Delicious...
 

On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 10:27:48 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 23:28:38 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
...
On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 13:16:10 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
om...
On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 10:59:23 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:



I had to flush The Freak and Looney Tunes also.
Too bad...I had hoped we could beat some sense into them, but they've
been
taken over by the dark side.
I stay on the Lt Colonels case because he's the one guy who should
know
better.... unless they sell commissions in the US Army these days.


Hi Don.

Are you ready to stop with the immature name-calling and personal
insults yet?

It would improve the atmosphere, no?

I'm watching your lead..Lt Colonel.


Don, it's nice of you to call me that, but I'm no longer entitled to
that. Now it would be LTC Ret.

It's really not fair to the LTC's doing the work, if you know what I
mean.

When I refer to your rank of Lt Colonel....I mean in the Dope Army.


Wow, Don.

I guess you're just way too smart for me. So keep up with your
attempted insults and your name-calling. Maybe one day Harry, who
doesn't even answer most of your stuff any more, will adopt you. Then
you'll have an 'official' father figure.

Go for it.

Too bad the Army didn't provide you with one. It might have made a
difference in your outlook.


Don, I didn't need one.

But I can understand why you're still looking for one.

Delicious...
 

John H. wrote:
On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 10:27:48 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:

"John H." wrote in message
...
On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 23:28:38 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:

"John H." wrote in message
...
On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 13:16:10 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:

"John H." wrote in message
...
On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 10:59:23 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:



I had to flush The Freak and Looney Tunes also.
Too bad...I had hoped we could beat some sense into them, but they've
been
taken over by the dark side.
I stay on the Lt Colonels case because he's the one guy who should
know
better.... unless they sell commissions in the US Army these days.

Hi Don.

Are you ready to stop with the immature name-calling and personal
insults yet?

It would improve the atmosphere, no?
I'm watching your lead..Lt Colonel.

Don, it's nice of you to call me that, but I'm no longer entitled to
that. Now it would be LTC Ret.

It's really not fair to the LTC's doing the work, if you know what I
mean.
When I refer to your rank of Lt Colonel....I mean in the Dope Army.

Wow, Don.

I guess you're just way too smart for me. So keep up with your
attempted insults and your name-calling. Maybe one day Harry, who
doesn't even answer most of your stuff any more, will adopt you. Then
you'll have an 'official' father figure.

Go for it.
Too bad the Army didn't provide you with one. It might have made a
difference in your outlook.


Don, I didn't need one.

But I can understand why you're still looking for one.

If Donnie's kid had a father figure, he might have turned out differently.

Delicious...
 

"Jim" wrote in message
...
John H. wrote:
On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 10:27:48 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:

"John H." wrote in message
...
On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 23:28:38 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:

"John H." wrote in message
...
On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 13:16:10 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:

"John H." wrote in message
...
On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 10:59:23 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:



I had to flush The Freak and Looney Tunes also.
Too bad...I had hoped we could beat some sense into them, but
they've
been
taken over by the dark side.
I stay on the Lt Colonels case because he's the one guy who should
know
better.... unless they sell commissions in the US Army these days.

Hi Don.

Are you ready to stop with the immature name-calling and personal
insults yet?

It would improve the atmosphere, no?
I'm watching your lead..Lt Colonel.

Don, it's nice of you to call me that, but I'm no longer entitled to
that. Now it would be LTC Ret.

It's really not fair to the LTC's doing the work, if you know what I
mean.
When I refer to your rank of Lt Colonel....I mean in the Dope Army.

Wow, Don.

I guess you're just way too smart for me. So keep up with your
attempted insults and your name-calling. Maybe one day Harry, who
doesn't even answer most of your stuff any more, will adopt you. Then
you'll have an 'official' father figure.

Go for it.
Too bad the Army didn't provide you with one. It might have made a
difference in your outlook.

Don, I didn't need one.

But I can understand why you're still looking for one.

If Donnie's kid had a father figure, he might have turned out differently.

Back into the septic tank...just in time for Sunday dinner...

Delicious...
 

