major
sub-assemblies to non-union suppliers. The short term profit motive
and politics always won out. The UAW would target the weakest of the
three sisters and everyone else would fall into line.

Guv'mint Motors Quality Control
 

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 13:55:18 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Real Americans support capitalism and buy Toyotas, Statists buy
Government Motors.


Wow... so, because GM is using some gov't money to get back to business,
you're advocating buying foreign????


The strange thing is a Toyota may have as much American content as a
Chevy ... but we bought a Ford (made in Canada, 55% US parts)


You're probably right. I had a friend who was arguing not to buy anything
but from an "American" company. I pointed out that most of the stuff inside
the car is probably built elsewhere and just assembled here. I love my Ford
truck.. tough as nails. My "regular" car is a Euro... it also probably has
US parts and assembly.

--
Nom=de=Plume

Guv'mint Motors Quality Control
 

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 17:37:00 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

what happened to the 9
trillion in 401K's and other investments that wall street told us were
safe?

If your 401k hasn't recovered yet you better seriously look into
changing to a better money manager.
If they were doing their job the would have sold into that decline and
bought the hell out of the bottom. Now that the market is close to
where it was a few years ago they should be showing a tidy profit.
I am just a dumb old working class redneck and I did fine.
I am sitting an a couple "doubles" and a "triple".

My portfolio took a hit, but it's doing fine now... I'm certainly not
worried about it.

--
Nom=de=Plume

Guv'mint Motors Quality Control
 

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 18:17:27 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 17:37:00 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

what happened to the 9
trillion in 401K's and other investments that wall street told us were
safe?

If your 401k hasn't recovered yet you better seriously look into
changing to a better money manager.

do you know mathematics?

do you know equities, bonds, securities, etc?

no one in my age group has had their 401K's recover yet. Stocks are at
11,000, a far cry from 14,000 2 years ago.

and average drop in 401K's was 35%. For a 100K investment this means
35K drop.

so a 100K investment 3 years ago is worth 65K today. to go from 65K to
100K is 50%.

there are no major market increases of that magnitude in the last 2
years.

for YOUNG people that's possible. their 401K increases are being
driven by the matching contributions from their employers, so 50% is
possible

NOT for a mature 401K like mine.

you're an idiot.

If they were doing their job the would have sold into that decline and
bought the hell out of the bottom. Now that the market is close to
where it was a few years ago they should be showing a tidy profit.

uh no. the market is still about 35% below where it was at 14,000

I am just a dumb old working class redneck and I did fine.
I am sitting an a couple "doubles" and a "triple".

that you're dumb is simply fact.

that you're a redneck is beyond dispute.

that your 401K has recovered simply means you had no investments to
begin with.

Guv'mint Motors Quality Control
 

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 18:35:18 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

NOT for a mature 401K like mine.

you're an idiot.

If they were doing their job the would have sold into that decline and
bought the hell out of the bottom. Now that the market is close to
where it was a few years ago they should be showing a tidy profit.

uh no. the market is still about 35% below where it was at 14,000

I am just a dumb old working class redneck and I did fine.
I am sitting an a couple "doubles" and a "triple".

that you're dumb is simply fact.

that you're a redneck is beyond dispute.

that your 401K has recovered simply means you had no investments to
begin with.

WF3H, while I respect your contributions to the Maritime Mobile
Service Net, I do not respect your language and tone. It's just
uncalled for.

The fact that your 401K has not recovered is unfortunate but others,
including my own are doing just fine. I might add that my 401 is
about as mature as they get. The key is management. Did you stay in
equities all the way to the bottom? With all due respect that is
*not* conservative or prudent investing, especially in a 401 where
there are typically no transaction costs or tax issues. There is an
old saying that you should never hang on to a falling stock because
you can always buy it back when it recovers. Simple advice,
sometimes hard to follow, but there is some rationale to it.

Guv'mint Motors Quality Control
 

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 19:40:26 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 18:35:18 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

NOT for a mature 401K like mine.

you're an idiot.

