Canuck57 wrote:
On 17/01/2010 6:28 PM, lil abner wrote:
bpuharic wrote:
Illegal immigrants from Haiti have no reason to fear deportation, but
if they are deported, Haiti is in great need of relief workers, and
many of them could be a big help to their fellow Haitians," -
Congressman Steve King (R-IA).
It is probably better to spend money rescuing Haiti than to bring them
here longterm or permanent residents.
The problem I see is finding Haitians to develop the Haitian economy.
They have a lot of resources but they have not moved beyond a third
world economy.
I believe it is because there are too many Haitians for their easily
utilized resource.
They have not had any effective leadership.
It seems from any report over the decades that small gangs etc run the
country.
I don't see how we can show these folks how to take care, of themselves.
It is going to take outside Leadership and economic enterprise.
It's a lot closer to Haiti than to China.

This is a humanitarian disaster that started decades ago. This we agree.

Assuming 1/2 the land is suitable for human habitation which may be
wildly optimistic, as you can't park your home on the waters edge
litterally, the population density is about 700 per sq. kilometer. Or
about 1100 people per square mile. The land is stripped for what is
useable and food is imported as there is no where to grow what they need
for self sufficiency.

With that level of over population, not really much one can do for the
economy either. Building earth quake resistant structures takes space,
100 square feet per family isn't going to do. And who pays? Will they
work or are they a herd of squaters?

Not sure there is any other choice. But persents a problem as most of
the population, 80% have below average skills in basic reading, have
never known a life without gang rule, servatude and bound to be a
problem in the NA society.

But forced birth control is in order here, it is insane to let them
breed children into desperation, starvation, disease, illiteracy...not
humane at all and absolutely irresponsible. They need a heavy handed
T
benevolant dictator that will have to do some nasty stuff to bring this
part of the world into the 21st century. Trouble is there are not that
many good dictators.

Nasty problem.
Put Administration of the Island under US Army School of the Americas.
Train and pay a Police Force that is over square, of the problem.
The State Department needs to start encouraging Companies to build
production there under US or Army Supervision.
Wages can be 4 dollars an hour and build them an economy. Do not let
Banks get hold of the Island. They will bleed half or more of whatever
is invested. Let some Captain run the Island Financial system Keep all
Banking community and national and keep International Banking funds out
of it. t will take a decade or more realistically 2 decades to get
Haitian producing enough jobs to sustain the economy. A strong US
Policing presence will be necessary for at least 3 decades. By that time
Schools should be turning out People capable of learning and reasonable
thinking with an allegiance to God and Country. School should be 10
years with mandatory follow on of 4 years of co ledge, and trade schools
paid for by corporate taxes Keep the Multiculturalism wreckers out.
Laws of moral design and like America was constructed. One term of 6
years per appointed Senator. 1 term of 4 years per regional
Representative. One Term for a President.
One vital Law should be that Board members of public corporations cannot
exceed pay of what the 30 lowest paid Employees.
One Court per region and one Appeals Court and 1 Supreme Court that's
only duty is to make sure Laws conform to the Constiutional test.

On Mon, 18 Jan 2010 01:11:40 -0500, lil abner wrote:

Canuck57 wrote:
On 17/01/2010 6:28 PM, lil abner wrote:
bpuharic wrote:
Illegal immigrants from Haiti have no reason to fear deportation, but
if they are deported, Haiti is in great need of relief workers, and
many of them could be a big help to their fellow Haitians," -
Congressman Steve King (R-IA).
It is probably better to spend money rescuing Haiti than to bring them
here longterm or permanent residents. The problem I see is finding
Haitians to develop the Haitian economy. They have a lot of resources
but they have not moved beyond a third world economy.
I believe it is because there are too many Haitians for their easily
utilized resource.
They have not had any effective leadership. It seems from any report
over the decades that small gangs etc run the country.
I don't see how we can show these folks how to take care, of
themselves. It is going to take outside Leadership and economic
enterprise. It's a lot closer to Haiti than to China.

This is a humanitarian disaster that started decades ago. This we
agree.

Assuming 1/2 the land is suitable for human habitation which may be
wildly optimistic, as you can't park your home on the waters edge
litterally, the population density is about 700 per sq. kilometer. Or
about 1100 people per square mile. The land is stripped for what is
useable and food is imported as there is no where to grow what they
need for self sufficiency.

With that level of over population, not really much one can do for the
economy either. Building earth quake resistant structures takes space,
100 square feet per family isn't going to do. And who pays? Will they
work or are they a herd of squaters?

Not sure there is any other choice. But persents a problem as most of
the population, 80% have below average skills in basic reading, have
never known a life without gang rule, servatude and bound to be a
problem in the NA society.

But forced birth control is in order here, it is insane to let them
breed children into desperation, starvation, disease, illiteracy...not
humane at all and absolutely irresponsible. They need a heavy handed
T
benevolant dictator that will have to do some nasty stuff to bring this
part of the world into the 21st century. Trouble is there are not that
many good dictators.