On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 11:44:34 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:


"Jim" wrote in message
. ..
John H. wrote:
On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 10:27:48 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:

"John H." wrote in message
...
On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 23:28:38 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:

"John H." wrote in message
...
On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 13:16:10 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:

"John H." wrote in message
...
On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 10:59:23 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:



I had to flush The Freak and Looney Tunes also.
Too bad...I had hoped we could beat some sense into them, but
they've
been
taken over by the dark side.
I stay on the Lt Colonels case because he's the one guy who should
know
better.... unless they sell commissions in the US Army these days.

Hi Don.

Are you ready to stop with the immature name-calling and personal
insults yet?

It would improve the atmosphere, no?
I'm watching your lead..Lt Colonel.

Don, it's nice of you to call me that, but I'm no longer entitled to
that. Now it would be LTC Ret.

It's really not fair to the LTC's doing the work, if you know what I
mean.
When I refer to your rank of Lt Colonel....I mean in the Dope Army.

Wow, Don.

I guess you're just way too smart for me. So keep up with your
attempted insults and your name-calling. Maybe one day Harry, who
doesn't even answer most of your stuff any more, will adopt you. Then
you'll have an 'official' father figure.

Go for it.
Too bad the Army didn't provide you with one. It might have made a
difference in your outlook.

Don, I didn't need one.

But I can understand why you're still looking for one.

If Donnie's kid had a father figure, he might have turned out differently.

Back into the septic tank...just in time for Sunday dinner...


Why?

Go look at your last fifty posts. See which of those your son would be
proud of.

Do me a favor, killfile me also. Just stop playing 'Harry' and
responding to all the posts from those you've KF'd.

Delicious...
 

"John H." wrote in message
...
snip usual drivel.........
Do me a favor, killfile me also. Just stop playing 'Harry' and
responding to all the posts from those you've KF'd.


I'll keep working to rehabilitate you as long as I'm in this newsgroup.
If nothing else...to keep you from being an embarrassment to all retired
military officers.
...and as far as responding to those in my septic tank...... only indirectly
if I see their drivel courtesy of a 3rd party poster.
If you can't figure that out, I'll give you the hitchhikers guide to how it
all works.

Delicious...
 

On 10/25/09 10:58 AM, Don White wrote:
"John wrote in message
...
snip usual drivel.........
Do me a favor, killfile me also. Just stop playing 'Harry' and
responding to all the posts from those you've KF'd.


I'll keep working to rehabilitate you as long as I'm in this newsgroup.
If nothing else...to keep you from being an embarrassment to all retired
military officers.
..and as far as responding to those in my septic tank...... only indirectly
if I see their drivel courtesy of a 3rd party poster.
If you can't figure that out, I'll give you the hitchhikers guide to how it
all works.




you cannot rehab a turd like herring.

Delicious...
 

On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 23:37:00 -0700, jps wrote:

On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 01:57:12 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 22:21:25 -0700, jps wrote:

Perhaps, that's certainly a big number. Something like 70% of docs want a
public option or single payer. They're just as sick of the paperwork as
everyone else.

Don't talk to them about Medicare. The docs I know as friends think
It's just as bad as dealing with the insurance companies.


I have been away from that part long enough not to know what is going
on now but my ex (that I am still on speaking terms with) was a
hospital administrator for most of her life and she says the same
thing. Medicare is very hard to deal with and very much "slow pay" for
the provider.
I wonder how that gets padded on to your bill. It is certainly a cost
to the provider and all costs are passed on one way or another.

She is now working at the DC Medical society. I will talk to her and
get their spin.
She is also the former commander of one of the DC area USCGA
flotillas.

I'm sure that's true.

I know there's a pile of money available through the stimulus program
to develop new methods of care delivery and processing of data.

There's got to be some efficiencies to be realized by applying best
practices from other industries.

We have a HMO in Seattle that's been around forever. Used to be
feared as not willing to spend on patients. It's turned out to be one
of the most efficient, effective, patient-lauded organizations in the
country. It's held out as a model and may well be the prototype for
better run organizations delivering more effective, reasonably priced
care.