If they were doing their job the would have sold into that decline and
bought the hell out of the bottom. Now that the market is close to
where it was a few years ago they should be showing a tidy profit.

uh no. the market is still about 35% below where it was at 14,000

I am just a dumb old working class redneck and I did fine.
I am sitting an a couple "doubles" and a "triple".

that you're dumb is simply fact.

that you're a redneck is beyond dispute.

that your 401K has recovered simply means you had no investments to
begin with.

WF3H, while I respect your contributions to the Maritime Mobile
Service Net, I do not respect your language and tone. It's just
uncalled for.

uh what? if i got any more demure, i'd wear lace panties!


The fact that your 401K has not recovered is unfortunate but others,
including my own are doing just fine.

uh no. most people's havent recovered, for reasons i outlined already





I might add that my 401 is
about as mature as they get. The key is management. Did you stay in
equities all the way to the bottom? With all due respect that is
*not* conservative or prudent investing, especially in a 401 where
there are typically no transaction costs or tax issues. There is an
old saying that you should never hang on to a falling stock because
you can always buy it back when it recovers. Simple advice,
sometimes hard to follow, but there is some rationale to it.
\

funny...me and 100,000,000 american working people are in the same
boat.

Guv'mint Motors Quality Control
 

On 4/12/10 6:16 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 13:46:29 -0400,
wrote:

I would agree that there are some unions that assist with, and
encourage, good quality. The UAW has never impressed me that way.
Whether or not that is ultimately the fault of management is certainly
arguable.What is perfectly clear is that the UAW has an unblemished
track record for opposing the modernization of work rules and other
improvements in productivity.


You really do not know what you are talking about in your last
sentence, nor do you have any understanding of the severely adversarial
relationship that has existed between the UAW and the employers of its
members for many, many generations, going back to the 1930's and the
Ford Motor Company attacks on union members, organizers and
pamphleteers. The employers have never let up for a moment in their
attempts to bust the unions.

1930s ?

That's like red necks still fighting the civil war 150 years later.
It's time to move on into the 21st century.

GM and Ford could have busted the unions any time they were willing to
take the big strike and start sub-contracting out major
sub-assemblies to non-union suppliers. The short term profit motive
and politics always won out. The UAW would target the weakest of the
three sisters and everyone else would fall into line.


U.S. automaker policy towards unions has not changed since the 1930's.
It's still relevant.

And the rednecks are still fighting the civil war 150 years later...you
need look no farther than the state of virginia and the teabaggers.

--
http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym

Guv'mint Motors Quality Control
 

In article ,
says...
that you're dumb is simply fact.

that you're a redneck is beyond dispute.

that your 401K has recovered simply means you had no investments to
begin with.

Do you want my list of stocks ?
Maybe you could learn something.


Buy high and sell low and don't listen to your financial advisor.

Guv'mint Motors Quality Control
 

On Apr 12, 5:40*pm, bpuharic wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 09:01:24 -0700 (PDT), Jack
wrote:



Many people love their Hondas, but the one Honda I've owned was the
most troublesome car I've owned. *It had more issues than the two
Explorers that came after it.

i've got 197,000 miles on mine. replaced the tires a few time. a few
lightbulbs...that's about it.

I guess you've forgotten about the two "scheduled" timing belts, water
pump, alternator, CV joints, rotors, porous blocks, etc... Not to
mention the rather aggressive maintenance schedule they force on you
to maintain your warranty. Every 7500 miles? Yeah, right.


Remind your friend of the US press going after Ford in the Explorer
roll-over fiasco.

really? my boss is living in an apartment while his house is being
rebuilt after his ford explorer short circuited and burned it down

That's old news, and should have been fixed in a recall, what, 6 years
ago? Not a secret recall, mind you, but the real thing. Besides, you
don't have a boss, you're unemployable.




Agree on the UAW though... they are corruption defined.

ROFLMAO!!! american unions don't exist.

Tell that to my ex wife, who worked for GM at the Lordstown OH plant.
She's told me the stories about how the workers used to screw GM over
for fun, and then sit back and let the union save their jobs, again
and again. She intentionally shut down the line one day, and GM
couldn't fire her. She knew that, and she and the rest of the union
pukes took full advantage of it. There's your quality control, and
why GM lost another 4.8 billion in the last 6 months.