Nasty problem.
Put Administration of the Island under US Army School of the Americas.
Train and pay a Police Force that is over square, of the problem. The
State Department needs to start encouraging Companies to build
production there under US or Army Supervision. Wages can be 4 dollars an
hour and build them an economy. Do not let Banks get hold of the Island.
They will bleed half or more of whatever is invested. Let some Captain
run the Island Financial system Keep all Banking community and national
and keep International Banking funds out of it. t will take a decade or
more realistically 2 decades to get Haitian producing enough jobs to
sustain the economy. A strong US Policing presence will be necessary
for at least 3 decades. By that time Schools should be turning out
People capable of learning and reasonable thinking with an allegiance to
God and Country. School should be 10 years with mandatory follow on of 4
years of co ledge, and trade schools paid for by corporate taxes Keep
the Multiculturalism wreckers out. Laws of moral design and like America
was constructed. One term of 6 years per appointed Senator. 1 term of 4
years per regional Representative. One Term for a President. One vital
Law should be that Board members of public corporations cannot exceed
pay of what the 30 lowest paid Employees. One Court per region and one
Appeals Court and 1 Supreme Court that's only duty is to make sure Laws
conform to the Constiutional test.

That didn't work when we occupied Haiti from 1915 to 1934. What makes
you think it would work now?

On Sun, 17 Jan 2010 20:07:12 -0700, Canuck57
wrote:

On 17/01/2010 6:04 PM, bpuharic wrote:
On Sun, 17 Jan 2010 17:43:38 -0700,


uh no. the idea was the inability of a thugh from the GOP to
understand that 100,000 people are dead

If people, the UN or the dems, or the GOP cared, they would have been
spending some serious time with Haiti 15 to 25 years ago in the baby
boom years over populated the area. Chosing to ignore the issue, it
became a diseased over populated island of drugs, gangs, rape, theft,
open disobedience, cop killing, etc. as a routine way of life for over
1/2 of the citizens alive since they were born!

Now we care? Bull****. This is about politicans PR and spending ont he
perception they care. In 6 months they will again ship drugs through
Haiti like nothing happened. More babies born into disease, starvation
and illiteracy. Pick a gang leader and make him presidente.

hard to disagree here. jeffrey sachs, in the NY times, has a good
essay on what's needed to reform haiti.

we'll see if anyone's listening

On Sun, 17 Jan 2010 20:48:58 -0700, Canuck57
wrote:

On 17/01/2010 6:28 PM, lil abner wrote:
bpuharic wrote:
Illegal immigrants from Haiti have no reason to fear deportation, but
if they are deported, Haiti is in great need of relief workers, and
many of them could be a big help to their fellow Haitians," -
Congressman Steve King (R-IA).
It is probably better to spend money rescuing Haiti than to bring them
here longterm or permanent residents.
The problem I see is finding Haitians to develop the Haitian economy.
They have a lot of resources but they have not moved beyond a third
world economy.
I believe it is because there are too many Haitians for their easily
utilized resource.
They have not had any effective leadership.
It seems from any report over the decades that small gangs etc run the
country.
I don't see how we can show these folks how to take care, of themselves.
It is going to take outside Leadership and economic enterprise.
It's a lot closer to Haiti than to China.

This is a humanitarian disaster that started decades ago. This we agree.

Assuming 1/2 the land is suitable for human habitation which may be
wildly optimistic, as you can't park your home on the waters edge
litterally, the population density is about 700 per sq. kilometer. Or
about 1100 people per square mile. The land is stripped for what is
useable and food is imported as there is no where to grow what they need
for self sufficiency.

With that level of over population, not really much one can do for the
economy either. Building earth quake resistant structures takes space,
100 square feet per family isn't going to do. And who pays? Will they
work or are they a herd of squaters?

Not sure there is any other choice. But persents a problem as most of
the population, 80% have below average skills in basic reading, have
never known a life without gang rule, servatude and bound to be a
problem in the NA society.

But forced birth control is in order here, it is insane to let them
breed children into desperation, starvation, disease, illiteracy...not
humane at all and absolutely irresponsible. They need a heavy handed
benevolant dictator that will have to do some nasty stuff to bring this
part of the world into the 21st century. Trouble is there are not that
many good dictators.

Nasty problem.

About 80% of the Haitian population are Roman Catholics. Until the RC
church changes it's position on artificial birth control,
overpopulation will be a huge problem. Haiti is one example of the
extreme problems caused by the Chuch's position on birth control.
--
John H

"If you think healthcare is expensive now, wait until it's free!"
--Anonymous

John H wrote:
On Sun, 17 Jan 2010 20:48:58 -0700, Canuck57
wrote:

On 17/01/2010 6:28 PM, lil abner wrote:
bpuharic wrote:
Illegal immigrants from Haiti have no reason to fear deportation, but
if they are deported, Haiti is in great need of relief workers, and
many of them could be a big help to their fellow Haitians," -
Congressman Steve King (R-IA).
It is probably better to spend money rescuing Haiti than to bring them
here longterm or permanent residents.
The problem I see is finding Haitians to develop the Haitian economy.
They have a lot of resources but they have not moved beyond a third
world economy.
I believe it is because there are too many Haitians for their easily
utilized resource.
They have not had any effective leadership.
It seems from any report over the decades that small gangs etc run the
country.
I don't see how we can show these folks how to take care, of themselves.
It is going to take outside Leadership and economic enterprise.
It's a lot closer to Haiti than to China.
This is a humanitarian disaster that started decades ago. This we agree.

