On Sat, 23 Jan 2010 13:39:42 -0500, wrote:

On Sat, 23 Jan 2010 04:31:18 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:



This is the reason I believe legislation is needed to encourage small
business startups and expansion.
It's not the time to penalize small businesses that are struggling to stay
alive. High capital gains taxes is part of the penalty, both for those who
invest in their own business or for those who provide funding for one.

Eisboch



The UAW is an aberration that only demonstrates the "union bubble".
The UAW managed to drive compensation up, far beyond the value of the
work and we had a correction. Just like those cracker box houses that
were selling for $300k a few years ago, sanity has returned to the car
business ... in Tennessee. Putting a bearing in a transmission case
and hitting it with a soft hammer is not worth $50,000 a year (what my
wife's nephew was doing, right out of high school). He did have to
pick the case up and put it on the belt. That is why it was an entry
level job. (Kokomo Chrysler plant)
It's good to have a dad who is a shop steward I guess.

actually what happened was that GM treated the american consumer like
an ATM. the japanese treated american consumers like we were
consumers.

GM managers were accountants. toyota's are engineers who focused on
building cars.

it was corporate america's attitude that destroyed GM, not the UAW.

"bpuharic" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 23 Jan 2010 13:39:42 -0500, wrote:

On Sat, 23 Jan 2010 04:31:18 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:



This is the reason I believe legislation is needed to encourage small
business startups and expansion.
It's not the time to penalize small businesses that are struggling to
stay
alive. High capital gains taxes is part of the penalty, both for those
who
invest in their own business or for those who provide funding for one.

Eisboch



The UAW is an aberration that only demonstrates the "union bubble".
The UAW managed to drive compensation up, far beyond the value of the
work and we had a correction. Just like those cracker box houses that
were selling for $300k a few years ago, sanity has returned to the car
business ... in Tennessee. Putting a bearing in a transmission case
and hitting it with a soft hammer is not worth $50,000 a year (what my
wife's nephew was doing, right out of high school). He did have to
pick the case up and put it on the belt. That is why it was an entry
level job. (Kokomo Chrysler plant)
It's good to have a dad who is a shop steward I guess.

actually what happened was that GM treated the american consumer like
an ATM. the japanese treated american consumers like we were
consumers.

GM managers were accountants. toyota's are engineers who focused on
building cars.

it was corporate america's attitude that destroyed GM, not the UAW.



Was the UAW and management that caused the meltdown. No quality from either
management or UAW. go to Japan and Deming's photo is in every manufacturing
company. The father of quality control.

"CalifBill" wrote in message
news

"bpuharic" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 23 Jan 2010 13:39:42 -0500, wrote:

On Sat, 23 Jan 2010 04:31:18 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:



This is the reason I believe legislation is needed to encourage small
business startups and expansion.
It's not the time to penalize small businesses that are struggling to
stay
alive. High capital gains taxes is part of the penalty, both for those
who
invest in their own business or for those who provide funding for one.

Eisboch



The UAW is an aberration that only demonstrates the "union bubble".
The UAW managed to drive compensation up, far beyond the value of the
work and we had a correction. Just like those cracker box houses that
were selling for $300k a few years ago, sanity has returned to the car
business ... in Tennessee. Putting a bearing in a transmission case
and hitting it with a soft hammer is not worth $50,000 a year (what my
wife's nephew was doing, right out of high school). He did have to
pick the case up and put it on the belt. That is why it was an entry
level job. (Kokomo Chrysler plant)
It's good to have a dad who is a shop steward I guess.

actually what happened was that GM treated the american consumer like
an ATM. the japanese treated american consumers like we were
consumers.

GM managers were accountants. toyota's are engineers who focused on
building cars.

it was corporate america's attitude that destroyed GM, not the UAW.



Was the UAW and management that caused the meltdown. No quality from
either management or UAW. go to Japan and Deming's photo is in every
manufacturing company. The father of quality control.

Actually, I agree with you, mostly. Management is typically the first out of
the block, as far as culpability for business failure goes (poor, exploitive
management practices gave birth to the union movement in the US), but
history is pretty clear that the UAW didn't do right by its members nor by
the company.

There's a big difference between the union management (see previous
paragraph about management culpability) and the regular worker, however.

--
Nom=de=Plume

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"CalifBill" wrote in message
news

"bpuharic" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 23 Jan 2010 13:39:42 -0500, wrote:

On Sat, 23 Jan 2010 04:31:18 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:



This is the reason I believe legislation is needed to encourage small
business startups and expansion.
It's not the time to penalize small businesses that are struggling to
stay
alive. High capital gains taxes is part of the penalty, both for those
who
invest in their own business or for those who provide funding for one.