That's all ass-backwards. There are well-proven "prototypes" all over
the civilized world that deliver better health care at much less cost
- for all.
And they are all virtual single payer, non-profit systems.
The problem is viewing health care as a business.
It's a calling; it's an occupation. You can make a good living.
But it's not a business.
All we're doing with it here is hampering real business.
You know, like making products, building things, repairing things,
providing non-health related services.
And I don't mean Wall Street financial paper con games.
Until that's understood by all, it's going to be a f**king mess and
just get worse.
It's really disappointing that the for profit insurance companies and
health care companies and their political cash-gathering cronies have
pulled the wool over the eyes of so many Americans.
Virtually every other modern country is beating our ass.
BTW, here's some perspective.
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com...ealth-care.php

and

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezr...in_health.html

Note from the above link about Medicare admin costs,
"Nor does it count most of Medicare's billing, which is outsourced --
and this might surprise people -- to private insurers like Blue Cross
Blue Shield and listed under vendor services rather than program
administration."

Wasn't aware of that.
So all the bitching about Medicare billing can as easily be laid off
on the private insurance industry by those who want to.
And now you know that the private health insurance companies are also
sucking blood from Medicare, which is covered with the private ticks.
Reminds me that the Army can't even cook for itself.
Have to hire Haliburton to do that. $150k slop cooks.
That's besides the backwoods $150k "electricians" they hire to zap
our boys in their showers.
Also brings to mind some of what I read about the work done after
Katrina.
$100k of taxpayer money to the connected general contractor to do the
work.
He gives $80k to the connected sub-contractor to do the work.
Sub gives $60k to the connected sub-sub-contractor to do the work.
Sub-sub pays out $40k in min wages to illegals for a half-assed job.
Multiply it all many times.
The worst of government and free enterprise all wrapped up in one big
ball. Corruption everywhere, and a total cluster****.
I'm ashamed of the leadership in this country.
And I don't see no change yet. Geithner. Summers. Goldman-Sachs.
Just to name a few.
The usual suspects. And business as usual.
If this health care bill doesn't have a strong public option, all hell
is going to break loose for the Dems. Just my guess.
Now, on the bright side, I'll continue to look into moving to Florida,
getting a boat, and do some fishing.

--Vic

Delicious...
 

On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 10:27:23 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 23:37:00 -0700, jps wrote:

On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 01:57:12 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 22:21:25 -0700, jps wrote:

Perhaps, that's certainly a big number. Something like 70% of docs want a
public option or single payer. They're just as sick of the paperwork as
everyone else.

Don't talk to them about Medicare. The docs I know as friends think
It's just as bad as dealing with the insurance companies.


I have been away from that part long enough not to know what is going
on now but my ex (that I am still on speaking terms with) was a
hospital administrator for most of her life and she says the same
thing. Medicare is very hard to deal with and very much "slow pay" for
the provider.
I wonder how that gets padded on to your bill. It is certainly a cost
to the provider and all costs are passed on one way or another.

She is now working at the DC Medical society. I will talk to her and
get their spin.
She is also the former commander of one of the DC area USCGA
flotillas.

I'm sure that's true.

I know there's a pile of money available through the stimulus program
to develop new methods of care delivery and processing of data.

There's got to be some efficiencies to be realized by applying best
practices from other industries.

We have a HMO in Seattle that's been around forever. Used to be
feared as not willing to spend on patients. It's turned out to be one
of the most efficient, effective, patient-lauded organizations in the
country. It's held out as a model and may well be the prototype for
better run organizations delivering more effective, reasonably priced
care.

That's all ass-backwards. There are well-proven "prototypes" all over
the civilized world that deliver better health care at much less cost
- for all.

They're not in the US from what I can tell.

And they are all virtual single payer, non-profit systems.
The problem is viewing health care as a business.

Every organization that uses money to exist can benefit from
efficiencies found in business. Non-profits do it all the time.

It's a calling; it's an occupation. You can make a good living.
But it's not a business.

Doctors and nurses and administrators all have to pay their bills. The
interest in making money has thwarted the "calling." They know they
can make oodles more money by specialiizing. There are so few GPs
coming out of school it's a disaster. No one wants to go through
school, residency to make a ****ty living. Might as well be a
teacher. :)

All we're doing with it here is hampering real business.
You know, like making products, building things, repairing things,
providing non-health related services.

