wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 12:56:42 -0500, bpuharic wrote:

On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 12:41:30 -0500, Harry
wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jan 2010 14:17:14 -0500, bpuharic wrote:

it was corporate america's attitude that destroyed GM, not the UAW.
What was GM's largest financial liability?
Just a wild ass guess. LABOR
nope. less than 10% of the vehicle's price

but, of course, that's what the right whine WOULD guess

You are right that the average labor cost in a GM car is about $1600
but the burden is the additional obligations to retirees that adds
another $2000 to that car.
It didn't help that GM has been buying out the boomers with full
pensions and benefits when they are in their 50s. It is just a way to
make your bottom line look better and offload the problem onto the
taxpayer. I believe Detroit management and the UAW share
responsibility here.


You righties seem to have no understanding whatsoever about the purpose
of a labor union. That purpose is to advocate for its members for better
wages, hours, working conditions and fringe benefits, and to protect its
members from the arbitrary decisions of management. Unions are not
responsible for the screw-ups of management.

"Harry" wrote in message
...

wrote:

It didn't help that GM has been buying out the boomers with full
pensions and benefits when they are in their 50s. It is just a way to
make your bottom line look better and offload the problem onto the
taxpayer. I believe Detroit management and the UAW share
responsibility here.



You righties seem to have no understanding whatsoever about the purpose of
a labor union. That purpose is to advocate for its members for better
wages, hours, working conditions and fringe benefits, and to protect its
members from the arbitrary decisions of management. Unions are not
responsible for the screw-ups of management.


Wait a minute. The labor unions have had a mighty strong negotiating
positions with
management for many years. Those negotiations affect management decisions,
good or bad.
You can't say that unions don't have an affect on the company's direction or
future, as
you have already stated that their purpose includes "to protect its members
from the arbitrary
decisions of management."

Eisboch

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Harry" wrote in message
...

wrote:

It didn't help that GM has been buying out the boomers with full
pensions and benefits when they are in their 50s. It is just a way to
make your bottom line look better and offload the problem onto the
taxpayer. I believe Detroit management and the UAW share
responsibility here.



You righties seem to have no understanding whatsoever about the purpose
of a labor union. That purpose is to advocate for its members for better
wages, hours, working conditions and fringe benefits, and to protect its
members from the arbitrary decisions of management. Unions are not
responsible for the screw-ups of management.


Wait a minute. The labor unions have had a mighty strong negotiating
positions with
management for many years. Those negotiations affect management
decisions, good or bad.
You can't say that unions don't have an affect on the company's direction
or future, as
you have already stated that their purpose includes "to protect its
members from the arbitrary
decisions of management."

Eisboch




Yes. They have had strong positions in the past. Not so much in recent
times. Blame is universal. Now that we've solved this, it's time to get back
to the other, more pressing issues, such as John Edward's love child,
ummm... the Supreme Court decision.


--
Nom=de=Plume

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 17:22:39 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

it's time to get back
to the other, more pressing issues, such as John Edward's love child
Which one? There are two now.


Oh sh*t!!! lol

--
Nom=de=Plume

Eisboch wrote:
"Harry" wrote in message
...

wrote:

It didn't help that GM has been buying out the boomers with full
pensions and benefits when they are in their 50s. It is just a way to
make your bottom line look better and offload the problem onto the
taxpayer. I believe Detroit management and the UAW share
responsibility here.



You righties seem to have no understanding whatsoever about the purpose of
a labor union. That purpose is to advocate for its members for better
wages, hours, working conditions and fringe benefits, and to protect its
members from the arbitrary decisions of management. Unions are not
responsible for the screw-ups of management.


Wait a minute. The labor unions have had a mighty strong negotiating
positions with
management for many years. Those negotiations affect management decisions,
good or bad.
You can't say that unions don't have an affect on the company's direction or
future, as
you have already stated that their purpose includes "to protect its members
from the arbitrary
decisions of management."

Eisboch



I did not state or imply that unions have no effect on management
decisions. I did say a union's responsibility is to its members, not to
corporate management or shareholders.

On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 20:09:44 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"Harry" wrote in message
...

wrote:

It didn't help that GM has been buying out the boomers with full
pensions and benefits when they are in their 50s. It is just a way to
make your bottom line look better and offload the problem onto the
taxpayer. I believe Detroit management and the UAW share
responsibility here.



You righties seem to have no understanding whatsoever about the purpose of
a labor union. That purpose is to advocate for its members for better
wages, hours, working conditions and fringe benefits, and to protect its
members from the arbitrary decisions of management. Unions are not
responsible for the screw-ups of management.


Wait a minute. The labor unions have had a mighty strong negotiating
positions with
management for many years.

how? if management didnt like the deal, they shut down the plant and
move to a right to work state that the right wing has so thoughtfully
provided.

or they just wait out the strike then hire scabs, legal because of the
right wing

unions have no power at all. that's why they dont exist in this
country

wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 19:51:07 -0500, Harry
wrote:

You righties seem to have no understanding whatsoever about the purpose
of a labor union.
I know all about unions, remember my mom worked for the Teamster's
international for 20 years.
Unfortunately the UAW and the big 3 management companies were all
creating an unsustainable bubble in what they were giving the
employees. It wasn't about "fair" or "enough", it was always about
"more".
They simply jacked up the prices of the cars, everybody was making a
lot of money and we paid it.
That bubble popped.

But but. My whole life is invested in unions. My pension, My health
insurance, My dear sweet wifes job. My writing career. If my union goes
tits up I'm sunk.

On Mon, 25 Jan 2010 00:32:11 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 19:51:07 -0500, Harry
wrote:

You righties seem to have no understanding whatsoever about the purpose
of a labor union.
I know all about unions, remember my mom worked for the Teamster's
international for 20 years.
Unfortunately the UAW and the big 3 management companies were all
creating an unsustainable bubble in what they were giving the
employees. It wasn't about "fair" or "enough", it was always about
"more".
They simply jacked up the prices of the cars, everybody was making a
lot of money and we paid it.
That bubble popped.

except, of course, wages are less than 10% of the price of a car...

wrote:
On Mon, 25 Jan 2010 19:34:53 -0500, bpuharic wrote:

On Mon, 25 Jan 2010 00:32:11 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 19:51:07 -0500, Harry
wrote:

You righties seem to have no understanding whatsoever about the purpose
of a labor union.
I know all about unions, remember my mom worked for the Teamster's
international for 20 years.
Unfortunately the UAW and the big 3 management companies were all
creating an unsustainable bubble in what they were giving the
employees. It wasn't about "fair" or "enough", it was always about
"more".
They simply jacked up the prices of the cars, everybody was making a
lot of money and we paid it.
That bubble popped.
except, of course, wages are less than 10% of the price of a car...


... and the pension plan is 15% of the price

That adds up to a whopping 25% for labor costs alone. Then there is
foreign and domestic factory operations, executive
bonuses,marketing/advertizing, floor planning, dealer incentives, dealer
markup, dealer packs.


I'll bet the sub assemblies in a 40K car don't cost the mfr. more than 10 K

They should start selling the cars in kit form.

Harry wrote:


They should start selling the cars in kit form.



Sorry, "flajims," but the real Harry uses a mac and doesn't post as a
Harry using "Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/2009"