But live on in your fantasy would, OK?

Guv'mint Motors Quality Control
 

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 21:15:46 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 19:40:26 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

There is an
old saying that you should never hang on to a falling stock because
you can always buy it back when it recovers. Simple advice,
sometimes hard to follow, but there is some rationale to it.

Yup. Buy and hold is a sucker bet in a volatile market like we have
had for the last 20 years. Take the tax hit and trade into these
roller coaster rides.
Back when Martha Stewart was having her problems I almost tripled my
money by selling the 12s and buying the 9s. It cycled 3 or 4 times
that way. These days with online market orders that sort of thing is
easy to do.
I don't really play with that much money but my stock dabbling bought
me a swimming pool, my outboard and a room addition since Y2K.

i love it

100,000,000 americans got suckered by wall street's free market lies

and the right says it's the fault of the middle class

the right really does hate the middle class

Guv'mint Motors Quality Control
 

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 21:06:39 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 18:35:18 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

If your 401k hasn't recovered yet you better seriously look into
changing to a better money manager.

do you know mathematics?


I can add and subtract
\\

no sign of that at all

do you know equities, bonds, securities, etc?

I understand an up and a down market. I actually study the companies I
buy stock in.

and some of us actually work for a living. me and 100,000,000
americans don't have the time to build a country AND keep an eye on
wall street.


no one in my age group has had their 401K's recover yet. Stocks are at
11,000, a far cry from 14,000 2 years ago.

Mine is OK, significantly better than it was a year ago and quite a
bit better than when I stopped putting money in it. in 1998. (more
than double)

and mine IS better. it has not recovered





you're an idiot.


I am an idiot who is doing OK in the market, what does that say about
your 401k manager

he works for wall street. me and 100,000,000 americans. taking the
only option wall street left us, after the right destroyed the pension
system, invested in 401K's.



If they were doing their job the would have sold into that decline and
bought the hell out of the bottom. Now that the market is close to
where it was a few years ago they should be showing a tidy profit.

uh no. the market is still about 35% below where it was at 14,000

... but it is 83% better than it was at 6,000. There are loots of
stocks like CLNE that are triple what they were 2 years ago.

and my 401k is up. but not recovered


I am just a dumb old working class redneck and I did fine.
I am sitting an a couple "doubles" and a "triple".

that you're dumb is simply fact.

that you're a redneck is beyond dispute.

that your 401K has recovered simply means you had no investments to
begin with.

Do you want my list of stocks ?
Maybe you could learn something.

i already have. unlike you i've learned not to trust wall street and
the right wing.

you're still their sucker

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On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 18:26:47 -0700 (PDT), Jack
wrote:

On Apr 12, 5:40*pm, bpuharic wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 09:01:24 -0700 (PDT), Jack
wrote:



Many people love their Hondas, but the one Honda I've owned was the
most troublesome car I've owned. *It had more issues than the two
Explorers that came after it.

i've got 197,000 miles on mine. replaced the tires a few time. a few
lightbulbs...that's about it.

I guess you've forgotten about the two "scheduled" timing belts, water
pump, alternator, CV joints, rotors, porous blocks, etc... Not to
mention the rather aggressive maintenance schedule they force on you
to maintain your warranty. Every 7500 miles? Yeah, right.

did the belt at 155K. looked great. havent replaced any joints since
in PA we have rigorous inspection and those parts are inspected
annually. just had the inspection.

and there is no warranty at 195K.



really? my boss is living in an apartment while his house is being
rebuilt after his ford explorer short circuited and burned it down

That's old news, and should have been fixed in a recall, what, 6 years
ago? Not a secret recall, mind you, but the real thing. Besides, you
don't have a boss, you're unemployable.]]


yeah. me and 100,000,000 other americans, according to the right wing






Agree on the UAW though... they are corruption defined.

ROFLMAO!!! american unions don't exist.