Agreed.

And I don't mean Wall Street financial paper con games.
Until that's understood by all, it's going to be a f**king mess and
just get worse.
It's really disappointing that the for profit insurance companies and
health care companies and their political cash-gathering cronies have
pulled the wool over the eyes of so many Americans.
Virtually every other modern country is beating our ass.
BTW, here's some perspective.
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com...ealth-care.php

and

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezr...in_health.html

Note from the above link about Medicare admin costs,
"Nor does it count most of Medicare's billing, which is outsourced --
and this might surprise people -- to private insurers like Blue Cross
Blue Shield and listed under vendor services rather than program
administration."

Wasn't aware of that.
So all the bitching about Medicare billing can as easily be laid off
on the private insurance industry by those who want to.

It still represents overhead and a cost of providing care. That's why
the gov't is offering stimulus money to those who can devise systems
that do it more efficiently.

And now you know that the private health insurance companies are also
sucking blood from Medicare, which is covered with the private ticks.
Reminds me that the Army can't even cook for itself.
Have to hire Haliburton to do that. $150k slop cooks.
That's besides the backwoods $150k "electricians" they hire to zap
our boys in their showers.
Also brings to mind some of what I read about the work done after
Katrina.
$100k of taxpayer money to the connected general contractor to do the
work.
He gives $80k to the connected sub-contractor to do the work.
Sub gives $60k to the connected sub-sub-contractor to do the work.
Sub-sub pays out $40k in min wages to illegals for a half-assed job.
Multiply it all many times.
The worst of government and free enterprise all wrapped up in one big
ball. Corruption everywhere, and a total cluster****.
I'm ashamed of the leadership in this country.
And I don't see no change yet. Geithner. Summers. Goldman-Sachs.
Just to name a few.
The usual suspects. And business as usual.
If this health care bill doesn't have a strong public option, all hell
is going to break loose for the Dems. Just my guess.
Now, on the bright side, I'll continue to look into moving to Florida,
getting a boat, and do some fishing.

--Vic

I understand your frustration. I own a business that's saddled with
the cost of providing health care coverage. It's been going up
between 10 and 15%/year for the last ten years.

I'm looking at going to that HMO I cited as a way to keep our costs at
a level where we can still manage to provide the benefit. It's an
extraordinary % of overhead. I brought it up six years ago at a
dinner with a local state Rep. They were aware but displayed a tin
ear.

Delicious...
 

On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 09:51:03 -0700, jps wrote:



They're not in the US from what I can tell.

Of course not. That's why you're looking in the wrong place.
If you try to reinvent a wheel using U.S. models, it will be square.

And they are all virtual single payer, non-profit systems.
The problem is viewing health care as a business.

Every organization that uses money to exist can benefit from
efficiencies found in business. Non-profits do it all the time.

Should have said for profit business. Doesn't work.
That's why we're here, and the rest of the modern world covers
everybody, with much better results and much less cost.
That cat is out of the bag.

It's a calling; it's an occupation. You can make a good living.
But it's not a business.

Doctors and nurses and administrators all have to pay their bills. The
interest in making money has thwarted the "calling." They know they
can make oodles more money by specialiizing. There are so few GPs
coming out of school it's a disaster. No one wants to go through
school, residency to make a ****ty living. Might as well be a
teacher. :)

I don't see docs driving Chevys. You don't really think docs make a
****ty living, do you?
http://www.studentdoc.com/family-practice-salary.html

Average of $204k for GP's.
What's that, 98th percentile or thereabouts?


Wasn't aware of that.
So all the bitching about Medicare billing can as easily be laid off
on the private insurance industry by those who want to.

It still represents overhead and a cost of providing care. That's why
the gov't is offering stimulus money to those who can devise systems
that do it more efficiently.

There's always overhead. My point was that Medicare billing is mostly
done by the private sector.
More taxpayer funded socialism to the for-profit private sector.