Eisboch



The UAW is an aberration that only demonstrates the "union bubble".
The UAW managed to drive compensation up, far beyond the value of the
work and we had a correction. Just like those cracker box houses that
were selling for $300k a few years ago, sanity has returned to the car
business ... in Tennessee. Putting a bearing in a transmission case
and hitting it with a soft hammer is not worth $50,000 a year (what my
wife's nephew was doing, right out of high school). He did have to
pick the case up and put it on the belt. That is why it was an entry
level job. (Kokomo Chrysler plant)
It's good to have a dad who is a shop steward I guess.

actually what happened was that GM treated the american consumer like
an ATM. the japanese treated american consumers like we were
consumers.

GM managers were accountants. toyota's are engineers who focused on
building cars.

it was corporate america's attitude that destroyed GM, not the UAW.



Was the UAW and management that caused the meltdown. No quality from
either management or UAW. go to Japan and Deming's photo is in every
manufacturing company. The father of quality control.

Actually, I agree with you, mostly. Management is typically the first out
of the block, as far as culpability for business failure goes (poor,
exploitive management practices gave birth to the union movement in the
US), but history is pretty clear that the UAW didn't do right by its
members nor by the company.

There's a big difference between the union management (see previous
paragraph about management culpability) and the regular worker, however.

--
Nom=de=Plume


The worker votes for the union management, so they get the blame also.

nom=de=plume wrote:


There's a big difference between the union management (see previous
paragraph about management culpability) and the regular worker, however.


There sure is Dippy. Management is holding regular workers back from
producing an honest days work.
I'm sure Union Management has some attributes. I just can't think of any
right now. Perhaps you can.

On Sat, 23 Jan 2010 21:52:52 -0800, "CalifBill"
wrote:


"bpuharic" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 23 Jan 2010 13:39:42 -0500, wrote:

On Sat, 23 Jan 2010 04:31:18 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:





The UAW is an aberration that only demonstrates the "union bubble".
The UAW managed to drive compensation up, far beyond the value of the
work and we had a correction. Just like those cracker box houses that
were selling for $300k a few years ago, sanity has returned to the car
business ... in Tennessee. Putting a bearing in a transmission case
and hitting it with a soft hammer is not worth $50,000 a year (what my
wife's nephew was doing, right out of high school). He did have to
pick the case up and put it on the belt. That is why it was an entry
level job. (Kokomo Chrysler plant)
It's good to have a dad who is a shop steward I guess.

actually what happened was that GM treated the american consumer like
an ATM. the japanese treated american consumers like we were
consumers.

GM managers were accountants. toyota's are engineers who focused on
building cars.

it was corporate america's attitude that destroyed GM, not the UAW.



Was the UAW and management that caused the meltdown. No quality from either
management or UAW. go to Japan and Deming's photo is in every manufacturing
company. The father of quality control.


agree to a certain extent. i used to work for bell labs..they invented
much of modern quality control (most business still use the 'western
electric rules' for statistical process control)

many japanese auto plants are unionized.

On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 12:11:13 -0500, wrote:

On Sat, 23 Jan 2010 14:17:14 -0500, bpuharic wrote:

it was corporate america's attitude that destroyed GM, not the UAW.

What was GM's largest financial liability?

it wasn't labor. labor accounts for less than 10% of a car's cost

try again...you already proved how much right wingers hate the middle
class when you blamed us for the financial meltdown, instead of your
god, wall street.

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 12:24:30 -0500, bpuharic wrote:

What was GM's largest financial liability?

it wasn't labor. labor accounts for less than 10% of a car's cost

try again...you already proved how much right wingers hate the middle
class when you blamed us for the financial meltdown, instead of your
god, wall street.

You try again, The biggest cost of a GM car was the pension and
benefit obligation

... and we ARE the middle class


Which were negotiated liabilities. You act like the unions were in charge.
Management made the deals too.

--
Nom=de=Plume

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 15:52:19 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 12:24:30 -0500, bpuharic wrote:

What was GM's largest financial liability?

it wasn't labor. labor accounts for less than 10% of a car's cost

try again...you already proved how much right wingers hate the middle
class when you blamed us for the financial meltdown, instead of your
god, wall street.

You try again, The biggest cost of a GM car was the pension and
benefit obligation

... and we ARE the middle class


Which were negotiated liabilities. You act like the unions were in charge.
Management made the deals too.

I have said it was a shared responsibility. Why do you think I am
saying any one faction did this. That is you guys.
This is not a right wing thing it is all a shared responsibility.


Please show me where I said it was one side.

--
Nom=de=Plume

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 22:02:51 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Please show me where I said it was one side.

Stop blaming Clinton and the democrats for something that's obviously
been
supported far longer and with more fervor by the right wing."


Both accurate statements. Your point?

--
Nom=de=Plume