Tell that to my ex wife, who worked for GM at the Lordstown OH plant.

tell it to the millions of american workers who, without union
protection, have had their livelihoods destroyed by the greed of wall
street, aided by the right wing


But live on in your fantasy would, OK?

says the guy who thinks limball's kool aid is the blood of christ

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On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 21:38:45 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

the right really does hate the middle class

We're all middle class here and no one hates anybody as far as I know.

Your free market diatribes are totally off the wall. Why not move
somewhere that you might like better? That's one advantage of a free
country.

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On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 22:35:01 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 21:38:45 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

the right really does hate the middle class

We're all middle class here and no one hates anybody as far as I know.

Your free market diatribes are totally off the wall. Why not move
somewhere that you might like better? That's one advantage of a free
country.

this was a great country until the free market fundies screwed it up.

and, yes, we're middle class. some of us respect the middle class.

the right doesn't

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On 12/04/2010 8:28 AM, Frogwatch wrote:

Forbes says that 6 of the 7 worst new cars are being made by GM and
Chrysler, the same level of quality we can expect from ObamaCare.
You're going to get an ObamaClunker for health care with treatment
decided by bureaucrats on the basis of lowest cost. Good Job Dims.

And you should see the gubimints planed increase in taxes!!!

Welcome to marxism and statism.

--
The Liberal way, take no responsibility.

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On 12/04/2010 2:55 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Apr 12, 1:15 pm, wrote:
Loogypicker wrote:
On Apr 12, 10:34 am, wrote:
On 4/12/10 10:28 AM, Frogwatch wrote:

Forbes says that 6 of the 7 worst new cars are being made by GM and
Chrysler, the same level of quality we can expect from ObamaCare.
You're going to get an ObamaClunker for health care with treatment
decided by bureaucrats on the basis of lowest cost. Good Job Dims.
No wonder your business is failing; the CEO is insane. GM and Chrysler
management ensured their companies made crap cars before the government
infusions...and so did Ford's management.

Where did you get the idea that his business is failing?

Krause is an expert at minding everyone else's business.

Real Americans support capitalism and buy Toyotas, Statists buy
Government Motors.


Wow... so, because GM is using some gov't money to get back to business,
you're advocating buying foreign????

Yep. Because I don't support the use of tax dollars for *ANY* business
for no reason including bailouts. If bailouts are needed, CEOs and
boards go to jail. And I will not buy UAW/CAW as they help sell us all
out pinning the debt on the taxpayers. So screw them.

I will not buy a NA made Toyota, GM, Chrysler, Honda, Ford, Nissan, BMW
as even though some of their plants may even be NA non-union, they use
UAW/CAW parts. Screw them all. I might not be able to change our
corrupt politicians agenda, but I don't have to support it.

So unless these "foreign names" and Ford start importing where the
content is 100% non-UAW/CAW I guess they will not see my money.

I want fresh off the boat at a world pricing schedule, not a GM or
government screw over. I hear the Chinese sell some nice 4x4 SUT for
under $10K.

--
The Liberal way, take no responsibility.

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On 12/04/2010 3:36 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 13:55:18 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Real Americans support capitalism and buy Toyotas, Statists buy
Government Motors.


Wow... so, because GM is using some gov't money to get back to business,
you're advocating buying foreign????


The strange thing is a Toyota may have as much American content as a
Chevy ... but we bought a Ford (made in Canada, 55% US parts)

Actually, if you look it up, often Toyota has much more labour AND parts
from North America than GM. And if you look up where Toyota is having
problems, the problem parts were made in North America....

Quite a bit of BS and hypocracy from the leftist lunch bucket BSers.
--
The Liberal way, take no responsibility.

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On 12/04/2010 3:37 PM, bpuharic wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 10:44:06 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

On Apr 12, 1:15 pm, wrote:
Loogypicker wrote:
On Apr 12, 10:34 am, wrote:
On 4/12/10 10:28 AM, Frogwatch wrote:

Forbes says that 6 of the 7 worst new cars are being made by GM and
Chrysler, the same level of quality we can expect from ObamaCare.
You're going to get an ObamaClunker for health care with treatment
decided by bureaucrats on the basis of lowest cost. Good Job Dims.
No wonder your business is failing; the CEO is insane. GM and Chrysler
management ensured their companies made crap cars before the government
infusions...and so did Ford's management.