I understand your frustration. I own a business that's saddled with
the cost of providing health care coverage. It's been going up
between 10 and 15%/year for the last ten years.

Don't worry about me, I handle frustration well, and can afford the
insurance. I don't anticipate any problems, though it's possible.
It's your business that's getting ****ed.

--Vic

Delicious...
 

"Bill McKee" wrote in message
...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Jim" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
m...
"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Tosk" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
"Tosk" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 19:51:29 -0400, Tosk wrote:


After all, how can a for profit org compete with a public
funded not for profit?
Huh? I thought "privatization" was the cost cutting mantra of
the
Right. You know, how a lean mean corporation was more
efficient than a
bloated government agency. So, does this mean that if we
eliminate
private health insurance companies, and go with a single payer
public
option, our health cost would go down? Damn, you're turning
into a
Liberal.
Not really, look at the success record of govt "not for profit"
organizations. I would rather pay for something that works, than
pay
double for something that doesn't.
Yup. Medicare and the VA don't work. Bummer.
Well, I guess it depends on who is in office at the time. When it
was
Bush they sure didn't, that is if you listen to the chattering
class.
Now miraculously a 10% unemployment rate is a recovery...

You really need to review the facts about the VA, for example,
before you make statements like this. Check out the person who's in
charge of the VA.

There is a technical recovery in process. Jobs are still a problem
and will continue to be for quite a while. What's your point?

--
Nom=de=Plume

Where is the recovery? The lead in the Dow rise is financials.
And they are going up because of the huge amounts of money the Fed
is tossing at them. The job outlook is bad, the retail outlook is
bad, as those 20%+ without a job are not spending. The housing
sales increase, but the price decreased, and the $8k gift from the
Fed just accelerated the purchases and seems as if they are looking
at $500 million if fraud with the program. Look for the Dow to pull
back 10-15% shortly. Put stops on your stocks.

Look it up. It's been all over the news. So far, you haven't said
anything revealing about the recovery or lack thereof.

The recovery hasn't started yet. And it won't until REAL jobs are
created and REAL workers have money to spend on REAL goods and
services, which of course will be provided by REAL people doing REAL
work. The way your party is handling the situation is UNREAL. You
should be ashamed of yourself for supporting The king and his court in
their underhanded activities.


You should be ashamed of your intellectual dishonestly.

http://www.recovery.gov


--
Nom=de=Plume


Actually it is you with the intellectual dishonesty. The government
spent tons of money in the wrong place for one thing. Sent it to their
cronies on Wall Street. Want a better recovery, put 50% of that money
spent in to SBA loans. And not spend the other 50%. Let Goldmansackus
and the other "investment" banks fail. The recovery act has not created
jobs. Other than a few paving and infrastucture jobs that needed to be
done anyway. When that paving job is done. Where is the next job for
the worker. Govenment does not creat wealth by borrowing and spending.

Except that this would have caused an amazing about of pain for average
people. This is the classic Milton Freedman, Chicago School of Economics
philosophy that sounds really good but doesn't work, as shown by various
examples in recent decades.

While the gov't doesn't create wealth by borrowing and spending, it does
create jobs, the perfect example being just prior to WW2. The
unemployment rate was something like 25%. The FDR got things going and
prior to WW2, it was down to 10%. Not perfect, but it was in the right
direction. Then the gov't spent an insane amount of money to fund the
war. What followed was one of the best growth periods in a long time.

The jobless rate is currently very bad, but the rate of losses per month
is headed in the right direction. The absolute percentage will likely
keep rising over the next year or so, but businesses are starting to
hire, and this trend should continue. Thus, the technical recession is
over, according to most economists, but that doesn't mean it feels good
right now.

Sorry if that bursts your bubble.

--
Nom=de=Plume


FDR never got the unemployment below 20% until the war. Only reason the
unemployment was starting to fall is we were making war materials for the
British.



Nope... That's a history rewrite..

It fell to just under 15% from a high of about 25% (or higher, depending on
the sector of course).

There were some anomalies in how unemployment rates were counted, and by
some estimates it was closer to 10%.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...020801757.html


--
Nom=de=Plume