Assuming 1/2 the land is suitable for human habitation which may be
wildly optimistic, as you can't park your home on the waters edge
litterally, the population density is about 700 per sq. kilometer. Or
about 1100 people per square mile. The land is stripped for what is
useable and food is imported as there is no where to grow what they need
for self sufficiency.

With that level of over population, not really much one can do for the
economy either. Building earth quake resistant structures takes space,
100 square feet per family isn't going to do. And who pays? Will they
work or are they a herd of squaters?

Not sure there is any other choice. But persents a problem as most of
the population, 80% have below average skills in basic reading, have
never known a life without gang rule, servatude and bound to be a
problem in the NA society.

But forced birth control is in order here, it is insane to let them
breed children into desperation, starvation, disease, illiteracy...not
humane at all and absolutely irresponsible. They need a heavy handed
benevolant dictator that will have to do some nasty stuff to bring this
part of the world into the 21st century. Trouble is there are not that
many good dictators.

Nasty problem.

About 80% of the Haitian population are Roman Catholics. Until the RC
church changes it's position on artificial birth control,
overpopulation will be a huge problem. Haiti is one example of the
extreme problems caused by the Chuch's position on birth control.
--
John H


Aren't you RC? What are you doing to get your church to change its
policy on this issue?

I'll bet...nothing.

On 17/01/2010 11:11 PM, lil abner wrote:
Canuck57 wrote:
On 17/01/2010 6:28 PM, lil abner wrote:
bpuharic wrote:
Illegal immigrants from Haiti have no reason to fear deportation, but
if they are deported, Haiti is in great need of relief workers, and
many of them could be a big help to their fellow Haitians," -
Congressman Steve King (R-IA).
It is probably better to spend money rescuing Haiti than to bring them
here longterm or permanent residents.
The problem I see is finding Haitians to develop the Haitian economy.
They have a lot of resources but they have not moved beyond a third
world economy.
I believe it is because there are too many Haitians for their easily
utilized resource.
They have not had any effective leadership.
It seems from any report over the decades that small gangs etc run the
country.
I don't see how we can show these folks how to take care, of themselves.
It is going to take outside Leadership and economic enterprise.
It's a lot closer to Haiti than to China.

This is a humanitarian disaster that started decades ago. This we agree.

Assuming 1/2 the land is suitable for human habitation which may be
wildly optimistic, as you can't park your home on the waters edge
litterally, the population density is about 700 per sq. kilometer. Or
about 1100 people per square mile. The land is stripped for what is
useable and food is imported as there is no where to grow what they
need for self sufficiency.

With that level of over population, not really much one can do for the
economy either. Building earth quake resistant structures takes space,
100 square feet per family isn't going to do. And who pays? Will they
work or are they a herd of squaters?

Not sure there is any other choice. But persents a problem as most of
the population, 80% have below average skills in basic reading, have
never known a life without gang rule, servatude and bound to be a
problem in the NA society.

But forced birth control is in order here, it is insane to let them
breed children into desperation, starvation, disease, illiteracy...not
humane at all and absolutely irresponsible. They need a heavy handed
T
benevolant dictator that will have to do some nasty stuff to bring
this part of the world into the 21st century. Trouble is there are not
that many good dictators.

Nasty problem.
Put Administration of the Island under US Army School of the Americas.
Train and pay a Police Force that is over square, of the problem.
The State Department needs to start encouraging Companies to build
production there under US or Army Supervision.
Wages can be 4 dollars an hour and build them an economy. Do not let
Banks get hold of the Island. They will bleed half or more of whatever
is invested. Let some Captain run the Island Financial system Keep all
Banking community and national and keep International Banking funds out
of it. t will take a decade or more realistically 2 decades to get
Haitian producing enough jobs to sustain the economy. A strong US
Policing presence will be necessary for at least 3 decades. By that time
Schools should be turning out People capable of learning and reasonable
thinking with an allegiance to God and Country. School should be 10
years with mandatory follow on of 4 years of co ledge, and trade schools
paid for by corporate taxes Keep the Multiculturalism wreckers out. Laws
of moral design and like America was constructed. One term of 6 years
per appointed Senator. 1 term of 4 years per regional Representative.
One Term for a President.
One vital Law should be that Board members of public corporations cannot
exceed pay of what the 30 lowest paid Employees.
One Court per region and one Appeals Court and 1 Supreme Court that's
only duty is to make sure Laws conform to the Constiutional test.

And for those that don't complay with open disobedience? I might
suggest a steel jacket...as in round. Whomever takes this on has to be
prepared to use lethal force.