Where did you get the idea that his business is failing?

Krause is an expert at minding everyone else's business.

Real Americans support capitalism and buy Toyotas, Statists buy
Government Motors.

really? if unregulated capitalism is so great...

why isn't lehman brothers around to tell us? what happened to the 9
trillion in 401K's and other investments that wall street told us were
safe?

Lehman isn't arround as they didn't have the right super rich depositors
that Obama, democrat congress and Bush wanted to bailout.

Carlyle got Lehman's assets for a penny on the dollar, which is where a
lot of the bailout money disappeared to. Even at 10 cents on the dollar
for the Lehamn bonds Carlyle made a bundle. You should look up Carlyle
Groups relationship with the ultra rich and GM.

--
The Liberal way, take no responsibility.

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On 12/04/2010 4:35 PM, bpuharic wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 18:17:27 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 17:37:00 -0400, wrote:

what happened to the 9
trillion in 401K's and other investments that wall street told us were
safe?

If your 401k hasn't recovered yet you better seriously look into
changing to a better money manager.

do you know mathematics?

do you know equities, bonds, securities, etc?

no one in my age group has had their 401K's recover yet. Stocks are at
11,000, a far cry from 14,000 2 years ago.

and average drop in 401K's was 35%. For a 100K investment this means
35K drop.

so a 100K investment 3 years ago is worth 65K today. to go from 65K to
100K is 50%.

there are no major market increases of that magnitude in the last 2
years.

for YOUNG people that's possible. their 401K increases are being
driven by the matching contributions from their employers, so 50% is
possible

NOT for a mature 401K like mine.

you're an idiot.

If they were doing their job the would have sold into that decline and
bought the hell out of the bottom. Now that the market is close to
where it was a few years ago they should be showing a tidy profit.

uh no. the market is still about 35% below where it was at 14,000

I am just a dumb old working class redneck and I did fine.
I am sitting an a couple "doubles" and a "triple".

that you're dumb is simply fact.

that you're a redneck is beyond dispute.

that your 401K has recovered simply means you had no investments to
begin with.

Then fire your money manager. I have 3 pools of US investments.

The smallest and worst performer is up only 10% from its prior peek.
The largest and actively managed is up 30% from prior peaks. The worst
performing pool of funds I have is foreign, only up 2% from prior peeks.

So ask your money manager why you should be paying him?

--
The Liberal way, take no responsibility.

Guv'mint Motors Quality Control
 

On Apr 12, 9:45*pm, bpuharic wrote:

Tell that to my ex wife, who worked for GM at the Lordstown OH plant.
She's told me the stories about how the workers used to screw GM over
for fun, and then sit back and let the union save their jobs, again
and again. She intentionally shut down the line one day, and GM
couldn't fire her. She knew that, and she and the rest of the union
pukes took full advantage of it. There's your quality control, and
why GM lost another 4.8 billion in the last 6 months.

Guv'mint Motors Quality Control
 

On 12/04/2010 9:17 AM, John H wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 08:14:33 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Apr 12, 10:28 am, wrote:
Forbes says that 6 of the 7 worst new cars are being made by GM and
Chrysler, the same level of quality we can expect from ObamaCare.
You're going to get an ObamaClunker for health care with treatment
decided by bureaucrats on the basis of lowest cost. Good Job Dims.

Ford deserved kudos not only because they didn't take any fed money,
but also because their quality is now better than the rest, including
Toyota.

Meanwhile GM posted a 4.3 billion dollar loss for the second half of
2009. That butt-ugly Camaro is not going to save them.

My Dutch friend, a very liberal guy, commented that the European news is talking
about how much the US news is coming out against Toyota...with little or no
mention of the other car makers' recalls. They attribute it to the power of the
UAW and the attitude of the American press.

GM issues the statement the other day their gas peddle fix will not be
out until 2012.

I would agree with the Euro assertion.

--
The Liberal way, take no responsibility.